Game of Thrones - I give up

[Altorin]

I've said it before in this very thread, but Robb was completely foolish. When Theon attacked Winterfell, he should have fallen back - let the forest be their guard, kill any southerner who makes the mistake of trying to enter the north. Instead, he leaves the protection of his own castle to his bannermen. No amount of warring will bring Ned back, and they could have been much more successful at seceding if they used their strengths and didn't try bringing the fight to the Lannisters.. The plan to sack Casterly Rock was particularly insane, considering Robb's description of the plan basically was for one final push to cut at the throat of the Lannister pride.

The fact that Cate even went along with it in the first place is further proof she should have been NOWHERE near the tactical table.

And that doesn't even consider the worst offenses of the brain he does, namely forsaking the contract with Frey and THEN returning to his home to ask a favor - men to send into a losing battle on Casterly Rock.

Killing Robb Stark was really the only smart thing to do. You can call it Lannister treachery, and you can call it brutal or cruel, but he was extremely foolish and maybe in those last few moments, he understood - he should have just gone back to Winterfell. Instead, he got his entire hall killed. Maybe he should have just taken the time to learn the lesson of the Rains of Castamere - Namely don't fuck with the Lannisters unless you're willing to lose your whole castle and all of its inhabitants. And don't let it be a matter of pride, because the Lannisters win that battle every single time. Make it be about protecting your hall and the halls of your bannermen. Robb Stark sucked horribly at that. He was young, so it might be forgivable, but he got everyone killed, everyone in Winterfell, and all of his Bannermen. Good Job, "Hero".

 

[HellbirdIV]

Yeah, I hate it when entertainment invokes an emotional response.

When the emotional response is the big "Ugh, really?" of disappointment and disinterest like the way I feel whenever I watch a "big scene" from GoT (I took a peek at the 'Red Wedding' and sure enough, "GRIMDARK IS DRAMA!!!" oozed off the screen and I remembered why I don't actually bother watching the show).

 

[Suave Charlie]

Yeah, I hate it when entertainment invokes an emotional response.

When the emotional response is the big "Ugh, really?" of disappointment and disinterest like the way I feel whenever I watch a "big scene" from GoT (I took a peek at the 'Red Wedding' and sure enough, "GRIMDARK IS DRAMA!!!" oozed off the screen and I remembered why I don't actually bother watching the show).

Different strokes then, I thought they did it alright. I prefer the book's version where there's a tad more conspiracy behind it but even then Robb's storyline was the most dull of them so it was a welcome change.

 

[Suave Charlie]

Well given that Martin has made no comment about his status I'd say that the odds of survival are pretty good. Plus his parentage hasn't explained yet which is something that's been hinted at little too much for me to think that Martin's going to ignore that and have him killed before its revealed. Then again it wouldn't be the first time Martin's pulled the rug out from under us.

Spoiler

I'm going with the theory that he will be dead but then revived (somehow, probably magic) so that technically his watch will have ended so he can get out of being Lord Commander and take sides in the wars. Also I think the theory about his parents is too obvious now, everyone who knows even a couple fan theories wouldn't be surprised by that revelation

 

[saruman31]

Lol what? Also, the series is far from over. Who knows what`s at the end of the tunnel.

 

[Winterbird]

To stop reading/watching after the Red Wedding is possibly the dumbest thing you can do. You miss out on so many great moments later.

 

[Seydaman]

I actually really enjoy such emotionally intense stories. That moment was a genuine WHAAATTT?

Spoiler

And spurred me forward, I'd call it a high point, story wise that is.

My suggestion to the OP:

Spoiler

 

[AkatsukiLeader13]

Spoiler

Spoiler: Actually the funny thing is...

If you've read the latest book then Tyrion's bit with Daenerys may actually turn about to be true in the end.

 

[Henrik Knudsen]

I like how people complain about 1 pregnant woman getting a relatively quick death all while we had what, 3 or 4 episodes with gratuitous torture on screen. That revolted me greatly and I lost much interest after that.

 

[AkatsukiLeader13]

I like how people complain about 1 pregnant woman getting a relatively quick death all while we had what, 3 or 4 episodes with gratuitous torture on screen. That revolted me greatly and I lost much interest after that.

That's because the guy getting tortured betrayed the good guys. People don't care if it's a bad guy suffering or just random, nameless people but if it's a good guy experiencing something terrible people scream. Book 1/Season 1 Daenerys, a teenage girl is basically sold by her brother to another man and raped by her husband Drogo and people start complaining about it, ignoring the historical context of the whole situation. Drogo leads his men against a village, his men merciless slaughter innocent people, enslave them, gangrape women and no one says a word about how bad that is.

The whole thing can be summed by the first fifteen seconds of this...


And it's actually the same thing with Red Wedding, it's the deaths of Robb, his wife and his mother they're reacting to with such strong feelings. Had the three of them escaped but all the rest of the Stark men killed as they were people wouldn't be upset. It's because they were three of the good guys were betrayed and brutally murdered that people are upset.

 

[Amir Kondori]

I always find this outlook amusing. Its not big deal, and I never got into the show myself, but it seems to say something about you, perhaps positive, perhaps negative, that you can't deal with bleak or dark fiction.

 

[Henrik Knudsen]

CUT CUT CUT CUTTING YOUR HAIR

Which is all that is wrong with this world, it's alright if it is the bad (or perceived bad) guys who get brutally maimed. *cough*Guantanamo*cough* - Anyway that sentiment is unrelated to the topic at hand.

I will just say yes; Theon deserves some kind of punishment, maybe even Capital punishment which I don't agree on either, but as you mentioned "historical" context, but no one deserves torture.

The Starks in question had relatively quick deaths, was over rather fast and we got a slightly fewer storylines to follow. I already thought it was getting bad in season 3 (haven't read the books) so was surprised how many separate storylines you had to follow and it became really confusing. Maybe it is easier in the books where things are not "cut out" for the 10 hour format for a season.

 

[lucky_sharm]

Yeah, I hate it when entertainment invokes an emotional response.

When the emotional response is the big "Ugh, really?" of disappointment and disinterest like the way I feel whenever I watch a "big scene" from GoT (I took a peek at the 'Red Wedding' and sure enough, "GRIMDARK IS DRAMA!!!" oozed off the screen and I remembered why I don't actually bother watching the show).

Did you expect any less when you watch an episode without knowledge of previous events or any real interest in the ongoing plot? People are awfully quick to dismiss stories as "grimdark" when events occur beyond their understanding (not that all the clues weren't there to begin with).

 

[HellbirdIV]

Did you expect any less when you watch an episode without knowledge of previous events or any real interest in the ongoing plot? People are awfully quick to dismiss stories as "grimdark" when events occur beyond their understanding

Nice strawman defense. I don't care about the story - not even a little. What bugs me is the content and how it's framed and shot for Maximum Grimdark, despite the fact it makes very little actual logical sense.

 

[AkatsukiLeader13]

I will just say yes; Theon deserves some kind of punishment, maybe even Capital punishment which I don't agree on either, but as you mentioned "historical" context, but no one deserves torture.

The Starks in question had relatively quick deaths, was over rather fast and we got a slightly fewer storylines to follow. I already thought it was getting bad in season 3 (haven't read the books) so was surprised how many separate storylines you had to follow and it became really confusing. Maybe it is easier in the books where things are not "cut out" for the 10 hour format for a season.

Yes of that is bad but like I said you have to keep in context the setting and the time period that, to varying degrees, is based off of, the Middle Ages. In that time it was okay to wed teenage girls to older men, it was okay to torture prisoners, especially if they committed serious crimes, it's okay to enslave other men and sell them and all other manner of things that we today know is wrong. That's what you have to keep in mind about the Game of Thrones setting and that's what I meant historical context.

As for fewer storylines... well it really only ended Robb's. And while we will lose some more major characters in season 4, the latter half of book 3, it won't really cut back on the number of storylines in different places simply because they aren't POV characters in the novels. The three most interesting Stark children, Jon, Bran and Arya still have their separate stories to tell, as do Jamie, Cersei, Tyrion, Sansa and Daenerys. And those are just the major ones. Other characters are going to die next season while others are rising to prominence, a few that are with other characters are going to be leaving off on their own separate paths. So there really isn't going to be much in the way of reducing the myriad of storylines.

 

[Ishal]

I felt somewhat sad for what happened at red wedding, and to eddard stark before that in king's landing, but at the end of the day, both Robb and Ned were asking for it.

Real world does not magically bend to your way of moral thinking, you get crushed like an ant if you think your moral shield of +10 protection against true evil will help you.

While the house Stark's both men were real badasses in combat and in character, reason why I mourn them, they were in a sore need of a reality check. Robb was really a poor king to let his emotions sway him as much as they did. If you don't have the stomach for war and political scheming, he should have never have come south of the twins.

After all the years of watching morally righteous characters in media give the middle finger to all reason and sense, and living to tell the tale afterward, I am truly grateful for Martin for finally giving something more in line with the real world.

THIS. SO MUCH THIS.

My favorite scene in the red wedding was with Catelyn

Spoiler

She says... "On my honor as a Stark... on my honor as a Tully let my son go and we will forget this" What? What?!?! WHAT?!?!?!?! WHAT?!?!?!?! What honor? Walder even says it. He reminds her that Rob swore an oath and broke it in his very castle.

This is something that people tend to overlook when they talk about the Starks. When they hold themselves as an honorable house, and tout it as much as the Starks do... THAT IS ALL THEY ARE. The minute Rob broke his oath, as king of the north he fucked everything. There is no honor, not anymore. That one pillar holding up his house crumbles beneath him and they pay the price. They value honor above all else, that means honor is valued over reason... doesn't it? They got what was coming.

 

[Mr F.]

Did you expect any less when you watch an episode without knowledge of previous events or any real interest in the ongoing plot? People are awfully quick to dismiss stories as "grimdark" when events occur beyond their understanding

Nice strawman defense. I don't care about the story - not even a little. What bugs me is the content and how it's framed and shot for Maximum Grimdark, despite the fact it makes very little actual logical sense.

Wat?

Its a dark story, but then again it is a dark time period. Power was arbitrary, sovereign power does that. Bar the actual magic, I cannot really question the logic.

Every single important member of a family that was leading a rebellion was in the same place at the same time. So, due to the scheming nature of one of the bannermen, who was sick of fighting a loosing war and wanted more power, they were slaughtered in a way which was brutal, going against the laws of hearth and safety and the rest. That is the Red Wedding, it is logical. People want power, they kill people who try and prevent them gaining power. Of course the story is dark, the last king was a drunken fool, the king before that was a maniac and the current king is a slightly mad 14 year old with unlimited power!

I really cannot see the logical failings there. Stories like LoTR, yeah, I can see the logical bullshit (Why not fly? Why do the heroes magically avoid all arrows at all times? Why has technology stagnated? etc). But AGOT is clever, it is logical and if you follow it closely, it is... slightly predictable.

Protip mate: Just because you do not like something does not mean you have to insult it. I do not like the Legend of Zelda games, therefore I have not (Or have barely) played them and cannot form an opinion on them being shit.

If you do not like AGOT, that is fine. Plenty don't, for whatever reasons. But if you are ignorant of it, due to not liking it, try and avoid hating on it. Just accept you don't like it and other people do.

It is not like 40K, it is not just pure "In the Grimdark of the Grimdark, things are Grimdark." The series has its moments of beauty, of honour and decency. Its just honour and decency does not keep you alive when plot armour has been removed.

 

[MammothBlade]

Damn, I hate it when people just give up because something is too dark, perhaps OP didn't eat enough carrots or something?

 

[Malty Milk Whistle]

Did you expect any less when you watch an episode without knowledge of previous events or any real interest in the ongoing plot? People are awfully quick to dismiss stories as "grimdark" when events occur beyond their understanding

Nice strawman defense. I don't care about the story - not even a little. What bugs me is the content and how it's framed and shot for Maximum Grimdark, despite the fact it makes very little actual logical sense.

U wot.
It made a lot of sense, and you're a silly goose for believing things I don't!
Most of the events in this series (Books and TV) are based on events from history, the red wedding is from a bunch of scottish blokes getting drunk then hacked to bits, and most of the stuff the Lannisters do, the Lancasters did first.
Martin did a LOT of research.

 

[Malty Milk Whistle]

Damn, I hate it when people just give up because something is too dark, perhaps OP didn't eat enough carrots or something?

Dammit, you made me giggle hot tea through my nose.
Curse you.

My captcha is "nope, chuck testa"
What is even.