Gaming plot holes

Innocent Flower

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Halo 4... All of it.

The concept of hardlight is thrown around everywhere, even where it doesn't work. the composer's a really shit machine by forerunner standards and shouldn't have any of the drawbacks it suffers. The didact's just a shit villain.

Skyrim:

A hundred dragon souls, visited countless word walls filled with libraries of information , Palls with greybeards: shouts are still weak as piss and can't be used often. Meanwhile there's a book about nords shouting forts down.
 

Euryalus

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UrinalDook said:
The heat of the radiation burst would vaporise the outer armor of the Reaper near where it hit due to the close proximity of the "blast." This would cause a "pressure pulse" damaging other parts of the reaper. The radiation could also potentially cause damage to the organic parts of the reaper when the bit of the hull is melted. It wouldn't be effective the same way as it would in a non vacuum. but it would be far more effective than having to take down the shield first or having to get close enough to use lasers.

The speed that the railgun allows the nuke to be fired will greatly reduce or eliminate their potential to be shot down. The guardian lasers are primarily used to take out the disruptor torpedos which are slow moving because they use mass effect fields to break through a barrier.

If a ship has been destroyed by a Reapers thanix cannon, then the only real problems would be for ships right near them. Without close proximity the hull won't vaporise to cause any damage and the ships would be shielded from the radiation. It could be a potential danger for fighters, but ship designs and tactics could fix it.
 

Euryalus

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Innocent Flower said:
What exactly was the point of the Didact's plan anyway? The flood were gone so it wasn't necessary to convert humans to prometheans, the humans originally attacked to get away from the flood (which are now gone and so not a problem), and the forerunners are all dead so can't "uphold the mantle."

What could his reasoning possibly be? It was stupid.
 

Korten12

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Innocent Flower said:
Halo 4... All of it.
Really? Oh dear let's look at this...

The concept of hardlight is thrown around everywhere, even where it doesn't work.
Hard light has been part of Halo since the very first game and it isn't new. Works exactly how the universe established it.

the composer's a really shit machine by forerunner standards and shouldn't have any of the drawbacks it suffers.
Forerunner standards? Oh please do tell me what those are. How is this a plot hole? The composer like the hard light worked exactly as the universe established it and the Composer in the game isn't the only one of it's kind.

The didact's just a shit villain.
This isn't even a plot hole. This is just an opinion.

Do you even know what a plot hole is?

T0ad 0f Truth said:
Innocent Flower said:
What exactly was the point of the Didact's plan anyway? The flood were gone so it wasn't necessary to convert humans to prometheans, the humans originally attacked to get away from the flood (which are now gone and so not a problem), and the forerunners are all dead so can't "uphold the mantle."

What could his reasoning possibly be? It was stupid.
Revenge. Plan and simple. He blamed Humanity for bringing the flood to their shores and believed them to be a parisite against the galaxy. The Didact wished to stop Humanity from gaining back their level of technology so that they couldn't take over the galaxy.

As for all the Forerunners being dead. That isn't actually confirmed yet. There were many shield worlds across the galaxy. For all we know there could be one with hundreds of thousands.
 

Euryalus

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Korten12 said:
Revenge. Plan and simple. He blamed Humanity for bringing the flood to their shores and believed them to be a parisite against the galaxy. The Didact wished to stop Humanity from gaining back their level of technology so that they couldn't take over the galaxy.

As for all the Forerunners being dead. That isn't actually confirmed yet. There were many shield worlds across the galaxy. For all we know there could be one with hundreds of thousands.
Yeah I know, I was just bitching in question form XD

I liked Halo 4, but I thought the story seemed a bit lame in comparison to all the other games. The main point of everything is basically Didact's a dick who wants revenge. The motivations of the covenant in the other games was political intrigue and misunderstanding of the Flood Forerunner war events. The motivations for the flood was an overpowering animalistic hunger. The evil behind them was clear but more nuanced than "revenge"

Besides I don't get what he was revenging against anyway. Humanity pushed the flood out of the galaxy before the human forerunner war ended in their defeat, then there were thousands of years between that and the rediscovery of the flood near the edge of the galaxy. Why did Didact blame that on humanity? That one was all on the forerunners.

I don't know it just seems like the motivations that drive the plot in Halo 4 are less believable than the other games.
 

cjspyres

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Heavy Rain

Ethan couldn't have been mistaken for the Origami Killer. The killings started a year prior to him being in a coma, and continued while he was in the coma.

Still, I really enjoy this game.
 

UrinalDook

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T0ad 0f Truth said:
The heat of the radiation burst would vaporise the outer armor of the Reaper near where it hit due to the close proximity of the "blast." This would cause a "pressure pulse" damaging other parts of the reaper. The radiation could also potentially cause damage to the organic parts of the reaper when the bit of the hull is melted. It wouldn't be effective the same way as it would in a non vacuum. but it would be far more effective than having to take down the shield first or having to get close enough to use lasers.
This... probably isn't the right place to discuss this. I have a horrible feeling this could get quite in depth. The thing is, you're making a lot of assumptions here. We have absolutely no idea what Reaper armour is made of. Or what their internal structure is like. We have no real data on what they can and cannot withstand, and therefore you can't just casually claim what an intense burst of heat would do to them. You've also got something wrong here for sure. The point I was trying to make earlier is that nukes don't give off a lot of heat in space, they can only radiate and heat radiation is fairly low energy - which is why we can use it to operate a TV from the couch without all getting skin cancer. Most of the energy released in the nuclear reaction will be transferred as X-Ray and Gamma radiation. While that would, if detonated at close proximity, likely be very lethal to the organic crew of a ship, we have no way of knowing whether or not it would penetrate far enough into a Reaper to hit whatever 'bit's of a Reaper are organic (we don't even know how that works).

All we can do is conjecture, and in that spirit allow me to offer up the Collector base. We can presume the Reapers built it, we know it was built with Reaper tech. It's located at the galactic core, and seemingly has no issue with the immense amount of radiation there. If they can withstand that, it's likely they can withstand a quick burst from a warhead detonation.

Indeed, looking back at your original argument, you've made an erroneous leap of logic. In short, it doesn't matter so much what quantity of energy is releases, it's how efficiently you transfer it to your target. The stats for the energy released in terms of 'bombs dropped on Hiroshima' should take into account that both the unit of measurement and the H-bomb figure you quote are derived on Earth. The Hiroshima bomb expended it's energy in an approximate hemisphere where it could impart a massive amount of kinetic energy to the surrounding air and ground, a dreadnought shell transfers three times that amount of energy, directly and linearly into its target, and it does so within a much, much smaller radius. In terms of energy intensity, that's a far, far greater order of magnitude than just 'three times as much'.

So, with your concept that three dreadnoughts match one Reaper, and firing together produce 9 times our yardstick bomb you have to bear in mind that all of that energy is transferred into a tiny fraction of the Reaper's surface area. That H bomb of 1000 times greater yield (again, that's an in atmosphere comparison, and not valid in a vaccuum, but let's use it anyway as an absolute upper bound) is going to be expending that energy radially in a perfect sphere, and it's incident on the Reaper over a much greater percentage of its surface area. Therefore, the amount of energy impacting on an area equal in size to that impacted on by the slugs is only going to be a tiny percentage of that 1000*base unit. Without some hard numbers, I can't say for sure, but I wouldn't imagine the energy intensity of that H-bomb is going to be much larger than the dreadnought shells.

Ugh, you see what I mean? It got way too in depth...

T0ad 0f Truth said:
The speed that the railgun allows the nuke to be fired will greatly reduce or eliminate their potential to be shot down. The guardian lasers are primarily used to take out the disruptor torpedos which are slow moving because they use mass effect fields to break through a barrier.
You've made another assumption here. Do we actually know how kinetic barriers work? And even if we can draw conclusions from gameplay, they're not necessarily reliable thanks to gameplay and story segregation [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GameplayAndStorySegregation]. Just because during gameplay, an explosive fired from a Falcon rifle detonates on contact with a shielded Cerbie Centurion, doesn't mean that's what had happened were the 'physics' of mass effect fields allowed to run the plot. Regardless, we can't extrapolate from personal kinetic barriers the performance of Reaper cap ship barriers. The point I'm taking a horribly long-winded route to get to is that we don't know if a slug fired at a Reaper's shields just squashes against the shields and floats off, or whether there is a perfectly elastic collision involved and the slug ricochets off. More than likely, it doesn't. But we don't know for sure. Therefore we can't necessarily predict the behaviour of a nuke fired at those shields.

T0ad 0f Truth said:
If a ship has been destroyed by a Reapers thanix cannon, then the only real problems would be for ships right near them. Without close proximity the hull won't vaporise to cause any damage and the ships would be shielded from the radiation. It could be a potential danger for fighters, but ship designs and tactics could fix it.
You've missed my point here. Putting aside the fact that, according to the codex, ships should be nowhere near close enough to each other for the explosion of one to jeopardise a neighbour, my concern wasn't what happens after the ship is destroyed. The point I was making is that a shot, from a Reaper or otherwise, that would normally only damage a ship if it struck the inert ammunition storage would become fatal if it was instead housing nukes.

I will stress that I'm not sure if being struck by superheated, superaccelerated metal would set off a nuclear device. If it doesn't, this isn't an issue. But I'm offering a potential drawback to the use of nukes.

My point, I suppose, is that this is a work of fiction. Given just how casually the Reapers break many established laws of physics already, it's incredibly easy to come up with plausible plot conditions as to why nukes don't work on Reapers. You're saying it's a plot hole that the Alliance doesn't just use nukes to beat Reapers, I'm saying the fact they don't implies it doesn't work - and that in a work of fiction as loose with science as Mass Effect, it's much easier to offer reasons why something doesn't work than to insist it should. Especially when your reasons for why it should aren't even that sound in a world of true-to-life physics.

EDIT: Final thought, something for you to run with. We're told that military starships use matter-antimatter reactions to provide thrust, that this is obtained from massive supercolliders positioned near and powered by stars. Why do we not see matter-antimatter bombs? Or even matter-antimatter tipped shaped charge slugs fired from rail guns? Expensive? Probably. Awesome? HELL YES!
 

silver wolf009

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NearLifeExperience said:
Shrack said:
Matches? Lara didn't know there would be a fire already made at that location.
An ever burning fire, that upgrades your weapons, trains you new ways to exterminate your fellow men and allows you to teleport to any previously visited campfire elsewhere. Man I wish fire worked like that.
Actually, they do. You just gotta be REALLY good at making them.

OT: Saren's Inaction is a good one. All that time... All that energy, wasted.
 

Lucky Godzilla

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Not so much a plot hole, but still terrible writing. The topic in question? Halo 4.

The problem is the Diadect and his motivations in general. The flood is defeated, the forerunners are practically extinct, humanity has not shown any undue aggression to him, yet he immediately hops back on the genocide bandwagon. It's like if FDR came back to life and ordered an invasion of Germany because they were our enemies in WWII, it's stupid.

Remember, these aren't even the same humans he fought thousands of years ago. According to one of the terminals, you know those sources of crucial information regarding motivation and backstory that are intentionally hidden from the player, the original humans he fought were effectively reduced to cavemen. Yet we are supposed to swallow that his asinine grudge provides sufficient motivation for mass genocide.

Furthermore, if the composer is effectively a gigantic death laser of doom that instantly dissolves biological matter, why wouldn't it work on the flood? And since we are on the topic of the composer,
why did the Diadect need a constant supply of humans to create Promethians? Did they not have hard drives or anything, no way to, I don't know, STORE data? I mean, look at the Prometheans, they aren't made biological material, so you obviously don't need a fresh supply of human.
On a side note,
does anyone find the ending where Cortana "shields" Chief illogical. He was right on top of the goddamn nuke, had she shielded him like she did, it would only serve to contain the blast in that immediate area, leaving the composer intact and reducing cheif to ash.
 

sextus the crazy

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fezgod said:
Tom_green_day said:
Here's one- Black Ops 2. It's the future, and there aren't any real guns that go pew pew pew? Treyarch, you failed me.
Yeah I like how in Black Ops 2 (and the first one) all of the time periods are pretty much interchangeable. Even if the "plot" takes place in the 1960s or 2020s, the weapons all appear exactly the same.
If a gun's design is good enough, It can last for a long time. Hell, we've been using the same .50 cal machine guns since late-WWI. Also, BW1s weapons were mostly anachronistic; most of the shit you used was invented in the 70s or 80s, although the acog-sight, Underbarreled grenade launcher-equipped, M16 you got at the bay of pigs mission should have tipped you off.

OT: One of my favorite games, Fire Emblem (GBA 2003), is full of them in the second part. Most noticeably, Nils/ Ninian never bother to inform the main characters about the big bad until really late in the game.
 

Slaanesh

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Don't know if its a plot hole, but Dead Space had something that bugged me. You play an engineer. Just some shmook who goes to the Ishumora(spelling?) to fix the thing. The necromorphs start to show up and you kill them. Tons of them. Yet, an escape pod with 1 fucking necromorph docks onto a military ship and takes out nearly the whole damn ship. Either this is a plothole or that necromorph was the reincarnation of Bruce Lee.
Malkav said:
I can easily explain all that: Ghosts and magic. It's Skyrim damnit!
 

go-10

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here's one for every zombie game EVER!
how are there so many zombies? If zombies eat their victims who exactly is it that's turning into a zombie?
Where does the food go, they don't have a digestive system so they'll end up bloated with rotten food right?
What about flies? They feast on rotting meat (zombies) and implant their eggs so in a matter of days all zombies will turn into walking maggots which assuming they stop reproducing (the maggots) it would roughly take them around 10 days to eat the whole thing!

so every zombie game ever, explain to me how the zombie apocalypse isn't over within 10 days?
 

esutton

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Malkav said:
Not much of a plothole, but you see it all the time. Especially in Skyrim.

You're entering a dungeon that has been sealed off for centuries. It's clearly evident by all the seals that you're the first adventurer for a long time who enters here.
But somehow, EVERY dungeon is brightly lit by candles and torches. Fresh ones.

Of course, it's a mistake to think for a single second how this makes no sense. It's done so you don't have to carry a torch for 50% of the game. But there's one quest that makes it impossible to not notice this.
You're in a secret part of a castle that hasn't been entered by anyone for centuries, with the possible exception of one person you hope to find here. Again, you find the place brightly lit, fresh blood, partially lived in. You're looking for clues like these, because you want to know wheter that person is still here. Spoiler alert, he/she hasn't been around for another lifetime.
Its because of the daedric lord Balfatam the lord of the never ending flames who's cult has been going around Tamriel for millinea lighting torches that will stand untouched by time until he returns in all his well lit glory.
 

Frozengale

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Mass Effect 1 - Why didn't Saren just take the Beacon with him? Or better yet why didn't he just blow it up? This is one of the most confusing parts about the series to me. It makes no sense.
 

Zipa

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UrinalDook said:
EDIT: Final thought, something for you to run with. We're told that military starships use matter-antimatter reactions to provide thrust, that this is obtained from massive supercolliders positioned near and powered by stars. Why do we not see matter-antimatter bombs? Or even matter-antimatter tipped shaped charge slugs fired from rail guns? Expensive? Probably. Awesome? HELL YES!

Or they would get their butts sued off by Paramount who own the Star Trek IP. :p
 

Darren716

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Modern Warfare 2
-Why did Shepard need to start a war with Russia to become a war hero
-Did no one check the security footage to see that there was only one American at the airport
-Did no one question why the only American terrorest was seemingly killed by his own "colleagues"
-Some of the Russian gunmen died at the Airport, where they not identified?
-The Russians would have to fly over Europe to get to America. Why didn't any countries see the planes and warn America?
 
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GZGoten said:
here's one for every zombie game EVER!
how are there so many zombies? If zombies eat their victims who exactly is it that's turning into a zombie?
Where does the food go, they don't have a digestive system so they'll end up bloated with rotten food right?
What about flies? They feast on rotting meat (zombies) and implant their eggs so in a matter of days all zombies will turn into walking maggots which assuming they stop reproducing (the maggots) it would roughly take them around 10 days to eat the whole thing!

so every zombie game ever, explain to me how the zombie apocalypse isn't over within 10 days?
Left 4 Dead, infected. Basically the rage virus. People are crazy, not actual zombies.

But no, you've basically said something I've said for years. I hate post zombie apocalypse worlds. They make no sense. Each major city would be a swarm of flies, rats, and other vermin. The stench alone would be enough to cripple a person, let alone have them breath in bacteria that would really make them sick.

The only zombie movie that ever made sense to me was Dawn of the Dead. Because each zombie became Olympic track runners, just booking after humans.
 

Arqus_Zed

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Final Fantasy VIII

Just... Final Fantasy VIII. All of it.

Though, I suppose there has been some discussion whether or not many of the things considered plot holes are actually just examples of "bad writing" and "simply not explained".

Memory loss by using GFs?
Cid being married to Edea and them running an orphanage of which all orphans end up being sEED members?
Why did Cid never tell the truth about the whole thing?
Do all monsters come from the moon?
The Shumi turn into Moombas if they fail their trails?
If the second Sorceress War didn't end until Laguna contained Adel, how could Deling have become president and fought against Esthar in the war?
What's with the whole "laguna sequences in the past"-thing?
You get your weapons taken away from you in prison, yet there's a prisoner who has set up shop there?
How do you become a sorceress?
Did Ultimecia create a temporal causality loop by transferring her powers to the past?
Time compression?
 

Rastrelly

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ME1:
- Why did Sovereign need the Conduit? Saren could get to the Citadel while still being a legal Spectre with ease and the one who would need the Conduit is Shepard.

ME2:
- Why there was no research and/or military outpost near Omega relay? Just imagine: near a distant village there is a car tunnel. Any car or man that got into it never returned. How do you think, would it be guarded and researched?

ME3:
- WHY????!!!! Seriously: if you'll think a bit, EVERYTHING you point at in this game makes no sense.