Gay characters in children's cartoons

[Bara_no_Hime]

Yes, being straight is the norm. Mainly because homosexuality is counter to the perceived biological function of the human being (to reproduce).

There is nothing morally wrong with gay people, but they aren't the norm. There is no reason something should be preferred because it's the "normal" thing to do anyway.

I see what you're saying, but I disagree with your use of normal. You are using it to mean most common. However, when previously used, it was used in a way that implied that homosexuality was abnormal or not present in nature.

Every mammal in the world has gay individuals. Every single one. This has been observed in both nature and lab setting. Homosexuality is just something that mammals do. It is therefore normal - perhaps uncommon, but normal.

That was my point.

 

[mr_rubino]

In a TV show for adults?

Fine

For teenagers?

Sure, why not

For young children?

Ehhhh, no.

I don?t think children at that age need to be thinking those sorts of things (Adult things). Let children be children, and you can tell them at an older age.

So I guess Sesame Street is really progressive then? I remember the Hispanic couple popping a kid out.
By the reasoning presented here, every good American's ass should be tightening shut with that "sudden Puritan fury" that's so common when we want to avoid uncomfortable subjects.

I believe, and I could be wrong here, is that he is trying to say, small children are incapable of understanding adult content, it's like giving a five year old child a condom and then explain to them what it is meant for, education wise this is just absolutely ridiculous, why do they need to know that? Short answer they don't, everything should be done in a crawl, walk, and then run phase, and I'm pretty sure he nailed it on the head with his post, be it pretty blunt. I think it should be something that's explored for young adults, they should be allowed to see the world for what it is and find their place in it.

But, then again, they do know everything already, stupid teenagers... when I was their age..............

Sesame Street is for pre-school and the elementary school age.
"Where do babies come from?" was probably asked a lot.
Nobody rioted.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

I think you guys are over shooting this. Being straight is biologically normal. Should we not present that as a norm? Yes, homosexuality is a part of life, but we dont need to stuff it into entertainment for the hell of it. Especially a kid's show. If a kid is going to be gay, let them find that out for themselves instead of doing it because this character from this show is gay.

Edit: Plus, i dont want to have to explain ANYTHING about sex to my children. Keep it simple.

The norm is just a societal construction.

I think it be real difficult to pull off a gay character on a kids show until people start really educating themselves.

 

[mr_rubino]

I think you guys are over shooting this. Being straight is biologically normal. Should we not present that as a norm? Yes, homosexuality is a part of life, but we dont need to stuff it into entertainment for the hell of it. Especially a kid's show. If a kid is going to be gay, let them find that out for themselves instead of doing it because this character from this show is gay.

You can present something as the norm while still having things that are unusual exist as well.
What do you mean by "we dont need to stuff it into entertainment for the hell of it."? Do you mean that giving a detail about a character that's considered odd by general society is pointless or silly? Would you also say that it's pointless to have a character who happens to be Spanish?

The way you seem to phrase it, you sound like you think that merely having a homosexual character in a show is forcing homosexuality on the children watching it, if so, was X-Men trying to make people Catholic because Night Crawler was one, was Spider Man trying to force me to take up photography, did Invader Zim try to convince kids they should get a defective robot?

I knew I was gonna get shit for this. The way you guys are putting it, it sounds like you want homosexuality in there just so it can be in there. Im not objecting to putting a gay character in, I just dont want it in kid shows. That said, I dont want to see hetrosexual love either. I do, however, belive that we should educate kids about hetrosexuality and homosexuality respectivley.

Heterosexual characters are already put on kid's shows just to be there.
What you "want to see" is different from "what reality is", and we know you're lying about heterosexuals on children's shows bothering you.
This is such shameless copypasta, I don't get why it even counts as discussion.

Dont tell me what i belive in. I babysit alot, and when doras parents had another baby, my little cousin asked me the big one. "Where do babies come from?". God, that was so awkward. When i went down to see my other cousin in missisippi, i went with my aunt who was pregnant. (baby should be coming any time now!) He was completley mystified by her belly. Kids are curious, and alot smarter than you guys give them credit for.

If they're that smart, why will seeing a gay scar them when seeing a husband and wife (even a pregnant one!) on the same show won't?

 

[subtlefuge]

(which is about every week and a half, by my calculations.)

Your calculations are far kinder than the OP deserves.

I also would like to ask why cartoons are so important. Do they really have that much of an influence? If they do, that is another more serious issue. Or is this yet another case of activists losing sight of the big picture and instead taking on the always successful task of attacking the media.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

Still the sexual aspect. The fact that the girl character has a crush on a girl still unveils a small amount of sexuality, even if it is innocent. There is no way to bring a gay character into a show without him or her having to go out of their way as a plot device to show that they are gay. It is pointless.

No, it isn't pointless. You are wrong.

Read above. Many gay individuals here at the Escapists would have felt better about themselves when they were younger if they could have found positive role models in their TV shows. They might have been able to accept who they were earlier. That would have been a wonderful, positive result of something like this. If we start now, then my children will have these sorts of role models when they're growing up.

That is the point.

 

[xdom125x]

Depends on what you mean by "kid's shows". If you mean shows on the level of teaching toddlers how to spell, then probably not (because they usually don't cover sexuality anyway). If you mean the Y-7 ballpark (around when shows start giving a damn about plot), then sure.
Also, homosexual characters don't have to be shoe-horned into every show, because that will lead to gay stereotypes or crappy characters who happen to be gay (which would defeat the purpose of adding gay characters to a show to promote tolerance). The writers should first and foremost be making developed characters (who might happen to be gay).

I think you guys are over shooting this. Being straight is biologically normal. Should we not present that as a norm? Yes, homosexuality is a part of life, but we dont need to stuff it into entertainment for the hell of it. Especially a kid's show. If a kid is going to be gay, let them find that out for themselves instead of doing it because this character from this show is gay.

I partially agree with you but the fact of the matter is that almost no children's show even acknowledges the existence of gay people. Ideally (at least for me anyway), children's shows would hold off on portraying sexuality in general ( at least until the Y-7 area), but they don't try to tip-toe around heterosexual relationships the way they do homosexual ones.
I understand that gay people make up only approx. 10 to 15% of the population, but that doesn't mean they should be non-existent in children's shows, because their non-existence in that sector can make gay kids feel like freaks.

While being straight is normal ( "way more common" would be less offensive), that doesn't mean it is good. Just like how being gay being "abnormal"(less common) doesn't make it bad.


P.S.: Not gay myself, just understand that the gay community gets a bad wrap (non-existence) in children's shows.

 

[Kevonovitch]

religion and sexuality, just like a cock, don't shove it down your kids throats. simple as that.

the retard babies will grow up, being dragged along by mass media, and thoes with more than 2 cells to rub togeather to keep that empty space warm, will form there own idea's.

besides, if parents could teach there kids better, i doubt mass media would make much of a difference anyways.

 

[PxDn Ninja]

Edit: Plus, i dont want to have to explain ANYTHING about sex to my children. Keep it simple.

Sorry, but that is your job as a parent.

That is the biggest issue. Sure have homosexual characters in cartoons. I'm ok with it, because I will teach my kids what it is about, just like I will teach them the difference between fantasy and reality.



Side note; Kipohippo, that wasn't a direct attack on you, just a commentary on the mindset a lot of parents have here in America.

 

[Julianking93]

I think it would be rather interesting see outright gay characters represented in cartoons. I don't that it would ever happen but it would certainly be interesting as opposed to the occasional innuendo as seen here:

 

[Sehnsucht Engel]

You know what in the middle of typing a paragraph I just figured I'm gonna keep it short. Firstly Rainbow Dash is only perceived as gay because of stupid stereotyping and labeling based on differences. The show does it best, if you're different be you and friends wont focus on those arbitrary differences. Shows have had that message forever but we as a society still stigmatize anything outside of the norm, that shit needs to stop. So a girl likes sports, who cares what their sexuality is, no sense speculating.

See, here's the issue with this. Rainbow Dash is NOT the standard lesbian stereotype.

Is she athletic? Yes. However, Applejack is more so.

Rainbow Dash is also very spontaneousness, prone to running off before she knows the situation, or sticking her head into things before she ready.

She also has hidden self-confidence issues, that come out rather spectacularly in one episode.

She is extremely loyal, but also kind of a ***** to her friends.

Of these, only the athleticism is a lesbian stereotype.

The support for her being gay (or bi) is as follows:

Her rainbow motif (gay pride colors).
The fact that she seems to crush on all of the Wonderbolts equally (male and female alike).
The fact that she is rather physical (both on affection and just rough-housing) with her female friends.

And honestly that isn't much to go on. The fact that she stalks Spitfire and Soaren through a party is the best evidence for it, IMO, but even that can be attributed to simple fan obsession.

tldr: My point is that Rainbow Dash is not actually a lesbian stereotype.

Is the standard lesbian stereotype a butch girl interested in sports?

My image of someone who is lesbian, is someone who's flirtatious and open minded. The thing that made me think Rainbow Dash was gay, was actually her voice. Until someone said it was a girl in the show. I thought it was a boy, then I thought too much about it. I know it's ridicolous, but other bronies thinks the same thing and I like to think she's gay. If it's based on differences I can understand it, as I've been labeled the same because of being different.

 

[Sporky111]

I grew up on Bugs Bunny. People seem to forget how often he crossdresses, and how often he kisses male characters. And there are a few Loony Toons cartoons featuring Sylvester getting a white stripe down his back and becoming an object of affection for Pepe Le Pew.

It can be done. People are just so focused on new things changing that status quo that they forget the obvious examples that already exist. And if things like that are so easy to miss, are they really so bad?

I also watched alot of classic loony toons. I clearly remember being curious, when i asked my dad he just said that boys kissing boys is bad. Best for schools to teach about it neutrally imo.

There is so much misplaced fear among people like your dad that I can't even begin to rationalize it, no offense to you. Teaching kids about homosexuality isn't going to turn them gay. And if they do turn out that way, then at least they won't be traumatized or scarred because of the fear of rejection or confusion about their orientation. Being gay isn't a bad thing anyway.

I do think schools should teach it. It doesn't even have to be a big deal like sex ed. Just tell little kids that some boys have boyfriends and some girls have girlfriends. Simple, to the point, and a whole hell of a lot less ignorant folks.

 

[AnkaraTheFallen]

I see the LGBT community found something else to ***** about.

Sure, bring on more homosexual cartoon characters. As long as they are not overly flamboyant or another SpongeBob, I wouldn't have a problem. Basically, more Ian McKellen and less Perez Hilton.

But then if you had a homosexual who acted like a normal human being, you wouldn't even know he was gay without implementing the sexual aspect, so looks it doesn't work.

Sure it does. Again, using the MLP example:

Rarity (girl) has crush on Prince Blueblood (boy). There is an issue of romance, but not sexuality. We also learn that Rarity has a crush on Blueblood in episode 3 - she doesn't actually get a date with him until episode 26.

To create the parallel, Rainbow Dash (girl) who could have a crush on Spitfire (girl). Even if nothing ever happens - even if Rainbow Dash never even speaks to Spitfire, the fact that she has a crush on her would let the audience know that she was gay.

Still the sexual aspect. The fact that the girl character has a crush on a girl still unveils a small amount of sexuality, even if it is innocent. There is no way to bring a gay character into a show without him or her having to go out of their way as a plot device to show that they are gay. It is pointless.

Well some kids shows already have straight crushes in them, and that seems to cause no issues at all, a gay crush would be the exact same, there's no need to make a big deal about the thing, just hinting at like they already do with straight crushes is enough to develop the character.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

Dont tell me what i belive in. I babysit alot, and when doras parents had another baby, my little cousin asked me the big one. "Where do babies come from?". God, that was so awkward. When i went down to see my other cousin in missisippi, i went with my aunt who was pregnant. (baby should be coming any time now!) He was completley mystified by her belly. Kids are curious, and alot smarter than you guys give them credit for.

And what exactly is wrong with telling them? "Babies are created in their mommy's tummy" or something similar. There is absolutely no reason to explain how the process began - answer the question directly and honestly and you don't have to worry about lies.

And yes, Kids are smarter - which is why children's television NEEDS to address these issues.

 

[SteewpidZombie]

HOLY POPTART ON A POGO STICK, the pony avatars are just appearing en'mass for this discussion!

On topic though, I do personally believe that having some homosexual characters wouldn't be a bad thing. As a kid I knew Bert and Ernie from Sesame Street were gay, yet I never had a problem with it. Growing up I had just been told by my mother that "There are some girls who like other girls, and some boys who like other boys, it is just how some people are. They are no different then anybody else".

Now I DO AGREE that homosexuality should NOT be a focus point as a character's main aspect or personality, but rather something that is simply apart of their identity. I wouldn't mind seeing a girl on a kids show who simply comes out and goes in one episode "Hey guys, this is my girlfriend Beth who I started dating several days ago". And that would be that, no complex backstory or excuses as to why, just that one single sentence to say "I'm gay" and everyone would accept and overlook that aspect as if she had just said her favorite color was green. Being Hetero or Homosexual should have ZERO effect on a character in any way shape or form in general.

 

[Snotnarok]

Ren and Stimpy are pretty gay, then again that was in the 'adult party' but I still recall that stuff in the original show.