"Gaymers" Speak Out On Homophobia

[Phoenix Arrow]

Text, text, text.
Text, text.
Text, text, text, text.

Before I start, never say this ever again "alot of the gay people I know in real life say "Oh my god oh my god oh my god" on a daily basis." Because you've clearly been watching too much Will and Grace.

To start, gay and ****** weren't ceated as offensive terms to homosexuals. The point was that they have been adopted as nicknames, and that these nicknames are meant to be offensive, much like calling a black man a ****** (although I've never understood why it's ok when these "gangster" types call each other it and that's fine). Using the word gay to describe something shows how society has made being gay a negative thing, ie noone want be gay so it's used as an insult.

I was planning on doing a counter to some of your points but reading again you've made so many blind generalisations of homosexuals that it's probably not worth the effort. Rest assured that 12 year olds yelling "DIE FAG" is not the worst that happens. Not by a long shot.

 

[Acervusvlos]

Which raises the question.. Did Jesus swallow?

(I had to say it!)

You have to ask? I've seen Passion of the Christ, Jesus is such a bottom.

So it's alright to make fun of Christians, and Jesus (Who even most athiests will tell you was an AMAZING person, and a great teacher), But using the word "GAY" is an affront to every single principle known to man?

That's just wrong. You shouldn't make fun of EITHER.
Or you should make fun of Both equally.

 

[Mariena]

Which raises the question.. Did Jesus swallow?

(I had to say it!)

You have to ask? I've seen Passion of the Christ, Jesus is such a bottom.

So it's alright to make fun of Christians, and Jesus (Who even most athiests will tell you was an AMAZING person, and a great teacher), But using the word "GAY" is an affront to every single principle known to man?

That's just wrong. You shouldn't make fun of EITHER.
Or you should make fun of Both equally.

I think atheists will just deny his existence, but none of that.

I'm not a politically correct person and I do not strive to be like that. I even make fun of myself and do not consider 'gay' to be offensive towards me (not anymore, you grow over these things after hearing them so many times).. after all, it IS what I am

However, this is just one of those light hearted jokes that mean no harm. Just like you calling people gay for the fun of it (though I'm not going to blurt out obscenities and racial slurs, that is most likely against the forum rules and.. not so civilized).

 

[Susan Arendt]

It's the internet, not real life.

I have never, and will never, accept that argument as an excuse for poor behavior. So long as you're a real person, and you're talking to real people, the things you say and do have weight and reflect on you as a person. Not being able to look someone in the eye is not a good enough reason to throw values and personal standards of conduct out the window or to stop caring how your actions might affect another person.

I don't for one moment think that you're trying to be malicious when you say "you're gay," but this "it isn't the real world" argument is pure nonsense.

 

[Orekoya]

I've seen Passion of the Christ, Jesus is such a bottom.

So it's alright to make fun of Christians, and Jesus (Who even most athiests will tell you was an AMAZING person, and a great teacher), But using the word "GAY" is an affront to every single principle known to man?

That's just wrong. You shouldn't make fun of EITHER.
Or you should make fun of Both equally.

No, that's making fun of a horrible horrible movie that deserves to be made fun of, even I will agree that Jesus may have had great things to teach. My only problem with christianity is with those who have been spoon-fed some rather jarring and incorrect beliefs about him. Case in point, the snuff film called Passion of the Christ.

Besides that's a good try for the Strawman. Trying to claim my earlier serious argument has lesser value or point now because of my aside joking on a completely different issue.

 

[Gildedtongue]

And, redFaction, "Fag" and "******" were used to denote gay people at the time people would tie them up in bundles and set them on fire. ****** having the original etymology of "a bundle of sticks."

 

[Acervusvlos]

It's the internet, not real life.

I have never, and will never, accept that argument as an excuse for poor behavior. So long as you're a real person, and you're talking to real people, the things you say and do have weight and reflect on you as a person. Not being able to look someone in the eye is not a good enough reason to throw values and personal standards of conduct out the window or to stop caring how your actions might affect another person.

I don't for one moment think that you're trying to be malicious when you say "you're gay," but this "it isn't the real world" argument is pure nonsense.

It's not an excuse, not at all.

However, we make slips of the tongue all the time, we say things we don't mean to.
Though I say it, and admit to saying it, doesn't mean I say it all the time, or even alot.

And if someone gets offended, I WILL apologize, however, you shouldn't take it as an insult either.

Though it's no excuse, it's no reason to get up in arms.

 

[redFaction]

Before I start, never say this ever again "alot of the gay people I know in real life say "Oh my god oh my god oh my god" on a daily basis." Because you've clearly been watching too much Will and Grace.

No, I wouldn't bother saying that if I didn't hear it an excessive amount of times. Who knows, maybe all the gay people I meet are just exceptionally obnoxious.

Rest assured that 12 year olds yelling "DIE FAG" is not the worst that happens. Not by a long shot.

In online gaming and yelling over headsets, yes, that is pretty much the worst that happens. Some idiot feels the need to incessantly bash someone for their orientation until someone leaves. At most, they'll find your e-mail and spam you with hate until they get bored.

If you're talking about gays being beaten or killed in real life however, then it's obviously not related to online gaming. Unless there has been a case of a gay-hater hunting down someone through Xbox-Live.

 

[AeoAeo330]

Dang... Long thread on a great subject. Important one too.

Admittedly, I've not read the majority of this thread. Too much for one night, especially as tired as I am right now, but I want to post my thoughts towards this.

The gay-bashing, the racialism, the sexism, all the stuff I would normally associate with 4chan is all too prevalent in online games. Sad, but true fact. Short of taking the controllers away from the immature players, which would severely hurt sales of games for sure, what can be done?

Personally, I have no problem with other players / friends having differing choices in sexuality, so long as it's not forced onto me. That's where I draw the line. Otherwise I welcome everyone with open arms, so to speak.

 

[Phoenix Arrow]

Don't want my post being ridiculously long... scroll up.

Firstly, I reckon that the only gay people you're familiar with are the ones that act needlessly camp. I hate when people do that so I can understand where you're coming from. But 90% of gay people are just regular people.

Secondly, I talk from experience when I say worse things happen than just that. But only my best friend knows about that and I'd like to keep it that way. If you don't believe me then so be it, I'd rather that then air my past in public.

 

[TOGSolid]

Or you should make fun of Both equally.

Ding ding ding, we have a winner. The trick is also making sure to make fun of yourself from time to time. A little self-deprecating humor goes a long way. The problems start when you get politically correct blowhards who have a driving need to take any little slight and blow it up to a major problem.

Why so serious?

Now if someone is quite obviously saying hateful speach i.e. the aformentioned bit about the guy talking about he wants to hang all the gays, then that guy is absolutely in the wrong (and probably has wet dreams involving a dick up his ass). But blowing up just because someone says something is gay is just a sign that you're just looking for any reason to start a fight. It's also just going to piss everyone else off, even the ones that don't care either way and blow any chance you had for sympathy.

Well, in that case, might as well use the f word publicly, along with the n word. Heck, maybe even in one sentence! They're just words and all!

Someone hasn't been keeping up with the shit they put on television these days.

 

[Orekoya]

Or you should make fun of Both equally.

Ding ding ding, we have a winner. The trick is also making sure to make fun of yourself from time to time. A little self-deprecating humor goes a long way. The problems start when you get politically correct blowhards who have a driving need to take any little slight and blow it up to a major problem.

Why so serious?

While I agree with this stance, again that's not really what was being discussed, people are coming into the thread saying things using the "because gays were asking for it" logic train forcing us to take that stance when we're saying "Don't insult/attack us on the net just because we're there then blame us for it" rotating that wheel of debate on this forum by some claiming we're rubbing it in their face when we're just here in disagreement and talking about it at all. Most were trying to drag this thread kicking and screaming to be back on topic. Nobody on either side here has said that it has to be serious 100% for all issues at all times, that would be tiring and stupid. Even in one of my previous posts I said I don't and I've made posts in jest too.

Recap what issue started the thread: gaygamer.net was viciously attacked for being a gamer website for gays and xbl is overflooded with twats screaming generic homophobic comments.

It doesn't really fall into my definition of ribbing in jest.

 

[Jumplion]

How you could be further from the truth :/

I don't know, what is the truth?

I'm starting to get sick of these answers, they don't answer anything. If I say something wrong in your opinion/fact/whatever explain it to me so I know what the hell it is you're getting on about. It started with Areis_Split saying he was distgusted by my post, but I have no clue what he's "disgusted" about so I don't know what's wrong with it. Don't leave me scratching my head wondering "What's he talking about?", tell me why I'm "further from the truth". It's a forum after all, debate a little.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Okay The_root_of_all_evil I'm just curious:

I said, ?I been to lots, it isn't ever about sex, not even remotely. And 3/4ths of the people are normally dressed discussing our existence and interests during the event. What gets put on the TV is just sensationalism, attention-getting crap because the boring normal people aren't rating catchers. There are absolutely no gay sex advertisements going on there that I've seen unless they've been hiding it from me with those Sex-Crazed Homos you mentioned?

You replied, ?Wrong, wrong, right but irrelevant, you're missing the free condoms/lube and latex squares then? as well as the STD awareness ads??

I replied, ?the sex eds classes are the same as playing pornos in school? Teaching people mannerisms to protect themselves and how to be aware and safe aren't the same as discussing how to perform double penetration and don't pretend it is.?

You now say ?Ad Hominem argument. Strawman. Hypocrisy.?

I scratch my head and now say, ?Wtf are you talking about? Saying that std prevention isn?t gay advertisements isn?t attacking you or making the homo-hater.?

Seriously, pointing out that just giving people the tools and information to practice safe sex isn?t an advertisement for gay sex, ie my point that are no gay sex advertisements and Sex-Crazed Homos at pride that Whitelyon in an earlier post claimed isn?t an attack on you.

The other crap was just irrelevant bsing to mess with you though. Case in point:

You're the only one responsible for what comes out of your mouth.

SO not making that joke here.

Since you won't and it's so giggle worthy and versatile.

"Do not judge, and you will not be judged; and do not condemn, and you will not be condemned; pardon, and you will be pardoned." Luke 6:37

Remember, Jesus recommends swallowing.

*smiles* So much nicer when you're not hating. Ok, fair questions.
The, admittedly few, Gay Prides I've been to have been a Parade followed by a Fair. Most of the activity at the fair is quite seriously non-sexual; but the Parade itself is as sexual as it gets; if they were allowed to bonk on the back of the float they would; but that's parades around the World. Mardi Gras is also noticeably sexual.
Most of the TV coverage is usually quite fair, or is here.
Most of the Free Condoms/Lube/Squares deliberately put sexual images on the packing because they're TRYING to get people to look at them. Gay men in general have FAR more sexual partners/drug use than hetero men because the 'access' is there.
The old joke is "What does a Gay Man say to his partner on the second date?
What second date?"

Ok, next part. Ad Hominem refers to equating sex classes with pornos. There's far too many points why they're substantially different. And it's something I just didn't say.
Strawman is from when you're equating safe sex to double penetration. Gay sex is noticeably more dangerous than Hetero sex (though Lesbian is less), but anal intercourse isn't taught to either Hetero or Homosexuals.

You can see my point, I hope, now though. The first access most people get to Homosexual behaviour is either "Don't drop the soap" or "EVERYTHING'S FABULOUS" or "I'm GAY and you're oppressing me."
Each gives an unrealistic viewpoint of what a sexuality is all about. And threads like this fall into the latter category.

If you're gay, that's all fine and peachy. BUT, and this is a very big but, it doesn't mean that any insult against you is BECAUSE you're gay. We all get it at times.

A gay friend of my brother once was ranting about how the "Fairytale of New York" should be banned because of the misuse of the word '******'. I simply suggested to him that perhaps they should ban the "Fairy" bit in the title as well.

The way forward is by teaching, not hating. Gay is a 'net insult because of the guttural start to the word followed by the trailing off vowel; not due to any connotations to homophilia.

There are some real shits out there, some of whom may just not have come out of the closet yet and are attacking the thing the fear the most. And my brain's trailing off now because it's tired...

You want to see what gay people have done for the world? Some of the greatest actors, playwrights, inventors, philosophers...Hell, Charles Babbage (the inventor of the computer) was gay.

As for the Bible, 13 men hanging around together with a prostitute and a virgin mother?

But for a giggle worthy quote to finish, how about "Turn the other cheek" rather than "An eye for an eye"?

 

[mr mcshiznit]

Lets face it yall, people on the web or xbox live/playstion are dumb. People think its cool to be racist or gay bash. they want to be cool and do what everybody thinks is "funny". until you have 13 year olds playing games with there moms within ear shot or people actually getting in trouble for hate speech it will continue and the rest of us more politically correct people will have to just sit by and ignore the bigots.

 

[Geoffrey42]

Before I start, never say this ever again "alot of the gay people I know in real life say "Oh my god oh my god oh my god" on a daily basis." Because you've clearly been watching too much Will and Grace.

No, I wouldn't bother saying that if I didn't hear it an excessive amount of times. Who knows, maybe all the gay people I meet are just exceptionally obnoxious.

I don't quite understand how "oh my god" is offensive to Christians, especially compared to the use of the word "gay" as a derogatory term. Taking the Lord's name in vain is a violation of the commandments, certainly, but isn't that between me and my deity, not you and yours? Using the term "gay" as a general synonym with "bad", and using it that way a lot, reinforces negative stereotypes. These are not analogous, not by a long shot.

 

[Orekoya]

Ok, next part. Ad Hominem refers to equating sex classes with pornos. There's far too many points why they're substantially different. And it's something I just didn't say.
Strawman is from when you're equating safe sex to double penetration. Gay sex is noticeably more dangerous than Hetero sex (though Lesbian is less), but anal intercourse isn't taught to either Hetero or Homosexuals.

You can see my point, I hope, now though. The first access most people get to Homosexual behaviour is either "Don't drop the soap" or "EVERYTHING'S FABULOUS" or "I'm GAY and you're oppressing me."
Each gives an unrealistic viewpoint of what a sexuality is all about. And threads like this fall into the latter category.

If you're gay, that's all fine and peachy. BUT, and this is a very big but, it doesn't mean that any insult against you is BECAUSE you're gay. We all get it at times.

Adequate points but it doesn't invalidate my point before, when whitelyon said all gay parades are just sex sex sex, I respond by saying it isn't, and then you saying I'm wrong then pointing to the condoms/std info, to which I respond that isn't the same thing as sex and gave examples on why. You even just agreed with me. And I don't think people are attacking me because I'm gay, at least not here and now on this thread anyway. Rather I'd hazard to guess they're probably doing it because some defensively think I'm being spiteful dick when I'm trying to make a point earlier. But that doesn't mean it isn't happening, that people online aren't being hateful attacking others for being gay and that's what started the thread in the first place. When some douche-bag gamers attacked gay gamers for being a gay gamer site. Then yadda yadda yadda read above I'm not doing another whiny sounding recap of what has been said. I can feel it already making me sound more nasally and angsty.

 

[WhitelionArokh]

Thanks everyone for the feedback; To: Orekoya, thanks for the comment, I tried to cover as many points of view as I could, but I did miss some. As for the sex thing only belonging in marriage, I know it doesn't just belong in marriage and I know I will probably have sex outside of marriage myself, I should have phrased my belief better. Casual sex I am fine with, of course I support condoms and the like, but Making Love, I think.....well that is the type of thing you can only do with a mate anyway, so I meant I believe making love should only be in marriage or between two (or three) people who are committed to each other. I have polygamous friends (only a tri-couple) and they, I believe, are in love with each other. Now, I hurry back to my assignments, I procrastinate as much I work. Thanks again for the feedback, I'm trying to get better at commenting. Sorry if you made important points I didn't mention, I'm re-reading previous pages and now that I've read my own comment I felt I was being a bit condescending.

 

[David Allen]

Here is my two cents!

Homophobia is (in my opinion) the most discriminated group in society at the moment. They're denied the right to be open and honest about themselves without fear of verbal or even physical abuse. Two of my best friends are lesbians and they've been together for 4 years now and they've gotten to the point where they feel comfortable enough to embark on a little PDA every now and then. No more then a kiss. And most of the time nothing absolutely horrible comes of it but they get weird looks and on occasion insults and horrible comments. Now, my boyfriend and I do the same and nothing. Nothing comes of it, nothing has ever come of it.

They're denied the right to marry in most countries around the world, even those whose laws are supposed to be separate from religion. (But that is a whole other thread)

The internet is a place where people can go to and express their opinions without the fear of repercussions. And unfortunately many choose to abuse this resource by spreading hatred and their ignorant ideals. And this is by no means separate from gaming. Whether you announce your sexuality or not is irrelevant to me. Even if no one knows on the internet you still know yourself the kind of feedback you'd get if you ever were to let anything slip, like the name of your partner.

My point is that homophobia is a horrible stain seen on politics, the internet, society. And the only way this can be fixed is by discussion, and acceptance.

 

[redFaction]

I don't quite understand how "oh my god" is offensive to Christians, especially compared to the use of the word "gay" as a derogatory term. Taking the Lord's name in vain is a violation of the commandments, certainly, but isn't that between me and my deity, not you and yours? Using the term "gay" as a general synonym with "bad", and using it that way a lot, reinforces negative stereotypes. These are not analogous, not by a long shot.

In case anything suggested I was a Christian or even religious, I'm not. Christianity isn't about one single individual's relation to God, but about humanity's relation to God. And with that in mind, a Christian would be offended since any reference to God would be to the one and only God of Abraham (I don't really get it either, but I don't need to).

My point was whether or not we should remove certain words from daily usage just because certain groups are offended by them. And if we are, then there shouldn't be exceptions.

By saying that Christians shouldn't be offended by someone else using their Lord's name in vain is a cop out argument that doesn't address the double standard that is present.