Gearbox Can't Increase Borderlands 2's Level Cap (Without Breaking It)

[CardinalPiggles]

So by balancing the skills very carefully in this game they've ruined the opportunity to increase the level cap? Correct me if I'm wrong here. I just don't see another possible reason as to why it was very possible in the first game but not in this one?

It doesn't bother me too much though because like 84% of the others that play Borderlands 2 I never reached level 50 anyway. I haven't even finished the main game.

 

[Techno Squidgy]

And yeah, I thought of that in like 2 seconds after reading this post....how can they not come up with something WAAAAY better with a full staff and so many months to think about it?

Perhaps because they're privy to the internal workings of the game code and you aren't? I haven't played it yet, but chances are it is pushing the limits of the consoles. The hardware of the consoles is very out of date by now.

 

[Shadow-Phoenix]

The number of people talking PC vs Xbox 360 when it comes to BL2 seems to indicate against the former, BTW. You might be able to find forums where PC users outrank console users, but it generally goes 360>>>>PS3>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>PC.

well, msot of the time it seems to be based on forum users:
360>>>>>>PC>>>>>>WII>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>PS3, but granted you may be visiting different forums than i am.

Isnt the general layout of the Escapist normally around

PC>Xbox360>>>PS3>>>>>>>>Nintendo?

I generally thought it was:

70% PC only
10% Xbox
10% PS3
5% Nintendo
5% Hybrids

 

[Shadow-Phoenix]

The number of people talking PC vs Xbox 360 when it comes to BL2 seems to indicate against the former, BTW. You might be able to find forums where PC users outrank console users, but it generally goes 360>>>>PS3>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>PC.

well, msot of the time it seems to be based on forum users:
360>>>>>>PC>>>>>>WII>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>PS3, but granted you may be visiting different forums than i am.

Isnt the general layout of the Escapist normally around

PC>Xbox360>>>PS3>>>>>>>>Nintendo?

I generally thought it was:

70% PC only
10% Xbox
10% PS3
5% Nintendo
5% Hybrids

I think there is significantly less PC only folk and a larger number of PC primary/ assorted console secondary folk

That too but ones who own secondary consoles but still primarily focus more on the PC.

I'm technically a hybrids since I still use my 360 a lot in the midst of building a new PC and once I grab a Wii U I'll be dividing my time between the 3.

 

[AT God]

I hit level 50 in the base game, reaching level 40 during my first playthrough, so I don't really want to play any DLC's if my character can't get any better.

My plan was to start a gunzerker from scratch once I got all the DLC's but if the level cap stays at 50 I will probably wait until the DLC is down to about 10 bucks for all of them.

 

[Strazdas]

The number of people talking PC vs Xbox 360 when it comes to BL2 seems to indicate against the former, BTW. You might be able to find forums where PC users outrank console users, but it generally goes 360>>>>PS3>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>PC.

well, msot of the time it seems to be based on forum users:
360>>>>>>PC>>>>>>WII>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>PS3, but granted you may be visiting different forums than i am.

Isnt the general layout of the Escapist normally around

PC>Xbox360>>>PS3>>>>>>>>Nintendo?

Escapist is quite unique in many perspectives.

 

[bearlotz]

who the hell invented level cap anyway? what happened to no level cap games? why would you EVER want a level cap? maybe if you fail to program a formula for skills based on level, you know, you fail at basic math. there is no other excuse.

...there are lots of reasons for level caps, just because you personally don't like them doesn't mean that they are useless from a design perspective. And besides that, I'd love to know what kind of inside access you had to the design process on this or any other game that gave you the impression that the devs "fail at basic math". Or failing that, could you maybe post a scan of your game design degree? How about a link to your portfolio of successful games? Something to substantiate your insults is all I'm really asking for here.

Spoiler: -snip-

I always love the arguements from the masses. So how many of you folks are actual video game designers, computer programmers etc etc? Probably very few of you. So how about you shut up and listen to what ther makers of the games are actually telling you instead of of thinking you know the answers. Jeepers people are never happy. And boy could I see the bitching if Gearbox did raise the cap and shit hit the fan.

Now to you who are designers or programmers, is what Gearbox saying legite? Are there workarounds? Will it just need time?

Precisely, I don't understand why people think Gearbox would willingly withhold something they could make a fortune off of and then lie about it to the fans. I love when people say shit like, 'balancing the game can't be that hard,' blissfully ignorant of the thousands, if not millions, of variables that have to be taken into account in a game like Borderlands 2.

Most of you couldn't even balance a shitty Newgrounds flash game, so why not leave the grown-up game-making to the professionals.

As an aside, I really like the way that Gearbox guy talks, he always seems really cool and normal, as opposed to the prepared statements other companies give out.

Thanks for posting this, it makes my point pretty clearly. Unless you have some kind of actual information on the development process or you have some reason to believe that the devs are lying to you, why would you not accept the given explanation in this case?

Sounds like people could deal damages that exceed their variable types. I don't imagine they used doubles for all damage counters, probably unsigned ints.

This sounds plausible, and now that you've made me curious about the idea I'm kind of sad that we likely won't get an answer on it...

 

[Mike Kayatta]

Meanwhile, hitting level 50 gives you an achievement called "Max level ... for now." As much as I dig BL2, forward thinking it is not. It's a game that wants to do a million things but has no idea how. They can barely even keep the thing from breaking (i.e. after months of following RP's Twitter and hand typing in Shift Codes, all 65 of my buddy's golden keys magically disappeared, badass points resetting, glitching boss fights, etc. etc.) If they actually think it's going to break the game, and say as much aloud, bet your ass that the situation must be really, really bad.

 

[otakon17]

I finished the game with my level 50 Gunzerker(twice actually) he doesn't feel over powered in any way or shape. It's a bit ridiculous that the "tank" of the game is just as squishy as everyone else at max level. Enemies just do such ridiculous amounts of damage and take so much to kill it's tedium. Not only that but my luck in getting decent guns since hitting 50 has been abysmal as hell. The ONLY Legendary I've gotten was from a friend that duped them.

Gearbox, you didn't HAVE to raise the numbers to extremes when the game was being developed. That is where you went wrong, you made the numbers too damn big. The numbers from the first game were fine. Reminds me a bit of the progression of stats in the typical RPG. At first they capped at 99, then 255, THEN 999 and Disgaea just said "FUCK THAT NOISE" and made caps in the MILLIONS. More numbers does not mean better, since it's all relative in practice.

 

[subtlefuge]

First of all, if anything's giving way first, it's the game engine before your hardware, so stop pissing on the console people. They have things hard enough as it is. Using their fingers to play games, ridiculous.

However, I have little sympathy for them when I came up with a workaround in 10 seconds. Sure, maybe the game can't handle 2 warping, exploding, rocket pod, slag sentries, but why not lock out the 3 original trees at level 50, and open up a new tree specifically designed for late game balance and not breaking the game. It could just have small bonuses, and it could be controlled in a way that it only served to make the characters more adept, but not more of a strain on the engine (or hardware if you prefer to make yourself look better).

In fact, I'm sure my idea isn't the only way that something like this could be implemented. Heck, most of these people have actually studied and devoted their lives to game design, if they wanted to do something like this, they could do it even better. So next time, just tell us you're too lazy or tired of Borderlands to raise the level cap. Don't say we can't handle it.

 

[wooty]

This is not good news for me, I've not touched the game or bought the DLC because.......I don't know, tearing through a game without any gain just feels hollow. The loot seems to be not getting any better either.

I'm just letting the game rot until they find a way to raise the level cap.

 

[Ignatz_Zwakh]

This saddens me, but at least they've solid reasons. Oh well! Time to focus on my Siren.

 

[Alar]

They could always just add another level of progression different from normal levels. Call them 'prestige levels' that you gain only after hitting the cap, and come up with some new abilities for people to use that you can balance with whatever they might possibly have at level 50.

Done and done.

First of all, if anything's giving way first, it's the game engine before your hardware, so stop pissing on the console people. They have things hard enough as it is. Using their fingers to play games, ridiculous.

However, I have little sympathy for them when I came up with a workaround in 10 seconds. Sure, maybe the game can't handle 2 warping, exploding, rocket pod, slag sentries, but why not lock out the 3 original trees at level 50, and open up a new tree specifically designed for late game balance and not breaking the game. It could just have small bonuses, and it could be controlled in a way that it only served to make the characters more adept, but not more of a strain on the engine (or hardware if you prefer to make yourself look better).

In fact, I'm sure my idea isn't the only way that something like this could be implemented. Heck, most of these people have actually studied and devoted their lives to game design, if they wanted to do something like this, they could do it even better. So next time, just tell us you're too lazy or tired of Borderlands to raise the level cap. Don't say we can't handle it.

Yes, this exactly.

 

[Don't taze me bro]

Congratulations Gearbox on a complete lack of foresight when planning your game with future expansions.

Sure, only a small percentage of players have hit the level cap, but it's these players that will be the ones to buy your next planned 'season pass' and extra expansions.

 

[The Lugz]

and please focus on the exact words, "your x box will crash"

thank you xbox 360!

Spoiler: if you feel offended, click

just fun. take it easy.

quoting you because i like your pictures

the thing is, they don't really need higher levels to pile on more skills you could have say a piece of dlc with a laboratory area with some crazed alchemist that experiments on you and lets you buy a tonic of skill to gain levels, but you need 3 levels to get a skill point
or award health or another stat instead of normal skills
or open a new tree of skills, and only let you pick from them when you're over a certain level
call them 'tonic skills'

there's always a way of modifying a system without breaking it, it's just down to creativity and budget
it may just simply be economically unviable

 

[Goofguy]

Allow us to interchange characters as we progress through the game. This means if we hit max lev we can just swap out to a under level character and boost them, I love Claptrap but the idea of doing his starting missions five times is a tad jarring.

That's actually a pretty good idea. Too bad my highest levelled alt is only lvl 16. I don't think he can effectively handle those tough lvl 53 witch doctors.

 

[theultimateend]

So they deliberately made a game that had nowhere to go even though they had plenty of DLC planned for it?

If that's an actual question the answer is "No."

Congratulations Gearbox on a complete lack of foresight when planning your game with future expansions.

Sure, only a small percentage of players have hit the level cap, but it's these players that will be the ones to buy your next planned 'season pass' and extra expansions.

Anything besides anecdotes and hunches to support that?

 

[Defenestra]

A big part of how this game's skills were set up was built around having them interact with eachother in interesting ways. Axton's Longbow turrent enhancement plus the Nuke enhancement makes both of those skill points wildly more useful than they would be if the two skills were taken seporately.

Or Maya bouncing back bullets, and recovering hitpoints when she does damage, and causing damage when she takes health damage. Plus acid clouds that trigger on the ricochet just for fun.

Or all the skills that enhance the terrifying power of Salvadore's Gunzerk, on top of all of the skills that extend his gunzerk.


Y'know how in Saints Row 3, you build up enough upgrades and you're basically unstoppable? Taking no damage, firing nonstop without reloading or running low on ammo?

Y'know how in Skyrim, some arrangements of skills and perks leave you kind of fragile, relative to the monters that come at you, and some of them turn you in to the fucking god of thunder?


They're trying to avoid that. And if they'd rather send us a dissapointing message, advising us that this is going to be hard and not to hold our collective breath on an increased level cap, and that if/when they get one working it will not be straight-up progression off of the current framework than just add some numbers and watch Xboxen burst in to tears and/or flames, then I'm okay with that decision.

(edited for spelling)

 

[FoolKiller]

Pitchford notes that only about 16 percent of players hit level 50 at all.

Well the reason I haven't gotten there (level 50) either on Steam or 360 is I don't want to get there before beating the DLC so I avoid TVH mode. People are waiting for a level increase so they have something to look forward to when playing the rest.

I understand his concerns though. In part 1, I had a level 61 Roland and the only map capable of causing me concern was Secret Armory of General Knoxx. Having said that, I kinda like the idea of having a god character in the game. And it isn't THAT overpowered when you are playing solo.

Hell, they removed some items such as the healing shields which made the game ridiculously easy in the first one.

EDIT:
They also aren't lying about the Xbox having issues. I have an Xbox and my level 35 with all the bells and whistles has severe framerate drops whenever I decide to do some more intense fights. And I'm only playing zero. I don't want to know what would happen if I tried it with Axton and the double turrets.

2nd EDIT:
I think the reason people are fuming an extra bit that no-one seems to mention is that the achievement for getting to level 50 is called Capped Out... For Now. I've never seen something that hints so powerfully at raising the level cap as that.