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Chimpzy

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TheMysteriousGX

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Looks like the only people who got harassed around this game, were the streamers trying to play it.
You aren't looking very hard then
Like, I could start asking the flame war questions like "was there harassment or just people expressing disappointment in public"? The chat screenshots I've been seeing around imply the latter to me, but those standards start seeing double in a hurry so I'm just not gonna bother.

Other response stands: if you aren't interested in HP but feel the urge to buy it to "own the libs" or "fight back against harassment" or what ever, don't. Just give that money directly to whatever streamer you feel got wronged
 

Elvis Starburst

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This isn't some unique situation, the composer of the Dragon Quest series, Koichi Sugiyama, was a giant piece of shit as well. And the money that he made of that franchise - and it made A LOT of money - also undoubtedly went to whatever hate groups he was a part of. Which is why it surprised me (and gladdens me) that this time there's actually some real noise being made, as I expected this to go the way of Dragon Quest 11's release, where we at best got one or two articles highlighting what a fucking piece of work this guy was. It's sad some streamers with genuinely good intentions are being caught in the crossfire, but it's a good thing a stink is being raised, eventhough it'll still end up making a shitzillion dollars for WB Games and Rowling.
I want to believe in the whole "speaking with your wallet" thing where I can, but for stuff as big as Harry Potter (where JK herself has a net worth of nearly a billion dollars just on her own), is what little people spend on the game really going to put any sort of noticeable dent in any of it? A few people not spending their money on a game isn't going to topple the billion dollar empire that is Harry Potter. I guess if it makes you feel better to not put any money towards them then more power to you, you don't have to give any kind of support, even a minor amount, where you don't want to. But I hope people aren't doing it with the expectation that this form of protest is going to cripple Harry Potter as a franchise, cause it's not gonna happen that way.

See, that's what you get when you rush things out the door.
Haaahhh~ I'm a bit bummed the doors look like garbo considering how amazing everything else looks, hopefully it'll get patched out.

Super excited that this is coming out though, and I'm SUPER stoked that Ghost Trick is getting a remaster too. I love and adore that game, and it definitely deserves a second shot (especially for those who can't afford to buy a rare copy of the original game, and the iOS port is... ok, but not great. Was awesome when it released, but less so nowadays as it hasn't been improved for newer phones)
 
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Casual Shinji

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I want to believe in the whole "speaking with your wallet" thing where I can, but for stuff as big as Harry Potter (where JK herself has a net worth of nearly a billion dollars just on her own), is what little people spend on the game really going to put any sort of noticeable dent in any of it? A few people not spending their money on a game isn't going to topple the billion dollar empire that is Harry Potter. I guess if it makes you feel better to not put any money towards them then more power to you, you don't have to give any kind of support, even a minor amount, where you don't want to. But I hope people aren't doing it with the expectation that this form of protest is going to cripple Harry Potter as a franchise, cause it's not gonna happen that way.
I don't know what percentage Rowling is going to get from the proceeds of this game, but it's not going to be a pittance. Whatever money she doesn't get to platform and spread her bullshit, or financially support whatever hateful bigots she's alligned herself with is worth it. Not that I think this game won't sell well though. The outcry is to me the important step; that there's review sites that refuse to review it, and that the noise has caused a stir. Rowling is going to be rich till the day she dies, but each little brick that dams in her rhetoric is important, and this feels like one of those little bricks.
 
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Bedinsis

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Add me to the list of people that hate bought the game. Never intend to play it. Wasn't interested in it. But damn if I am sick and tired of all these miserable and wretched people that want to use a cause to justify themselves being horrible people.
Do as you please but if it will be read as anything it will be read as a statement that Rowling's politics didn't ultimately matter, not as a protest against harassers of streamers. That or as an endorsement of her politics.
 
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hanselthecaretaker

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I don't know what percentage Rowling is going to get from the proceeds of this game, but it's not going to be a pittance. Whatever money she doesn't get to platform and spread her bullshit, or financially support whatever hateful bigots she's alligned herself with is worth it. Not that I think this game won't sell well though. The outcry is to me the important step; that there's review sites that refuse to review it, and that the noise has caused a stir. Rowling is going to be rich till the day she dies, but each little brick that dams in her rhetoric is important, and this feels like one of those little bricks.
She’s still making her cut though either way, while the actual people who spent years working on the game for far, far, faaaar less are the ones having to endure all the outcries and people shitting on it just because of her. Talk about demoralizing when they’re just doing their jobs, and apparently pretty well considering the consensus of people who’ve bothered to play it.
 

Gyrobot

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I don't know what percentage Rowling is going to get from the proceeds of this game, but it's not going to be a pittance. Whatever money she doesn't get to platform and spread her bullshit, or financially support whatever hateful bigots she's alligned herself with is worth it. Not that I think this game won't sell well though. The outcry is to me the important step; that there's review sites that refuse to review it, and that the noise has caused a stir. Rowling is going to be rich till the day she dies, but each little brick that dams in her rhetoric is important, and this feels like one of those little bricks.
I agree, and I am proud to have thrown my brick at her rhetoric
 

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My board game group got a whole article in the Chicago Tribune!!!

I am kinda in the picture.



If this is paywalled for ya'll, here's the text:

It was perfect timing.

“I was actually thinking of getting out of gaming right before this happened,” said Brian Mola of Cedar Lake.

The friends the board game aficionado regularly played with had moved back to the Chicago area, and he didn’t know anyone else nearby who was interested.

But while visiting his college roommate in Elkhart, it was brought to his attention that someone in Merrillville posted on boardgamegeek.com looking to meet up with other local board gamers. Although Mola, who was living in Highland at the time, missed it because he was out of town, he contacted organizer Scott Hankins of Merrillville. They agreed to meet that upcoming Monday.

“We met, we hit it off and we’ve been friends for the last 11 years,” Mola said.

Three people attended that first meeting. Having enjoyed themselves, they decided to try it again the following week. More people came.

“Within a few months we probably had about 20 different people by that summer that come in and was coming in regularly,” Mola said.

Now, the group known as the Board Game Association of Northwest Indiana meets weekly from 6 to 10 p.m. Mondays at the Holiday Inn Express in Merrillville.

“We usually draw about 20-25 people every Monday night, probably from a group of 40 regulars or so,” Mola said.

Open to the public, there is a $5 charge to cover the cost of the room rental.

“Your first time is free so you can come out and join us and see what it’s all about,” Mola said.

The group plays a lot of strategy, card and party games, he said.

“We don’t usually play the role playing games because those are like three or four hour sessions by themselves,” Mola said. “So a lot of what we play are board games that last about an hour or two hours.”

Games like Ticket to Ride, Settlers of Catan and Terraforming Mars.

“That’s been very popular in our group,” he said of the Mars-building game.

In addition, the group now meets from 6 to 9 p.m. Wednesday nights at Sip Coffee House in Highland. In January the group started hosting meets Wednesday nights at the Sip’s Hobart location as well. The association also holds a monthly game night at Sip in Cedar Lake. There is no charge for the meet ups at Sip locations.

“At the Sips and stuff we try to do more party type things, things that allow more people to play at one time,” Mola said. “Quicker games because we only have three hours there. Those games usually last maybe 45 minutes to an hour, hour and a half so we can get a couple games in, try to switch up the tables and who we’re playing with.”

Monthly all-day game days and special events are held at different locations throughout the year too.

While the Association has about 40 regulars to the meet ups, on its official Facebook page there are more than 600 members.

“We got a lot of people that come here, met us and moved away and we still keep in touch with them,” Mola said. “We’ve connected with people in the south suburbs of Chicago, people out in Elkhart, stuff like that.”

Members also join the Facebook group after learning about the Northwest Indiana association at Gen Con, the largest tabletop game convention in North America, held annually in Indianapolis.

“It’s like a family reunion at times,” Mola said. “People come from all over the country, in fact the world, showcasing their new games. So we met a lot of people that way as well.

“We’ve had people that have actually published board games that have been a part of our group,” Mola said.

Among those was Alan Ernstein, whose games include Inca Empire and Nevada City.

“He was a visiting professor at (Valparaiso) University, so we met up with him — we got to actually play test a lot of his games,” Mola said. “Some of them have gotten published and so we’ve gotten credit as play testers for him in the rules set.”

Through its volunteer work teaching games at Gen Con, association members were asked to help test the Star Wars X-Wing Miniatures game.

“We play tested that quite a bit,” Mola said.

Most of the games played at the meet ups are what players call Euro games, he said. “They originated in design from Europe primarily and then other countries started developing them,” Mola said.

The games are typically easy to understand, but still have a lot of interaction and strategy. They’re done in about an hour or so. And usually nobody gets eliminated.

“That’s what I always remember from games like Risk. Growing up we’d play it in the Boy Scouts … and it would be an all-night affair. People would get eliminated, so if you were eliminated you did something else or went to bed and the last two people were playing until 4 or 5 o’clock in the morning,” Mola said.

“These games are a lot more quick. You can finish them out and people aren’t eliminated. Once the game’s done, you figure out who won, shake hands and move on to the next one.”

Although the meet ups don’t involve role playing games like Dungeons and Dragons, those who are interested often get together at members houses to play the longer games.

Association members are a diverse group, drawing men and women of all ages. Many of the teens that attend grew up coming to the meet ups as children with their parents.

Mola said one member commented that one of the great things about gaming is “when we you come to the table, you’re all equal.” People from all walks of life play and get to know each other.

“We try to be very inclusive. Everybody’s welcome. If you don’t know much about gaming, that’s fine. We’ll sit down and teach you. We’re going to try to be fair and make sure you have a good time as well,” Mola said.

“It’s not all about winning and stuff like that. It’s not a competition. This is something we enjoy doing and want other people to enjoy it as well.”



northwest Indiana Board Game Association weekly meet ups

When: 6-10 p.m. Mondays

Where: Holiday Inn Express Large Meeting Room, 8460 Mississippi St., Merrillville

Tickets: $5 to pay for room rental. First visit free

When: 6-9 p.m. Wednesdays

Where: Sip Coffee House, 2815 Jewett Ave., Highland

Tickets: free meet up

When: 6-9 p.m. Wednesdays

Where: Sip Coffee House, 310 Main St., Hobart

Tickets: free meet up

Information: boardgamegeek.com/guild/1078 or facebook.com/groups/NWIBGA/
 
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Casual Shinji

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She’s still making her cut though either way, while the actual people who spent years working on the game for far, far, faaaar less are the ones having to endure all the outcries and people shitting on it just because of her. Talk about demoralizing when they’re just doing their jobs, and apparently pretty well considering the consensus of people who’ve bothered to play it.
Maybe, I don't know what the information is on the developers themselves right now, but then developers kinda get treated like shit regardless by the very industry they keep alive. It'd be worth it this game selling well if it meant the people who slaved away on it actually got the earnings. But I doubt that, seeing as this is WB Games.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Maybe, I don't know what the information is on the developers themselves right now, but then developers kinda get treated like shit regardless by the very industry they keep alive. It'd be worth it this game selling well if it meant the people who slaved away on it actually got the earnings. But I doubt that, seeing as this is WB Games.
Decent chance they sell 10 million copies and announce layoffs later this year. Just the way it goes
 

FakeSympathy

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So I decided to check Steam community discussion page for Hogwart's Legacy. And holy crap, it might be more toxic than Chornobyl. Almost no actual game discussion, but one bait topic after another, all of them getting steam awards for some reason

Please, if you want to preserve your sanity, do not visit this section. One person experiencing the horror is enough
 

BrawlMan

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So I decided to check Steam community discussion page for Hogwart's Legacy. And holy crap, it might be more toxic than Chornobyl. Almost no actual game discussion, but one bait topic after another, all of them getting steam awards for some reason

Please, if you want to preserve your sanity, do not visit this section. One person experiencing the horror is enough
I never had any plans of going over there and nothing surprises me. Not the first time something like this has happened. I don't know why Steam gives out rewards for just being a jackass. Valve, your system needs an overhaul.
 
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Absent

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So. My general reflex is this. I expect it to be extremely obvious around here that any member of any community can be a moron, and pointing it out isn't prejudiced per se. Prejudice (homophobia, racism, transphobia) is pointing at the fact that they belong to this minority, as if it was relevant to them being a moron. Or showing a double standard, that is considering the person to be a moron for a thing that would have been forgiven if they didn't belong to that minority. But, basically, when, say, a homosexual person steals a purse, yelling "you filthy homo" instead of "you filthy purse-stealer" is absolutely disqualifying, even if stealing purses is very bad.

But likewise, this "judge actions on the relevant criteria" logic also applies to prejudiced people. A racist person can always be called out for their racism. But when they display a different flaw, it's that different flaw that should be pointed out, and, in particular, when they do something good, that thing should not be disqualified on the ground of its author being otherwise racist. My position is that an author can be simultaneously praised for their anti-war writings and loathed for their anti-semitic writings. Both don't cancel each other out, and one doesn't have to trump the other. Typically, our brain should be able to evaluate a movie independantly from a director's history of rape, and avoid the double lie of either denying/minimizing the rape because of the film's quality, or denying/minimizing the film's quality because of the rape. A director can have very backwards political opinions and endorsements in life, yet make movies that are, in content, oddly more clever, balanced, complex and human than his personal positions. They are different subjects, and one can ponder what to do with them without being dishonest about either. Okay, this might belong to the (burning) hot takes thread.

But all the more when you add some remoteness (indirect relation) or some wider stakes (such as a whole gigantic crew). Judgements don't have to merge or to overlap. Case in point : This videogame is not only remotely related to Rowlings, it's not only the product of a quantity of "innocent" people, it's also detached from what Rowlings is criticized for (as it seems more open-minded about gender than Rowlings is, which may even irritate her).

Cynically, it's like dog training. Positive and negative reinforcements. You cannot chastize someone for something bad and then keep chastizing them whatever they do, good and bad. A person, or even a franchise. This just empties the point of doing good, it erases the difference. It pulls both ends of the rope. And really, it doesn't look motivated by the correct reasons.

And now of course there's the financial argument that I see. But frankly, it cuts both ways. That game, were it not related to Rowlings, could have drawn the ire of conservatives for its character creation options. It would have been, by itself, a respectable step in the good direction for gaming as a whole. Seeing it disqualified for reasons unrelated to content is not only symbollically, culturally, beneficial to conservatives, it also shoots down a game that goes in the correct direction, with the kind of chilling message for the industry that conservatives would have liked to pass. One game does it, goes down in flame. "Financially", which cause, which public discourse, which platform and which production policy does this benefit ?

I'm not sure the money argument is that solid. And outside of it, well, I think the symbolic boycott is just an unhealthy "by association" reflex that illustrates a sort of (self-indulgent) confusion that should be reserved to the conservative mind. In my view, progressives should rise to more accurate, more precise and more complexified worldviews. This should even be their trademark.

I always feel a bit sorry and distressed when I see "progressive" movements function on the same (reductivist) structures of thinking that I reproach to conservatives. And often for the same kind of psychological gain.
 

CriticalGaming

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Cynically, it's like dog training. Positive and negative reinforcements. You cannot chastize someone for something bad and then keep chastizing them whatever they do, good and bad. A person, or even a franchise. This just empties the point of doing good, it erases the difference. It pulls both ends of the rope. And really, it doesn't look motivated by the correct reasons.
This has been a problem with progressive-ism for a long time. When people were complaining about the lack of female lead characters the industry got to a point where at a recent E3 more than 60% of the games shown featured or could feature a female lead character which the feminists still complained about.

It boils down to no matter how much "progress" is made, the goal post is always moved without ever acknowledging the progress being made. It's the "yes but" situation. When someone comes up with a complaint, you resolve that complain, then the person says, "Yes but.....this other complaint" and on and on it goes.

I think the big takeaway from the Hogwarts situation is that people are starting to not accept the constant shifting anymore. Regular people just want to enjoy shit and now they are no longer worried about online screaming that they are bigots because of X,Y,Z, when their behavior has nothing to do with bigotry, or phobias, or whatever the label is.

The other problem with modern activism is the inability to sit down and have an actual conversation about given concerns. Or problems. They tell you, "Supporting Harry Potter supports transphobia and bigotry". How does it do this? Well JK Rowling is apparently transphobic so if you support her work you support her ideals. Which is logic that suggests if you have a smart phone you must support child slave labor because that's how the materials used to make these phones are mined. It all comes from wild claims that nobody can ever show proof of and if you ask for proof, then you're yelled out of the room. It hurts progress, because you can't express real ideas and offer real solutions with anyone.
 
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Hi-Fi Rush Fan Creates 808 Figure Using 3D Printer (gamerant.com)
 
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Absent

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This has been a problem with progressive-ism for a long time. When people were complaining about the lack of female lead characters the industry got to a point where at a recent E3 more than 60% of the games shown featured or could feature a female lead character which the feminists still complained about.

It boils down to no matter how much "progress" is made, the goal post is always moved without ever acknowledging the progress being made. It's the "yes but" situation. When someone comes up with a complaint, you resolve that complain, then the person says, "Yes but.....this other complaint" and on and on it goes.

I think the big takeaway from the Hogwarts situation is that people are starting to not accept the constant shifting anymore. Regular people just want to enjoy shit and now they are no longer worried about online screaming that they are bigots because of X,Y,Z, when their behavior has nothing to do with bigotry, or phobias, or whatever the label is.

The other problem with modern activism is the inability to sit down and have an actual conversation about given concerns. Or problems. They tell you, "Supporting Harry Potter supports transphobia and bigotry". How does it do this? Well JK Rowling is apparently transphobic so if you support her work you support her ideals. Which is logic that suggests if you have a smart phone you must support child slave labor because that's how the materials used to make these phones are mined. It all comes from wild claims that nobody can ever show proof of and if you ask for proof, then you're yelled out of the room. It hurts progress, because you can't express real ideas and offer real solutions with anyone.
I generally agree with that even though I think that "yes but" is exactly what progress is made of. A lot of progressive things from the past are frighteningly backwards from our modern viewpoint, despite their good intent and avant-garde position at the time. This legitimately advance beyond what is considered "good enough" at some point, and there's still a long long journey ahead which is easy to deny. In fact, conservatives are used to re-own the old progresses that they used to fight (either "forgetting" they used to fight it, or claiming it was right to fight it back then and only changed when the circumstances made sense), only to use the as proof that we've advanced sufficiently.

Thing is, they way its done, and the real motive it shows. Often it's just a selfish competition for who will prove themselves more "advanced" than the others. And this mindset makes it difficult to appreciate the progress made, or even the ongoing progress. It's a shame, because 1) it doesn't take anything away from the drive, need, and awareness of further required progress, and 2) it's pretty satisfying to watch conservatives actually lose ground and actually have good reasons to whine.

But also, people like to fight. And the fights they prefer are the fights against their close, familiar neighbours. Right-wing or left-wing, you'll always have the People's Front of Judea and the Judean People's Front at each other's throats.