Germany embassy in Sudan stormed

[awesomeClaw]

Looks like America just found their next war. It's funny because people were advocating the downsizing of the military. Doesn't really seem like a good idea, does it?

first of all, America can roll these guys over wether they downsize their army or not.

What gives you that idea?

First off, the guy was completely justified in making his movie. Was it dumb? Sure. Was it an incredibly stupid message, amplified thousandfold by it´s poor execution? Absolutely. Was it bad? Without a doubt. Was it illegal? No.

Whoever made the video shouldn´t be punished. He´s done nothing wrong(well, except for making a shit movie). All he did was make a movie that was critical of a religion. Punishing him for that would be an affront to both freedom of speech and justice.

Don´t blame the guy who made a movie. Blame the violent extremists killing people over said movie.

Free speech does not mean immunity from outfall caused by said speech. It would be justice if we sent him over there to face the music imo. If he's a big enough man to make the film he should be a big enough man to face the consequences.

You know what, you´re in the right. This guy deserves all the protests and all the hate he can get. They´re completely justified in both hating him and his stupid movie. He should have to take all the criticisms everyone is throwing at him and then some.

But you know what? Screaming that someone is an accursed infidel and saying that both them and their movie are affronts to god himself is a very diffrent thing to killing people, destroying property and causing general chaos. That is not acceptable. That is NEVER acceptable.

By all means, this guy should have to take the criticism and the hate. But you know what he shouldn´t have to take? Death.

 

[Erttheking]

What bothers me is the US government's noncommittal response. By not defending our citizens actions (no matter if we personally agree or not), we are abandoning the freedoms laid forth in our constitution. If citizens of another nation can silence American citizens by protest, violence, and murder, then all that America stands for is truly dead.

Free Speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences.

Then what's the point of it?

Let's examine this...


free/frē/
Adjective:
Not under the control or in the power of another; able to act or be done as one wishes.
Adverb:
Without cost or payment: "ladies were admitted free".
Verb:
Make free, in particular.

speech/spēCH/
Noun:
The expression of or the ability to express thoughts and feelings by articulate sounds.
A person's style of speaking.

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMmmmmm.............................................................

The VERY definition of those words put together, is the exact fucking opposite of what you just said. The very IDEA of free speech is that you can speak without consequences! Seriously?

What he's trying to say is that the government won't persecute you for what you say, but if you call someone a dick and he punches you in the face for it, you can't report him for oppressing your freedom of speech. You persecute him for assault.

 

[Ithera]

Anti western sentiments run high i many Islamic countries.Religious Demagogues and firebrands are just waiting for a reason (no matter how trivial) to rile up their following. In these cases all one can hope for is that the host country can provide protection for the Embassy in question.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

What bothers me is the US government's noncommittal response. By not defending our citizens actions (no matter if we personally agree or not), we are abandoning the freedoms laid forth in our constitution. If citizens of another nation can silence American citizens by protest, violence, and murder, then all that America stands for is truly dead.

Free Speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences.

Then what's the point of it?

Let's examine this...


free/frē/
Adjective:
Not under the control or in the power of another; able to act or be done as one wishes.
Adverb:
Without cost or payment: "ladies were admitted free".
Verb:
Make free, in particular.

speech/spēCH/
Noun:
The expression of or the ability to express thoughts and feelings by articulate sounds.
A person's style of speaking.

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMmmmmm.............................................................

The VERY definition of those words put together, is the exact fucking opposite of what you just said. The very IDEA of free speech is that you can speak without consequences! Seriously?

Freedom of speech lets you say what you want. The government won't interfere.

Won't stop you from getting your arsed kicked if you walk into a neighbourhood populated by black people and start talking about how much you 'hate niggers.'

Like I said, freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences.

 

[Dogstile]

Could the maker of this film be arrested and convicted of murder?

Sure, if the maker of this film went out and killed a guy.

Of course not, the only thing he's guilty of is making a film. Its not his fault people looked at the film he made and decided to kill people over it.

 

[Th37thTrump3t]

I think it's more likely Washington will rise from his grave and reiterate the fallacy of a two-party system at this point

And Jesus fucking Christ is it a huge fallacy.

OT: This is why you don't let religion run a country. Now because these radicals are "acting in behalf of their religion", their government will just let it happen. Nationalized religion is a very dangerous thing.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

What bothers me is the US government's noncommittal response. By not defending our citizens actions (no matter if we personally agree or not), we are abandoning the freedoms laid forth in our constitution. If citizens of another nation can silence American citizens by protest, violence, and murder, then all that America stands for is truly dead.

Free Speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences.

Then what's the point of it?

Let's examine this...


free/frē/
Adjective:
Not under the control or in the power of another; able to act or be done as one wishes.
Adverb:
Without cost or payment: "ladies were admitted free".
Verb:
Make free, in particular.

speech/spēCH/
Noun:
The expression of or the ability to express thoughts and feelings by articulate sounds.
A person's style of speaking.

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMmmmmm.............................................................

The VERY definition of those words put together, is the exact fucking opposite of what you just said. The very IDEA of free speech is that you can speak without consequences! Seriously?

Freedom of speech lets you say what you want. The government won't interfere.

Won't stop you from getting your arsed kicked if you walk into a neighbourhood populated by black people and start talking about how much you 'hate niggers.'

Like I said, freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences.

Uh... No.

In your hypothetical scenario the black people attacking the bigot don't believe in free speech, hence they're censoring him by beating him down.

Your consequence argument only holds merit in scenarios where, say a person on the radio says "I Hate Niggers" and the backlash against him forces the radio station owners to drop him from the air waves. That's an acceptable consequence.

But the moment a group of people decide to MURDER someone over their speech, that's not a consequence yo. That's a bunch of nutjobs acting as ENEMIES of free speech.

 

[JeffBergGold]

free/frē/
Adjective:
Not under the control or in the power of another; able to act or be done as one wishes.

Being able to do as one wishes does not mean immunity to incurring consequences.

You're free to insult someone you're not under their control or power. However, they are also free to retaliate.

Adverb:
Without cost or payment:

Without cost or payment is referring to monetary payment.

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMmmmmm.............................................................

The VERY definition of those words put together, is the exact fucking opposite of what you just said. The very IDEA of free speech is that you can speak without consequences! Seriously?

I get what you're trying to do but you need to advance your mastery of the English language a little bit more first. You get an A for effort though!

Looks like America just found their next war. It's funny because people were advocating the downsizing of the military. Doesn't really seem like a good idea, does it?

first of all, America can roll these guys over wether they downsize their army or not.

What gives you that idea?

First off, the guy was completely justified in making his movie. Was it dumb? Sure. Was it an incredibly stupid message, amplified thousandfold by it´s poor execution? Absolutely. Was it bad? Without a doubt. Was it illegal? No.

Whoever made the video shouldn´t be punished. He´s done nothing wrong(well, except for making a shit movie). All he did was make a movie that was critical of a religion. Punishing him for that would be an affront to both freedom of speech and justice.

Don´t blame the guy who made a movie. Blame the violent extremists killing people over said movie.

Free speech does not mean immunity from outfall caused by said speech. It would be justice if we sent him over there to face the music imo. If he's a big enough man to make the film he should be a big enough man to face the consequences.

You know what, you´re in the right. This guy deserves all the protests and all the hate he can get. They´re completely justified in both hating him and his stupid movie. He should have to take all the criticisms everyone is throwing at him and then some.

But you know what? Screaming that someone is an accursed infidel and saying that both them and their movie are affronts to god himself is a very diffrent thing to killing people, destroying property and causing general chaos. That is not acceptable. That is NEVER acceptable.

By all means, this guy should have to take the criticism and the hate. But you know what he shouldn´t have to take? Death.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree. I'm not saying he should die but he should face his critics instead of cowering. His actions have caused the death of others who had nothing to do with the film. At the very least he should be sent over to quell the violence that he has started. As I stated before if he had the gumption to make the film he should be ready to take the consequences. Honestly, it just makes him look like a coward in my book.

"I wanna do things but I don't wanna be accountable!" What is he a child?

 

[saruman31]

After i heard Hillary`s speech i felt a great sadness but was also rolling on the floor. I can`t believe the US went all like: oh please we no mean harm. islam good religion. islam religion of peace.
So pretty much when islam is involved there is no freedom of speech.

 

[gigastar]

It's disgusting how easily a peaceful religion can get twisted and corrupted like this. Hopefully cooler-heads prevail and they can calm the radicals down.

Im sorry to say i think its beyond the help of the level-headed at this point. I mean, theyre attacking British and German embassies despite that no EU country is connected to the film in question.

Not to mention that the entire Muslim world is pissed at this. By the time you posted there was already protests in London over this. It was a peaceful protest, but it was only a couple of hundred Muslims and theese things have a way of escalating.

Also the guy responsible for the film, surely he can be arrested for disturbing the peace. Its not every day someone manages to piss off half a continent after all.

 

[awesomeClaw]

free/frē/
Adjective:
Not under the control or in the power of another; able to act or be done as one wishes.

Being able to do as one wishes does not mean not incurring consequences.

You're free to insult someone you're not under their control or power. However, they are also free to retaliate.

Adverb:
Without cost or payment:

Without cost or payment is referring to monetary payment.

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMmmmmm.............................................................

The VERY definition of those words put together, is the exact fucking opposite of what you just said. The very IDEA of free speech is that you can speak without consequences! Seriously?

I get what you're trying to do but you need to advance your mastery of the English language a little bit more first. You get an A for effort though!

Looks like America just found their next war. It's funny because people were advocating the downsizing of the military. Doesn't really seem like a good idea, does it?

first of all, America can roll these guys over wether they downsize their army or not.

What gives you that idea?

First off, the guy was completely justified in making his movie. Was it dumb? Sure. Was it an incredibly stupid message, amplified thousandfold by it´s poor execution? Absolutely. Was it bad? Without a doubt. Was it illegal? No.

Whoever made the video shouldn´t be punished. He´s done nothing wrong(well, except for making a shit movie). All he did was make a movie that was critical of a religion. Punishing him for that would be an affront to both freedom of speech and justice.

Don´t blame the guy who made a movie. Blame the violent extremists killing people over said movie.

Free speech does not mean immunity from outfall caused by said speech. It would be justice if we sent him over there to face the music imo. If he's a big enough man to make the film he should be a big enough man to face the consequences.

You know what, you´re in the right. This guy deserves all the protests and all the hate he can get. They´re completely justified in both hating him and his stupid movie. He should have to take all the criticisms everyone is throwing at him and then some.

But you know what? Screaming that someone is an accursed infidel and saying that both them and their movie are affronts to god himself is a very diffrent thing to killing people, destroying property and causing general chaos. That is not acceptable. That is NEVER acceptable.

By all means, this guy should have to take the criticism and the hate. But you know what he shouldn´t have to take? Death.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree. I'm not saying he should die but he should face his critics instead of cowering. His actions have caused the death of others who had nothing to do with the film. At the very least he should be sent over to quell the violence that he has started. As I stated before if he had the gumption to make the film he should be ready to take the consequences. Honestly, it just makes him look like a coward in my book.

"I wanna do things but I don't wanna be accountable!" What is he a child?

I see your point. But this is one of those cases where he simply cannot just come out and try to quell the whole thing. If he comes out, I guarantee that within 2 weeks someone will have made an attempt on his life.

We have witness protection, don´t we? This is roughly the same thing. Guy said X about group Y. Now group Y seeks to kill him. X goes into hiding. I agree he should face the criticism, but since in this case it could mean facing death, I understand his hesitation.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

What bothers me is the US government's noncommittal response. By not defending our citizens actions (no matter if we personally agree or not), we are abandoning the freedoms laid forth in our constitution. If citizens of another nation can silence American citizens by protest, violence, and murder, then all that America stands for is truly dead.

Free Speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences.

Then what's the point of it?

Let's examine this...


free/frē/
Adjective:
Not under the control or in the power of another; able to act or be done as one wishes.
Adverb:
Without cost or payment: "ladies were admitted free".
Verb:
Make free, in particular.

speech/spēCH/
Noun:
The expression of or the ability to express thoughts and feelings by articulate sounds.
A person's style of speaking.

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMmmmmm.............................................................

The VERY definition of those words put together, is the exact fucking opposite of what you just said. The very IDEA of free speech is that you can speak without consequences! Seriously?

Freedom of speech lets you say what you want. The government won't interfere.

Won't stop you from getting your arsed kicked if you walk into a neighbourhood populated by black people and start talking about how much you 'hate niggers.'

Like I said, freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences.

Uh... No.

In your hypothetical scenario the black people attacking the bigot don't believe in free speech, hence they're censoring him by beating him down.

Your consequence argument only holds merit in scenarios where, say a person on the radio says "I Hate Niggers" and the backlash against him forces the radio station owners to drop him from the air waves. That's an acceptable consequence.

But the moment a group of people decide to MURDER someone over their speech, that's not a consequence yo. That's a bunch of nutjobs acting as ENEMIES of free speech.

I never said the response would be justified

Just that's not an infallible defence to say what you want, when you want.

 

[Tanis]

It's disgusting how easily a peaceful religion can get twisted and corrupted like this. Hopefully cooler-heads prevail and they can calm the radicals down.

You've never read the Qur'an/Koran if you think it's "peaceful".

These folks are not different then Christan lynch mobs were back in the Dark Ages or Puritans back in 'the old times'.

What the M.E. needs is to remove their theocracies and put in secular governments.

 

[zehydra]

free/frē/
Adjective:
Not under the control or in the power of another; able to act or be done as one wishes.

Being able to do as one wishes does not mean immunity to incurring consequences.

You're free to insult someone you're not under their control or power. However, they are also free to retaliate.

No, they are not free to retaliate in this manner. They are free to retaliate in a manner which falls under "speech" (protests), but they are not free to kill anyone as part of said retaliation.

Part of "freedom of speech" also guarantees that no physical harm will come to the speaker.

 

[zehydra]

It's disgusting how easily a peaceful religion can get twisted and corrupted like this. Hopefully cooler-heads prevail and they can calm the radicals down.

You've never read the Qur'an/Koran if you think it's "peaceful".

These folks are not different then Christan lynch mobs were back in the Dark Ages or Puritans back in 'the old times'.

What the M.E. needs is to remove their theocracies and put in secular governments.

They just removed their secular governments...

what needs to happen is a middle eastern cultural revolution (and no, I'm not referrign to the Chinese one).

Radical Islam as a regional ideology has brought more international strife than it should be allowed to, IMO.

Of course the problem is that there is no clear way to eradicate radicalism. The US is in no good position to do something like that.

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

So what these protesters are saying is: "Look at me! I'm so offended I can't control my emotions so I demand that you do it for me! Also deep down I know my religion is bullshit and my god doesn't exist, because he's not doing anything about this but I'm still filled with mindless rage! Look at me! I'm a moronic religious extremist and I'm proud of my idiocy!"

 

[Goofguy]

There has to be more than this than just the movie. Sure, it's a big reason but these protests coinciding with 9/11 makes me think there is more than meets the eye.

 

[JeffBergGold]

Part of "freedom of speech" also guarantees that no physical harm will come to the speaker.

Since when? This is news to me. I'd really like you to site a reputable source for this one because I'm genuinely curious as to where this is stated in the amendment.

Even if it did it still falls under the offense principle which removes any social protections that his free speech rights granted.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/freedom-speech/#MilHarPriHatSpe

 

[MammothBlade]

Of course I do. The violent mob are primarily at fault, and I strongly side with the ideals of free speech and secularism over theocratic censorship and religious violence.

Define "hate speech". It is likely not what you think it is. And also, I, like you am a Brit, so I wouldn't exactly be wrapping them in stars and stripes. This goes beyond nationalism.

Then I will apologise for mistaken identity of nationality.

Yes the mob are responsible but you're shielding the spark that ignited the flames.
This is cause and effect and you can't overlook one to condemn the other, an anti-islamic film like the one created by the director is most definitely hate speech.

It didn't have to end this way. Sorry but one man's free expression should not be criminalised or blamed for these actions on principle. There are many ways this could have gone, but because some people are too blind to see beyond their religion they chose to take out their anger on innocent people. There was a similar reaction to the Mohammed cartoons, a violent and disproportionate outrage. This is not to say he shouldn't be criticised and held accountable for the contents of the film, but it is not his fault that a bunch of Muslims reacted in such a way. People have a right to be angry - they don't have the right to burn down buildings and kill because of it, and blaming him is in some way legitimising the reaction of the violent mob.

You can't have it both ways. Either free speech is protected or this sort of religious violence is justified.

Free speech does not mean immunity from outfall caused by said speech. It would be justice if we sent him over there to face the music imo. If he's a big enough man to make the film he should be a big enough man to face the consequences.

Yeah right, because instead of stoning him to death and dragging his carcass around the streets they'll actually listen to what he has to say.

That would be the worst form of betrayal, it sounds almost as if you're justifying religious violence in some way.

Suppose that what he actually said was something 100% truthful and which you personally agreed with, would it still be justified to send him off to the middle east to face his doom because someone took offence?

"I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

 

[Something Amyss]

Free Speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences.

This is America, where free speech means "I can say what I want and screw everyone else!"

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