Daystar Clarion said:
omicron1 said:
Daystar Clarion said:
omicron1 said:
What bothers me is the US government's noncommittal response. By not defending our citizens actions (no matter if we personally agree or not), we are abandoning the freedoms laid forth in our constitution. If citizens of another nation can silence American citizens by protest, violence, and murder, then all that America stands for is truly dead.
Free Speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences.
This is not a consequence. This is a violent mob response to an "offensive" video (from a group who get murderous if you even DRAW He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Insulted). This is an American making a (poorly-produced) protected statement, and being thrown to the wolves in order to appease those same wolves.
In essence, the US is saying "These people's request that you not insult Islam matters more to us than your freedom of speech or expression."
Put it this way.
I child is poking a sleeping bear with a stick.
Now that child has all the right in the world to poke that bear with said stick.
Just don't be surprised when the bear wakes up and mauls him.
Freedom of speech isn't some infallible defence to say what you want. I'm sick of people claiming that it is, and that any action taken against someone because of what they said is impeding their 'rights'.
Okay, lots of problems here. and I stress that all referances to the perpetrators are aimed at the perpetrators only.
First, much as, apparently, people of both sides like to deny it, Muslims are people, not animals. This may sound like I'm teaching you to suck eggs, but these rioters, they chose to do this, they are human beings and they chose to attack an embasy and kill. They are not a force of nature, they are not a nessecary equal reaction, they are responsible for their actions. This means that if they respond negatively to someone exercising their rights across the globe, that is not a consequence, that is a fucking atrocity. The fact that you seem to think that muslims are just stimulus-reaction without any thought in the matter reeks of 'oh they're just muslims, they don't know any better'
Second, I was not aware that the filmaker was in any of these embassies, I mean, Personally, if I was going to play it off as the consequences of free speech, I would ensure that the person who actually had the audacity to say something someone else didn't like was the one who was 'punished' for his 'crime' and not some innocent people just doing their job.
Third, Freedom of speech, you claim that it isn't some infallible defence to say what you want, well, under certain circumstances, it isn't. It isn't a defence to be corrected, or a defence against being called a fuckwit, or peacefully protested against. It is however, a defence against harm. If you are harming, or threatening to harm someone for saying something that you dissaprove of, then you are definately breaching their human rights. That is the cearest redline imaginable, you cannot kill someone for saying something you dissaprove of. Think of it this way, if the government went in and started firing rockets at occupy wall street and attempting to gun down the protesters, and then tried to claim that, 'while they had freedom of speech, they were not protected from the consequences' would you be ok with that. Of course even then the it would be 'punishing' the occupy protesters for something they actually did, unlike the embasy staff.
Fourth, for something to be a provocation, it has to be something that a reasonable person would respond negatively to, and the degree of provocation also has to stand up to that metric. For example, I don't like being poked with sticks, you don't like being poked with sticks, it is a reasonable reaction to have, moving down, I don't like it when someone takes my parking spot, that is reasonable, but then it would not be reasonable to let the red mist descend and fire rockets into a crowd of innocent people. This film would be a reasonable provocation for a peaceful protest and a boycott of cinemas that showed it, but, and I can't stress this enough, not enough to attempt to use force of arms to silence people who made a shitty movie that you don't like.