- May 10, 2008
I don't think it matters too much to be honest, like you said, that's why our laws differ, why we'll never understand how laws work over there and why you'll never understand how laws work over here. For example my debate with someone a few months ago regarding the use of guns and how he believed it was stupid we didn't have the rights to freely have guns over here in the UK, to which I replied that we didn't need guns. We grew up in a different society whereby the use of guns is seen as taboo, unnecessary. Which is why we didn't resort to rubber / plastic bullets to tame our riots a few months ago, it was simply seen as inhumane / brutal in our eyes.zehydra said:I never denied that she was breaking any laws. I was merely stating that she shouldn't be. That is, it is my opinion that there is a problem with a law which states that you can be arrested for inciting one person to act violently against you, regardless of context.MelasZepheos said:Well actually I suppose it doesn't matter what you or even I think, because the law is very clear.zehydra said:No, it is not worthy of arrest. They can and should however keep her off the train if they want. If she refuses then, they should be able to arrest her on the grounds of trespassing (or some kind of other law you want to enact that deals directly with this issue)MelasZepheos said:So you don't think that verbally abusing someone on the grounds of race in public is worthy of arrest? She not only insulted and attacked anyone on the train who wasn't white, but she also directly abused at least one black woman. We have laws about public disruption specifically to deal with people like this.zehydra said:oh and out of the woodwork they came...Vanguard_Ex said:She doesn't have an interesting opinion. She has a rampantly racist opinion and thinks that countless people who have put more into my country than she ever will should leave based on their skin colour. End of.
Edit: And before they crawl out the woodwork, no, she is not protected by freedom of speech. She deserved to be arrested and the police have every justification to punish her.
I don't know if it's illegal to be racist in Britain, but it doesn't really make sense to arrest somebody because they say something which offends somebody in a public setting, since that would be a slippery slope with no well-defined end to it.
I do think that the public transportation system should be allowed to kick her off the train though.
It is illegal to be racist in Britain, and before you counter with 'America land of the free', they have laws about public order disruption and racism in America too.
Otherwise it would be entirely legal to say whatever you wanted in public, and that would be absurd.
Under the Racial and Religious Hatred Act 2006, the laws regarding breaches of the peace and disorderly conduct, this woman should be arrested. (UK)
If she was in America, then under whatever the state had as a law about disorderly conduct as well as racial relations laws she would be arrested.
What you think doesn't matter at all, because the rule of law both for America and Britain is clear. She incited racial hatred, she disrupted the peace, and she was guilty of disorderly conduct. Would you like me to find more laws she was guilty of breaking?
I don't really care too much about racial laws in Britain since the racial situation over there is quite different than it is over here.
Its the same with verbal abuse in public domains, its not that freedom of speech is restricted, at least not in our eyes, because we in the UK are very good at expressing how angry we are when we don't like something, probably more so than most countries, that's why some countries think we get away with murder, but no matter how much we explain that, I guess it would be difficult for someone from the US to understand that brought up under different circumstances, rules and laws. She had every right to express her opinion, and in a typical situation people would have ignored her and deemed her a drug addict or something of the sort spouting off nonsense, but when she got personal, using fingers to point and specifically looking at those she was abusing, people rightfully took offense.
She was arrested not for speaking her mind, believe me, people do that every day here, you get used to it, but for being incredibly abusive, inciting racial hatred and for swearing, provoking aggression towards her fellow travelers.
Now bear in mind that she was only "arrested", not locked up. The most she will get is a slap on the hand and told not to do it again, its hardly worthy of putting her in prison for, giving her an asbo or making her do community service, it was a one off. But if she kept it up or even used physical violence towards another, she would be put behind bars.
To me, that's a civilized society.