Ghostbusters Director Calls Out "Assholes in Geek Culture"

[Roboshi]

Despite not a single example of that coming from the director, studio or marketing.

Yeah, that point really has legs to stand on.

apart from the subtext of this entire news story the thread is based on? This is a case of the director using this amazing technique called "not telling people what he's actually doing while quite obviously doing it".

 

[WeepingAngels]

What important information would that be? You want me to define who feminists are? I provided a link already to feminists protesting.

Protesting Milo. Information so irrelevant to the situation that even you edited it out of your copy-paste quote, presumably out of embarrassment.

So yeah:

Seeing as though Milo represents all white men to you, what do you consider a feminist? I take it's just "people you disagree with"? Or is it just people that talk about women in a positive light?

Ok, let's take this one step at a time. Do try to keep up and if you don't intend to answer the question this time, then I won't be responding anymore.

1) I asked if you thought that feminists would be raising hell if the film had 4 white men as the Ghostbusters?

2) Then I posted a link to show feminists "raising hell" over something as small as a Milo speaking. If that causes them to raise hell, then surely a multi-million dollar movie would too.

3) You tried to avoid the question by concentrating on Milo so I asked again.

4) You then ask for my definition of feminists and I pointed you to the link that I had already provided. If you didn't connect the simple dots, THOSE ARE FEMINISTS!

5) You go back to talking about Milo.

6) I am asking again: You don't think the feminists would be raising hell if the film had 4 white men as the Ghostbusters?

 

[RicoADF]

"Look at that nest of angry hornets, what would happen if I started bugging the hornets? Why are the hornets stinging me now? It must just be the asshole hornets."

Maybe don't sell your movie as a heartless cash grab then you won't feel the sting.

Couldn't have said it better myself, if their going to use a much loved IP for a new comedy they had best make sure it fits the bill or it'll get all the condemnation it deserves, regardless of what gender the actors are. Frankly I doubt anyone could fill the massive shoes that the original cast left, but this movie certainly hasn't helped itself with some of the dumbest marketing I have seen. I still don't know if this is a sequel or reboot, when simple questions like that are still unanswered it's not a good sign.

It's true that the geek community can be quite toxic at times (just like everything else on the internet), but the trailer also failed to endear your movie to us. In which case I suggest you fire your marketing department.

That's what it really comes down to, the marketing department failed horribly. Hell within 24hrs a fan remix made a far better trailer that would have had me excited for the movie if it had of been the official one.

 

[WeepingAngels]

Really, because you failed to put up any links to validate your position in the first place. Demanding sources is a classic tactic of invalidating an argument without actually arguing aginst it.

You called people misogynists. I asked if you knew for certain that the people you were calling misogynists actually were. I can't imagine what links you want from me.

I agreed with you on the "girl power" thing, you twisted that into a strawman to discredit my argument without actually addressing it. Again the "girl power" trope is a stereotype used to move goal posts to favor females.

I didn't address your argument because I couldn't understand exactly what you were saying, I even said this:

I don't what the fuck your last paragaph is going on about but I think you are saying that I used the term "girl power" as some sort of attack against you. Well, if that's the case then I'll explain a little better.

So then I proceeded to explain my position again. If you are confused, I wasn't aiming my dislike of "girl power" at you, it was a general statement and I also dislike "boy power" should it ever come to be used.

Next you spray an internet MRA talking point. Somehow conflating casting choices with sexism, because reasons, without addressing the fact that I'm fine with people making casting choices based on the characters as written. So that's another worthless strawman you fabricated from thin air.

If you are fine with people making casting choices based on how the characters as written then I guess it's ok for a writer to purposely write all of his scripts with ONLY white male leads in mind? No diversity is an ok thing for you? Well, I disagree with that. Note that I have not called you any names.

I hope this has cleared up how you're putting words in my mouth, accusing me of sexism, while being overall intellectually dishonest on the subject.

This sentence make no sense to me. Let's start with the sexism claim, where did I accuse you of sexism?

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

You know I might give a few squirts of piss about how badly fans of the Ghostbusters feel about this if I hadn't already danced this fandango wth Transformers in '07 and been basically told to take my turbo-nerd self elsewhere.

 

[Zontar]

I think it's funny anyone tries to pretend there wasn't a political agenda behind the movie. I mean they do realize that the internal emails from Sony that got leaked included those regarding this movie right? Sure it wasn't as bad as having the all-female Spider-Man spinoff have the working title 'Glass Ceiling', but it was pretty blatant that this was made specifically as an all-female Ghostbusters reboot at its conception.

You take a beloved movie by many that's a classic which consistently gets brought back to theatres doing movie festivals (hell I saw it back in February of this year in a theatre) and you made a reboot which instantly ticks off fans, make a terrible trailer that ticks off general audiences, make the black woman be street smarts which ticks off half of the only audience this movie appeals to, and then you turn around and call everyone who dislikes the terrible product a sexist despite the fact everyone and their dogs knows that that being true of 1% of those who dislike it is more then likely a large overestimate.

This seems like another desperate move on the part of someone involved in this, likely because he knows his career could very likely end as a result of this train-wreak.

 

[Viking]

Turning a cultclassic into a sexist cashgrab and then going on a crusade against the supposed targetaudience (which happens to be troll-land) is a bad idea.

I can not wait for his tears when he inevitably flops and have to start blaming the evil geeks.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

What I will never understand is why they chose this route since they could have made a sequel based around the Extreme Ghostbusters cartoon from the 90's/2000's.

Nice ethnic cross section of modern New York, retained a connection to the old crew since Egon and Janine ran the show - though that would need to be changed now due to the passing of Harold Ramis - but taking the concept into some newer (definitely more horrorshow) directions while never stopping being about Ghostbusting. Seems a missed opportunity to me.

 

[Zhukov]

I mean, he's not wrong. "Geek culture" does indeed house some of the most bitter and petty bastards on the planet.

As does any other culture, realistically. Again I wonder: Why make the distinction? I've never seen a mob of geeks riot, loot, and nearly burn down a city block, just because Batman V Superman was bad. But I have seen football fans do such a thing when their team loses. So why aren't we claiming sports culture houses some of the most bitter and petty (and dangerous) bastards on the planet?

People are assholes. I don't know why we can't accept that without trying to apply some kind of scapegoat-y reductionist filter on it.

What luck, I recently addressed this in another thread on a similar topic. I even made the same comparison with sports riots.

So I'm just going to be a lazy bastard and quote myself:

I like a lot of the stuff it produces.

I do not so much like a lot of the people it produces.

I love the idea of the underdog as much as the next person, but the reality isn't quite so sympathetic.

Turns out, if you gather up the outcasts, the misfits and the maladjusted and mash them all together the outcome actually isn't all that pretty. You get a whole lot of unhealthy, unhappy, immature, terminally bitter folks of questionable mental condition who never got over being bullied in high school and have chosen to define themselves by their preferences in entertainment media.

Many of them probably ended up the way they are through no fault of their own, but that doesn't make the end result any less unpleasant to be around.

This isn't to say "geek culture" is somehow worse than other cultures. I mean, people fucking die in riots over sport. It just means geek culture has its own brand of awfulness which I refuse to tolerate just because no corpses have shown up with "fake geek girl" etched into their foreheads... yet.

Thing is, "at least they don't start riots and kill people" isn't really a defense.

As someone else pointed out, the Westboro Baptist Church hasn't killed anybody either. Does that make them not awful?

If I complain that I have a bad toothache and you reply "Well at least you aren't starving to death", does my toothache go away?

And yes, sports culture does indeed house some right petty, violent fuckers. I assumed this was widely known.

 

[SecondPrize]

So he get's to gamble on setting representation in Hollywood back five years when his film turns out to be absolute shit but the people pointing out the smell wafting from it are the ones who are assholes. Fuck you too, Feig.

 

[Davroth]

Thing is, "at least they don't start riots and kill people" isn't really a defense.

As someone else pointed out, the Westboro Baptist Church hasn't killed anybody either. Does that make them not awful?

If I complain that I have a bad toothache and you reply "Well at least you aren't starving to death", does my toothache go away?

And yes, sports culture does indeed house some right petty, violent fuckers. I assumed this was widely known.

I'm sorry, you are comparing geek culture to the Westboro Baptist Church? Don't you think that's just the tiniest bit hyperbolic?

 

[Zhukov]

Thing is, "at least they don't start riots and kill people" isn't really a defense.

As someone else pointed out, the Westboro Baptist Church hasn't killed anybody either. Does that make them not awful?

If I complain that I have a bad toothache and you reply "Well at least you aren't starving to death", does my toothache go away?

And yes, sports culture does indeed house some right petty, violent fuckers. I assumed this was widely known.

I'm sorry, you are comparing geek culture to the Westboro Baptist Church? Don't you think that's just the tiniest bit hyperbolic?

To compare is not necessarily to wholly equate. But I suspect you know that already.

I am comparing them only so far as they both can be awful to people without killing anybody and pointing out their lack of body counts does not excuse their respective awfulness. Which was the first thing I said in the section you quoted, and presumably read.

If the comparison upsets you I'm sure I can come up with something else. Let's see...

If I were to bully, harass and stalk a workmate that would be a bad thing, yes? If someone were to call me out on my horrible behaviour and I were to reply, "Hey, I didn't kill anyone", would you consider that a sound and successful defense of my conduct?

 

[AstaresPanda]

He's obviously reacting based on his feelings and lashing out because he's created what looks to be a massive failure. There's no honesty in what he says, he has jack shit to back him up and he'll forever be remembered as the guy who destroyed Ghostbusters.

Enjoy yourself Fieg, you've made your own bed on this one.

Also it's a good example of what happens when you mess with the hobbyist/geek/nerd/gamer communities. We're probably the worst treated demographic in history and it's extremely rare that we ever get actual apologies. Yeah, we can be toxic and petty but it doesn't take much to get on our good side either.

Pretty much right. When you have grown up getting alot of shit over the things you like and now all of a sudden those things you like are now popular, which is not a bad thing but when those same kinda assholes who gave you shit about it is all of a sudden all over it now its popular and screwing it up at the same time to pander and water it down to suit them. Ofcourse the salt is going to rise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-Iz1wRR01c good old foamy. said it best.

 

[Something Amyss]

When was the last time there was a riot because geeks weren't happy about something?

You're shifting the goalposts. You're conflating severity of an action with frequency. That you can point to a smaller group doing worse things doesn't validate the "I don't know why people single out geeks as (insert pejorative here)," unless said pejorative is rioters.

Meanwhile, a certain subset of geeks has been having a temper tantrum for five straight years now. It shouldn't be hard to see why geeks are singled out.

No football fan has ever doxed me for not liking their team, and I'd be surprised to find there were more than a couple of cases of this ever. Meanwhile, there are geek culture sites that actively promote it. It's a routine event, unlike rioting.

Accuracy in relation to the comics, not reality.

For that to need clarification implies you thought I didn't think black people exist in the real world. I'm curious as to why you would even answer in such a fashion. In short, yes. Accuracy compared to the comics. Because the movies weren't. None of them.

Also, your argument against Feig is one people use against supporters of trans rights. I hope you understand how hard you're shooting yourself in the foot by validating such reasoning.

Because those trailers aren't as awful as Ghostbusters trailer.

You'd never know it from the histrionics surrounding them.

 

[Saelune]

Accuracy in relation to the comics, not reality.

For that to need clarification implies you thought I didn't think black people exist in the real world. I'm curious as to why you would even answer in such a fashion. In short, yes. Accuracy compared to the comics. Because the movies weren't. None of them.

Also, your argument against Feig is one people use against supporters of trans rights. I hope you understand how hard you're shooting yourself in the foot by validating such reasoning.

You made it seem like you thought I was upset at the idea of a man who can turn himself on fire and fly as being something realistically inaccurate. So whatever you actually meant was not apparent to me. Also elaborate how what I said is againt trans rights? Id be upset if The Human Torch was turned into a trans character too, since he isn't. I would rather a new transgender character be made and be a good character in their own right rather than just turn someone else into a transgender poster...person for progressiveness.

 

[runic knight]

So, the response to having a soulless cashgrab remake in the same vein of countless other soulless cashgrab remakes that people hated and called out for being soulless cashgrab remakes... is to throw a tantrum, blame the nebulous "assholes geeks" scapegoat that is popular to blame nowadays (usually by people who latched onto the geek and nerd culture for profit anyways), and pretend it didn't have various legitimate criticisms. Got to ignore the lack of heart on display, the trailer being complete shit, and the exploitative use of the lead's gender to deflect criticism and attack anyone who doesn't like the film.

Truly, this is the proper way to handle the fact your movie looks like crap. Yup, you gotta blame the audience, side with people calling the ones disliking it sexist, and ignore just how sick people have long since gotten of remakes and reboots of beloved franchises in general. That will make your movie not suck.

 

[sumanoskae]

His point is well taken, but I would point out that Ghostbusters doesn't really qualify as "Geek" culture anymore than Mario or Zelda does.

The only people who still consider these things niche are the ones who can never shut up about how against the grain and special they are for being into "Nerdy" stuff; the kind of insecure social parasites who think of their identity not as an organic result of their personality and circumstance, but as something to be synthesized and worn like a suit.

I stress this because while I agree that a great deal of the hatred this particular movie received likely has to do with it's female cast, vilifying groups instead of individuals is one of the corner stones of prejudice.

Every sufficiently sized group of people in history has had it's fair share of assholes; that's what happens when you categorize people based on arbitrary characteristics instead of the continent of their character as individuals.

 

[klaynexas3]

When was the last time there was a riot because geeks weren't happy about something?

You're shifting the goalposts. You're conflating severity of an action with frequency. That you can point to a smaller group doing worse things doesn't validate the "I don't know why people single out geeks as (insert pejorative here)," unless said pejorative is rioters.

Meanwhile, a certain subset of geeks has been having a temper tantrum for five straight years now. It shouldn't be hard to see why geeks are singled out.

No football fan has ever doxed me for not liking their team, and I'd be surprised to find there were more than a couple of cases of this ever. Meanwhile, there are geek culture sites that actively promote it. It's a routine event, unlike rioting.

When did I set the goalpost at frequency? I never mentioned frequency, so it's hardly shifting of a goalpost when it was my initial intent to begin with, and yes, I will use it to validate asking why geeks are seen as somehow worse than other cultural groups on the sole fact that there are other cultural groups that act and do far worse things in the name of their cultural group. If higher frequency is what you require to say whether a culture is bad or not, then I suppose that's fair enough for you, but that's not how I see it. It's not hard to see why geeks could be singled out by some people, I just don't agree with it that the geek community is somehow the cesspool of humanity. I'm not saying that that's what you're saying, I'm just saying that there are plenty of people that act like that.

My whole point is simply people on the whole are assholes and that the geek community isn't conducive of it anymore than other cultures on the whole. Yes, geeks are probably worse on the whole than a few other cultures, but there are also plenty of other cultures that are absolutely worse than geeks. I think it's problematic to single out geek culture because it fails to realize that almost any culture is a conducive environment for assholes. If we're going to look at different cultures for issues that happen within them, then yes, singling out geek culture is a problem because it gives other assholes a pass because they aren't in geek culture. I'm not saying that that means we as a community shouldn't look at what the issue is and work on it, I just think it's interesting that by looking at the issue, most people tend to think that means the entire community is a lost cause and must be removed off the earth.

Upon finishing writing this, it's becoming easier to see why people aren't a fan of the geek community. Often times it's the community they run into the most, at least the ones that would visit the sites I would visit, or say the director of this film, and so they're very likely to run into more assholes that are geeks than any other kind of asshole. Asshole geeks are abundant, it's and issue, and it's not hard to see why they do get singled out, I just don't agree that it's something that should be done. The community should be called out when its inhabitants are being assholes, but I don't agree that it should be treated as though it harbors more awful people on average than other communities. Maybe this isn't the discussion to be bringing up in this thread, maybe I'm just turning this into some pissing contest going "well other people can be just as bad," so I'll bow out of this part of the discussion.

 

[Naldan]

Theater?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/black-hermione-harry-potter-play_us_56784a40e4b014efe0d6389c

I mean how come it's always geek culture that has a problem with writers writing something or even worse; women and minorities.

Fans of SciFi are often considered geeks, just for liking SciFi. So you have authors writing SciFi. What else should they do when they write, right? Then you've fans outraged by all kinds of things.

I for example have massive problems with plot holes and inconsistencies. I also am a big fan of Dragon Ball.

I'd be really confused/angry if Son Goku (protagonist) would become black/female/gay/alien/green/transgender/whateverthatisinconsistent. Wouldn't make any sense. Bam - I'm a "racist." Or Mr. Satan would become white or whatever.

I mean I don't remember massive movements created at JK Rowling to rewrite Harry Potter.

Why Harry Potter? Is Star Wars considered geek culture? If so, why not Harry Potter? And just ask some people how they feel about the prequel-saga or the rewriting of episodes IV - VI.

I don't remember people kicking up a massive fuss in sport because a player happens to be a minority.

Dube, what!? Racism in sport is a massive problem. Just google it for I presume you'd call it soccer. And this is just from the top of my head.

Hell in this thread alone someone brings up Johnny Storm from Fan4stic, look what they say:

Yeah, just like those of us who wanted an accurate Human Torch are racists, right? Go fuck yourself shitty directors who take something people care about and twist it for your egotistical "look how progressive and trendy I am" needs.

Maybe take a page from the Dragonball guy who eventually realized they dun fucked up.

The director never called people racist. That's a straight up lie. His problem is Storm being a minority, and he lies and says the director called people who didn't like it racist to "prove" his point.

The one you quoted also compared Dragon Ball Evolution to Fant4stic, which are apparently (haven't seen Fant4stic) very different kind of train wrecks.

The director of Fant4stic, as far as I know, didn't say this. Yes, here you're right. But so many, including you apparently, call people racist for having a problem with that. Including a lot of media.

I haven't seen the movie, though. It didn't help that he also had a white sister. But again, maybe it's just because people feel like it was a "continuity error"?

Imagine if Spider Man had a green and pink suit for no reason in a movie.

But I want to say something about this in specific at the end.

He then goes on and says that a writer should have to apologise for writing something. How bonkers is that? Actually thinking that people should have to apologise for writing something? That's nuts.

Have you ever seen, by chance really, Dragon Ball Evolution?

Yeah, I think I know what you mean. It's an artists' freedom to do whatever they want. In principle, I'd agree.

But if you take the reins for an established fictional universe, people invested in this fictional universe expect you to be "respectful" of the lore, which means that you hold the established rules and don't create additional plot holes and hold the canon true. If you for one would pick up a franchise, it isn't yours. You'd be just a successor of the one who created it.

Hell I just went to check the trailer for Pixels: 87k likes, 12k dislikes. That terrible movie with its terrible trailer that uses things from the 80's? Suspiciously nowhere near as much dislikes as a trailer that has women in a new movie from a dead franchise.

Excuse me, but I don't understand. What franchise? That short film it's based on from 2010?

Or do you mean every random asset from the 70's to the 80's game characters, which don't have massive lore behind them?

It's another Adam Sandler movie with a retro-video-game-coat on it. Who takes him and these seriously to begin with? In addition to the characters being bland in comparison to decades of written stories for specific franchises.

Or in the case of Ghost Busters, 2 movies (which provide much more background than every Pac-Man game combined, including New Adventures on the SNES) and maybe an animated series.

If you care to know why I personally would downvote the trailer if I'd care to begin with: It's not funny to me and is another fucking reboot. Both previous movies were funny to me and were no fucking reboots.

---

But to be honest, you do really detestable things here so many people do, including those you show your contempt here: You generalize millions of people, especially nowadays when everybody and their mother is considered or considers themself a "geek". You also blend together, as so many do, racism/misogyny with criticism for different reasons as for example continuity, plot holes, laziness.

What about those, for instance, who say that Fant4stic was a miserable movie, but Michael Jordan's performance was the best part in it?

(I think that a more frequent switch in ethnicity from arc to arc at random would solve this issue, comic- and movie-wise to be honest. That way, the ethnicity wouldn't be a factor at all after a while, which it shouldn't imo)

Why are you extreme yourself with damning extremists? With you behaviour, you're watering real racism and misogyny down, and as a side effect, bolster real racists and misogynists with people who are really into the source material.

I don't mean to be rude. But this, in large, is what happens all over the (western) world at the moment and is within my political party a massive problem. And stuff like exactly this polarizes unnecessarily.

 

[Winthrop]

I dont post much anymore, but my only problem is with Melissa Mccarthy. Dont get me wrong, if this movie ends up being good, I'll be the first to say it, its just that every McCarthy movie I've seen so far has been un-watchable garbage...the best lessons we can learn come from history.

I'm with you on this. She is my least favorite comedian. I haven't enjoyed a single thing I've seen her in. I feel like she always tells the same joke and its not a joke I enjoyed the first time. And I'm actually less critical of the trailer than most people I've heard on here, I thought the new gear looked pretty cool actually. But since shes in it, even if it does well I'm still not planning to see it. I've been down that road before.