GOG Says DRM Drives Gamers to Piracy

[Thaliur]

I remember a game... I think it was "Scrapland" (nice Action RPG, by the way). For a few days, I couldn't play it at all, because its copy rotection driver was incompatible with my OS (WinXP x64).
I had to find a No-CD crack just to play a game I paid for. Protection Overkill I'd say

 

[theultimateend]

I think that's a big part of the reason Spore was pirated as much as it was. Its DRM was just ridiculous.

I think one of EA's claims was that it was unbreakable DRM.

Spore was actually one of the most pirated games of all time before the official release date, so that does kind of skew the numbers a bit.

It was also a demo marketed as a game.

So it deserved everything it got.

I bought it (collectors edition no less) and it's one of my most regretted video game purchases.

Shattered one of the last positive relationships I had with the gaming world.

We'll see... If Witcher 2 becomes the most pirated game of 2011 then it's obvious that DRM isn't the main factor for piracy.

In all honesty, pirates will pirate regardless of DRM or not. To them, it's free stuff and the DRM is just another reason to pirate. Sure some bitter gamers might turn to piracy but actual pirates won't give a damn about whether a studio has DRM or not. NO DRM = No effect on a pirate's intention.

The only thing preventing the game from being pirated to death is the fact that it's graphically intensive which limits the number of pirates that can run it. But that's hardly any comfort.

Correlation != Causation.

It would be nice if folks could be a little more data driven. The war against piracy is obnoxiously anecdotal.

This coming from someone who doesn't even approve of the practice.

Considering pirates are a thousand times less obnoxious though I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Paragon Fury]

No DRM?

I hope you enjoy seeing abysmal sales and tons of pirated and outright stolen copies then. You're basically saying "I'm going to leave this shiny, valuable object out in the open with a >Please pay $40-$60 for this item> sign, and boy oh boy, I hope not too many people steal it."

People are not nice, and they are not good. You're going to regret this. Even developers that have tried to be nice about DRM before have been kicked in the teeth by gamers and pirates; what makes you they're going to be any different now?

 

[risenbone]

Look DRM isn't there to prevent piracy thats just the PR spin we have heard for so long thats it's become "fact". The real reason for DRM is to stop second hand sales. If you can only install a programe a limited amount of times no second hand dealer in their right mind will buy second hand DRM protected merchandise because there is no way of telling how many uses it has left. Thats the reason PC games have no refund when the seal is broken and no real official second hand market. When seen in that light DRM has been and will continue to be wildly successful and won't go away anytime soon.

 

[theultimateend]

No DRM?

I hope you enjoy seeing abysmal sales and tons of pirated and outright stolen copies then. You're basically saying "I'm going to leave this shiny, valuable object out in the open with a >Please pay $40-$60 for this item> sign, and boy oh boy, I hope not too many people steal it."

People are not nice, and they are not good. You're going to regret this. Even developers that have tried to be nice about DRM before have been kicked in the teeth by gamers and pirates; what makes you they're going to be any different now?

The local CSA has boxes with tons of food in them that says "Take X amount" and has a sign off sheet.

They've been running for years and never had a single thing stolen.

I've been to bookstores that had tables of books outside with nobody guarding them that weren't stolen.

Best Buy in my old neighborhood had electronics in a tent and one guy there. They had nothing stolen (however indoors where they have plenty of cameras and security they get things pilfered).

People rise to the bar you set for them. Every product is worth exactly as much as the person pays for it, not how much the maker charges.

I can tell you a paper napkin is worth 90 million dollars, doesn't make it so. Piracy is at it's heart, like all crime, a response to an untapped market.

Just because you are not a nice person doesn't mean you should transpose that onto others. The mean world theory is one of the oldest and most pathetic cognitive biases.

Let's not forget that piracy numbers don't even mean anything. If 10 people pirate a game and then 5 of those 10 people buy it. That doesn't mean you lost 10 sales. Nobody does the throughput to find out what kind of sales piracy can generate.

Minecraft is arguably one of the easiest games to pirate on the planet, the guys made what 33 million dollars? He's also not being a little child about piracy either. Likewise just about every year the most pirated game is also the highest selling title. Presumably that should be reverse.

Look DRM isn't there to prevent piracy thats just the PR spin we have heard for so long thats it's become "fact". The real reason for DRM is to stop second hand sales. If you can only install a programe a limited amount of times no second hand dealer in their right mind will buy second hand DRM protected merchandise because there is no way of telling how many uses it has left. Thats the reason PC games have no refund when the seal is broken and no real official second hand market. When seen in that light DRM has been and will continue to be wildly successful and won't go away anytime soon.

Yep. This would be it.

 

[Paragon Fury]

No DRM?

I hope you enjoy seeing abysmal sales and tons of pirated and outright stolen copies then. You're basically saying "I'm going to leave this shiny, valuable object out in the open with a >Please pay $40-$60 for this item> sign, and boy oh boy, I hope not too many people steal it."

People are not nice, and they are not good. You're going to regret this. Even developers that have tried to be nice about DRM before have been kicked in the teeth by gamers and pirates; what makes you they're going to be any different now?

The local CSA has boxes with tons of food in them that says "Take X amount" and has a sign off sheet.

They've been running for years and never had a single thing stolen.

I've been to bookstores that had tables of books outside with nobody guarding them that weren't stolen.

Best Buy in my old neighborhood had electronics in a tent and one guy there. They had nothing stolen (however indoors where they have plenty of cameras and security they get things pilfered).

People rise to the bar you set for them. Every product is worth exactly as much as the person pays for it, not how much the maker charges.

I can tell you a paper napkin is worth 90 million dollars, doesn't make it so. Piracy is at it's heart, like all crime, a response to an untapped market.

Just because you are not a nice person doesn't mean you should transpose that onto others. The mean world theory is one of the oldest and most pathetic cognitive biases.

The problem with all that is the social setting makes fear of getting caught a reality, even if people are not actively around. Additionally, the likely-hood of finding "support" for your actions is low if you do take something.

However on the Internet, there is no "social setting" each person is an island in of themselves, and there are few social repercussions for pirating a game. You're likely to even find support for doing it online.

Its not the "Mean World Theory". Its the extension of the self-serving bias found in every human being. People only follow rules and norms for two reasons; enforcement, such as by police or community, or internalized values. Enforcement is basically useless on the internet, and internalized values don't work too well when there is a weak social structure.

 

[Sartan0]

No DRM?

I hope you enjoy seeing abysmal sales and tons of pirated and outright stolen copies then. You're basically saying "I'm going to leave this shiny, valuable object out in the open with a >Please pay $40-$60 for this item> sign, and boy oh boy, I hope not too many people steal it."

People are not nice, and they are not good. You're going to regret this. Even developers that have tried to be nice about DRM before have been kicked in the teeth by gamers and pirates; what makes you they're going to be any different now?

I could not disagree more. I will in fact put my money where my mouth is and many others will as well.

Not to mention that games will be pirated anyway regardless of DRM or no DRM. I happen to think CD Project Red will get more customers their way. I never played "Assassins Creed two" because of the *&^ty DRM they had so I am at least one lost sale for them and one real sale for "The Witcher two".

 

[Canadamus Prime]

I think that's a big part of the reason Spore was pirated as much as it was. Its DRM was just ridiculous.

I think one of EA's claims was that it was unbreakable DRM.

And of course as soon as they say that, every hacker worth his/her salt will take that as a challenge and immediately set to work trying to break it.

 

[JonnWood]

This is a statement that is true. In the same sense as the statement as "crack drives people to commit robberies" is true. Specifically, in that it doesn't actually excuse the negative action, just explains it.

I can tell you a paper napkin is worth 90 million dollars, doesn't make it so. Piracy is at it's heart, like all crime, a response to an untapped market.

Counterpoint: Murder.

Let's not forget that piracy numbers don't even mean anything. If 10 people pirate a game and then 5 of those 10 people buy it. That doesn't mean you lost 10 sales. Nobody does the throughput to find out what kind of sales piracy can generate.

Because the numbers are, by design, hard to pin down, and a pirate, by definition, takes something that doesn't belong to them. Trying to court that market is pretty darn dumb, especially when things like the Humble Indie Bundle, with a minimum price of one red cent, get pirated.

Likewise just about every year the most pirated game is also the highest selling title. Presumably that should be reverse.

Why? The "lost sales" argument is just a Straw Man. The reason piracy is wrong is because it involves taking stuff you didn't pay for.

Look DRM isn't there to prevent piracy thats just the PR spin we have heard for so long thats it's become "fact". The real reason for DRM is to stop second hand sales. If you can only install a programe a limited amount of times no second hand dealer in their right mind will buy second hand DRM protected merchandise because there is no way of telling how many uses it has left. Thats the reason PC games have no refund when the seal is broken and no real official second hand market. When seen in that light DRM has been and will continue to be wildly successful and won't go away anytime soon.

Yep. This would be it.

Ah, yes, that old chestnut. Say, care to back it up with evidence? BTW, if there was no piracy, what "excuse" do you think publishers would use for DRM?

 

[Verkula]

Sucks, because piracy made them create DRMs in the first place.

 

[Keava]

No DRM?

I hope you enjoy seeing abysmal sales and tons of pirated and outright stolen copies then. You're basically saying "I'm going to leave this shiny, valuable object out in the open with a >Please pay $40-$60 for this item> sign, and boy oh boy, I hope not too many people steal it."

People are not nice, and they are not good. You're going to regret this. Even developers that have tried to be nice about DRM before have been kicked in the teeth by gamers and pirates; what makes you they're going to be any different now?

You know plenty of artists, coders and basement developers do it successfully tho ? You know people are up taking bigger projects just thanks to services like kickstarter? If you just keep saying "People aren't nice" then don't be surprised that games cost 60$+, that the DRM get's more intrusive, that games are less and less innovative because of that risk factor.

Several examples from music industry already proved that if people like your work they will gladly pay you for it even if you offer it free of charge on the internet. Look at Trent Reznor from NiN, look at Amanda Palmer, you can listen to their music without spending a buck and yet those "silly people" pay them. Amazing? Internet busking is slowly making it's mark.

Of course games ain't same as music, mainly because production costs of high quality games are rather big. But whenever you put DRM on a game or not, people will pirate it. Will it be one or two days later or even a month later it doesn't matter. In majority they are not the crowd that will camp in front of a shop for midnight release anyway.

It's in the end a question of approach towards your customer. Do you value them enough to trust them or do you treat all, even the most devoted ones, as potential criminals that will steal from you given chance? If the only reason you pay for games is because you have to pay for them then i feel sorry about you.

 

[Asehujiko]

We'll see... If Witcher 2 becomes the most pirated game of 2011 then it's obvious that DRM isn't the main factor for piracy.

In all honesty, pirates will pirate regardless of DRM or not. To them, it's free stuff and the DRM is just another reason to pirate. Sure some bitter gamers might turn to piracy but actual pirates won't give a damn about whether a studio has DRM or not. NO DRM = No effect on a pirate's intention.

The only thing preventing the game from being pirated to death is the fact that it's graphically intensive which limits the number of pirates that can run it. But that's hardly any comfort.

That didn't prevent Crysis from being downloaded 60 million times before release. Which cost Crytek ?4.800.00.000 according to their CEO. Do your own math noting the facts A: Nvidia sold 4.7 million graphic cards capable of running the game at that time B: Ati sold 1.9 million C: games in Europe cost ?50.

 

[liquidangry]

I just find it sad that GOG is not the only one using DRM-Free as a selling point... There's something obviously wrong with DRM as evidenced by that. It's like selling a house with no door locks on it because the locks are too time consuming and involved to get past. It's just, dumb. Especially considering there's no bars or locks on the windows. Who are you stopping from getting in other then the owner, really?

 

[Cid Silverwing]

Now if only the corporate fuckwits will understand this.

 

[Irridium]

No DRM?

I hope you enjoy seeing abysmal sales and tons of pirated and outright stolen copies then. You're basically saying "I'm going to leave this shiny, valuable object out in the open with a >Please pay $40-$60 for this item> sign, and boy oh boy, I hope not too many people steal it."

People are not nice, and they are not good. You're going to regret this. Even developers that have tried to be nice about DRM before have been kicked in the teeth by gamers and pirates; what makes you they're going to be any different now?

Thats what they're doing with GoG.com, and it seems to be doing quite well. If what you say is true, GoG.com should have gone out of business within the first few months of being active.

And even if it does get pirated to hell and back, then it'll be just as effective as every other form of DRM. With the added bonus of costing a lot less to implement and deal with, and not pissing off your paying customers.

 

[Vrach]

And watch as The Witcher 2 gets pirated to hell

You mean at the same or less amount/pace/etc. as games WITH DRM?

OT: Yeah, been saying this for ages, nice to see someone say it out loud from within the industry though

 

[MrTub]

I would just like to point out that there is so much more potential to get real malware from a pirate site than actual DRM. If you think running that patch software only patches your game, you better run a good anti-virus on your computer.

DRM doesn't prevent piracy, but I don't think it promotes it much either.

Im sorry but that is simply not true unless you google xxxxx.torrent and click the first link. If you got half a brain you join a closed community tracker.

 

[Aeshi]

And yet it's the DRM-less games like World of Goo that get 90% piracy rates...

And that was a small £5 indie game, a big proper game like this? I hope GOG has designed The Witcher 2 so that it can profit from only 10 sales because that's probably all you're gonna get!