Hackers Release PlayStation 3 "LV0 Decryption Keys"

[Andrew_C]

So, does this mean you might finally be able to re-enable OtherOS on a Fat PS3?

Also I would say this is mission accomplished for Sony. It took until now for security measures on the PS3 to be totally cracked. That must be far longer than they anticipated.

Amusing that they could design such a secure piece of hardware and connect it to a network designed by themselves with effectively no security at all. You would think there would have been some degree of co-ordination.

 

[Loonyyy]

To those playing the "it's your property" card, I raise you the "you agreed to the TOS" and "developers don't get paid for pirated content" cards.

In all seriousness, I actually wouldn't mind if they kept it to themselves, because then it really is just affecting their own property. It's a shame a stupid money-grabbing group forced their hand.

TOS, like EULA can be ruled unconsionable. Basically, the layperson usually can't understand it, and the contract is too one-sided for consent to be seen as binding, and the consumer is not informed of all the terms of the terms prior to purchase, except in fine print on the back, and the terms are not elucidated at the time of transaction. They're bullshit. Some of them have been ruled worthless, and excluding the legality of the contract, it's a disgusting and amoral business practice to extort the customer in such a way.

Also, the developer includes in their TOS, the ability to update the TOS, and remove functionality, like the OtherOS system on the PS3. So they're already using blackmail in changing the TOS to force the users to accept their new terms, and take away features the users paid for.

At which point I feel, you get what you deserve when people start hacking your system and taking back what's theirs, and everything else besides.

That's such a cop out answer these days. The pirated version is free. What do you need to provide, as a new developer, to be able to beat that? People pirate INDIE games, for fucks sake, they aren't going to come over all moral because "WE NOW DECIDED THE PRODUCT WAS WORTH PAYING FOR ALL OF A SUDDEN BECAUSE REASONS, AND SUCH".

You can provide content easily which pirates aren't. Piracy isn't so easy, to the newcomer, and if you can avoid driving more casual users to piracy, then you can increase your revenue dramatically. For some titles, pirates are running 90% of the games, so if you can encourage just 1/9th of that, you'll double your profits. (I'm basically summarising a post from Shamus Young's blog, which I don't have time to find).

You'll never beat the pirate version for price, but you can beat it for convenience. You can add content on a regular basis through updates, which rewards the customer, and makes piracy more of a hassle to get the same quality game. You can reward users of your systems with previews of upcoming titles and discounts on them. Yes, this takes extra effort. But a minor bit of extra effort gives a large result: Whilst pirated versions are more common than bought versions, every successful conversion is worth more, comparitively.

There's no way to completely stop the pirates from getting it, and the extra stuff you offer. They can and will get their hands on anything you put out there. But if you make your version a little more enticing, and make piracy a hassle (By releasing new content etc, not by putting DRM on it), then users will be more inclined to buy your product. Whereas at the moment, if you want the simplest, best copy, piracy may be the best option, which is exactly what publishers don't want.

 

[Athinira]

Games going digital is irrelevant to ownership too, you can BUY something from Steam and still own it if consumers demand that. In other words, DD doesn't make ownership impossible. It just means that you own a product key which gives you access to the data. No different than owning a disc that gives you access to the data (ie, console games).

Actually in some countries that isn't the same.

Here in Denmark for example, we have something called the "consumption right" (or "right to consumption") which applies to physical products. Our lazy politians however, have never gotten off their arse and extended that to include digital products.

What this basically means is that my rights when buying digital goods are diminished, compared to if i purchase them physically. As a DJ, for example, the law permits me to play music from CD's or Vinyls or any other physical media. Digital DJ'ing with MP3/WAV/AAC files, however, actually require the permission from the rights holders to play. So i could theoretically get sued for playing an album i bought on iTunes, but not an album i bought in the local music store.

 

[Aeshi]

My point is real market data shows people will pay when there are better perks attached to the normal game and buying the game is simply easier then pirating.

because if there is one thing you can count on it's peoples ability to be lazy

So:

1) Go to Torrent Site
2) Download Torrent
3) Install Game
4) Play Game

Is somehow harder/less convenient than:

1) Go to Store/Website
2) Input credentials
3) Buy Game
4a) Wait for game to be delivered (if Retail)
4b) Download installer (if Digital)
5) Install Game
6) Play Game

You can provide content easily which pirates aren't.

No you can't. That's the whole point of Piracy. Anything you make they can simply crack and release for free.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Even so, it's apt proof that in the face of a truly determined adversary, no security measure is foolproof.

I didn't need this to tell me that. I've known that for a long time. No matter how secure you think your device or network is, with enough time and enough dedication it can be broken. The best you can hope for is to make it secure enough that anyone attempting to break it will get bored and give up.

 

[BernardoOne]

Hasn't the 360 and Wii been 'easily to hack', for like...ever now?

Never really saw NEAR the level of stories on TE when that was happening...

Maybe it's cause the PSP got so screwed by CFW?

Yes, PS3 is less popular by pirates because it is harder to hack and blueray discs cost A LOT. you can buy 10 dual layer dvds for the cost of 1 blueray disc.
then again this was only hard for people who didnt knew how ofc, but there are many such in the world.
what can i say, sony - 0, humanity - 1. locking users out of costum software should be criminal offence, but now its copyright.

Actualy, you are wrong. To hack PS3 you only need a USB drive. Piracy on PS3 does not use bluray discs, it uses the internal or external hardrives.

 

[renegade7]

Fuck, does this mean they're going to close PSN for another 6 weeks? Because I was just starting to like Dust 514.

 

[disgruntledgamer]

So let me get this straight to prevent a few people from using the Keys they decided to release the Keys to everyone?

Are The Three Tuskateers the same idiots that came up with the Mass Effect 3 ending?
Could they not follow this to it's logical conclusion and see how this would hurt way more than it helps?

 

[AwesomeDave]

I disagree that hackers hack for the challenge on the whole... maybe some do, but I think most of it equates to telling a 5 year old child not to do something.. they have to do it... maybe these hackers should stop messing with other peoples stuff and build/program their own equipment to do what they want...

I look forward to the day when the law actually starts doing things about these hackers... if i owned sony, there would be a few people getting paid (off the record, naturally) to ensure this stops... once a few of these hackers cant hack anymore due to having their fingers cut off, this BS would end right quick.

dont like how a system works, dont buy it. just stop screwing over us honest people who just wanna game....

 

[Cecilthedarkknight_234]

I am ignoring all the other shit because I didn't want to discuss the ins and outs of EULA's, too many brainwashed people ready to give away all their consumer rights for my patience.

So are you really denying that hackers hack for the challenge?

Not at all. In fact, if you look back to my original response to your original answer:

Hackers hack because they like the challenge, why do you play games?

I understand the "they like the challenge" argument as it's always fun to take something that someone said can't be done and go ahead and do it anyways.

I say that I fully understand that aspect of it. All I've been saying - the entire point of the rest of that post and every post after - is that your equating the challenge of hacking to the challenge of a videogame is completely flawed. One has clear victims, the other one does not.

Then we agree on the only point I care to argue.

Fair enough. As I said: have a pleasant evening.

You too.

To avoid a low content warning:

I do think (and I don't want to argue this with anyone) that no one last gen even considered that they didn't own the games they bought. People should probably look back and figure out why they feel that way now. Figure out when and how they have been manipulated to give up ownership of games and hardware.

Pretty much this and why most things I own are modded aside from the 360 because of permabanning/bricking of said console. Our consumer rights are being stripped away one by one in favor of the said companies even if we don't do anything wrong. Sadly It's getting to the point where you don't own anything you buy anymore and with stricter drm already into play that forces you be online to play a single player game. Hell even those that buy legally are suffering while modders/hackers are having fun playing games... I miss having fun playing games doesn't everyone else?

 

[Stick Antolini]

its true you will always have people who will pirate for the sake of pirating. there isn't anything realy wrong with that because the wont buy it anyway, so no money lost nor gained. this is also the reason why bad games get pirated.

So what you are saying is, it's okay for someone to take your car out for a spin at night as long as they refill the gas tank, because hey, you weren't going to use it anyway.


My stance on the matter is that it's not the hacking that's the issue, it's the fact that people are inherently assholes and thus will abuse it. I'm not trying to take the moral high ground I'm not exempt from this, it's an intrinsic property of being human, the most absolute fact of life, people are assholes.

 

[direkiller]

My point is real market data shows people will pay when there are better perks attached to the normal game and buying the game is simply easier then pirating.

because if there is one thing you can count on it's peoples ability to be lazy

So:

1) Go to Torrent Site
2) Download Torrent
3) Install Game
4) Play Game

Is somehow harder/less convenient than:

1) Go to Store/Website
2) Input credentials
3) Buy Game
4a) Wait for game to be delivered (if Retail)
4b) Download installer (if Digital)
5) Install Game
6) Play Game

It's more like
Go to store download and play(if it not your first time then yes credit card information needs to be entered)
games come pre loaded now so there is no install along with chat service multiplayer and quick downloads to outer computers

compared to a much slower download with a torrent and the need for virtual drivers and installing. Yes people will pay just to not deal with that.

and it shows for instance
Russia: Piracy rate dropped 21% from 2005

http://chartsbin.com/view/1188
http://portal.bsa.org/globalpiracy2011/

 

[Aeonknight]

At this rate, Sony should just hire these hackers as full-on firmware developers or something.

They obviously know their way around the hardware more than the actual developers.

There is a major difference between hacking it and designing it from the ground up. And said hackers are not going to have better odds at making it secure.

 

[direkiller]

Sadly It's getting to the point where you don't own anything you buy anymore

you never did. You own a licence to the game just like you always have. It's simply how Ip and copy rights work.

It's like saing macs don't get viruses.
Simply because it's a UNIX system and they call them malwhare


Just to show you:


because im a packrat
I just happen to have a game manual sitting around from Age of Empires in arms reach

"Except as expressly provided in any written license agreement from Microsoft, the furnishings of this document dose not give you any license to these patents, trademarks, copyrights, or outer intellectual property"
This is from 1997


Now for Starcraft II

The StarCraft II: Wings of liberty software program, and all files that are deliverd to you by Blizzared Entertainment, Inc to patch update, or othe wise(sic.) modify the software program, as well as all printed materials and electronic documentation, together with any and all copies and derivetive works of such software program and manual is copyrighted work of Blizzared Entertainment.




basically they are the same thing except the blizzard one is a bit wordier because it covers the mod tools aswell

So you can play the game but you cannot use our stuff for your own profit without there permission.

 

[Feylynn]

more prove of the fact that sercurity updates wont work agianst pirates. better make your product worth buying instead of pirating.

That's such a cop out answer these days. The pirated version is free. What do you need to provide, as a new developer, to be able to beat that? People pirate INDIE games, for fucks sake, they aren't going to come over all moral because "WE NOW DECIDED THE PRODUCT WAS WORTH PAYING FOR ALL OF A SUDDEN BECAUSE REASONS, AND SUCH".

I bought the few games that I ever pirated on steam because it's super easy, super cool and has a convenient community to play with all my friends. So that does happen. My sample size is only in the tens but I know other people that the same has happened to. Not worth much in the grand scheme but it's evidence of a trend that should be considered.

Pirating as Demo and as Advertisement is a thing that happens. I don't have the research to tell you how much of it results in a purchase though so make of it what you will.

 

[ResonanceSD]

.

Here's what a publisher sees.

People pirated our game

Then they bought it

Clearly they liked our game, but to appease our shareholders, we will load DRM onto it.

Now, the problem with people like you, is that you don't seem to be able to read reviews, and have never heard of youtube to get a feel for the game. You just HAVE to have it for yourself.

If you don't buy a game because it didn't have a demo, tell the god damn publisher, so they don't keep loading up DRM.


By pirating "for the demo", you're making the problem *worse*.

Also, my job is basically market analytics. If you dont' have the research to support your point, don't even mention it. Because what's going to happen (like right now, in fact) is that I'm going to ask you for evidence of your

Pirating as Demo and as Advertisement is a thing that happens.

statement, or request that you admit that you just made that up on the spot, which is equally likely.

 

[Epona]

I disagree that hackers hack for the challenge on the whole... maybe some do, but I think most of it equates to telling a 5 year old child not to do something.. they have to do it... maybe these hackers should stop messing with other peoples stuff and build/program their own equipment to do what they want...

I look forward to the day when the law actually starts doing things about these hackers... if i owned sony, there would be a few people getting paid (off the record, naturally) to ensure this stops... once a few of these hackers cant hack anymore due to having their fingers cut off, this BS would end right quick.

dont like how a system works, dont buy it. just stop screwing over us honest people who just wanna game....

So you are ok with cutting fingers off but hacking is bad?

 

[Epona]

Sadly It's getting to the point where you don't own anything you buy anymore

you never did. You own a licence to the game just like you always have. It's simply how Ip and copy rights work.

BS! Are you really claiming I never owned my NES carts?

Let me explain to you how copyrights work. I own my games but I have no right to make copies and sell them. I can make a copy for backup purposes but if I sell the original, I must destroy the backup copy.

Copyright doesn't eliminate consumer ownership.

 

[Cecilthedarkknight_234]

Sadly It's getting to the point where you don't own anything you buy anymore

you never did. You own a licence to the game just like you always have. It's simply how Ip and copy rights work.

BS! Are you really claiming I never owned my NES carts?

Let me explain to you how copyrights work. I own my games but I have no right to make copies and sell them. I can make a copy for backup purposes but if I sell the original, I must destroy the backup copy.

Copyright doesn't eliminate consumer ownership.

more or less yes that is what the statement is you don't own anything media wise due to the way the laws are written. I believe there are some companies trying to stop used dvd/bluray, game and book sales as well because of loss of in profit even if the said product is no longer in production.

 

[Epona]

Sadly It's getting to the point where you don't own anything you buy anymore

you never did. You own a licence to the game just like you always have. It's simply how Ip and copy rights work.

BS! Are you really claiming I never owned my NES carts?

Let me explain to you how copyrights work. I own my games but I have no right to make copies and sell them. I can make a copy for backup purposes but if I sell the original, I must destroy the backup copy.

Copyright doesn't eliminate consumer ownership.

more or less yes that is what the statement is you don't own anything media wise due to the way the laws are written. I believe there are some companies trying to stop used dvd/bluray, game and book sales as well because of loss of in profit even if the said product is no longer in production.

What companies are trying to do doesn't change the definition of COPYRIGHT. Only copyright owners can make legal copies (outside of a personal backup) but that has no impact on ownership of a DVD, DS card or even a digital download.