Hackers Release PlayStation 3 "LV0 Decryption Keys"

direkiller

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Cecilthedarkknight_234 said:
Sadly It's getting to the point where you don't own anything you buy anymore
you never did. You own a licence to the game just like you always have. It's simply how Ip and copy rights work.

It's like saing macs don't get viruses.
Simply because it's a UNIX system and they call them malwhare


Just to show you:


because im a packrat
I just happen to have a game manual sitting around from Age of Empires in arms reach

"Except as expressly provided in any written license agreement from Microsoft, the furnishings of this document dose not give you any license to these patents, trademarks, copyrights, or outer intellectual property"
This is from 1997


Now for Starcraft II

The StarCraft II: Wings of liberty software program, and all files that are deliverd to you by Blizzared Entertainment, Inc to patch update, or othe wise(sic.) modify the software program, as well as all printed materials and electronic documentation, together with any and all copies and derivetive works of such software program and manual is copyrighted work of Blizzared Entertainment.




basically they are the same thing except the blizzard one is a bit wordier because it covers the mod tools aswell

So you can play the game but you cannot use our stuff for your own profit without there permission.
 

Feylynn

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ResonanceSD said:
Wado Rhyu said:
more prove of the fact that sercurity updates wont work agianst pirates. better make your product worth buying instead of pirating.

That's such a cop out answer these days. The pirated version is free. What do you need to provide, as a new developer, to be able to beat that? People pirate INDIE games, for fucks sake, they aren't going to come over all moral because "WE NOW DECIDED THE PRODUCT WAS WORTH PAYING FOR ALL OF A SUDDEN BECAUSE REASONS, AND SUCH".
I bought the few games that I ever pirated on steam because it's super easy, super cool and has a convenient community to play with all my friends. So that does happen. My sample size is only in the tens but I know other people that the same has happened to. Not worth much in the grand scheme but it's evidence of a trend that should be considered.

Pirating as Demo and as Advertisement is a thing that happens. I don't have the research to tell you how much of it results in a purchase though so make of it what you will.
 

ResonanceSD

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Feylynn said:
Here's what a publisher sees.

People pirated our game

Then they bought it

Clearly they liked our game, but to appease our shareholders, we will load DRM onto it.

Now, the problem with people like you, is that you don't seem to be able to read reviews, and have never heard of youtube to get a feel for the game. You just HAVE to have it for yourself.

If you don't buy a game because it didn't have a demo, tell the god damn publisher, so they don't keep loading up DRM.


By pirating "for the demo", you're making the problem *worse*.

Also, my job is basically market analytics. If you dont' have the research to support your point, don't even mention it. Because what's going to happen (like right now, in fact) is that I'm going to ask you for evidence of your
Feylynn said:
Pirating as Demo and as Advertisement is a thing that happens.
statement, or request that you admit that you just made that up on the spot, which is equally likely.
 

Epona

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AwesomeDave said:
I disagree that hackers hack for the challenge on the whole... maybe some do, but I think most of it equates to telling a 5 year old child not to do something.. they have to do it... maybe these hackers should stop messing with other peoples stuff and build/program their own equipment to do what they want...

I look forward to the day when the law actually starts doing things about these hackers... if i owned sony, there would be a few people getting paid (off the record, naturally) to ensure this stops... once a few of these hackers cant hack anymore due to having their fingers cut off, this BS would end right quick.

dont like how a system works, dont buy it. just stop screwing over us honest people who just wanna game....
So you are ok with cutting fingers off but hacking is bad?
 

Epona

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direkiller said:
Cecilthedarkknight_234 said:
Sadly It's getting to the point where you don't own anything you buy anymore
you never did. You own a licence to the game just like you always have. It's simply how Ip and copy rights work.
BS! Are you really claiming I never owned my NES carts?

Let me explain to you how copyrights work. I own my games but I have no right to make copies and sell them. I can make a copy for backup purposes but if I sell the original, I must destroy the backup copy.

Copyright doesn't eliminate consumer ownership.
 
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Crono1973 said:
direkiller said:
Cecilthedarkknight_234 said:
Sadly It's getting to the point where you don't own anything you buy anymore
you never did. You own a licence to the game just like you always have. It's simply how Ip and copy rights work.
BS! Are you really claiming I never owned my NES carts?

Let me explain to you how copyrights work. I own my games but I have no right to make copies and sell them. I can make a copy for backup purposes but if I sell the original, I must destroy the backup copy.

Copyright doesn't eliminate consumer ownership.
more or less yes that is what the statement is you don't own anything media wise due to the way the laws are written. I believe there are some companies trying to stop used dvd/bluray, game and book sales as well because of loss of in profit even if the said product is no longer in production.
 

Epona

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Cecilthedarkknight_234 said:
Crono1973 said:
direkiller said:
Cecilthedarkknight_234 said:
Sadly It's getting to the point where you don't own anything you buy anymore
you never did. You own a licence to the game just like you always have. It's simply how Ip and copy rights work.
BS! Are you really claiming I never owned my NES carts?

Let me explain to you how copyrights work. I own my games but I have no right to make copies and sell them. I can make a copy for backup purposes but if I sell the original, I must destroy the backup copy.

Copyright doesn't eliminate consumer ownership.
more or less yes that is what the statement is you don't own anything media wise due to the way the laws are written. I believe there are some companies trying to stop used dvd/bluray, game and book sales as well because of loss of in profit even if the said product is no longer in production.
What companies are trying to do doesn't change the definition of COPYRIGHT. Only copyright owners can make legal copies (outside of a personal backup) but that has no impact on ownership of a DVD, DS card or even a digital download.
 

crazyrabbits

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direkiller said:
Cecilthedarkknight_234 said:
Sadly It's getting to the point where you don't own anything you buy anymore
you never did. You own a licence to the game just like you always have. It's simply how Ip and copy rights work.
Completely incorrect.

The product you buy, regardless of what medium you buy it in, gives you physical ownership of the files/item you bought. By doing so, you agree not to sell or otherwise use the product or information in a commercial manner, but that product is yours to do with as you wish (rule of first-sale doctrine, making personal backups). Trying to justify this is like saying, "You can't own a Ford stationwagon - only the licence" or "you can't own this DVD, only a licence to view it." No matter how many weasel words the gaming industry uses to try and justify it, it has never worked, and never will work.

Cecilthedarkknight_234 said:
more or less yes that is what the statement is you don't own anything media wise due to the way the laws are written. I believe there are some companies trying to stop used dvd/bluray, game and book sales as well because of loss of in profit even if the said product is no longer in production.
Then I suggest you look up the rule of first-sale doctrine, because your argument is wrong. As said before, copyright doesn't trump physical ownership. Never has, and never will. Even if a law were passed to somehow outlaw reselling copies, it will still go on unabated and would eventually be struck down - you can't outlaw garage sales and the resale market on the whims of a few game publishers. That is absurd.

The second part of your argument goes to gaming companies trying to get a share of the resale market because they're trying to change the argument that a game (and by extension, physical media) can only be sold once. That's why they've pushed day-one DLC, online passes and pre-order bonuses over the last few years - it's all been done to combat the resale market.

I have a feeling this big court case coming up (at which this issue is at stake) will fall through, just like the attempt to push through digital media that can't be resold in the EU.
 

direkiller

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crazyrabbits said:
direkiller said:
Cecilthedarkknight_234 said:
Sadly It's getting to the point where you don't own anything you buy anymore
you never did. You own a licence to the game just like you always have. It's simply how Ip and copy rights work.
Completely incorrect.

The product you buy, regardless of what medium you buy it in, gives you physical ownership of the files/item you bought. By doing so, you agree not to sell or otherwise use the product or information in a commercial manner, but that product is yours to do with as you wish (rule of first-sale doctrine, making personal backups). Trying to justify this is like saying, "You can't own a Ford stationwagon.
no it's like saying you own the ford station wagon but not the software on it's the computer

compare apples to apples man.


Crono1973 said:
direkiller said:
Cecilthedarkknight_234 said:
Sadly It's getting to the point where you don't own anything you buy anymore
you never did. You own a licence to the game just like you always have. It's simply how Ip and copy rights work.
BS! Are you really claiming I never owned my NES carts?

Let me explain to you how copyrights work. I own my games but I have no right to make copies and sell them. I can make a copy for backup purposes but if I sell the original, I must destroy the backup copy.

Copyright doesn't eliminate consumer ownership.
I never said it did
you own a licence to the game(as I said before) with respect to that licence all consumer rights apply.

you don't own the non-physical media on the disk,card,ecd. and cannot modify it outside the wishes of the IP owner or outside of fair use(hence why hackers can get banned).

I probably should have made that clearer
 

Epona

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direkiller said:
crazyrabbits said:
direkiller said:
Cecilthedarkknight_234 said:
Sadly It's getting to the point where you don't own anything you buy anymore
you never did. You own a licence to the game just like you always have. It's simply how Ip and copy rights work.
Completely incorrect.

The product you buy, regardless of what medium you buy it in, gives you physical ownership of the files/item you bought. By doing so, you agree not to sell or otherwise use the product or information in a commercial manner, but that product is yours to do with as you wish (rule of first-sale doctrine, making personal backups). Trying to justify this is like saying, "You can't own a Ford stationwagon.
no it's like saying you own the ford station wagon but not the software on it's the computer

compare apples to apples man.


Crono1973 said:
direkiller said:
Cecilthedarkknight_234 said:
Sadly It's getting to the point where you don't own anything you buy anymore
you never did. You own a licence to the game just like you always have. It's simply how Ip and copy rights work.
BS! Are you really claiming I never owned my NES carts?

Let me explain to you how copyrights work. I own my games but I have no right to make copies and sell them. I can make a copy for backup purposes but if I sell the original, I must destroy the backup copy.

Copyright doesn't eliminate consumer ownership.
I never said it did
you own a licence to the game(as I said before) with respect to that licence all consumer rights apply.

you don't own the non-physical media on the disk,card,ecd. and cannot modify it outside the wishes of the IP owner or outside of fair use(hence why hackers can get banned).

I probably should have made that clearer
What happens to me if I modify the software of an NES game that I own?

Yes, all consumer rights apply and one of those is OWNERSHIP. Don't let yourself be brainwashed into thinking you are only renting Chrono Trigger forever, it really is as dumb as it sounds.
 

direkiller

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Crono1973 said:
direkiller said:
crazyrabbits said:
direkiller said:
Cecilthedarkknight_234 said:
Sadly It's getting to the point where you don't own anything you buy anymore
you never did. You own a licence to the game just like you always have. It's simply how Ip and copy rights work.
Completely incorrect.

The product you buy, regardless of what medium you buy it in, gives you physical ownership of the files/item you bought. By doing so, you agree not to sell or otherwise use the product or information in a commercial manner, but that product is yours to do with as you wish (rule of first-sale doctrine, making personal backups). Trying to justify this is like saying, "You can't own a Ford stationwagon.
no it's like saying you own the ford station wagon but not the software on it's the computer

compare apples to apples man.


Crono1973 said:
direkiller said:
Cecilthedarkknight_234 said:
Sadly It's getting to the point where you don't own anything you buy anymore
you never did. You own a licence to the game just like you always have. It's simply how Ip and copy rights work.
BS! Are you really claiming I never owned my NES carts?

Let me explain to you how copyrights work. I own my games but I have no right to make copies and sell them. I can make a copy for backup purposes but if I sell the original, I must destroy the backup copy.

Copyright doesn't eliminate consumer ownership.
I never said it did
you own a licence to the game(as I said before) with respect to that licence all consumer rights apply.

you don't own the non-physical media on the disk,card,ecd. and cannot modify it outside the wishes of the IP owner or outside of fair use(hence why hackers can get banned).

I probably should have made that clearer
What happens to me if I modify the software of an NES game that I own?

Yes, all consumer rights apply and one of those is OWNERSHIP. Don't let yourself be brainwashed into thinking you are only renting Chrono Trigger forever, it really is as dumb as it sounds.
did i say the word rent anywhere in there?
no
is a licence the same as renting
no
ok good

now that your done putting words in my mouth you should read what I said
 

Epona

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direkiller said:
Crono1973 said:
direkiller said:
crazyrabbits said:
direkiller said:
Cecilthedarkknight_234 said:
Sadly It's getting to the point where you don't own anything you buy anymore
you never did. You own a licence to the game just like you always have. It's simply how Ip and copy rights work.
Completely incorrect.

The product you buy, regardless of what medium you buy it in, gives you physical ownership of the files/item you bought. By doing so, you agree not to sell or otherwise use the product or information in a commercial manner, but that product is yours to do with as you wish (rule of first-sale doctrine, making personal backups). Trying to justify this is like saying, "You can't own a Ford stationwagon.
no it's like saying you own the ford station wagon but not the software on it's the computer

compare apples to apples man.


Crono1973 said:
direkiller said:
Cecilthedarkknight_234 said:
Sadly It's getting to the point where you don't own anything you buy anymore
you never did. You own a licence to the game just like you always have. It's simply how Ip and copy rights work.
BS! Are you really claiming I never owned my NES carts?

Let me explain to you how copyrights work. I own my games but I have no right to make copies and sell them. I can make a copy for backup purposes but if I sell the original, I must destroy the backup copy.

Copyright doesn't eliminate consumer ownership.
I never said it did
you own a licence to the game(as I said before) with respect to that licence all consumer rights apply.

you don't own the non-physical media on the disk,card,ecd. and cannot modify it outside the wishes of the IP owner or outside of fair use(hence why hackers can get banned).

I probably should have made that clearer
What happens to me if I modify the software of an NES game that I own?

Yes, all consumer rights apply and one of those is OWNERSHIP. Don't let yourself be brainwashed into thinking you are only renting Chrono Trigger forever, it really is as dumb as it sounds.
did i say the word rent anywhere in there?
no
is a licence the same as renting
no
ok good

now that your done putting words in my mouth you should read what I said
What's the difference between licensing and renting? For that matter, what's the difference between a PERMANENT LICENSE and ownership?

Your crusade to convince us that we have never owned our games is doomed to failure because it flies in face of 30 years of gaming purchases.
 

direkiller

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Crono1973 said:
direkiller said:
Crono1973 said:
direkiller said:
crazyrabbits said:
direkiller said:
Cecilthedarkknight_234 said:
Sadly It's getting to the point where you don't own anything you buy anymore
you never did. You own a licence to the game just like you always have. It's simply how Ip and copy rights work.
Completely incorrect.

The product you buy, regardless of what medium you buy it in, gives you physical ownership of the files/item you bought. By doing so, you agree not to sell or otherwise use the product or information in a commercial manner, but that product is yours to do with as you wish (rule of first-sale doctrine, making personal backups). Trying to justify this is like saying, "You can't own a Ford stationwagon.
no it's like saying you own the ford station wagon but not the software on it's the computer

compare apples to apples man.


Crono1973 said:
direkiller said:
Cecilthedarkknight_234 said:
Sadly It's getting to the point where you don't own anything you buy anymore
you never did. You own a licence to the game just like you always have. It's simply how Ip and copy rights work.
BS! Are you really claiming I never owned my NES carts?

Let me explain to you how copyrights work. I own my games but I have no right to make copies and sell them. I can make a copy for backup purposes but if I sell the original, I must destroy the backup copy.

Copyright doesn't eliminate consumer ownership.
I never said it did
you own a licence to the game(as I said before) with respect to that licence all consumer rights apply.

you don't own the non-physical media on the disk,card,ecd. and cannot modify it outside the wishes of the IP owner or outside of fair use(hence why hackers can get banned).

I probably should have made that clearer
What happens to me if I modify the software of an NES game that I own?

Yes, all consumer rights apply and one of those is OWNERSHIP. Don't let yourself be brainwashed into thinking you are only renting Chrono Trigger forever, it really is as dumb as it sounds.
did i say the word rent anywhere in there?
no
is a licence the same as renting
no
ok good

now that your done putting words in my mouth you should read what I said
What's the difference between licensing and renting? For that matter, what's the difference between a PERMANENT LICENSE and ownership?

Your crusade to convince us that we have never owned our games is doomed to failure because it flies in face of 30 years of gaming purchases.
Licensing and renting is the diffidence between owning the physical portion and not.(renting you own neater). It also is more restrictive as generically the rights to rental cannot be sold but the Licence can.


Licence and ownership the diffidence is rather simple. The ability to use Exclusive rights.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_right
 

Epona

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direkiller said:
Crono1973 said:
direkiller said:
Crono1973 said:
direkiller said:
crazyrabbits said:
direkiller said:
Cecilthedarkknight_234 said:
Sadly It's getting to the point where you don't own anything you buy anymore
you never did. You own a licence to the game just like you always have. It's simply how Ip and copy rights work.
Completely incorrect.

The product you buy, regardless of what medium you buy it in, gives you physical ownership of the files/item you bought. By doing so, you agree not to sell or otherwise use the product or information in a commercial manner, but that product is yours to do with as you wish (rule of first-sale doctrine, making personal backups). Trying to justify this is like saying, "You can't own a Ford stationwagon.
no it's like saying you own the ford station wagon but not the software on it's the computer

compare apples to apples man.


Crono1973 said:
direkiller said:
Cecilthedarkknight_234 said:
Sadly It's getting to the point where you don't own anything you buy anymore
you never did. You own a licence to the game just like you always have. It's simply how Ip and copy rights work.
BS! Are you really claiming I never owned my NES carts?

Let me explain to you how copyrights work. I own my games but I have no right to make copies and sell them. I can make a copy for backup purposes but if I sell the original, I must destroy the backup copy.

Copyright doesn't eliminate consumer ownership.
I never said it did
you own a licence to the game(as I said before) with respect to that licence all consumer rights apply.

you don't own the non-physical media on the disk,card,ecd. and cannot modify it outside the wishes of the IP owner or outside of fair use(hence why hackers can get banned).

I probably should have made that clearer
What happens to me if I modify the software of an NES game that I own?

Yes, all consumer rights apply and one of those is OWNERSHIP. Don't let yourself be brainwashed into thinking you are only renting Chrono Trigger forever, it really is as dumb as it sounds.
did i say the word rent anywhere in there?
no
is a licence the same as renting
no
ok good

now that your done putting words in my mouth you should read what I said
What's the difference between licensing and renting? For that matter, what's the difference between a PERMANENT LICENSE and ownership?

Your crusade to convince us that we have never owned our games is doomed to failure because it flies in face of 30 years of gaming purchases.
Licensing and renting is the diffidence between owning the physical portion and not.(renting you own neater). It also is more restrictive as generically the rights to rental cannot be sold but the Licence can.


Licence and ownership the diffidence is rather simple. The ability to use Exclusive rights.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_right
I own both, let me ask you this, if I want to sell my copy of Super Mario Bros/Duck Hunt, do I need to first remove the software from the cartridge because I don't own the copyright?

Also, perhaps you can tell me where I might find the License Agreement for Super Mario Bros./ Duck Hunt?
 

neverarine

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does anyone think that this might cause sony to try to release the ps4 sooner? if this hack realy is as end game as everyone seems to claim, and sony cant do anything about it, might'nt they want to try to put out a newer system that hasnt been utterly hacked yet?

but i doubt they will...its probablu gonna be a while before the ps4 still...
 

Epona

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neverarine said:
does anyone think that this might cause sony to try to release the ps4 sooner? if this hack realy is as end game as everyone seems to claim, and sony cant do anything about it, might'nt they want to try to put out a newer system that hasnt been utterly hacked yet?

but i doubt they will...its probablu gonna be a while before the ps4 still...
Most people still won't hack their PS3.
 

Bara_no_Hime

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RJ 17 said:
But why did they do it in the first place? Why were they tinkering around with the PS3's firmware to begin with if they themselves didn't want to spread it around?
Maybe they just wanted to run Linix on their PS3s?

If I could (have a Linix expert) install Linix on my old "only plays PS2 games" PS3, I totally would, just so I could say "my PS3 runs Linix" and pretend I'm a Linix snob. :p

Not that I'm going to - I just think it would be funny.

Also - I honestly have no idea if this hack actually allows people to do that. I just remember it was a big thing a few years back and that it got stopped, so I sort of assumed that this might allow it again. However, I don't know nearly enough about this stuff (or care) to actually know for sure.
 

crazyrabbits

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direkiller said:
no it's like saying you own the ford station wagon but not the software on it's the computer
Semantics. We're not talking about IP law here, but physical ownership. If I wanted to go into my car's onboard system and modify it to give me a better performance boost, it's my right as a consumer to do that. I bought the product, and have physical ownership to do what I want with it, short of trying to use the company trademark or proprietary software for commercial profit. The same applies (in a smaller scale) with games and physical media.

you don't own the non-physical media on the disk,card,ecd.
No one said an end-user owns the copyright. That goes into IP law, and is very clear.

You cannot modify it outside the wishes of the IP owner or outside of fair use(hence why hackers can get banned).
Again, a false statement. Aside from the factor that no copyright owner in the world has the ability to enforce such a claim ("modifying outside the wishes of the IP owner"), it ties back into my response, which was that - short of commercially profiting off the IP - you can do whatever you like with it.

If you're playing on a multiplayer server using cheats, or you play a game before it's released, that falls into existing copyright law because you're either trying to play a game on the company's own commercial servers (in most cases), or you're just straight-out breaking the law because you have an illegally-obtained copy of the product.

Licensing and renting is the diffidence between owning the physical portion and not.(renting you own neater). It also is more restrictive as generically the rights to rental cannot be sold but the Licence can.

Licence and ownership the diffidence is rather simple. The ability to use Exclusive rights.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_right
Sorry, it doesn't work like that. Licence has always been separate from physical ownership. In fact, your link there disproves your argument - exclusive rights (or a "bundle of rights", as it extends to IP) includes physical ownership for the end user.

You should have posted this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine

As I said before, the rule of first-sale doctrine allows you, as a consumer end-user of a physical product, to resell that product for less than its original price, and the copyright holder doesn't have a say in what happens after it is sold.

Copyright law grants a copyright owner an exclusive right "to distribute copies or phonorecords of the copyrighted work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership, or by rental, lease, or lending." 17 U.S.C. 106(3). This is called "distribution right" and differs from the copyright owner's "reproduction right" which involves making copies of the copyrighted works. Rather than the right to copy, the distribution right involves the right to transfer physical copies or phonorecords (i.e., recorded music) of the copyrighted work. For example, the distribution right could be infringed when a retailer acquires and sells to public unlawfully made audio or video tapes. Although the retailer may not have copied the work in any way and may not have known that the tapes were made unlawfully, he nevertheless infringes the distribution right by the sale. The distribution right allows the copyright owner to go after any member in the chain of distribution.

The first-sale doctrine creates a basic exception to the copyright holder's distribution right. Once the work is lawfully sold or even transferred gratuitously, the copyright owner's interest in the material object in which the copyrighted work is embodied is exhausted. The owner of the material object can then dispose of it as he sees fit. Thus, one who buys a copy of a book is entitled to resell it, rent it, give it away, or destroy it. However, the owner of the copy of the book will not be able to make new copies of the book because the first-sale doctrine does not limit copyright owner's reproduction right. The rationale of the doctrine is to prevent the copyright owner from restraining the free alienability of goods. Without the doctrine, a possessor of a copy of a copyrighted work would have to negotiate with the copyright owner every time he wished to dispose of his copy. After the initial transfer of ownership of a legal copy of a copyrighted work, the first-sale doctrine exhausts copyright holder's right to control how ownership of that copy can be disposed of. For this reason, this doctrine is also referred to as "exhaustion rule."
It amazes me how many people (like yourself) buy publishers' arguments hook, line and sinker. It's been in effect for almost a whole century, and it's the reason why game publishers are trying to go all-digital - they just want more profit.
 

Strazdas

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BernardoOne said:
Strazdas said:
Tanis said:
Hasn't the 360 and Wii been 'easily to hack', for like...ever now?

Never really saw NEAR the level of stories on TE when that was happening...

Maybe it's cause the PSP got so screwed by CFW?
Yes, PS3 is less popular by pirates because it is harder to hack and blueray discs cost A LOT. you can buy 10 dual layer dvds for the cost of 1 blueray disc.
then again this was only hard for people who didnt knew how ofc, but there are many such in the world.
what can i say, sony - 0, humanity - 1. locking users out of costum software should be criminal offence, but now its copyright.
Actualy, you are wrong. To hack PS3 you only need a USB drive. Piracy on PS3 does not use bluray discs, it uses the internal or external hardrives.
that is a fairly new thing. it used to be blueray or bust.