Halo: Reach Will Punish Quitters, Says Bungie

[Eclectic Dreck]

Nor do I have any responsibility to stay in a game where I am not having fun. Given it's status as an entertainment product, the expectation I have is not unreasonable. Just as it is not your responsibility that I enjoy my time in the game, it is not my responsibility that I stick around and play fodder.

Then don't. Nobody is forcing you to keep playing. If you quit often enough, Bungie will even go ahead and pre-emptively quit for you.

A compelling argument - if you aren't having fun in your current match, don't play the game ever! Interesting how you work two fallacies in at once.

You have this mistaken impression that I want you playing Halo: Reach. I don't. There are plenty of people who don't constantly quit games, and I want to play with them. You can either desist in your socially delinquent behavior or you can go find somebody else to play with. I hear CoD is really popular nowadays.

I make no assumptions about what you want and I would thank you to do the same about what I may want. Especially when I very precisely pointed out what I expect.

As far as I'm concerned, if this keeps quitters from even buying the game in the first place, then it's worked better than Bungie could have ever imagined.

Let me just hold up this meaningless circular debate for a moment. The problem you appear to have is that you are in many games where people quit. Now, thanks to the millions of people who have played Halo at this point, it would not be unfair to assume that your experience would be relatively representative of much of the population - that is, a significant portion of the time someone quits and diminishes your enjoyment. If this is happening often enough that you find it a very significant annoyance that can only be countered through a punitive system, then I think you may be misinterpreting the problem.

The reason people quit in a game is largely because they are frustrated. While the basic threshold of annoyance varies from person to person, short of quitting in order to grief the problem is that a significant enough portion of the people you have played with have become so frustrated with the game that they just walk away. Sure, a punitive system may help resolve the problem but I would assert that the systemic cause of the problem still exists. As I already pointed out in passing, the last time I played Halo 3, the ranked matchmaking system routinely delivered me games where I not only had no hope of winning, I didn't even have any hope of positive reinforcement of my activity in general.

I do not profess to know the true cause of such a problem. It may well be that the Halo 3 community was so incredibly skilled that by the time ODST rolled out the very worst players were several orders of magnitude better at the game, or it may be that people are exploiting the matchmaking system in order to play against fodder like myself for cheap thrills. Regardless of the cause, after three separate attempts to play the game resulted in hilarious strings of defeats, I decided the game simply wasn't worth playing at all.

Regardless, penalizing someone for not having fun may resolve the problem for others, but the person who is not enjoying the game is still not having fun. You have not resolved the inherent issue and instead simply mitigate the fallout for the rest. To make the argument that "if you aren't having fun in a game you just shouldn't play at all" is silly and supports neither your premise (that people who quit before the end of a match diminish your enjoyment) nor does it provide an effective counterpoint to my argument (that a penalty for being frustrated is silly).

 

[Ih8pkmn]

What if you have the worlds worst web connection (Like me) and are forced to quit? What then Bungie? Huh?

 

[Blue Musician]

Its by far unfair, I mean, there are hundreds of valid reasons why people leave, why punish them?

 

[Grey_Focks]

snip 1

Snip 2: The Sequel

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I just want to refer you guys to the fact that NOBODY at Bungie is talking about perma-banning anyone for quiting a lot. They are only talking about giving players who time-out REPEATEDLY in a short amount of time a 15-30 minute "time-out" from matchmaking. Hope this helps!

EDIT- may as well include this quote again, while I'm at it. Please atleast read the part in bold.

<quote= Bungie>So, you may be wondering why we haven't fixed the quitter problem yet. Thing is, we probably have, but we just haven't turned it on yet.
As we speak, the Banhammer is watching, amassing data about who's been quitting, the manner in which they have quit, and who suffered as a result of that quit. Numbers are feeding into complex heuristics and deep databases, and somewhere in the middle of it, our very own disembodied soul howls for revenge.

"Swing Banhammer, swing!" you cry out. Well, problem is, this is a Beta and we don't want the Banhammer swinging wildly until we know for sure that the numbers coming in are correct, and that the Beta itself is stable and not disconnecting people (creating the illusion of quitting.) Currently, we are only logging data for future action.

So what do we have in store for when it goes live next week? Let me pull back the curtain just a bit:

For starters, our Banhammer is getting more data than even Halo 3 produced, which is going to let us dial it in and more aggressively deal with habitual quitters. The real jerks are going to run into this, and then you're not going to see them online anymore. It'll be great.

Second, quitting a game will forfeit any credits you may have earned for that game. In fact, it may even cost you some credits. We're waiting to see how effective the Banhammer is before deciding exactly how much.

Lastly, and all new for Reach, we have a new type of ban called a Quitter Ban. This is a relatively soft ban, so we will be using it quite aggressively, activating after only a handful of quits and lasting a rather long time. What does it do? A player with a Quitter Ban will be temporarily unable to re-enter Matchmaking for 15-30 minutes following any further quits.

Oh, and we're playing around with some gametypes which end early (think "Sudden Death") when most of a team quits out, so that you don't need to play 8v1 Slayer to 100 (aka. "Hide and Seek".) You may see some of these in Matchmaking if we're unhappy with the other countermeasures.

As custodians of the online experience, we will be monitoring and adjusting out countermeasures as necessary to keep things ticking along nicely, without games being marred by habitual flakes who quit when they don't get the Sniper Rifle first. So in the meantime, enjoy the Beta!
And quit quitting, because we are watching, and it is going into your personal Banhammer dossier.

(Special pre-emptive note: Online game designers are familiar with "virtual guilt", whereby a perfectly upstanding, innocent player will feel irrationally nervous and guilty upon hearing about a potential punishment. And now, you're familiar with the concept too. Well, relax. We are very deliberate about our enforcement policies, and if you're not a habitual quitter, we're not going to ban you for that one time that your internet cut out. And if it cuts out every game, well, you should probably use the downtime between games to call your ISP and get a technician out. It'll be for the greater good.)

 

[Apackof12Ninjas]

What if you have the worlds worst web connection (Like me) and are forced to quit? What then Bungie? Huh?

Dont play online games. Or buy a better connection. Its not others gamers and developers fault you have a crap connection.

DSL these days is like candy, easily accessible sweet and (fairly) cheap. If you dont have a good internet connection you have no one to blame but yourself or your cheap parents.

Its by far unfair, I mean, there are hundreds of valid reasons why people leave, why punish them?

SO how is it fair to the other 7 members on your former team? 90% of the arguments are entirely selfish.

Me me me me. Who cares about the other people playing the game. amirite? Go back and play MW2 which encourages this type of behavior.

 

[Dyp100]

That is a stupid idea, Bungie! And to think I was going to BUY this.

[sub]...Yes, I made that stupid image myself.[/sub]

Errr, can you please read a bit of the thread? You get a 15 minute ban if you quit routinely. So, no worries, you can buy Reach again, unless you're a person who quits 10 times in 20 minutes.

See? It's not all that bad afte rall.

 

[Blue Musician]

What if you have the worlds worst web connection (Like me) and are forced to quit? What then Bungie? Huh?

Dont play online games. Or buy a better connection. Its not others gamers and developers fault you have a crap connection.

DSL these days is like candy, easily accessible sweet and (fairly) cheap. If you dont have a good internet connection you have no one to blame but yourself or your cheap parents.

Its by far unfair, I mean, there are hundreds of valid reasons why people leave, why punish them?

SO how is it fair to the other 7 members on your former team? 90% of the arguments are entirely selfish.

Me me me me. Who cares about the other people playing the game. amirite? Go back and play MW2 which encourages this type of behavior.

I do not own MW2, specially for what it made to the PC community.
And no, I am not entirely against this, but not all people can play for say an hour, that is what Halo 1 games normally lasted for me on the PC.

 

[BloodSquirrel]

A compelling argument - if you aren't having fun in your current match, don't play the game ever! Interesting how you work two fallacies in at once.

Expecting you to show some ounce of maturity when losing is not a fallacy.

I make no assumptions about what you want and I would thank you to do the same about what I may want. Especially when I very precisely pointed out what I expect.

I don't care what you expect, and I am making no assumptions about what you want: you have made it explicit that you want to play games with the general population and quit on them.

Regardless, penalizing someone for not having fun may resolve the problem for others, but the person who is not enjoying the game is still not having fun. You have not resolved the inherent issue and instead simply mitigate the fallout for the rest.

Congratulations, you've just discovered the entire point of the system!

Bungie cannot personally ensure that every single player is having fun. People don't like games for many different reasons, and what different people want in a game is often mutually exclusive. That's part of that whole "The world does not revolve around you" thing.

Bungie can, however, get rid of people and/or behaviors that are making things worse for others who ARE enjoying themselves.

And, quite frankly, when normal people aren't enjoying a game they quit playing it. When I realized how broken MW's multiplayer was I quit, and I didn't even need Infinity Ward's help. When people keep playing games that they enjoy so little that they have to keep quitting matches out of rage, then there's something very fundamentally wrong going on and it isn't with the game.

 

[hottsaucekid]

ok if it checks to see if youre actually disconnected or not couldnt people just turn off the xbox and say it was a power outage? flawed system is flawed.

 

[BlackWidower]

Well how about this scenario: I'm playing a game and get killed every round. I barely take three steps I get sniped. The game is no longer fun for me. Why should I be prevented from ever playing ever again because I'd rather play a game that's actually enjoyable. Here's a tip to those frustrated at rage quits: Stop playing online multiplayer.

To the game designers, perhaps an alternative would be to have anyone who quits mid-game instantly replaced with a bot. Objections?

 

[MercenaryCanary]

I'm okay with this, actually. I don't play Halo 3 any more, but this sounds like a reasonable system. Anyone who is angered by this should either look into it more, or simply play another video game.

 

[Energylegzz]

Uggh this thread is really irritating, people if you quit 10 times in 30 minutes maybe you shouldn't play that game mode. There are different modes with different maps, and if you only like 1 or 2 of the maps in the whole games suck it up. Eventually you will find something that might make the map better for you, and even if you don't you can CAMP. you dont need to explore the map every time if you know you hate it sit around and stick it out. If your connection is bad enough that it drops you 10 times in a row in 20 or 30 minutes maybe your connection isnt good enough for an online game....sorry about the rant, i'm just annoyed.

 

[Anti-Robot Man]

This just seems way too heavy handed. Sometimes my internet connection throws a wobbly, its already frustrating enough that I may all of a sudden lag out, get disconected during a game, now they want to make it even more agravating. I hate ragequitters as much as anyone, but it seems like they are going to be in the minority of people getting hit by this. Bungie's smug suggestion that people change their ISP is insulting, I'm on the best broadband available in my area and I still get a shaky connection.

 

[cthulhumythos]

Well how about this scenario: I'm playing a game and get killed every round. I barely take three steps I get sniped. The game is no longer fun for me. Why should I be prevented from ever playing ever again because I'd rather play a game that's actually enjoyable. Here's a tip to those frustrated at rage quits: Stop playing online multiplayer.

To the game designers, perhaps an alternative would be to have anyone who quits mid-game instantly replaced with a bot. Objections?

it's not like if you quit once you get banned forever. if you quit 10 times in 30 minutes (that's one quit every three minutes, 'case you didn't know for some bizarre reason or laziness) you can't play for 15 to 30 minutes.

personally, i don't think that's harsh enough, but it seem's to get numerous people's panties in a bunch, so whatever.

 

[Buizel91]

Wow, cry more quitters will you?
Seriously. If you have a habit of game-quitting so frequently that you get banned for x-time, perhaps you should pick up a different game. And if you're crying about getting owned consistently so you *have* to quit, you're not learning anything.
I was taught to play chess by a man I could *never* beat, but I also *never* quit a game before it was over. Before that man died he told me the reason he always had me play chess with him was because he knew I needed to learn how to lose and LEARN FROM IT. And learn I did, I'm not the greatest chess player but I learned a lot more about myself from that experience. Grow some humility, lose a few games and come back and own. But if you quit because you're losing, then you are nothing more than a sore loser. END OF LINE.

You sir speak the truth, i would like you to accept this gift =)

 

[Buizel91]

This just seems way too heavy handed. Sometimes my internet connection throws a wobbly, its already frustrating enough that I may all of a sudden lag out, get disconected during a game, now they want to make it even more agravating. I hate ragequitters as much as anyone, but it seems like they are going to be in the minority of people getting hit by this. Bungie's smug suggestion that people change their ISP is insulting, I'm on the best broadband available in my area and I still get a shaky connection.

O_O

I swear...my brain is going to blow up >.<

Go to the first page, scroll down a little until you see Vrex...he has the picture of an elite as his avatar. What's an elite you say?

Read it

 

[Necrofudge]

This decision is the grandest thing I have ever read in the history of the universe. Or at least in my top 20.

 

[Upbeat Zombie]

While quitters can be annoying, this is over reacting to it.
Why no just have something like Call of Duty were people can join mid-game?

 

[Archindar]

Well, remind me not to buy a multiplayer Bungie game. If I can't quit without consequence when my team is full of scrubs(like in WoW LFD) I get very angry.

As arc1991 said

Go to the first page, scroll down a little until you see Vrex360... he has the picture of an elite as his avatar. What's an elite you say?

READ IT

 

[Buizel91]

Halo: Reach Will Punish Quitters, Says Bungie

Quit often enough in Halo: Reach, and you might find yourself unable to play at all.

Anyone who plays videogames online probably has had some kind of experience with people quitting. Perhaps you suddenly find yourself outnumbered three to one as members of your team drop out in Gears of War, or maybe you're denied a win in Street Fighter 4 as your opponent vanishes in a puff of internet smoke just before you strike the final blow. But if you make a habit of quitting games in Halo: Reach, you might be in for something of a surprise.

Bungie's Brian Jarrard says that people who habitually quit online games create a "really negative experience" for other players and that while quitting isn't cheating in the strictest sense, Bungie is still eager to curtail it as much as possible. He said that Bungie had developed tools to detect quitters and that it wanted to "remove them from the population" so that they couldn't spoil anyone else's fun.

While few would argue that people quitting online games isn't irritating, actively removing them from playing online seems a touch heavy handed, as well as difficult to manage. One would have to assume that Bungie's tools take into account things like connection issues and other legitimate reasons that people might abruptly leave a game, but no tool is foolproof and there will almost certainly be mistakes. Without seeing the system in action however, it's hard to say anything for definite.

Source: Xbox 360 Achievements [http://www.xbox360achievements.org/news/news-5891-Bungie-Clamping-Down-On-Quitters-In-Reach.html]







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Logan... could you perhaps...edit this? so people realise this is not a bad idea?

and perhaps using Bungiee.net as the source?