Halo: Reach Will Punish Quitters, Says Bungie

[Vzzdak]

Halo: Reach Will Punish Quitters, Says Bungie



While few would argue that people quitting online games isn't irritating, actively removing them from playing online seems a touch heavy handed, as well as difficult to manage. One would have to assume that Bungie's tools take into account things like connection issues and other legitimate reasons that people might abruptly leave a game, but no tool is foolproof and there will almost certainly be mistakes. Without seeing the system in action however, it's hard to say anything for definite.

Okay I just gotta ask this one very straightforward question: Online games are still struggling with this?

Seriously, the original Starcraft figured out how to handle this twelve years ago: If you leave the game before the match is done, a loss is automatically recorded in your win/loss column. Thats all you need to keep people from quitting. And if they don't care about a single loss, they can quit anyway. How hard is this to understand?

This reminds me of the online "Magic: The Gathering" PC game from the late 1990s. Part of that game involved dueling with other players online. However, not once did I encounter someone that did not disconnect moments before they were about to lose, even when doing a rematch after I'd lost the previous round. It was pathetic because the "ratings" system had no other purpose than to help match people according to skill. Instead, people were farming the ratings system for an ego boost. Like Matrix says, all they needed was for the point system to remain valid when the quitter left, rather than treat it as a tie (or void).

With respect to a quitter-algorithm, it has the potential to work well, provided that the coders are thoughtful about how they evaluate the criteria. For example, identifying a person that has a pattern of repeatedly dropping losing games within a given session.

 

[Zeromaeus]

[HEADING=1]What Bungie actually means to say on the matter is here:[/HEADING]

<quote= Bungie>So, you may be wondering why we haven't fixed the quitter problem yet. Thing is, we probably have, but we just haven't turned it on yet.
As we speak, the Banhammer is watching, amassing data about who's been quitting, the manner in which they have quit, and who suffered as a result of that quit. Numbers are feeding into complex heuristics and deep databases, and somewhere in the middle of it, our very own disembodied soul howls for revenge.

"Swing Banhammer, swing!" you cry out. Well, problem is, this is a Beta and we don't want the Banhammer swinging wildly until we know for sure that the numbers coming in are correct, and that the Beta itself is stable and not disconnecting people (creating the illusion of quitting.) Currently, we are only logging data for future action.

So what do we have in store for when it goes live next week? Let me pull back the curtain just a bit:

For starters, our Banhammer is getting more data than even Halo 3 produced, which is going to let us dial it in and more aggressively deal with habitual quitters. The real jerks are going to run into this, and then you're not going to see them online anymore. It'll be great.

Second, quitting a game will forfeit any credits you may have earned for that game. In fact, it may even cost you some credits. We're waiting to see how effective the Banhammer is before deciding exactly how much.

Lastly, and all new for Reach, we have a new type of ban called a Quitter Ban. This is a relatively soft ban, so we will be using it quite aggressively, activating after only a handful of quits and lasting a rather long time. What does it do? A player with a Quitter Ban will be temporarily unable to re-enter Matchmaking for 15-30 minutes following any further quits.

Oh, and we're playing around with some gametypes which end early (think "Sudden Death") when most of a team quits out, so that you don't need to play 8v1 Slayer to 100 (aka. "Hide and Seek".) You may see some of these in Matchmaking if we're unhappy with the other countermeasures.

As custodians of the online experience, we will be monitoring and adjusting out countermeasures as necessary to keep things ticking along nicely, without games being marred by habitual flakes who quit when they don't get the Sniper Rifle first. So in the meantime, enjoy the Beta!
And quit quitting, because we are watching, and it is going into your personal Banhammer dossier.

(Special pre-emptive note: Online game designers are familiar with "virtual guilt", whereby a perfectly upstanding, innocent player will feel irrationally nervous and guilty upon hearing about a potential punishment. And now, you're familiar with the concept too. Well, relax. We are very deliberate about our enforcement policies, and if you're not a habitual quitter, we're not going to ban you for that one time that your internet cut out. And if it cuts out every game, well, you should probably use the downtime between games to call your ISP and get a technician out. It'll be for the greater good.)

[HEADING=1]They are not talking about permanently banning people from the system based on singular acts of rage quitting!
The longest anyone will be banned for is twenty minutes and only if they are frequently quitting from matches, like ten times in a thirty minutes.[/HEADING]

Also:

http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?cid=26432

Towards the end of this article it is mentioned that in fact before you even get a fifteen minute suspension, you get a weekly probation period. Bungie also note the connection issues other countries face and have done their bit to fix that up and have now got the tools needed to fix up connection issues. So the fear of being suspended based on connection issues is not something you need worry about as Bungie are aware of this problem.

I was kind of upset.
Then I read this.
i feel better now.

 

[viranimus]

Hrm.. you know quitting really doesnt bother me. I dont do it, even if its 4 on 1, but still, it doesnt bother me when it happens.. Its a game, alot of more important things in life to get bent out of shape over.

However, I challenge developers to take the high road here. Instead of punishing the goofs who are too worried about loosing rank or whatever justification there may be, why not try instead of rewarding those who are willing to try to overcome insurmountable odds.

I mean if you can code in soft bans would it really be that hard for the game to monitor handicap and apply boosts to try to level it out? Say 4v3 grant a 25% speed boost, 4v2 a 25% speed + 25 % armor 4v1 25% speed + 25% armor + 25% health or something of the like

this whole thing reminds me of growing up in a big family. When one kid was doing something and it wasnt fair that you didnt get to do it too, did your parents ever let you do it because you were complaining about it? No, they punished the offending kid for their action, and then punished you for tattling.

This seems just like the wrong way to go IMHO

 

[nofear220]

I'm gonna say this right out: Bungie are douchebags now. If I'm new to Halo and accidentally get stuck in a match full of pros, should I just suck it up now? If I'm not okay with the game, I should have the right to leave. Even worse, what if your interrupted while gaming and have to go. If this happens some times, then what? First that bonus for PC gamers, now this? Thank you, Bungie, you've made me not want to buy this game.

It's true, ragequitters are a problem, but it's better off when they leave, otherwise they'll just whine and not care. I've played Halo 3 very much, and I've been stuck in impossible games over and over. It's not fun to have to quit. And I think it's my bloody right to leave the game if I'm not having fun. Shouldn't it be fun for everyone?

Sorry but I just have to quote you for being so right. Also what happens if Im just playing around but have to leave in a couple mins? Seriously, fuck Bungie, halo went on a downward spiral right after Halo:CE for the PC (which is one of the best games ever).

 

[MurderousToaster]

I don't really quit from much except MW2 because of how fucking infuriating that game is. As a solution to the "quitter problem", Bungie could do what other companies have done and turn join in progress on.

 

[ender214]

Seems like a bad idea.

If implemented well, it would create a small increase in the quality of the game's community.

If implemented poorly, it would irritate large portions of a fan base that find themselves locked out of a good portion of the game's experience.

Seems like they're risking a lot for a little.

 

[IBlackKiteI]

Seems like a bad idea.

If implemented well, it would create a small increase in the quality of the game's community.

If implemented poorly, it would irritate large portions of a fan base that find themselves locked out of a good portion of the game's experience.

Seems like they're risking a lot for a little.

After all these guys whining about it someone sees it as the black and white deal it is.

Thank you good sir.

 

[v3n0mat3]

Ummm... Bungie... I really don't think that that's a good idea.

 

[Ekit]

I think it's a good thing that they're trying to stop shit like that from happening and I think that if it works it will be great. However, if the system turns out to be flawed it will be one of the worst things in video-games.

 

[Obsidian Rocker]

SNIP

Way to miss my point there, camp

EDIT:

Sorry, mistook your post for someone elses

Okay, seriously:

Rage quitters are annoying yes this is true and it's a fact that people already screw around in different gametypes as well in other games with the noob tubing and such.
But the thing is, rage quitting can actually completely mess up the balance of the game and I'm not just talking about team sizes changing.

I've played games where the connection completely died just because someone left halfway through and the whole thing had to reset. Other times where the host left and it had to be changed halfway through so the speed suddenly slowed down to unplayable proportions.
People who rage quit and do it frequently can actually completely mess up entire matches altogether and if they know that this behavior is being monitored, in theory they will stop doing it.

Fair enough, but my point is that people have paid Bungie their hard earned money (Or parents money, depending on the age) and Bungie have NO right whatsoever to tell people they're not allowed to leave mid-game. That's just taking the utter micky, whether it causes a temporary connection issue or not. Yes, it's annoying when people leave mid game but when I properly think about, I just have to grit my teeth and bear it because, whether people like it or not, you're allowed to leave mid-game. It breaks no rules. I know it's only about a 20 minute ban but a ban's a ban and it's just Bungie letting their "Success" get to their head.

 

[VanityGirl]

Thankfully, Halo doesn't have as many glitches as MW, so I won't be quitting because of cheating douches.

Fair enough, but my point is that people have paid Bungie their hard earned money (Or parents money, depending on the age) and Bungie have NO right whatsoever to tell people they're not allowed to leave mid-game. That's just taking the utter micky, whether it causes a temprary connection issue or not. You can always just find another game.

Also, Bungie is only going to punish people who quit an excessive amount in a short time. Like if someone quit 10 times in 15 minutes. That's a tad bit excessive.
Also, they'll only 'ban' you for 20-ish minutes. You get suspended from the game for a bit, it's not a permaban or anything.

And people who spend their hard earned money who continue to quit are stopping other people who also spent their hardearned money from enjoying the game.

 

[Obsidian Rocker]

I don't really quit from much except MW2 because of how fucking infuriating that game is. As a solution to the "quitter problem", Bungie could do what other companies have done and turn join in progress on.

I second this. What the hell's so wrong with letting people join in progress anyway?

 

[Obsidian Rocker]

Thankfully, Halo doesn't have as many glitches as MW, so I won't be quitting because of cheating douches.

Fair enough, but my point is that people have paid Bungie their hard earned money (Or parents money, depending on the age) and Bungie have NO right whatsoever to tell people they're not allowed to leave mid-game. That's just taking the utter micky, whether it causes a temprary connection issue or not. You can always just find another game.

Also, Bungie is only going to punish people who quit an excessive amount in a short time. Like if someone quit 10 times in 15 minutes. That's a tad bit excessive.
Also, they'll only 'ban' you for 20-ish minutes. You get suspended from the game for a bit, it's not a permaban or anything.

And people who spend their hard earned money who continue to quit are stopping other people who also spent their hardearned money from enjoying the game.

If someone wants to pay to constantly leave a game then by all means, on they go. Whatever floats their boat. I highly doubt that the person in question is going to keep joining the same game I'm in 10 times in a row. Maybe then I could see a LITTLE annoyance. I think bungie is just taking things WAY too seriously. It's a video game for Christ's sakes. and I know people could use that argument on me but I just don't like seeing people throwing their weight around

 

[Glamorgan]

Unless they somehow completely remove lag problems, this is effectively just screwing the community.
EDIT: Then again, the Sonic team has been doing that for ages, and people still buy their games

 

[VanityGirl]

If someone wants to pay to constantly leave a game then by all means, on they go. Whatever floats their boat. I highly doubt that the person in question is going to keep joining the same game I'm in 10 times in a row. Maybe then I could see a LITTLE annoyance. I think bungie is just taking things WAY too seriously. It's a video game for Christ's sakes. and I know people could use that argument on me but I just don't like seeing people throwing their weight around

I understand what you're saying, but many people will think it is a good idea. Halo has a bad problem with quitters. MW2 doesn't have this problem so much, I'm not sure why, but very rarely do full rooms quit.

What sucks about quitters is that if your team quits and you're left, you may end up quitting because 4-6 on 1 is unfair.

I definately understand what you're saying though.

 

[MurderousToaster]

I don't really quit from much except MW2 because of how fucking infuriating that game is. As a solution to the "quitter problem", Bungie could do what other companies have done and turn join in progress on.

I second this. What the hell's so wrong with letting people join in progress anyway?

I can see why joining in progress would be a bad thing in FFAs, you'd be loads of kills down. But, also, people leave for reasons, I guess. You don't want to be put into a game where you're getting humped or are about to lose.

 

[viranimus]

Well if the beta was any indication its not really bad. I mean I know its a tragedy to upset the ADD fueled ragequitting halo fanatic who tends to forget that its a video game and its not the end of the world. But I think for the average person, its fine. Wouldnt be the way I would handle it.

Hell, perhaps they should take a page from L4Ds multiplayer mechanics and allow drop in drop out play instead. I mean having to wait for matchmaking lobby to pair you with a group is soooo 2005

 

[hyperdrachen]

This is a dumb plan, quitters have never irritated me enough for me to desire decisive action against them. I guess theyre getting alot of ***** mail from all the "elite pros" and listening to it too hard. Personally when i have people quit out in my matches I just make a new game out of it. See how long i can hide, or how many laps i can do with the mongoose before i get whacked. Or if players on the other team quit I dick around in similair fashion. I'm not sure how well the player review works... but something like that should be the extent of handling this. If i think a guys a quitter and i don't want to play with him let matchmaking take care of that. I have a fealing the people clammoring for this feature are the same people that put together thier 4 man MLG team and go rampage around on social matchmaking, use the most brutal tactics and oppressive sniping positions and get mad when the guys that get on to play bumper cars in vehicles and blast away with thier assault rifles decide to go play elsewhere.

Hell I've experienced far more aggrevation in the face of abusive in game tactics (sniping is a big one to me) than I ever have, having teamates quit. I don't do much quiting out of game matches but this is a bit harsh, and i don't like seeing any implication that me choosing to be done playing should be a problem. Especially since this implies that entering a game, obligates me to stay there for the duration... which is alot more like a job... which is the whole thing I play gaming to get away from.

 

[Enigma6667]

I find that a tad unfair. I'm the kind of guy whose really busy doing other shit, and if there's something more important than the game, which happens a fair amount, then I'll just quit, without going "OMG GUYZ FIVE MOAR MINUTES" or something like that. Their intentions are okay, I guess, since there are, in fact, douchebags everywhere you go in Xbox LIVE, but I can see this system biting them in the ass.

If you're literally gonna ban people from quitting, at least make it a temporary ban. Maybe a couple of hours, a day or two. Maybe that's what they have in mind, but either way, it's still pretty flawed.

 

[Jed Petty]

Pfft get a better internet connection and only play ifyou know you have time lol. I'm sure if you drop a few matches here and there it wont affect you. Habitually dropping though... I agree suspend or ban them. Most matches last 10 minutes.. If you cannot commit that much time even if your "bored" or your "friends" want you to join them RIGHT THIS SECOND OMG! then dont play at all!