Having difficulty understanding transgendered people? I'll try to help.

FPLOON

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Well, I got two different questions, I guess...

1. How do transgender people feel about the general representation of Futanaris (or Futas for short) in terms of "live-action", animation, and, especially, in various doujins (both original and parody-related)?

and

2. [In an "unrelated" note...] Are there any good websites that could help someone like me get into crossdressing in terms of wearing casual "every day" attire?
 

Beliyal

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thaluikhain said:
Hmmm...been wondering, what's the better way of saying something like "born a boy, but is now a girl"?
I've heard that a descriptive term that is acceptable would be "assigned male at birth" and "assigned female at birth" (for short, AMAB and AFAB). I'm not trans though, but this is something I've heard several trans people using.

flying_whimsy said:
KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:
I think(for whatever reason) Cisgender is a bad/offensive term.
The only time I've ever heard cisgender used has been as a derogatory term.
Really? I've seen the term used hundreds of times and never as derogatory. Could you give me an example maybe? Because I can't fathom how it could be read as derogatory. It doesn't have any historical or social negative meaning attached to it, it's merely a descriptor. Transgender isn't derogatory either. It's just the word "gender" with an added Latin prefix that signifies opposites and comes in handy to avoid using loaded and problematic words such as "normal"/"abnormal".
 

JoJo

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Snowfox_ said:
At the same time we have the freedom to not acknowledge an identity choice for our own conclusions, and I'm uncomfortable with trannies being allowed into bathrooms that don't match their biological sex.
Out of interest, would you feel comfortable with this individual using the women's restrooms?

 

lionsprey

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i have a few questions regarding transgender people that has been nagging at me for a few days now. or well its really only one but here goes.
Transvestite is not the same thing as transgender correct?
and from what i have gathered on this forum not all transgender people desire surgery correct?
i have seen mentioned the gay comparison about "hiding oneself" but if you don't want to dress as the opposite gender or change your "parts" to the opposite gender then what is there to hide? surely nothing short off walking around loudly announcing that you are transgender would tip people of at that point.
so i feel like i'm missing some information or one or more of my assumptions are wrong.
 

Poetic Nova

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I'm not the OP, but I'll try to help around.


lionsprey said:
i have a few questions regarding transgender people that has been nagging at me for a few days now. or well its really only one but here goes.
Transvestite is not the same thing as transgender correct?
Correct.
Transvestites are people who dress as the opposite gender. However it gets used as a offensive term towards transgendered people. Atleast around here, not fun to hear.

lionsprey said:
and from what i have gathered on this forum not all transgender people desire surgery correct?
Can't speak for everyone, but I would gladly gett rid of what's between my legs, so to speak. But there are things that would prevent one from gender reassignment surgery: costs when it isn't covered by your health care is one of them.

lionsprey said:
i have seen mentioned the gay comparison about "hiding oneself" but if you don't want to dress as the opposite gender or change your "parts" to the opposite gender then what is there to hide? surely nothing short off walking around loudly announcing that you are transgender would tip people of at that point.
so i feel like i'm missing some information or one or more of my assumptions are wrong.
Sorry if I understood your wrong on this part, but anyway:

Personally, I'm hiding it (now that I still can) in fear of being judged (social anxiety aho!). There's still too much violence against anyone who is not straight and/or cisgendered.
 

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Twintix said:
PaulH said:
...You know, now that I think about it, it might not have anything to do with pretending that biological sex doesn't exist after all. I sorta assumed that the parents wouldn't let the kid know its birth gender, which I guess was kinda stupid of me.

I still don't think this is a good way to go about it, but it might not be as insanely politically correct as I initially believed.
I personally see it as 'democratizing classification' ... make it something a kid can elect into later on, or not at all. Basic principles of liberty and placing self-construction and expression at the fore of human rights. The logical process of liberalism.
 

Redryhno

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PaulH said:
Twintix said:
PaulH said:
...You know, now that I think about it, it might not have anything to do with pretending that biological sex doesn't exist after all. I sorta assumed that the parents wouldn't let the kid know its birth gender, which I guess was kinda stupid of me.

I still don't think this is a good way to go about it, but it might not be as insanely politically correct as I initially believed.
I personally see it as 'democratizing classification' ... make it something a kid can elect into later on, or not at all. Basic principles of liberty and placing self-construction and expression at the fore of human rights. The logical process of liberalism.
Seems more like confusing a bunch of kids if that ever becomes commonplace to me...

Kids are smart enough to understand things, but they still need some solids in their world, especially around puberty, and your gender seems like something to me that doesn't need to be one of those "Oh, we're just gonna let you decide today after years of referring to you as neither" things.

It's like one of those "We'll raise you the way that helps the way you were born first best that we know of" things to me, and then readjust it if it becomes detrimental to them in some way.
 

Poetic Nova

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piscian said:
Why is it an insult? Have you never dressed in clothing of the opposite sex(of your actual gender you were born with.)?
I came out pretty late so most of my lifetime I've been wearing boys cloths, still do in public. But that is another can of worms I won't be opening.

It might stem from a lack of understanding, but when that person knows what it means it can come across as an insult. There are still people who think that transvestite and transgender mean the same thing, maybe they don't mean it in an insulting way, but one can perceive it as one. Again, I can only speak from my own POV, so others might experience it diffirently.
 

tippy2k2

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I've never had any issue whatsoever with Transgender and whatnot. In fact, the question I have is more curiosity about portrayal in media than anything. These are some heavy "Sons of Anarchy" spoilers so if the OP hasn't seen it, I would not be offended or upset or anything if you skipped my question; it's not terribly important, just curious :)

What do you think about the shows portrayal of Venus? She (played by Walton Goggins) has breasts and dresses in woman's clothing/makeup and was born a man and still has a penis. She proclaims herself a woman, although she does eventually tell Tig that she will never get the surgery to actually remove it.

She is treated...not poorly by the biker gang but she's obviously a walking joke to them. When she was introduced, she was used in order to embarrass someone (blackmail purposes). She's treated as basically a joke except for Tigs, who shows more and more interest in her until eventually, he professes that he loves her. She attempts to reject him, saying that he only loves her because he's into the outcasts of society and that it gets him off being with a "freak". He calms her down and has a nice little heart to heart with her about how he can truly be himself, mistakes and all, because he feels she can understand him with her demons she struggles with. She still is treated with...disrespect isn't the right word but she's still a bit of a joke to everyone else on the show except for Tigs.

I'm just curious how a transgender person feels about that kind of portrayal. From what I've seen through TV/movies, that was likely the best portrayal a transgender has gotten in media but she's still considered a pretty big joke by most people on the show. Just curious your thoughts on her.
 

Addendum_Forthcoming

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Redryhno said:
Seems more like confusing a bunch of kids if that ever becomes commonplace to me...

Kids are smart enough to understand things, but they still need some solids in their world, especially around puberty, and your gender seems like something to me that doesn't need to be one of those "Oh, we're just gonna let you decide today after years of referring to you as neither" things.

It's like one of those "We'll raise you the way that helps the way you were born first best that we know of" things to me, and then readjust it if it becomes detrimental to them in some way.
Which most parents (hopefully) will do anyways. But I don't think it helps for those outside the family unit or immediate associates to see children as sexed beings beyond the basics of medicine and education. I don't think it's healthy for a government or a society to do that, imho. Nor do I think people do it to begin with. I was in the education system and I didn't see the kids as male or female, but rather referred to them as they act. The only place I can think of where this might be a positive is sex education where you treart adults-to-be as sexed beings.

But I don't think it would 'confuse' the children anymore than gender confuses them now. And arbitrarily treating them as sexed beings likely adds to this discord and promotes some fairly unhealthy behaviour from adults towards kids to begin with. Naturally, the ambiguity of this disappears when you get to medicine or sex education. It's directly in the person's interest, but beyond this it just seems kind of weirdly possessive of a society to do of its youth.

A lot of this would be avoided if they just made it something you elect into when you apply for the voting registry at 18, and then can bleed onto other official government documentation from them on if an adult so chooses. Not only that but they're an adult by then and should be treated in most aspects like one.

Boys will still be boys (as loose as it applies now), and girls will still be girls (as loose as it applies now), and people who don't care for either don't feel they need to because they don't have government papers classifying them as per their papers from birth.

If self-expression and the liberalization of expression is a good thing, then you should logically promote it. If we assume adults have the same right, then why not assume that people are capable of fostering their self and their societal connections when they reach adult age? It would also make it less of an issue for those with transgender children trying to validate their rightful ownership of identity WITHOUT all the needless suffering of government bureaucracy.

Nobody benefits under the current systems of classification.

(Edit) If we just assume children and adults are as their gender identity, rather than arbitrarily assuming as much from the broken ideology that sex = ought to be, the better off the kids are, the more grounded governmental operation would be, the less unhealthy would be the 'gaze' by society on its youth. Basic liberty in election and self-construction. Liberty is a good thing. Don't be afraid of it, grab it by the reins and ride it wherever you want to go.

It would also be of a boon to those like myself, who are XXY and given incomplete and late puberty and some strange development periods to say the least! It's unhealthy to have a society say; "You are a man." Especially when you have partial breast growth, an hourglass figure and observe people like Kevin Sorbo on TV as Hercules, and physically incapable of all those 'manly' things like rugby.

THAT'S what screws up a kid. Being treated like some indivisible whole concept of manhood or womanhood when it is a depiction that even if one tries they cannot live up to.
 

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KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:
I think(for whatever reason) Cisgender is a bad/offensive term.
Simply put it's not. It's a way us trans people use to define people with a gender identity that matches their birth sex. I am not going to other myself by counting you as "normal" for being born and feeling one way, so don't do that to me. As for people who use the term as an insult? Well they're jerks, just like people who use the term "normal" to insult others. Don't be a jerk either way is all I ask.

So anything else on your mind? I'll do my best to help.
If a boy identifies as a boy is it not simpler to just call him a boy? and a girl that identifies as a girl a girl? I don't think there is any need to bring the term 'normal' into it.

I am only saying this because most instances where I have come across the term 'cis' have been mostly negative. Mostly I have heard it from extremely bitter people on youtube or other places on the internet. The hate and venom that certain people put into the word is rather surprising and quite sad.
 

SonOfVoorhees

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Im happy for a trans person to be happy and live their life how they want. Just tell the person your dating you are a transgen so people have their choice. I had a gay guy ask me out and i said im straight and there wasnt a problem. Same thing with trans people. Just live how you want to live just dont hide it from your dates. You have the right to be whom you are but also other people have the right to know whom they are dating.
 

Poetic Nova

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carlsberg export said:
I am only saying this because most instances where I have come across the term 'cis' have been mostly negative. Mostly I have heard it from extremely bitter people on youtube or other places on the internet. The hate and venom that certain people put into the word is rather surprising and quite sad.
The meaning of certain words gets easily mangled, sadly enough. General misunderstanding or otherwise.
 

Tiger King

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0takuMetalhead said:
carlsberg export said:
I am only saying this because most instances where I have come across the term 'cis' have been mostly negative. Mostly I have heard it from extremely bitter people on youtube or other places on the internet. The hate and venom that certain people put into the word is rather surprising and quite sad.
The meaning of certain words gets easily mangled, sadly enough. General misunderstanding or otherwise.
I think that can be a reason why certain terms can be offensive but in most instances where I heard the term, a lot of emphasis was put on the 'cis' part making it feel quite derogatory.

My laptops spell check isn't acknowledging cis as a word either. Perhaps this is the best reason not to use the term :p
 

Poetic Nova

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carlsberg export said:
0takuMetalhead said:
carlsberg export said:
I am only saying this because most instances where I have come across the term 'cis' have been mostly negative. Mostly I have heard it from extremely bitter people on youtube or other places on the internet. The hate and venom that certain people put into the word is rather surprising and quite sad.
The meaning of certain words gets easily mangled, sadly enough. General misunderstanding or otherwise.
I think that can be a reason why certain terms can be offensive but in most instances where I heard the term, a lot of emphasis was put on the 'cis' part making it feel quite derogatory.

My laptops spell check isn't acknowledging cis as a word either. Perhaps this is the best reason not to use the term :p
Ha! I love this kind of humor. So kudo's for that.
But yeah, the emphasis alone is what the meaning of a word can change. But it is normally ment in a friendly way really, it just falls victim to what I've said inmy first reply to you.
 

Redryhno

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0takuMetalhead said:
carlsberg export said:
I am only saying this because most instances where I have come across the term 'cis' have been mostly negative. Mostly I have heard it from extremely bitter people on youtube or other places on the internet. The hate and venom that certain people put into the word is rather surprising and quite sad.
The meaning of certain words gets easily mangled, sadly enough. General misunderstanding or otherwise.
Most of the time I think most of the problem comes from most uses(that's alot of mosts) being surrounded by venom and a bunch of negativity. Whether or not it is being used as derogatory(personally, most uses are to me because of this), there's just too many instances of it being used as the former, and very little of the latter.

Not to mention the proliferation of other words meant fully as confrontational branching off of it like my favorite cis-plain, cis-normativityed, cis-complain, etc. All the while the people using them not accepting the same stuff like trans-plain being thrown back at them in an effort to show them how silly they're being.

I do have to ask, why would anybody want to wear women's clothing if not just for a fun few hours if they don't have a woman's body though? Don't listen to Alex from LRR, dresses are supremely uncomfortable the couple of times I've worn them(very long stories) and I still have trouble understanding how most heels (and suits) have stayed around for so long.
 

DarkRawen

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KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:
How about terminology?
This is a complicated subject. Some see everyone with different gender identity than their birth sex as transsexual, others don't. For some people transsexual can be a dirty word, or it can apply exclusively to people who want gender reassignment surgery. Transgender is often considered the most acceptable term, trans is generally seen as fine as well. Some terms are absolutely not okay. For example; Tranny, Shemale, New Half, Trap, Dickgirl, and Cuntboy are generally considered unacceptable. One reason is those tend to be pornography terms, but they're also unflattering, and have negative stereotypes applied to them. Some people do own them, or find them acceptable, but generally they should be avoided. Aside from that there are lots of terms to identify how someone is transgender. If you're unsure how someone identifies them self as transgender it's usually smart to ask them. Just remember that each trans person might define them self, or like terms that are generally considered bad. They also might hate terms that are usually considered safe. So when in doubt, ask. Finally as a term transgender can be broad, including drag queens/kings, and part time cross dressers, but not everyone thinks as it as inclusive. So don't walk on eggshells, but try to be polite.
>_> I have to admit that I'm not too keen on being grouped in with otherkin and whatnot. Partly because I don't agree with how the more vocal ones treat people.

OT: Personally I'd like to add that there's some idea that every transgendered person has deep mental issues, which is simply not true. Feeling that your sex don't match your gender doesn't make you some raving maniac with tons of baggage, nor does wanting to transition mean you have low self esteem. In several places (Norway and the UK from what experience I do have) I have been examined and told that being allowed to transition is passing through the eye of a needle. In Norway, you will have your chances significantly lessened if you've ever gotten a mental diagnosis in your life apart from GID, and you can forget even being considered if you currently suffer from anything, even things like depression which can follow Gender Identity Disorder, partly to make sure you can deal with the stress of the transitioning, and because they have to make sure there is nothing else that could make you be wanting to transition. Past of bullying? Your chance just got worse. Basically, you have to be fairly "sane" to even be considered. Then there's wanting to transition at all, as some people seem to think that it means I hate myself or something like that. (spoiler, I don't).

I have a very curvy (as in, hour-glass shaped) body with a round face, generally female traits, and a high pitched voice. I have worn makeup maybe 10 times all together in my life, and I'm 20. I've worn baggy, often actually guy clothes since I was old enough to decide what clothes I wore. I've naturally spoken in a lower pitch than is comfortable for my voice, yet it's still about average for a woman, and I have had short hair since I was 6. I didn't even know I was transsexual before a year ago, born and raised a girl, it was just how I naturally did things. And, the fun thing? I have not once been mistaken (or correctly identified? I dunno dude) for a guy. I don't have to speak, I can just buy something at the store, and of course they reply with "miss". And I don't correct them, because that's not how I do things, I am very aware of that I look about as male as a pineapple.

My point is that we're not all drowning in bad self-esteem or depression, and that it's not something that naturally follows. Yes, sure, it can be pretty shitty to feel like someone made a pretty huge mistake when you were growing in a womb, but you know what makes me feel worse? Random strangers trying to either shield me because we're all so fragile, or who claims I can't go a day without hating myself. Most of the time, I don't let it get to me, but it does happen, which is why I'm writing this stupid post. :p Personally I just get annoyed, but I'm sure someone with more emotional depth than me could get a lot sadder.

Anyways, that's it, peace out or whatever the kids say these days(Or 3 years ago, who's keeping count).
 

Rahkshi500

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Good thing that this thread was made. I'm a member of a particular small forum where members like to throw the term "trap" around a lot, mostly aimed at males who are physically androgynous on the feminine side enough to be mistaken for females at first glance(whether they're trans or not depends on the character). Either way, I've tried to reason with some of the members there on why it's not a good word to use, but plenty of the objected to it for one reason or another.
 

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0takuMetalhead said:
carlsberg export said:
0takuMetalhead said:
carlsberg export said:
I am only saying this because most instances where I have come across the term 'cis' have been mostly negative. Mostly I have heard it from extremely bitter people on youtube or other places on the internet. The hate and venom that certain people put into the word is rather surprising and quite sad.
The meaning of certain words gets easily mangled, sadly enough. General misunderstanding or otherwise.
I think that can be a reason why certain terms can be offensive but in most instances where I heard the term, a lot of emphasis was put on the 'cis' part making it feel quite derogatory.

My laptops spell check isn't acknowledging cis as a word either. Perhaps this is the best reason not to use the term :p
Ha! I love this kind of humor. So kudo's for that.
But yeah, the emphasis alone is what the meaning of a word can change. But it is normally ment in a friendly way really, it just falls victim to what I've said inmy first reply to you.
Glad I made someone smile today.
indeed, emphasis is important. a few years ago there was a big racism story in the English premier football league. A player was alleged to have called another an 'effing black c word'.
I remember one journalist writing how it was ironic that when printed in newspapers, the only word not blanked out was the word 'black' yet it was the word that made the sentence racist.

Sorry to anyone if I went off topic there I just felt that was a good example of where a word is emphasised into becoming negative.