Having difficulty understanding transgendered people? I'll try to help.

Poetic Nova

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Redryhno said:
Most of the time I think most of the problem comes from most uses(that's alot of mosts) being surrounded by venom and a bunch of negativity. Whether or not it is being used as derogatory(personally, most uses are to me because of this), there's just too many instances of it being used as the former, and very little of the latter.
I sadly have to agree with you on this part.
If it happend on the 'wonderfull' internet, being anonymous only helps causing this kind of vileness.

Redryhno said:
Not to mention the proliferation of other words meant fully as confrontational branching off of it like my favorite cis-plain, cis-normativityed, cis-complain, etc. All the while the people using them not accepting the same stuff like trans-plain being thrown back at them in an effort to show them how silly they're being.
I have to admit, other than cisgender I have never heared of any other words used with 'cis' slapped onto it (for a lack of a better word). Sorry that I cannot say much about this.

Redryhno said:
I do have to ask, why would anybody want to wear women's clothing if not just for a fun few hours if they don't have a woman's body though? Don't listen to Alex from LRR, dresses are supremely uncomfortable the couple of times I've worn them(very long stories) and I still have trouble understanding how most heels (and suits) have stayed around for so long.
Got lucky that I have a rather feminine body shape, which I'm happy about. Still missing up front so to speak but a dress fits me well.
The problem is rather that a corset can and will hurt my lower back.
 

Poetic Nova

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Rahkshi500 said:
Good thing that this thread was made. I'm a member of a particular small forum where members like to throw the term "trap" around a lot, mostly aimed at males who are physically androgynous on the feminine side enough to be mistaken for females at first glance(whether they're trans or not depends on the character). Either way, I've tried to reason with some of the members there on why it's not a good word to use, but plenty of the objected to it for one reason or another.
What bothers me is that 'shemale' is still a word that gets thrown around. And it already feels wrong for me to type that word.
 

Redryhno

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Rahkshi500 said:
Good thing that this thread was made. I'm a member of a particular small forum where members like to throw the term "trap" around a lot, mostly aimed at males who are physically androgynous on the feminine side enough to be mistaken for females at first glance(whether they're trans or not depends on the character). Either way, I've tried to reason with some of the members there on why it's not a good word to use, but plenty of the objected to it for one reason or another.
Depending on where the forum is and what it's about, alot of it may have to do with it mainly being a joke. I don't really see why it'd be seen as anything but that. I mean, there was a thread a few months back about someone going and "fighting against sexism" in Smite on their forums and getting pushback when the audience told them to slag off because they were fine with it and to just not play since the thread creator had said they weren't interested in the game to begin with.

"******"'s a chan greeting and is the equivalent of buddy and has been for years, console peasant's a joke as well, not to mention the "git gud" mentality of the Souls community being taken seriously far too often. It's all just jokes most of the time on the internet. Trap's just short-hand for a really good cross-dresser most of the time in anime at least.

0takuMetalhead said:
Redryhno said:
Most of the time I think most of the problem comes from most uses(that's alot of mosts) being surrounded by venom and a bunch of negativity. Whether or not it is being used as derogatory(personally, most uses are to me because of this), there's just too many instances of it being used as the former, and very little of the latter.

Not to mention the proliferation of other words meant fully as confrontational branching off of it like my favorite cis-plain, cis-normativityed, cis-complain, etc. All the while the people using them not accepting the same stuff like trans-plain being thrown back at them in an effort to show them how silly they're being.
I have to admit, other than cisgender I have never heared of any words used with 'cis' slapped onto it (for a lack of a better word). Sorry that I cannot say much about this.

Got lucky that I have a rather feminine body shape, which I'm happy about. Still missing up front so to speak but a dress fits me well.
The problem is rather that a corset can and will hurt my lower back.
Really? Most trans-issue threads on here anymore have at least one person with a couple posts with those words in them.

But I suppose having a feminine shape would help.
 

Poetic Nova

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Redryhno said:
Really? Most trans-issue threads on here anymore have at least one person with a couple posts with those words in them.
I'm not always active around here, which is most likely why.
 

Rahkshi500

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Redryhno said:
Rahkshi500 said:
Good thing that this thread was made. I'm a member of a particular small forum where members like to throw the term "trap" around a lot, mostly aimed at males who are physically androgynous on the feminine side enough to be mistaken for females at first glance(whether they're trans or not depends on the character). Either way, I've tried to reason with some of the members there on why it's not a good word to use, but plenty of the objected to it for one reason or another.
Depending on where the forum is and what it's about, alot of it may have to do with it mainly being a joke. I don't really see why it'd be seen as anything but that. I mean, there was a thread a few months back about someone going and "fighting against sexism" in Smite on their forums and getting pushback when the audience told them to slag off because they were fine with it and to just not play since the thread creator had said they weren't interested in the game to begin with.

"******"'s a chan greeting and is the equivalent of buddy and has been for years, console peasant's a joke as well, not to mention the "git gud" mentality of the Souls community being taken seriously far too often. It's all just jokes most of the time on the internet. Trap's just short-hand for a really good cross-dresser most of the time in anime at least.
Because the term "trap" implies deception and trickery, that the one whose trans or just a good crossdresser were trying to fool you and deceive you. None of them were even trying to deceive nor trick anyone. A crossdresser would just wanna crossdress because they like the feminine clothes and wanna wear them. But it's those who mistook them for the other gender project onto them that they're actually trying to deceive them when there's no deception at work at all. This is actually one of the fundamental issues that trans people, and to lesser extent crossdressers, face a lot of discrimination and ridicule from, because many have been assaulted or even murdered to these underlying reasons. It's a horrible term because one's accusing, or even implying them of something that they're not even doing at all.
 

Redryhno

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0takuMetalhead said:
Redryhno said:
Really? Most trans-issue threads on here anymore have at least one person with a couple posts with those words in them.
I'm not always active around here, which is most likely why.
That would explain it, coulda sworn I've seen your avatar, but that could just be the Erin-Mania that's been going on with avatars, I'm terrible with names.
 

Poetic Nova

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Redryhno said:
0takuMetalhead said:
Redryhno said:
Really? Most trans-issue threads on here anymore have at least one person with a couple posts with those words in them.
I'm not always active around here, which is most likely why.
That would explain it, coulda sworn I've seen your avatar, but that could just be the Erin-Mania that's been going on with avatars, I'm terrible with names.
Well, it's not impossible that I've posted in threads where those kind of words are being used. I admittedly don't always take the time to read every post. But this goes off-topic.
 

Tsukuyomi

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interesting post, and rather informative to boot. Interestingly a friend of mine has told me that they are intending to go from one gender to the other, and it has put myself and a mutual friend into a bit of moral checkmate, so I've been trying to read a bit more from other people who have gone through the experience to hopefully give me some insight. Since we're on this topic, if no one minds, I'd like to ask a question:

In regards to our friend, we are both committed to being supportive of the decision. Either to go forward with going from one gender to the other or not or thinking about it or whatever they decide, we want to be supportive. On the other hand we're kind of concerned that our friend MIGHT be rushing into the idea or may be doing it because they think it's how to deal with the feelings they've been having. One bad joke that's gone across my head is that they've been spending too much time on Tumblr, but I digress.

I'm just wondering: Is there a way I can tactfully broach the subject of their motives while still making it clear that I support them? I don't want them to NOT do this if it's really what they want. As I said: I'm willing to support them. It's only fair and it's the right thing to do. If they feel this is the decision they want to make, more power to them. It just seems really sudden to both myself and my friend and we're stuck between being concerned and feeling bad because it feels like our concerns might come off as intolerant, which we are not and do not want to be.
 

rednose1

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Where did the term "Cis" come from? Trans/bi/gay/decpticon, all those I remember being around for a long time, but then Cis came along and no one has told me yet where it comes from. What happened to njust being g called straight? I was fine with that.
 

KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime

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rednose1 said:
Where did the term "Cis" come from? Trans/bi/gay/decpticon, all those I remember being around for a long time, but then Cis came along and no one has told me yet where it comes from. What happened to njust being g called straight? I was fine with that.
It apparently popped up in the nineties some time, it was coined by a sexologist named Volkmar Sigusch. Since then it's been fairly widly adopted.
 

DementedSheep

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rednose1 said:
Where did the term "Cis" come from? Trans/bi/gay/decpticon, all those I remember being around for a long time, but then Cis came along and no one has told me yet where it comes from. What happened to njust being g called straight? I was fine with that.
I'm not the OP and I don't know where the cis came from (dose it really matter? it just a 3 letter suffix which is occasionally useful when specifically talking about trans issue and it's not like implies something offensive) but straight dose not mean not trans. Straight means you are attracted to the o/s and not the s/s and is in contrast to being gay or bi. It has nothing to do with what gender you identify with. A transgendered person can be straight, bi or gay aswell.
 

Addendum_Forthcoming

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Tsukuyomi said:
interesting post, and rather informative to boot. Interestingly a friend of mine has told me that they are intending to go from one gender to the other, and it has put myself and a mutual friend into a bit of moral checkmate, so I've been trying to read a bit more from other people who have gone through the experience to hopefully give me some insight. Since we're on this topic, if no one minds, I'd like to ask a question:

In regards to our friend, we are both committed to being supportive of the decision. Either to go forward with going from one gender to the other or not or thinking about it or whatever they decide, we want to be supportive. On the other hand we're kind of concerned that our friend MIGHT be rushing into the idea or may be doing it because they think it's how to deal with the feelings they've been having. One bad joke that's gone across my head is that they've been spending too much time on Tumblr, but I digress.

I'm just wondering: Is there a way I can tactfully broach the subject of their motives while still making it clear that I support them? I don't want them to NOT do this if it's really what they want. As I said: I'm willing to support them. It's only fair and it's the right thing to do. If they feel this is the decision they want to make, more power to them. It just seems really sudden to both myself and my friend and we're stuck between being concerned and feeling bad because it feels like our concerns might come off as intolerant, which we are not and do not want to be.
If you don't mind, I can sort of field this question a little. Most experiences are kind of different and every trans person gets the whole spectrum of responses once they come out publicly.

A lot of the times, a decision like this might seem 'really sudden', given when I came out to friends three of them said; "Took your sweet time in confiding in me about something I already knew...", the rest seems shocked and thought I was 'rushing a bit..." or something to that effect. Like ... it makes sense it seems sudden, mainly because when you come out it's usually one singular event. It's not like getting into a relationship with someone (platonic or otherwise), trust builds and so does affection. Coming out seems like a bulldozer in comparison however given that it's not something that happens in stages.

The thing is, if your friend is like me, I was questioning my gender identity since I was 4 ... I also had a lot of negative reactions from family members early on that left me on the street. Even more negative reactions from youth halfway homes which are predominantly run by Christian organizations with some ... vocal operations staff.

So the idea of coming out to people was particularly hard, because I was terrified of what could happen. With roommates, with people in general. It's a bit hard not to be. So whilst it might seem really sudden, in most cases it's actually been something they've been thinking about their entire lives.

I don't think it's bad to broach the subject, just be mindful both of you could be hurt. Them, for feeling like you question their decision, and you, because they may say exactly as I have done and you may feel like your trust had been betrayed. That you were being honest about yourself, and they were withholding their self from the equation. That being said, I think in the end you should take solace that your friend has entrusted you with this, and that in the end they'll know you care enough to worry about whether it's what they really want.

Just be mindful that your friend may say things you don't like to hear. Like the aforementioned trust thing. But also try to keep in mind that there might also be large social forces that may have also tried to silence them in the past with wholesale rejection given, well ... let's face it, trans people are still treated like dirt most places. They may have made up their minds long ago and may have simply been waiting on having the chance to transition, keeping themselves in the dark until then.

All things said, you seem to be doing a pretty good job of handling the situation!
 

KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime

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Well this thread caught fire just when I decided to get sick and my cooling solution quit... I'll do my best to answer questions presented already posed, but be aware they're from my point of view.

thaluikhain said:
Hmmm...been wondering, what's the better way of saying something like "born a boy, but is now a girl"?
That depends. Partly on weather or not the person in question had, or is going to have GRS... But personally I'd just say trans, or transgender. It applies well enough to everyone who is trans, doesn't sound judgemental on face value. Now if you want to get specific things like FTM or MTF are the easiest way to define a trans person from on the basis of their birth gender, to their identified gender.

ShyGuy said:
I must admit that I have some difficulty understanding transgendered people, so I have some questions. Please do not take them the wrong way, I mean no offence and I would hate to cause any, since you seem really nice and reasonable. I always wondered, do you think it should be viewed as a psychological disorder? Do you think it could or should be cured (for lack of a better word)?

Also, this is somewhat unrelated, but you mentionned that there were people born with two Y chromosomes and no X. How functional are those people? I seem to recall that the Y chromosome is much shorter than the X chromosome, and therefore, such people would lack an important amount of genetic information.
Gender disphoria can be considered a mental disorder. The DSM changed the definition to not class it as a mental disorder in the last edition released. I personally think it's a personality trait more than anything else. As for a cure? Well since every trans person is different, and has different objectives just being trans, I don't think a cure would be okay. It'd be making a fundamental personality change to someone, there are all sorts of moral issues with that. Now if you could make someone into the biological gender they identify as, that would d be neat, but not every trans person would want that.

People with two Y chromosomes is an interesting subject. I'd assume they'd tend to be haemophiliacs and color blind more often than virtually anyone else. Some assert they tend to be more violent, but it's not proven... But as far as I know they tend to be the same generally as people with typical genetics. Here's a fun fact though. The Y chromosome is the fastest evolving in humans.

TranshumanistG said:
What I find hard to wrap my head around is how transgenderism(I'm probably misusing the term, but what I mean is identifying one's gender as opposite of the assigned gender but don't wish to do any reassignment surgeries) fits in with feminism, particularly, the rejection of gender roles and not letting the gender define how one should act and live. For instance, if you conflate identifying as a female with 'feminine' behaviour, doesn't it support a gender role stereotype? Or is this completely different from how transgender people put their self-identification into practice?
To be honest feminists are such a diverse group finding two who agree on the simplest things can be a chore. That said, there are transfeminists, who have ideology just as diverse as typical feminists. There is no easy answer for this question just because people are weird and have a hard time agreeing on anything.

JoJo said:
ShyGuy said:
Also, this is somewhat unrelated, but you mentionned that there were people born with two Y chromosomes and no X. How functional are those people? I seem to recall that the Y chromosome is much shorter than the X chromosome, and therefore, such people would lack an important amount of genetic information.
That part must be a mistake on behalf of the OP, it is impossible for a human to survive to even birth with no X chromosome, there's too many important genes carried only on the X. There are men with an XYY combination, so that may be what the OP means, the rest of what she said about XX men, XY women and such is all correct though.
No there actual cases of double Y chromosome people with no X chromosome. Humans can survive weird things. Some people actually survive with a single sex chromosome. Technically having three sex chromosomes should be lethal, same with broken chromosomes(Down's syndrome).

necromanzer52 said:
KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:
or it can apply exclusively to people who want gender reassignment surgery.
This is actually something I've been wondering about lately. I've been reading a webcomic called validation, which is about a transwoman. It's been quite interesting and I've learned a fair bit, but one thing that confused me is that she mentions she still has a dick and has no intention of changing that. Now, obviously that's her choice, but it seems to me that if you feel like you were born as the wrong sex that having the wrong genitals would be one of, if not the most important aspect of that. Maybe you could shed some light on this?
It can be for some, for others it doesn't matter. I present full time as a woman, I have breasts, I've had some surgeries, but I don't intend to get gender reassignment surgery(GRS). For several reasons, for one it's a huge pain in the arse compared to changing something that I have no problem with. Also, though I don't generally do this, it's so convenient to stand to pee, and just being able to to it has saved me from peeing my self on occasion. Some trans people are alienated by their physical gender to the point where they need to change, some of us aren't. Identity doesn't control how comfortable we are with our bodies. Weird I know, but people are weird generally speaking.

Holy_Handgrenade said:
Hey, I am actually thankful for this opportunity, the few people I know who are transgender in real life I shy away from asking these questions for fear of offending. I fully understand and accept that people identify with a sex different from that which they were given at birth and we should help in every way we can for them to feel comfortable in their own bodies and be the sex they identify with. What I'm not 100% on is non binary this is largely just as I kind of view sex as pretty binary in that your parts can be male, female or in rare cases in between. I see gender as a social construct and that it doesn't really exist what sex you are exists and I think you should be able to change such. I see myself as possessing both traditionally masculine and feminine traits as I think almost everyone does but sex wise I identify as male. What I don't understand is when it comes to non binary people who are talking about gender why can't they say my sex is male or female but I have traits that are both masculine and feminine (if they want to literally be somewhere in between sex wise i.e hermiphrodite or some such that is A-Okay with me I was just wondering about the gender side). Also this might just be exposure to the more extreme opinions because no trans people I've met in person have said this but why are some trans people that against stating your sex in capacities where it is required such as medical in the UK under the NHS. Like just say I identify with this sex but currently I possess the physical attributes of this sex. Or if they have physically transitioned say I am now this sex but I was this sex? Thanks again if anything I've said is insensitive in anyway please call me out.
This is a good one! Gender roles and behaviour are a social construct, but we all identify differently. I mean I have masculine traits, was born a male, but identify as a female. Simply put, it can be just preference, or how we're wired up in the brain. No one has given a definitive answer on this, at least to my satisfaction, so it's just another case of "people are weird." Now on the last part. Transgender gender people tend to get abused a lot, so outting ourselves can be a horrific idea. That's why we often refuse to address the subject, it's dangerous, it's scary, and it's uncomfortable. Personally I'm rather open about it myself, but I'm a big girl, I can take care of myself, and I'm usually armed, not to mention that I'm also rather upfront about my self. Not every trans person is as open I am, and not every trans person makes a habit(or legally can make a habit) of carrying a gun like I do.

Kanova said:
I find Transphobia isn't actually a phobia, more like the person hates and finds trans disgusting.
"I am not going to other myself by counting you as "normal" for being born and feeling one way"
Well, straights are normal, whether someone likes it or not. That is the way people are supposed to be, and how the majority of people are. So that makes it normal. Being anything else is arguably an error in your mind and body. Now, I fall into the uncomfortable around trans people category. I don't have anything against you people, but I just can't stand being in the presence of them. I just find it disturbing. If you are a man, no amount of dick taping or hormones will change that. And seeing men go to the extent some do to be a different sex is just weird to me. Just how I am, no scare, no problem.
Fair enough, it's fine that you have your own personal view. All I ask is that you not make it my problem. If we met you'd probably see me as a female, unless I told you other wise. If I did tell you in person, I'd appreciate being treated as the person I project myself as, if you don't agree with it that's fine, but it would be rude for you to refer to me as a male. So we can differ on opinion, just be nice, and even if it means going out of your way, respect who I am, how I present, and what my foundries are. You'd do the same for a cisgender person to respect them, so do the same for me.

Queen Michael said:
KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:
We're all humans, but some people identify as non-human animals, or objects, for example.
Surely that must be totally different, though? I know several trans people, and they all actually behave as the gender they identify as. For instance, my pal Jacob goes to the grocery store, plays computer games, takes care of his pets and watches TV, just like other men do.[footnote]As do women too, of course, but that's beside the point.[/footnote] People who identiy as cats, though, don't act like cats[footnote]Except for sometimes making an active effort to be catlike by for instance meowing, which isn't the same thing as a cat meowing because it's the only way of talking that a cat knows.[/footnote] or think like them and -- no offense intended -- pretty clearly just want to be one, which isn't the same thing as being one.
Yes it's totally different, but at the same time it's a good analogy, and it's easy to understand. Alright? Also sometimes in person I respond to questions by tilting my head and saying: "Mew?" So we're all odd, the best we can do is try to understand eachother's oddness. By the way cats only meow to communicate a want, or need, to humans, isn't that strange?

Amaror said:
KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:
Ok i have a question, or rather more your opinion on something.
Back in, what in America would probably be high school, we had a girl in our class that as it turned out identified as a man.
Now over the time this lead to various complications, mainly with certain things that were based on gender. For example the changing room before sport or the public bathroom at the school.
I'll just refer to the person as a girl from now on, since that's what i started with, i hope that's not insensitive.
So as the time went on and she started the transision, she didn't tell anyone but you could notice, there arose these problems. She had confessed her love for one of the girls in our class, that girl was her best friend before, so they didn't feel that comfortable having her in their changing room. But the boys didn't really want her in their changing room either, after all she was still a girl.
She ended up dressing by herself before sport.
This is just a short story of what happened, it was obviously more complicated with more "stages" in between. But i am curious about your opinion to this subject. Because personally i think a lot of people that are uncomfortable with transgender people are most uncomfortable with the transition. When does a person stop being female and start being male? When the person identifies as the other gender, but clearly still has the original body?
In all honesty, to a trans person we were never our birth sex to begin with, so it's kinda a wrong body situation. Yeah that can make daily life really complicated, but on the other hand it's just as complicated to use the wrong bathroom, or locker room, from a personal perspective. In other words, being trans is just plain complicated. Now here's a fun one from my side. I was made to use the girl's bathroom and locker room starting in middle school. Part of that is that I started presenting as a girl full time around them. Still the best excuse was, that because I dressed as a girl, boys would get weird about my undies. From my experience the girls on the other hand were kinda put off and confused about it at first, but it kinda worked to my advantage, as I got accepted, and the girls thought I was cute. Being trans kinda made me non-threatening in that case, and they had a boy who liked girl things right in the palm of their hands. That said, men kinda respond different(less comfortably too) on the subject than women do.

Phew! Long post was long! I'll try to address more questions as I go. But dang do I got some catching up to do. Thank you all for your patience, and I apologize for being absent as the thread got this long.
 

NoeL

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carlsberg export said:
in most instances where I heard the term, a lot of emphasis was put on the 'cis' part making it feel quite derogatory.
Redryhno said:
Most of the time I think most of the problem comes from most uses(that's alot[sic] of mosts) being surrounded by venom and a bunch of negativity. Whether or not it is being used as derogatory(personally, most uses are to me because of this), there's just too many instances of it being used as the former, and very little of the latter.
I think the issue is just ignorance and exposure. Not to be presumptuous, but if your primary source on what the trans folk are up to is people commentating on what the crazies do then of course you're going to come away with an incredibly biased understanding. An analogy would be a YEC whose only exposure to evolution has been what his church leaders have told him, or an atheist whose only expose to Christianity has been watching Thunderf00t (hey, two religious analogies... it was all I got).

In my personal experience I very rarely hear "cisgender" used derogatorily - it's just an efficient way to refer to non-trans folk, which you would need to do quite a lot when discussing trans stuff because "man" and "woman" become too ambiguous at that point (for example: "I think the men's room should be reserved for men!", "Well FtM transgenders are men.", "No, I meant only men that were born with male genitals and identify as male.", "Oh, well if you'd said 'the men's room should be reserved for cis-men!' we could've avoided the confusion."). To use another analogy, "fruit" is a perfectly functional word but if someone offers you a choice between an apple, banana or orange there's going to be a breakdown in communication if you simply reply with "I'll have the fruit, thanks!"

But as I said, this is just a difference in how we've experienced transgenderism, and just as importantly, how we haven't experienced it. What kinds of information we've been exposed to vs what information we're ignorant of. In my experience it sounds wrong to claim the term is "mostly" used with derision, but I've mostly been exposed to pro-trans information. If you've mostly seen anti-trans stuff then sure, I'd expect our experiences to be different.

KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:
No there actual cases of double Y chromosome people with no X chromosome. Humans can survive weird things. Some people actually survive with a single sex chromosome.
Source?
 

Redryhno

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NoeL said:
I think the issue is just ignorance and exposure. Not to be presumptuous, but if your primary source on what the trans folk are up to is people commentating on what the crazies do then of course you're going to come away with an incredibly biased understanding. An analogy would be a YEC whose only exposure to evolution has been what his church leaders have told him, or an atheist whose only expose to Christianity has been watching Thunderf00t (hey, two religious analogies... it was all I got).
The problem is that the majority of people "answering" questions are the crazies(and by answering, I mean people repeating what they say with a question mark and then repeating themselves again). The majority of the ones that make themselves known(nearly exclusively MtF in my experience, still trying to figure out why that seems to be the case, apologies to MtF that aren't intolerable douches, who knows, maybe it's just like my luck with gay guys being much the same, never met a lesbian I wanted to skin myself to get out of a social event with them) are the ones that go apeshit over simple things like Ranma characters and the Ventura crapshoot.

With religion and evolution, you can find other voices relatively easily, heck, even feminism with all its constant fracturing is easier to find voices for, but with trans, you get the crazies, and if you're lucky, a thread like this one every sixth blue moon on the third rotation of Beetlegues that I'm still hoping to get some answers from.

And it REALLY doesn't help that alot of them(again, apologies) don't have a sense of humor when it comes to them. You can say it's because they've been the butt of jokes for a huge amount of time, but there's not a single section of society that hasn't - and shouldn't - be off-limits to comedy.
 

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Redryhno said:
The problem is that the majority of people "answering" questions are the crazies(and by answering, I mean people repeating what they say with a question mark and then repeating themselves again). The majority of the ones that make themselves known(nearly exclusively MtF in my experience, still trying to figure out why that seems to be the case, apologies to MtF that aren't intolerable douches, who knows, maybe it's just like my luck with gay guys being much the same, never met a lesbian I wanted to skin myself to get out of a social event with them) are the ones that go apeshit over simple things like Ranma characters and the Ventura crapshoot.

With religion and evolution, you can find other voices relatively easily, heck, even feminism with all its constant fracturing is easier to find voices for, but with trans, you get the crazies, and if you're lucky, a thread like this one every sixth blue moon on the third rotation of Beetlegues that I'm still hoping to get some answers from.

And it REALLY doesn't help that alot of them(again, apologies) don't have a sense of humor when it comes to them. You can say it's because they've been the butt of jokes for a huge amount of time, but there's not a single section of society that hasn't - and shouldn't - be off-limits to comedy.
Right, but you'll forgive me for stating the obvious, that with this attitude you've already dismissed ever finding fair voices. Who here exactly would you call a 'crazy'? Also, I don't mind being the butt of jokes, but it gets to a point where if being trans is the only reason you're making fun of me then it's not 'enlightening', or 'commentary' ... it's just being an over all unlikeable fuck. Someone who I shouldn't feel the need to listen to, nor should be required of me to treat it with any more respect than the bullies I confronted in school.

Let's say if I had another joke, entitled "Die Cis Scum" ... oh, wait... perhaps a little too obvious?

I mean, you've probably met really reasonable trans people. People in bars, or clubs, without ever knowing. That's the thing. I wouldn't want to talk to you in real life about this. I don't mind ding it online. But if I knew you in reality, and I knew you just generalised all trans women as hysterical then why would I want to talk to you? If I said 'White cis males are fuckwits, I've never met one that I've liked or found reasonable' ... would you expect this argument to actually hold water? No. More to the point, would they ignore me? Yeah, and probably with good reason.

There seems to be more than a few trans women on this site who seem more than reasonable, and this is effectively how you treat them with anecdotal generalities? Which makes them less likely (and rightfully so) to treat your position as anything more than pathetic mewlings and garbage.
 

KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime

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NoeL said:
KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:
No there actual cases of double Y chromosome people with no X chromosome. Humans can survive weird things. Some people actually survive with a single sex chromosome.
Source?
To be honest the last time I looked about it was on wikipedia, and no I'm not going to look it up again, what do I look like? Someone who's not lazy?
 

Redryhno

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PaulH said:
Redryhno said:
The problem is that the majority of people "answering" questions are the crazies(and by answering, I mean people repeating what they say with a question mark and then repeating themselves again). The majority of the ones that make themselves known(nearly exclusively MtF in my experience, still trying to figure out why that seems to be the case, apologies to MtF that aren't intolerable douches, who knows, maybe it's just like my luck with gay guys being much the same, never met a lesbian I wanted to skin myself to get out of a social event with them) are the ones that go apeshit over simple things like Ranma characters and the Ventura crapshoot.

With religion and evolution, you can find other voices relatively easily, heck, even feminism with all its constant fracturing is easier to find voices for, but with trans, you get the crazies, and if you're lucky, a thread like this one every sixth blue moon on the third rotation of Beetlegues that I'm still hoping to get some answers from.

And it REALLY doesn't help that alot of them(again, apologies) don't have a sense of humor when it comes to them. You can say it's because they've been the butt of jokes for a huge amount of time, but there's not a single section of society that hasn't - and shouldn't - be off-limits to comedy.
Right, but you'll forgive me that with this attitude you've already dismissed ever finding fair voices. Who exactly, here, would you call a 'crazy'? Also, I don't mind being the butt of jokes, but it gets to a point where if that's the only reason you're making fun of me then it's not 'enlightening', or 'commentary' ... it's just being an over all unlikeable fuck. Someone who I shouldn't feel the need to listen, nor should be required of me to treat it with any more respect than the bullies I confronted in school.

Let's say if I had another joke, entitled "Die Cis Scum" ... oh, wait... perhaps a little too obvious?

I mean, you've probably met really reasonable trans people. People in bars, or clubs, without ever knowing. That's the thing. I wouldn't want to talk to you in real life about this. I don't mind ding it online. But if I knew you in reality, and you knew you just generalised all trans women as hysterical then why would I want to talk to you? If I said 'White cis males are fuckwits, I've never met one that I've liked or found reasonable ...' would you expect this argument to actually hold water?

There seems to be more than a few trans women on this site who seem more than reasonable, and this is effectively how you treat them with anecdotal generalities? Which makes them less likely (and rightfully so) to treat your position as nothing more than pathetic mewlings and garbage.
Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

This is sorta the attitude and mentality I'm talking about. I can't answer your first question with any amount of honesty, you know that, and I'm not going to. But I never said MtF trans were hysterical, that's all you buddy, I said there seemed to be an overabundance of MtF trans that were unlikable and if you bothered to read my posts, you'd see that I very much acknowledge that it could very easily be bad luck on my part much like my experience with the majority of gay men.

I never called the jokes either of those things either buddy, so maybe, just maybe, could you stop putting words in my paragraphs, meanings in my ideas, and thoughts in my head that weren't there? Also, I'm trying to figure out how "Die Cis-Scum Die" is a joke. Is there some context to it that I'm not aware of similar to "PC MASTER RACE, CONSOLE PEASANT SERFS"? Or is this just an overblown example of someone taking stuff too seriously and getting it carved into their chest or something while...I dunno, walking around in a Gay Pride parade?

And I have no doubt I've met reasonable transfolk unknowingly, it doesn't change the fact that the people answering questions have a microphone and a strict set of rules when it comes to them you cannot deviate from. That is my problem. It's not the people living their lives, it's the ones that are vocal and don't like being in the presence of ignorance while claiming to attempt to de-ignorize.

This post? It reads like a rough satirical overview of an example of why alot of people have no interest in having anything to do with trans issues. You can't hold an opinion that isn't deemed kosher, whether it be opinion, experience, or even ignorance. It's just too much trouble with minimal thanks, if you even get that.

As for why they shouldn't consider me "mewling and some kind of garbage"? Maybe because I'm hoping to be proven wrong by being in this thread and trying to get answers I've been trying to get for literal YEARS to not be an ignorant douche?

Gonna continue hoping by the way, over in my cis-scum corner. Gonna go to work now.
 

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KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:
NoeL said:
KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:
No there actual cases of double Y chromosome people with no X chromosome. Humans can survive weird things. Some people actually survive with a single sex chromosome.
Source?
To be honest the last time I looked about it was on wikipedia, and no I'm not going to look it up again, what do I look like? Someone who's not lazy?
Trust me, I'm a biology graduate, you can't survive without an X chromosome as there are over a thousand genes which are only on the X, many of which are vital for development. A YY embryo would miscarry pronto, as do most chromosomal abnormalities (trisomy 21 is an exception in how survivable it is).