Hitman Studio Apologizes For Nun Massacre

[WaysideMaze]

Pussies.

If I was their PR department I'd have sent out a very clear 'Piss off buttercups' in response to the, frankly alarming reaction this trailer got.

People are constantly complaining that the industry itself is what needs to grow up.... Bullshit. It's the whiny, precious little consumers who somehow think that violence against digital women is soooo much worse than violence against digital men.

No one would have given two short fucks if 47 had have done the EXACT same thing to a load of guys in priest gowns that fell off to reveal leather hotpants or someshit. Infact people would probably have called it progressive.

Frikin selective hippies.

I would have cared. But that's just because my issue with the trailer was that it didn't feel like a hitman trailer. felt more like an advert for a statham movie

 

[Eamar]

That's another thing, everyone seems to be a fucking prude lately. Especially on this site. I don't know if it's because they think complaining about non issues like this make them seem more open minded, forward thinking [insert more insufferable modern-man buzzwords here], because that seems to be the in thing at the minute.

I'll agree I'm not 100% sure why this particular example is what's sparked so much debate (as I've said before, my own reaction was less "what the hell is this, ban this filth" and more "this again? *sigh*), but personally I'm glad people do think about these things. *shrug*

But denying that sexuality, especially explicit eye candy, is a stimuli that people respond too... well it's just downright stupid.

Yes, sexuality is an important stimulus, but don't you think it can be a bit lazy for a game developer (or film director, or music video or whatever else) simply to pander to that? Again, I think that's pretty adolescent behaviour, hence some parts of the medium needing to "grow up."

There's a time and place for sex, cheese and ultra violence. A story about a monkey suit clad baldylox, ultra assassin falls in those margins.

I know little about the Hitman series and so am not in a position to judge, but I was under the impression that, while sex has always been a part of it, it wasn't the main selling point in the past. This trailer seems to undermine that.

Having said that, again I agree that there's a time and a place for this and am not advocating the complete removal of this kind of stuff. While I'd like to see the industry as a whole mature a bit, I have nothing against the Saints Rows and (original) Duke Nukems of this world.

People need to understand that there's a difference between sexist agendas and 'look, sexy outfits, fwwwaaahhhh!'.

Once again, I wouldn't call this maliciously sexist, just immature.

Women appear more sexualised than men in all media... Not just games. And there's a reason for that. They way that sexualisation clicks best for your average hetero guy is more overt than your average hetero woman.

I'm well aware that women are overly sexualised in all media, and I don't think that's necessarily a good thing. I certainly don't agree with the "that's just the way it is, deal with it" line of thinking. For what it's worth, I'm bisexual so yes, I can completely understand why these things are sexy. I also, like a lot of straight guys, don't need or want everything to be aimed at my libido all the time.

Every time you see a musclebound dude in an underwear advert, it's sexualising the man. But we don't hear about people complaining that the male figure is being abused, or that we're setting an unrealistic ideal for teenage boys to achieve.

Again, I am well aware of this. And I don't think the sexualisation of men is necessarily a good thing either. Incidentally, I don't necessarily have a problem with the use of traditionally attractive people in advertising, so long as they're healthy. But that's straying off-topic.

We're obsessed with physical ideas. But for some reason it's only a negative thing for women?

I think that's a bit unfair. There is (generally speaking) far more variation in the looks of men in all sorts of media than in women.

You're right, though, we probably shouldn't get too off topic...

 

[mindlesspuppet]

This is the biggest issue I've had with the whole argument over the video. Everyone seems to be questioning "why were they dressed like that to assassinate someone?" yet no one questions "why is he wearing a formal suit to assassinate someone?". The answer to both questions is the same, but only one is being asked.

A man in a suit doesn't attract attention. just another face in the crowd. 7 attractive women in s&m gear is the opposite.

A bald man with a tattoo of a barcode on the back of his head, walking around in a monkey suit with leather gloves, certainly would attract attention in your average crowd.

The point he was making is that the reason they were dressed like something out of Kill Bill is the same reason 47 looks like he does.

Because it's cool and 'why the fuck not, it's a game'.

Wow, thank you. I was actually afraid I was going to have to explain myself.

 

[SonicWaffle]

People will take any excuse to have a *****-fit.

I disagree, and will now be throwing a ***** fit about your insensitivity to my needs.

OT: People complain when a studio or company takes heat and doesn't back down. People complain when a studio or company takes heat and does back down. There's really no way to win. Some of the people some of the time, etc etc.

 

[josemlopes]

I don't see the issue with the nun outfits. That's a pretty good cover up.

But why they were dressed as strippers or whatever in order to assassinate someone is pretty dumb.

They should have pulled a Neo where they rip off the nun outfits and are just loaded up with weapons - and appropriate clothes for a gun fight.

But whatever.

This is the biggest issue I've had with the whole argument over the video. Everyone seems to be questioning "why were they dressed like that to assassinate someone?" yet no one questions "why is he wearing a formal suit to assassinate someone?". The answer to both questions is the same, but only one is being asked.

Side note: The sexy nun as killers/killers disguised as nuns or priests thing has been done so many damn times in cinema that it really shouldn't have even garnered any attention. This just goes to show how immature the gaming media is.

I would think the "sexy" nun outfit isn't so much a disguise as a distraction. Taking out a male target, who being male may be susceptible to a pair of tits or bare leg being just enough of a distraction to allow said female assassins to gain an edge over an otherwise deadly foe... That it didn't work and he didn't even bat an eye except to get the fuck out the way of the RPG is a testament to just how inhuman 47 still is. I feel the character didn't see a bunch of strippered up nuns with guns, but just another in a long series of PEOPLE TRYING TO KILL HIM. And he's already shown in the past to not really care one way or another about sexuality, he just does his job.

I swear these days people will go apeshit over anything just to have an issue to ***** about.

I am going to have to agree with you. I personally had no issue with the trailer (I just did not like it) but I really did not see anything sexist or all that shocking for that matter. Coupled with the idea that their garbs were designed to distract a male target made good sense (in a very silly sort of way), it is just pure fantasy.

The main thing I think people are reacting about though is the current portrayl of women in videogames and the perceived difficulty women have being gamers and such because what you saw tends to stray towards the norm instead of the exception and thus people let out a cry of frustration rather than true rage. Others just saw it as an opportunity to get mad. (Jeeze, I hope that makes sense)

And its not like religion themes have never been a part of Hitman

Spoiler

 

[Furioso]

Anyone else confused as to why they were dressed as nuns in the first place? If they were in a church sure, but outside a motel 6? Really? And why were they wearing any form of disguise if they were just going to remove it before seeing anyone? Forget the sexism, the thing just makes no goddamn sense

 

[Freyar]

I just watched it for the first time and I don't see why people are upset at all about it. As soon as they drop their outer attire it was just ladies dressed as strippers trying to kill a professional. Bloody amateurs is what they were. If anyone should be outraged, it's 47.

 

[WaysideMaze]

Pussies.

If I was their PR department I'd have sent out a very clear 'Piss off buttercups' in response to the, frankly alarming reaction this trailer got.

People are constantly complaining that the industry itself is what needs to grow up.... Bullshit. It's the whiny, precious little consumers who somehow think that violence against digital women is soooo much worse than violence against digital men.

No one would have given two short fucks if 47 had have done the EXACT same thing to a load of guys in priest gowns that fell off to reveal leather hotpants or someshit. Infact people would probably have called it progressive.

Frikin selective hippies.

I would have cared. But that's just because my issue with the trailer was that it didn't feel like a hitman trailer. felt more like an advert for a statham movie

Well he did take them out from behind...... Ai thank yew!

And when they realised he was there, they didn't just get walked over. You could tell that attacking head on isn't exactly his forte.

I know people have complained that it was much too action packed for a Hitman trailer. Which is frankly, the only valid criticism I've seen about the trailer. But if you've watched the gameplay released a few months back. The game has changed a lot from it's predecessors.

It looks much more like Arkham city than the old games, and I'm strangely okay with that. I know it bothered the diehard fans. But honestly, as long as there are lots of good stealth sequences, I can live with it not being in keeping with the last games.

I have looked at recent gameplay videos, and any worries I had from this trailer about it being all action have been thouroughly laid to rest.

I did like replaying levels going in all guns blazing, just to mix things up, but as long as I can still take on objectives and levels from multiple angles I'll be happy.

 

[Acton Hank]

I kind of liked the trailer, there's something about religious figures getting brutally murdered that brings a smile to my face.

 

[Iwana Humpalot]

Gotta love it when people take a trailer that is not ment to be taken seriosly and go apeshit over it. I thought it was awesome and thats the only thing it was intended to make me think.

 

[Eamar]

Oh man, this is going to be a nightmare in terms of quote-editing. Apologies in advance for any quote fails.

The thing is it's not 'this again' because we generally don't see it anymore. Lately it's all been slightly homo-erotic brofists and grizzled man time.

It's rare to find this kind of over the top sexy for the sake of sexy....... outside of Japan anyway. But that's a whole different argument.

Hmmmm. Your comment about the brofists is leading me to think we might all be better at noticing things that apply to our own genders more. I certainly still see a lot of overly sexualised women in games, whereas I hadn't necessarily picked up on the stuff you have so much.

I hate that word... pander. It's almost never used correctly.

Making something that looks cool or is hot isn't pandering. It's appealing to a market. And whilst it's true that too much sex appeal, especially the in your face stuff like this, is a bad thing. None at all is a much worse thing.

Handling sexuality in a mature fashion is certainly not abstaining from it. Thinking like that is very unhealthy.

I don't know about the use of the word "pander." I think in many cases the games industry does pander to the desires of the stereotypical teenage boy. That's not a bad thing in and of itself, but when it feels like the whole industry is doing just that (hyperbole, obviously) it can feel uncomfortable.

I completely agree about your comments on sexuality though. I'd just argue that this isn't an instance of handling it in a mature fashion.

I'd hardly say it was the main selling point here. It's just eyecandy for the trailer.

It is the main selling point of the trailer though, and would give that impression to someone who's not familiar with the series.

And I'm glad you're not one of the people who thinks that any sexuality is inherently a bad thing. Because like I said, that's a very unhealthy way to look at it.

Agreed, again.

Would you call Kill Bill immature?

Perhaps. Tarantino generally does a decent job of characterising his sexy women though.

It's just pulp trash, there's a time and place for it but it's still enjoyable.

Fair point.

But it isn't, we've moved away from this type of marketing being the standard. Now it's just nice to have the odd piece of it lying around here and there.

Again, I'd really disagree here. I'd say practically dressed, non overly sexualised (doesn't have to mean unsexy) women are still rare in games.

I disagree, I think sexualisation is a fantastic thing. Our western culture is far, far, far too prudish. Despite how good of a marketing tool sex is. We're still embarrassed about it in public and that's downright shameful.

While I agree that people shouldn't be embarrassed to discuss sex, I wouldn't exactly call our culture "prudish" given what most of our media looks like.

Again I'd disagree. As a male you're constantly told that being well muscled is the ideal. And although I am completely for sexualisation. I think it needs to be far more varied for both sexes.

Oh, I totally agree that we need more variety for everyone. I just think you're more likely to see (for example) an overweight male character than an overweight female character. And heaven forbid you might want to see a muscular woman... While the musclebound hulk of a man is indeed hideously overused, there are examples of variation. The supermodel look is more or less universal for female characters in games as 99 times out of 100 they're designed with sex appeal in mind.

 

[Sean951]

I actually have two problems with this. First of all I think it is degrading to women and if it was supposed to be a parody, it did not come through because it seemed like it was all serious business. Secondly, I find it sacrilegious because having the sisters show up as nuns and take off their clothes to reveal stripper outfits upsets me as a christian. If they revealed that they were carrying appropriate clothing and weaponry for a fight, I wouldn't have as much problem. The sexy nun outfit, I believe, is an insult to my religion because nuns are some of the best human beings on this Earth and to show them as being sex fiends underneath it all shows a great disrespect for what they do. That is why I am angry people.

So it insulted your religion. So what?

The real argument against this is how it portrayed the women in question. They were wearing impractical clothing (fetish outfits) and it was clearly trying to sexualize them. I'm fine with the nun killing. I actually think it's a cool idea, but let them have real clothes.

I don't see the issue with the nun outfits. That's a pretty good cover up.

But why they were dressed as strippers or whatever in order to assassinate someone is pretty dumb.

They should have pulled a Neo where they rip off the nun outfits and are just loaded up with weapons - and appropriate clothes for a gun fight.

But whatever.

This is the biggest issue I've had with the whole argument over the video. Everyone seems to be questioning "why were they dressed like that to assassinate someone?" yet no one questions "why is he wearing a formal suit to assassinate someone?". The answer to both questions is the same, but only one is being asked.

Side note: The sexy nun as killers/killers disguised as nuns or priests thing has been done so many damn times in cinema that it really shouldn't have even garnered any attention. This just goes to show how immature the gaming media is.

You have can at least blend in with a suit. It's also the go to outfit for spies and assassins according to the movies, so it fits. But come on, bondage gear?

 

[orangeban]

Hmm, well, it's a decent apology, they didn't go for the "we apologise if you were offended", which was nice, but they did dodge the issues surrounding the whole idea.

My issues with the Hitman trailer are two-fold, but firstly I will point out that I have no problems with the nun thing from a religious perspective, I'm not religious. Though I see why a religious person may have had an issue with it.

Issue 1: Really didn't seem very Hitman-ish. I've played Hitman, it's not about taking on a group of scantily-clad gun toting assassins, it's about manipulating your environment with the intention of assassinating a target as quickly and cleanly as possible. Basically, if you get into a massive gunfight, you've done something wrong (or you're just fucking around).

And the whole stripper nun thing seemed out of place. Sexuality has always been quite big in the games, it's mentioned and dealt with a lot (many of your targets have committed some kind of sex crime or are in a sex party or something like that), but never has it been quite so blatant and explicit. There was no reason for those women to be stripper nuns, it's just eye candy for the viewer.

I mean, the apology talked about giving the new game a grindhouse feel, which could be cool, but that isn't very Hitman, that's not really what the games are about. They're quite dark, darkly comedic in places, but still quite dark and serious.

Issue 2: The blatant sexualisation. I've not got an issue that it's women who're being killed, I've got an issue that these supposedly practical assassins from a supposedly pragmatic and sensible organisation are dressed in the least appropriate outfit for assassination. Why? Because it's sexy, that's what viewers like. God forbid these women be treated like human beings doing a job like everyone else in the bloody universe including 47, nah, they've got to be super sexy. Hitman has always had a problem with this I feel, Blood Money had a lot of female characters in sexy outfits for no other reason than hey, they're women, let's make them sexy, that's what we do with women right?

As for the double standard issue, I don't think it exists. If it were men in suits being beaten up, that wouldn't be a problem. If it were men being beaten up who approached in Pope robes and then dropped them to reveal gimp suits or whatever, well, A) that wouldn't happen, which is part of the reason why the trailer was offensive, this kind of thing doesn't happen to men, and B) people would call that out as fucking ridiculous.

Edit: And yeah, I said this on the last thread about this, don't want to be seen to be repeating myself, I just developed my thoughts a little bit since then. I like to clarify my views, for myself as much as anyone else.

 

[Eamar]

If it were men being beaten up who approached in Pope robes and then dropped them to reveal gimp suits or whatever, well, A) that wouldn't happen, which is part of the reason why the trailer was offensive, this kind of thing doesn't happen to men, and B) people would call that out as fucking ridiculous.

An excellent point. It really is interesting how the male equivalent is just patently ridiculous even for video games, whereas the current version is considered normal.

The only way I can imagine this happening would be if it was Saints Row or something. But then it would be played for laughs, not sex appeal.

 

[Kargathia]

Although I think it was a bit silly(the undergarments, not the nun outfits), and not really representive of the hitman series, I think this has been way overblown. Way worse things then this are done on a daily basis in the gaming industry and it doesnt recive an ounce of the attention this has gotten. A true example of making a chicken farm out of a feather, and just badly placed priorities.

It was further excarbated by people already anxious for the Hitman franchise to not become the latest on-rails spectacle shooter. If they'd have shown him skilfully sneaking around, strangling nun-clad assassins, nobody would've lifted an eyebrow.