Hawki said:
Don't agree. The DCEU isn't some paragon of quality, but the only film I can call a "dumpster fire" is BvS.
So MoS, BvS, Suicide Squad, Wonder Woman and Justice League represent a coherently realised, well thought out cinematic universe? And not some kind of braindead, reactionary, defined-by-boardrooms creative failure?
I've not seen Suicide Squad, but I've had it spoilered to bits and I'm fairly sure I'll despise it. At best I think I might enjoy some moments in JL, but overall continue to facepalm as with the rest of the series.
JL's opening box office was a disaster when taking into account its grossly bloated budget, and I understand their openings have kept dropping after, I think, BvS? For JL - 'Warner's Avengers' - to be one of the worst performing in the series is a humiliation. So yeah, dumpster fire seems an apt description.
So even if I agreed with the dumpster fire sentiment, what's the point of rebooting it?
As I said; to do it - and especially the trinity - justice
league. Perhaps they don't need nine years off, given when it's done well a quickly turned around recast-reboot of a franchise can work, as Homecoming proved (I've not seen it yet, but by all accounts it was a commercial and critical success).
1) I'm not complaining, but there was no obligation to reboot the Batman films after Batman and Robin. Ever heard of Batman Triumphant, how it would have returned to the tone of the Burton films? Creatively speaking, there was no reason to reboot the films.
Er, isn't Chris Nolan directing his own take a pretty spectacularly huge reason to reboot? As oppose to another from Schumacher?
I personally dislike all the other Batman films, so any return to Burton's lopsided, puddle shallow vision would've been fairly terrible in my eyes. Batman Begins and TDK were veritable genre revelations.
Everyone and their mother knows the origin stories of Batman and Superman (one piece of credit I can give the DCEU is that it thankfully skips a Batman origin story, and wisely goes with a veteran Batman), and Wonder Woman is the best film in the bunch.
Re the underlined; 'wisdom' is meaningless if the idea is executed poorly.
This Batman's better at CrossFit than detecting...
What's the point of doing another Wonder Woman origin movie when the one we have is pretty decent?
As you said, you don't necessarily need to do conventional origins at all. MCU Spidey's debut was way after all the power/responsibility chitchats, and Homecoming did incredibly well.
Gadot's--- kinda good in the role... but she's still a fairly two dimensional actor with an incredibly limited range, and for me Wonder Woman had a lot of posturing in it, but little of it rang true (some of the editing and timing of the trench sequence is awful, but generally that's one of Gal as Diana's best moments). I still feel someone like Jaime Alexander would've done better, and feck knows the MCU were completely wasting her.
Either way, one option's to retain Cavill and Gadot (I'm not sold on her entirely, but clearly she's been immensely popular), and
maaaaaaaybe Affleck, provided he bothers to give a shit this time (I've only heard he seems rather disconnected and bored in JL), and 'fix' the DCEU in one big Flashpoint-esque event.
I mean, that worked great for Fox's X-Men...
...okay it really didn't [other than somehow allowing Logan to get made], but it
could work. I think the MCU's one of the most impressive feats in mass-market cinema history, but even it needs some fresh ideas and risks, which it'll hopefully take after Infinity War. I think audiences are now comicbook/superhero savvy enough to accept some audacious reworkings, and that's a far better bet than to just limp on as the DCEU's currently doing. It is Gotham City as described by Neeson-al'Ghul in Batman Begins.
Cut out the dead wood, ditch actors who can't seem to be arsed, and set up a major arc worth a damn (it's rather sheepishly ironic the DCEU is ostensibly mirroring the MCU's 'giant genocidal lunatic from space' arc given the creative history re Thanos and Darkseid). Retcon the fuck out of it, and do it with some real flair.
That would be something the MCU's not done yet, so Warner have lots of reasons to double down on that kind of in-'verse retconning.
Warner confirmed they have an adaptation bearing the Flashpoint title in the works, but I'd put money on it not being what I feel it needs to be.
Except Justice League does have its own hero shot, and it does work in the scope of the movie. I mean, I don't think either JL or Avengers are "good" movies per se, but while Avengers is the superior film, JL still works, despite its many flaws.
Oh c'mon... An iconic hero shot cannot exist in a mediocre film where the general defence of it is 'Eh, it's not terrible/It's good enough'. A Justice League film should be entire dimensions ahead of 'good enough'.
The hero shot in The Avengers was a kind of pop-cultural milestone and watershed moment. Any hero shot in a production disaster like JL (with so divisive a take on key characters) isn't 'earnt' as the 360 in the streets of NYC of the Avengers was. In a way that shot was the culmination of the MCU up to that point - and it worked so well because it more or less felt like a triumphant moment of 'Well I never - they actually pulled it off'.
Imagine
that for DC's trinity, after years of careful, well thought out build-up and rock solid films. That's what the fans of these characters deserved, and they did not get it.
