I don't understand male virgin shaming.

[manic_depressive13]

Perhaps if you stopped treating women as objects that dispense sex if you put enough money in, and tried to form meaningful relationships instead, you wouldn't run into this problem.

That's funny, I'm currently in a meaningful relationship with a girl and have been for the last 5 years. What I'm getting at is that women can and do use sex as a means to an end to get the things they want (kinda why prostitutes exist). Some just use the idea of sex while some are more literal I guess.

It's not really funny. Sexist people can have meaningful, long term relationships- otherwise humanity would have died out long ago. "I'm not sexist because I have a girlfriend" is the equivalent of "I'm not racist because I have a black friend".

Frankly, if you're going to describe women's promises of sex as being "dangled in front of you" one could be forgiven for thinking that you view them like pieces of meat. After all, you're not lamenting the fact that there are women who lie about loving you, only to leave when you stop being convenient. You are upset that they don't deliver the sex even after you "pay" for them.

 

[hooblabla6262]

Edit: And in case my ice cream comparison wasn't good enough. It would be like a friend telling me he was too afraid to go bungie jumping. Yeah it's scary, but totally awesome and worth it.

Bungie jumping might be awesome and worth it if say, you don't have a crippling fear of heights.
Same to your previous statement that not all experiences are equal and your example was Sky diving VS taking a shit. Because it is impossible for someone who has a crippling fear of heights to rather take a shit than jump out of a plane.
Stop acting like your experiences and preferences rule the world, not everything you think is a great experience is something everyone should do. You may think say, going to a spider museum is an experience that cannot be missed, but anyone with arachnophobia wouldn't feel that they are "missing out" on anything.

Then I would say work towards overcoming your fears?
Unless living in fear is a great experience that I'm missing out on.
I'm afraid of the ocean, but I still go scuba diving every chance I get.
And in context with the main topic, if you are afraid of having sex, you shouldn't be.

I understand that people can have bad experiences, and it can shape their outlook on that particular matter, be it sex or sky diving or whatever.
I think you would be foolish to say it is better to live with that fear than to slowly work at overcoming it.

And just because someone feels like they aren't missing out on anything, doesn't make it true. What makes it true is when they actually do what it is that is being discussed.
They may not like the spider museum, but they are still missing out on it by not going. The world doesn't stop existing just because you aren't interested, or are afraid of it.

For example, I am currently missing out on being shot. Though it is not an experience I would enjoy, I am still missing out by not experiencing it. (I couldn't think of a better negative example than being shot)

 

[DrDuckman]

Ok I have to chip in here cause this is really getting annoying. How is having an acitve sex life equeate to fuckign around randomly with strangers? Really? So either I have no sex until I find the perfect someone and join the purity master race, or I am a raging manwhore out for anything with an available orifice?

Life is not just absolutes, most of us started having sex with people we liked, maybe even loved. It did not work out, cause we were young and stupid, and we keep trying, cause why the hell not? Relationships are hard, and for most of us, and I'd wadger most of the people who "save themselves", the first ones dont work out. Not only because the two people involved were not ready, but because people change, and sometimes they change to different directions, especially when you are young. There's nothing you can do about that.

Most people DON'T actually go get random one night stands every night. Dont let terrible TV series convince you that this is standard male modus operati. If sex statistics are to be believed, most men haven't even had a one night stand, and actually only had 4-6 partners in their lives.

Hell, come to think of it, I gotta ask, what's wrong with people who DO enjoy casual sex? For a whole group that emphasizes how sex is not that important, I call hypocrisy when you call such men disgusting. Much like I dont really find women who enjoy casual sex anything to be scorned or mocked.

So yes, you can have sex without being a manwhore, and you can choose to be a manwhore without being some sort of purity defiling skeeve. Dont use this argument as your defense from abstaining please.

As for the other bit, yes, male virgins are mocked because they are perceived to be less attractive, and thus successful, than males who can attract partners. Unfortunately for a rather sizable number of people who are actually asexual, or just abstain for other reasons, this is often, though not always true. It's not a mystery though, neither is it the least legitimate reason to get mocked at. No that's the women slut shaming, which is even more unreasonable, as it's based on the terrifying assumption that women dont actually want sex, they just kinda give in to it because they are so dominated by the hot hot mancake. Thus sluts are weak willed and are kinda peer pressured into it, or manipulative succubi who want your money, not just people who enjoy sex. Which is patently untrue. I am sure that happens some times, but actually, so does it with men.

Now ideally, people would just butt out and not mock anyone for such personal choices, but in a more realistic setting, I would suggest that the best reactions for the victims of this is to emphasize that its your CHOICE, not to rant on about how disgusting us sex starved pigs who dared to have more than one partner in our lives are. You are simply enforcing the stereotype of the sex-starved social outcast.

Now finally, to the poster with the no sex leading to breakups complaint, I must also add from personal experience my two bits to the you need to be clear about it up front camp. Most people wont tell you it's ok if you spring it 3 months in because they are dicks, they'll tell you it's ok because they are attached to you at this point, and they suppress their better judgement. They may feel that they'll try to suppress their urges, because they like you that much, or maybe they just hope you'll change. It's not the most mature outlook, but it's not surprising either. It really does not work out that way in the end though for the vast majority of people, as sex is an integral part of pair bonding. I am sorry to say this, as I understand you want to get close to someone, but unless the other person is also asexual, or has made a very clear and final commitment to abstain from sex, it's unfair to lead the relationship to a romantic direction. You need to be brutally honest at the first sign it's going that way. Which sucks, but it is what it is. Even then, you'll get people who are infatuated with you say they are ok with it, simply because they may not quite believe you, so you need to exercise your judgement there, and let there be no misunderstandings.

 

[Zeke_warhammer]

It's not really funny. Sexist people can have meaningful, long term relationships- otherwise humanity would have died out long ago. "I'm not sexist because I have a girlfriend" is the equivalent of "I'm not racist because I have a black friend".

Frankly, if you're going to use describe women's promises of sex as being "dangled in front of you" one could be forgiven for thinking that you view them like pieces of meat. After all, you're not lamenting the fact that there are women who lie about loving you, only to leave when you stop being convenient. You are upset that they don't deliver the sex even after you "pay" for them.

Gonna stop trying to make this a pissing contest any time soon? What I'm getting at is that I do not like manipulative women, just like women don't like manipulative men. You sir, are now putting words in my mouth and I would appreciate it if you would kindly stop

 

[ultrabiome]

i was a male virgin until 25 and i wanted to get laid since i was 13. and the lack of attention i got from my female peers through high school and college was the most frustrating thing in my existence. i realize it's mainly my fault due to lack of social skills, which took me undergrad and into grad school to finally be comfortable.

i joined a frat in undergrad for the social skills (this was a tech school), and although i learned what i needed from my buddies there in terms of what to do (and not to), i had nothing but weird experiences: got invited to two different orgies (both under the influence of drugs), had multiple girls fuck with my mind, dated a very pious girl who i gave her first orgasm but didn't want anything but hjs, all while my buddies got laid around me. maybe i wanted an experience i was comfortable with the expectations (i just wanted to do the deed with a girl who wanted me to - nothing fancy) and believe me it clouded my head to no end.

when i met the girl i would eventually end my virginity with, it was so natural when we met, talked, and went into her bedroom and had some fun. i admitted the next day i was a virgin and that night we did the deed. we broke up a few weeks later, but the experience was both fun and what i needed and a cloud on my mind was lifted. (btw, my frat buddies were nothing but congratulatory, mainly because my dark mood was lifted)

point is, if you're with the right person (of which there may be many), you might be comfortable enough for that spark to happen and you can take it where you want to in a situation you feel comfortable. sex with the right person can be an amazing experience and it can take many forms. i just wish it had happened sooner but i also don't have any consequences.

PS: it helped i knew myself and did enough research to at least have an idea what to do with a girl.

PSS: when you're young, i think its not necessarily a bad idea to hold off, but as you get older, i'd say let loose a little and try it, once we all become adults people are more realistic and frankly, there is only so much time to wait.

 

[manic_depressive13]

Gonna stop trying to make this a pissing contest any time soon? What I'm getting at is that I do not like manipulative women, just like women don't like manipulative men. You sir, are now putting words in my mouth and I would appreciate it if you would kindly stop

I don't think I put words in your mouth. I merely responded to what you typed. If what you said wasn't what you meant then you may want to consider the implications of what you are writing in future.

Welcome to the Escapist.

 

[MetalMagpie]

From my personal experience (and that of people I know) sex can also push you further away from someone. People can sometimes experience resentment (or even betrayal) once the buzz goes away, particularly if they weren't sure about it to begin with or feel they were pressured into it.

I guess it's a lot like the idea that having kids with someone makes you closer. In reality, it'll either bring you closer together or push you further apart. At least with sex no one else suffers if it turns out to be the latter!

The chemical bond that forms through sex is A) temporary (needs refreshing...think of it as a "we fucked!" buff) and B) not really potent enough to fully overwhelm more conventional bonds, such as friendship or even basic compatibility. Which is how we end up in weird situations like relationships we hate but find it hard to leave because "the sex is good". I'm not suggesting that having your dick in someone makes for a storybook ending, obviously. But sex is pretty important for relationship health. And health health. What's the stat on sexually active adults vs not sexually active adults, in terms of lifespan? 7 years? 10 years? Basically being sex starved is worse than being a heavy smoker in terms of your health. All those hormones are pretty awesome for you, as it turns out.

Anyway, oxytocin isn't an "idea", it's an actual thing that actually gets released.

Oxytocin evokes feelings of contentment, reductions in anxiety, and feelings of calmness and security around the mate. Many studies have already shown a correlation of oxytocin with human bonding, increases in trust, and decreases in fear. One study confirmed a positive correlation between oxytocin plasma levels and an anxiety scale measuring the adult romantic attachment.This suggests oxytocin may be important for the inhibition of the brain regions associated with behavioral control, fear, and anxiety, thus allowing orgasm to occur. Oxytocin also functions to protect against stress. Meta-analyses conducted in 2003 demonstrated that oxytocin can alleviate mood and reduce stress with alarming efficiency.

It's sort of the "love drug", believed to be responsible for what we ephemerally categorize as the romantic emotions. Next time someone asks you "what is love", instead of "baby don't hurt me" you can reply with "Oxytocin!".

Sorry, I do know that. I was just meaning that the idea that oxytocin necessarily creates stronger bonds between people is perhaps a little simplistic. Oxytocin is also released by breast feeding, but isn't enough on its own to prevent child-rejection.

The interaction between different chemicals, hormones and emotions can get very complicated. If you want proof, ask anyone with severe postnatal depression/psychosis. The fact that systems designed to ensure a mother bonds with her child can (in extreme cases) lead to infanticide is a scary example of how non-simple it all is.

I also assume (I haven't done the reading on this particular matter) that either oxytocin is released in more situations than the holy trinity of sex/childbirth/breastfeeding, or it isn't required for all loving bonds. Fathers love their children without giving birth to them or breast-feeding them (or having sex with them!).

Basically, biology is fun but complicated. There isn't really a "love chemical" any more than there's a "speech region" in the brain. There are just things that contribute to other things in often strange round-about ways that have evolved haphazardly over billions of years.

 

[charge52]

Then I would say work towards overcoming your fears?
Unless living in fear is a great experience that I'm missing out on.
I'm afraid of the ocean, but I still go scuba diving every chance I get.
And in context with the main topic, if you are afraid of having sex, you shouldn't be.

I understand that people can have bad experiences, and it can shape their outlook on that particular matter, be it sex or sky diving or whatever.
I think you would be foolish to say it is better to live with that fear than to slowly work at overcoming it.

And just because someone feels like they aren't missing out on anything, doesn't make it true. What makes it true is when they actually do what it is that is being discussed.
They may not like the spider museum, but they are still missing out on it by not going. The world doesn't stop existing just because you aren't interested, or are afraid of it.

For example, I am currently missing out on being shot. Though it is not an experience I would enjoy, I am still missing out by not experiencing it. (I couldn't think of a better negative example than being shot)

A fear of heights or other phobias are not that easy to overcome, and for many they are impossible to overcome. In fact medically if you have a phobia that serious you must not under any circumstances pursue anything that could trigger that fear. A person with a fear of heights doesn't get scared in high places, they have a fucking panic attack, most of the time they become to agitated to even get down.

As stated, they don't live with that fear because they choose not to overcome it, the live with it because they can't overcome it. If they don't want to do it, then they missed nothing. Hell maybe they did, maybe they didn't, your experiences are not universal, not everyone will share your love for something, or enjoy what you enjoy.

Congratulations, you're missing out on being shot, by the way you have been talking, you're missing a great experience, and your life will not be complete without it! For a person with Arachnophobia, going to a place with spiders can be as bad, or potentially worse, than being shot. You want them to go to the spider museum? You may as well just shoot them, make sure they experience it all!

 

[Zeke_warhammer]

Gonna stop trying to make this a pissing contest any time soon? What I'm getting at is that I do not like manipulative women, just like women don't like manipulative men. You sir, are now putting words in my mouth and I would appreciate it if you would kindly stop

I don't think I put words in your mouth. I merely responded to what you typed. If what you said wasn't what you meant then you may want to consider the implications of what you are writing in future.

Welcome to the Escapist.

You responded to my original post chastising me for not having a meaningful relationship. I say that I am in one, you call me a sexist, where are you going with this sir? Perhaps we may not have the same train of thought but your responses suggest you're purposefully trying to get a rise out of me, or that you believe sexism to be everywhere. I'm going to go with the former as you seem to just want to argue. Good day sir.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Sorry, I do know that. I was just meaning that the idea that oxytocin necessarily creates stronger bonds between people is perhaps a little simplistic. Oxytocin is also released by breast feeding, but isn't enough on its own to prevent child-rejection.

That would imply a breakdown in the process, certainly, but breakdowns in organic processes are pretty commonplace, for a variety of reasons. I mean, my immune system isn't supposed to attack me, and yet it does. That doesn't call into question what the purpose of an immune system is, it just points out that mine is wonky.

The interaction between different chemicals, hormones and emotions can get very complicated. If you want proof, ask anyone with severe postnatal depression/psychosis. The fact that systems designed to ensure a mother bonds with her child can (in extreme cases) lead to infanticide is a scary example of how non-simple it all is.

I also assume (I haven't done the reading on this particular matter) that either oxytocin is released in more situations than the holy trinity of sex/childbirth/breastfeeding, or it isn't required for all loving bonds. Fathers love their children without giving birth to them or breast-feeding them (or having sex with them!).

I believe it can be released through touch as well, like hugging and cuddling, but don't quote me on that. A quick google search also shows that oxycotin and prolactin spike in fathers with newly born children as well, so that seems to be some kind of spontaneous production of bonding hormones in the presence of your offspring. Nature be crazy, yo.

Basically, biology is fun but complicated. There isn't really a "love chemical" any more than there's a "speech region" in the brain. There are just things that contribute to other things in often strange round-about ways that have evolved haphazardly over billions of years.

Obviously it's more complicated than getting a spurt of Love Potion #9 into your brain and falling in love, but as all these emotional processes are chemical/biological, oxycotin seems as likely a candidate as any to be a prime culprit when you find yourself loving someone. To go back to my original point, asexuals shouldn't really be flagellating people for desiring physical intimacy, as we're biologically hard-wired to want/crave it. Well, most of us, anyway.

 

[The Artificially Prolonged]

It's simple...

People will take the piss out of you for anything and everything.

In fact i'm sure some of you look down on others for being religious or at least mock them for it?

Well the fact you're a virgin as harsh as this sounds is something to be mocked for just like anything else dickheads will mock you for.

Just don't let it get to you, go about your day and don't think about it, seriously worrying about this shit isn't good.

Also! think about it this way...

Statistically your bloodline and family have done something right for generations! so chances are you will get some dick/puss depending on your preference. Don't worry about it yo, it may take awhile but when you get there it will be awesome .

Spoiler

and probably quite short lived experience the first time to!

This. I doesn't matter what it is, some people will find something about you to mock and make themselves feel superior. The best course of action is to not give a damn.

 

[lacktheknack]

I don't ever encounter it, personally.

I mean, I see it in people younger than me, but it's actually easier to shame the guys who get around by asking them how it feels to look down on someone with better self-control. That's obviously a silly argument based on assumption, but it makes them turn red and shut up, so apparently the assumption is correct.

 

[Zhukov]

Oh, come on.

It's not that bloody complicated.

The vast majority of male virgins are virgins because for one reason or another they have failed to attract a mate. (They will of course deny this with the ferocity of a thousand blazing supernovas, but they're not fooling anyone.) So they are made fun of for their failure in the same way others are fun of for theirs.

Then they get together in the sadder corners of the internet and claim not to understand what anyone's talking about and reassure each other that, no really, they're just not focussed on relationships right now and society just doesn't understand.

...

It's obviously not a nice thing to do to people, but that's why it happens.

Except it isn't. And you're exactly the kind of person the OP is talking about.

I get along great with girls, however if any of my female friends were to ask me out, I'd say 'no'. If it were a drunken one night stand then my judgement might change, however I really can't stand people who feel the need to insult and mock others simply because they want to feel good about themselves.

EDIT: the reason I'd say no isn't because I claim to be asexual or any of that nonsense. It's simply because I can't stand to be around judgemental dipshits 24/7 when I have much more important things to attend to. You know, like trying to get by?

Throw around your "you're just kidding yourself" and "you're just trying to reassure yourself that you're not a loser" comments all you want. If you're that stupid as to think so little of every virgin then you're obviously even less of a person than them.

You seem to have edited out that one part where you called me an asshole.

Anyway, you're making a great deal of assumptions regarding my attitude. Heh, it's actually kind of funny, considering.

I don't despise male virgins and I don't approve of mocking people for their failures. It's needless and cruel.

However, I will mercilessly point out when people are feigning incomprehension in order to seek reassurance. We all know perfectly well why male virgins receive ridicule. We don't have to approve of the situation, but we all understand it just fine.

 

[Thyunda]

Well, I always figured it was due to the way men are generally expected or assumed to behave. We approach girls. Not the other way around. A virgin girl is a girl whose standards are so high she's rejected every man to try. A virgin man has been rejected at every turn and therefore is intrinsically inferior.

Also apparently losing your virginity changes the way you behave.
Or at least, that's what was implied when I was accused of not changing at all.

 

[hooblabla6262]

Then I would say work towards overcoming your fears?
Unless living in fear is a great experience that I'm missing out on.
I'm afraid of the ocean, but I still go scuba diving every chance I get.
And in context with the main topic, if you are afraid of having sex, you shouldn't be.

I understand that people can have bad experiences, and it can shape their outlook on that particular matter, be it sex or sky diving or whatever.
I think you would be foolish to say it is better to live with that fear than to slowly work at overcoming it.

And just because someone feels like they aren't missing out on anything, doesn't make it true. What makes it true is when they actually do what it is that is being discussed.
They may not like the spider museum, but they are still missing out on it by not going. The world doesn't stop existing just because you aren't interested, or are afraid of it.

For example, I am currently missing out on being shot. Though it is not an experience I would enjoy, I am still missing out by not experiencing it. (I couldn't think of a better negative example than being shot)

A fear of heights or other phobias are not that easy to overcome, and for many they are impossible to overcome. In fact medically if you have a phobia that serious you must not under any circumstances pursue anything that could trigger that fear. A person with a fear of heights doesn't get scared in high places, they have a fucking panic attack, most of the time they become to agitated to even get down.

As stated, they don't live with that fear because they choose not to overcome it, the live with it because they can't overcome it. If they don't want to do it, then they missed nothing. Hell maybe they did, maybe they didn't, your experiences are not universal, not everyone will share your love for something, or enjoy what you enjoy.

Congratulations, you're missing out on being shot, by the way you have been talking, you're missing a great experience, and your life will not be complete without it! For a person with Arachnophobia, going to a place with spiders can be as bad, or potentially worse, than being shot. You want them to go to the spider museum? You may as well just shoot them, make sure they experience it all!

I didn't say it would be easy to overcome these fear, just that it was possible. It might be highly improbable for them to do it on their own, but that is why we have family/friends/lovers/trained professionals for just this kind of thing.

And yes, my shooting example was kind of ridiculous. I'll admit to that again, as I already did. But I think you missed the point. An experience can be good or bad, but if you haven't experienced it then you are, in all literal terms within the realms of reality and what is known to be true, missing out on something.
That's not my opinion, just a statement of fact. If you don't do something, then you haven't experienced it. If you haven't experienced it, then you've missed out on it. Get it yet?

And no. Being shot is in no way better than going to a spider museum with a fear of spiders. Don't get on my back for having a silly example, then walk off the deep end yourself.

(I won't even get in to the fact that you just said I should be shot. I'll let the rest of the world judge you for that one.)

 

[Jenvas1306]

SNIP

Naturally you need to search a bit, its just when it comes to a situation where you could have sex for the sake of having sex, or do it cause you want to do it with that certain person, where sex is just a natural extension of your attraction, rather than a sort of goal.

Well, I always figured it was due to the way men are generally expected or assumed to behave. We approach girls. Not the other way around. A virgin girl is a girl whose standards are so high she's rejected every man to try. A virgin man has been rejected at every turn and therefore is intrinsically inferior.

Also apparently losing your virginity changes the way you behave.
Or at least, that's what was implied when I was accused of not changing at all.

Its not like its much different for women, at a certain age people assume something is wrong with you if you dont have a boyfriend, presumely as its easier for women to get a guy, or something like that.

 

[Madgamer13]

Greets!

Male virgin shaming only really applies to the teenage and early twenties years, when men are attempting to be men and women are attempting to make men be men. Ironically, the whole concept of sexuality and the shaming of such is a symptom of the journey of identifying oneself. There is no doubt that chemicals exist that would draw a human to sexual interactions, but the more advanced concepts, such as the identification of sexuality and the shaming of such, is a conscious construct in reaction to experiences.

As such, if someone is shaming you for being a virgin, they are doing that for a particular reason appliable to themselves. Maybe they dont have much of a sex life themselves? Or the experience wasn't what they expected it to be? Regardless, someone shaming another about sexuality is for a reason they hold themselves, not just because it may be a 'social norm'

As one gets older, instances of sexuality based shaming lessens due to more pressing issues, like your bits starting to sag and your job demanding that one additional shift. Ultimately, it could only ever matter to those involved if they do not resolve the negative experiences related to shaming. Such is the real threat to virgin shaming, if that virgin holds onto those negative experiences from the shaming, even after they have become Mister KeyDick or Miss LooseLock, they might turn into something worse than an asshole.

Personally, as I now approach twenty eight years old and still a virgin, I care less for something I havn't experienced, in contrast to the relationships I hold with people. But I have the benefit of being heavily analytical of my own mind, so I am aware of the extent of my own sexuality. I have also experienced the negativity associated to people using sexuality as a weapon against others and as ways of coping, something which has jaded my view of the importance of sex in a relationship.

This does mean that I'll be holding onto my negative experiences of sexuality for a long while yet, which will no doubt have a very bad effect on my ability to attract a mate, but this doesn't matter to me. I choose apathy over being emotional over sexual relationships, simply because this is my own way of coping. This does, of course, impact a personal shame that increasingly becomes viable in the light that I am an only child; Only I can continue my specific bloodline and my apathy shames my ability to produce the next generation of my family.

Before the literal extinction of your specific family bloodline, all other types of shaming is pointless.

Of course, I could always chicken out, visit one of those clinics and pay for a fertile human egg for some test-tube baby goodness. Good thing I live in this era.

 

[Jenvas1306]

I want an M2F Transgender girlfriend... They are always so nice, but always so taken X3.

What is so nice about them exactly?