I don't understand male virgin shaming.

[Gregory McMillan]

As Asexual I cant understand this at all. I think it is admirable if someone who has sexual impulses is able to control them completely to the point that hes is conscious about hes needs/desires but wont act upon them until he and hes partner wants.

I am myself completely unable to understand how does the fact that I am Asexual make me a less of a man. Yes I am a virgin in hes 20's and I don't give a fuck about fuck (pardon). But if I look at the mirror and my DNA I see a man.

The shaming in my opinion comes from men who are driven by their desires and are unable to understand if someone is able to control them. They feel that those people are different and as we know most people are afraid of that what is different.

I think those men that make fun of male virgins are the lesser men. Manhood is not defined by your masculine needs, but by your ability to control those needs.

But who am I to say anything about this subject - I am broken human after-all.

Tho I am very sad of the fact that many of my relationships have hit an iceberg and sunk when my partner learned that I don't care of sex. The first few months of social relationships were great but when they wanted to take next step and "go for it" they were dispointed and decided to end it. - Unfair in my opinion.

Well you have to understand that relationships are really the polite beginnings of making babies and starting a family. It might not be at the forefront of our minds but it's hardwired into our DNA. We've civilized and romanticized sex and family building. Attraction is mostly based on finding a mate. Indeed sexuality isn't a permanent thing. So might think your asexual now, but maybe in a couple years your nature might kick in and you'll take an interest in sex.

Yeah sexual development starts around the age of 11-13 I am over 20 now (I don't care for you to know my exact age, it is irrelevant). It is nice to see that you are able to understand my whole self-being and ego along with my sexual identity based on few short posts on a Internet forum.
Far as I know, according to psychology - I as a male should be in my sexual prime and full development now.

- You should become a developmental psychologist...

/No offense, but don't try to equalize world views without getting to know the person a bit better beforehand.

I wasn't claiming to know you, I was putting out a general assertion that applies to the majority of relationships. I had once claimed asexual, but that is over. I was just relating an experience. I don't need to get to know you to understand your perspective. I was just sharing mine to hopefully help you better understand the situation.

 

[gravian]

Snip *Difficulties with asexual relationships*.

Well if you're honest with them straight from the get go then it really is their problem later down the track, versus you dropping the bomb after a period of courting.

Some of these young ladies might not believe you're truly asexual or may have misguided notions that they can change this. It's better to be super-duper-brutally clear from the start and risk losing them there then later on.

To non-asexuals (is the term just sexual?) well sex is one of the most important things ever. Sex is also tied heavily into emotion and love. Most people would rather have both their emotional and sexual needs met by the same person than split it between two parties. It's just a sexual person thing.

If you're not interested in sex in a romantic relationship, whether you're a man or woman you really have to hammer it home at the start or early on so both partners understand each other. What I think is happening is that when someone says "I don't want to have sex in a relationship, I'm just not interested", their partner interprets it as "I don't want you to feel pressured/ be pressured myself into having sex before the right time, I just want to take this steady and do it when we feel sure". It just sounds like you want to reassure your partner that you're not just doing this for the sex, you want a meaningful and long term relationship with sex as a natural evolution of it, in my mind. To most people not wanting to have sex at all in a romantic relationship, no matter how far it develops, seems kinda strange and not something they can understand.

The guy above has the right idea. Also what

Snip.

Snip *Hormones and biological imperative*.

said on the first page is basically why.

 

[CentralScrtnzr]

There are too many people under drinking age in this thread.

It is very difficult to have self-respect when it's all too frequently taken away from you by the school and university politics of fucking children.

You realize, after a bit, that men who defined themselves as masculine by requiring sexual conquest of women, really depend upon women for their own self-image. They are slaves. The player culture demeans and dehumanizes men; you're nothing more than the notches on the bed post; you're nothing more than what women think of you.

Much better to be a virgin and have some goddamn self respect than to be a mattress hellion and have no sense of who you are.

 

[The Great JT]

Here's my theory. Male virgins exist through either bad luck with women or a lack of a desire to do the deed.

 

[Powereaver]

I think its this whole image of the "macho or real man" ... which is complete crap.. i think being a virgin doesnt make you any less of a person in any way .. and if you want to wait.. more power to you because its BLOODY HARD!.

 

[Kuilui]

Here's my theory. Male virgins exist through either bad luck with women or a lack of a desire to do the deed.

In my case its both lol. The very few times I asked a girl out I got shot down and when girls were interested in me I simply did not care at all or was totally oblivious but still probably would have said no thanks. Me wanting a girlfriend is a moment that occurs in me every few years. I usually get depressed, want a girlfriend for about a week and then the desire totally vanishes basically and doesn't show back up for another 3 or 4 years. I just enjoy being a hermit for the most part. Other people bore me *Shrugs* I'm 23 by the way.

 

[2xDouble]

And yet, here they are discussing it in pseudo-public... making a big deal out of it, according to the comments in between these. Kids these days, hm?

discussing it is good and all..I was more refering too "I want my first tiem to be super duper special with unicorns!!" mentality or "OH MY GOD YOUR A VIRGIN THATS SO SAD LOLOLOLOLO" type thing

There are other sentiments on this topic? (besides "meh", of course... this is the internet, after all.)

Dripping with sarcasm, but I'm actually surprised by this...

 

[Colour Scientist]

I think at least party its also because of the fact that its seen as a coming of age thing. Like, if you haven't had sex, your still a child, but once you hit that, boom, manhood.

Then come the moustaches.

That's how it works, right?

 

[Geo Da Sponge]

Not having kids is failing your species

There's plenty of us on this planet, I think we'll be fine if someone doesn't decide to pop out a few more babies.

OT: It pisses me off too. Sure I joke about it with my boyfriend (I took his virginity and his sign happens to be Virgo), but I really don't think less of him because he was one.

Some people have higher standards than fine

...Do those standards involve rampant overpopulation?

 

[manic_depressive13]

You kind of did. Just because a person is looking for sex does not make them sexist, its a normal biological function. He said he didn't like it when people took advantage of this function, you called him sexist and accused him of treating women as machines who are meant to dish out sex after you put enough money in.

How the hell is that not putting words in his mouth? You're correct on one thing though. Welcome to the Escapist Zeke, this is what it's like here.

Wanting sex does not make one sexist. Pursuing a woman on the hopes of having sex with her alone, and then accusing her of being a manipulative gold digger when she doesn't have sex with you, is sexist.

 

[babinro]

As far as I'm concerned it's just a media thing.

It surprises people initially but no one has ever heckled me for being a virgin in my 30's.

 

[nexus]

Shaming male virgins (female too, just not the same) is still one of the most practiced and accept forms of bullying in society today. People commit suicide over it. Yet you still see "shaming" in popular culture, even box-office movies, "40 Year Old Virgin" e.g. If you out yourself as a virgin in the workplace, or even school, you can expect (depending on where you are, you can *expect*) to be made fun of or receive "shaming". If and when you do this, you are told it was your fault to begin with, and that should have been your "secret". It's not the people bullying at fault, it is *you* for letting out your "secret". Of course, if you were gay, and outed yourself, those same bullies would be reprimanded, fired or "talked to".

It's really quite stupid, and anyone that partakes in it should feel guilt. There are many reasons why someone, a male, has not had sex yet. Maybe they're still waiting for that special person.. it may be that they're just wired this way. Introverts are known to have few friends, but they hold that small number friends in extremely high esteem.

A new trend also seems to be showing, in that people are looking past the very dull facade of "how one is supposed to be" in society. If for instance, you are a very intelligent, mature and quality individual, you can't bring all of that to the "game" if you want to simply find a quick mate. You have to act a "certain way". You have to go through a primitive checklist for your mate.

Maybe the person *IS* socially awkward, maybe they *DO* have a disability. Whatever reason the case may be, it *DOESN'T MATTER* that they have not had sex yet. It is perfectly A-Okay. If you are measuring a human's worth on whether or not they have sex, then *YOU* are one with the problem.

 

[Beffudled Sheep_v1legacy]

Not having kids is failing your species

There's plenty of us on this planet, I think we'll be fine if someone doesn't decide to pop out a few more babies.

OT: It pisses me off too. Sure I joke about it with my boyfriend (I took his virginity and his sign happens to be Virgo), but I really don't think less of him because he was one.

Some people have higher standards than fine

...Do those standards involve rampant overpopulation?

We'll find a prupose for the excess humans one day. Perhaps soylent green will come along Yummy ^_^

Eh I don't get it. Sex isn't anything special and I don't see why its such a "rite of passage" or whatever.

 

[idon'tknowaboutthat]

Snip

Snip

You kind of did. Just because a person is looking for sex does not make them sexist, its a normal biological function. He said he didn't like it when people took advantage of this function, you called him sexist and accused him of treating women as machines who are meant to dish out sex after you put enough money in.

How the hell is that not putting words in his mouth? You're correct on one thing though. Welcome to the Escapist Zeke, this is what it's like here.

Snip

He didn't do any such thing. He attempted to clarify (which shouldn't really have been necessary, but given how much abuse he's taken in the thread apparently was) what he was driving at, and yet here you are, still attacking him for something he never said.

You cannot 'guarantee' that no one is feigning incomprehension in order to seek reassurance unless you are secretly Professor X, and I rather suspect you are not. This kind of thread is an analogue to the "I don't like popular thing X, I demand people tell me why X is popular" threads. People know damn well why, and if they were actually curious Google would be a far more compelling source of information on the topic than ye olde internet forum. I tend to agree with Zhukov on this. When you reach into a public forum for opinions on an issue like this, you are seeking commonality in your community. You want your perspective validated. You're looking for posts that say "hear hear!" and "such people are idiots, pay them no heed!".

Yes. Yes. Thank god there are some sensible people here who are calling out the insensible people. The original posts were extremely refreshing in their honesty, and it was depressing seeing them attacked by people who are just so sensitive they take offense to everything. So, I thank both of you gents for your service.

In particular, I agree with Zhukov (follow the second chain up to see his post). The whole issue is kinda cut and dry. People will make fun of others for anything they can come up with. It sucks, but that's a "weakness" they exploit. I mean, let's be honest, for the majority of "old" male virgins that are being shamed, we're dealing with the nerd stereotype, and it's just inability, not choice, no matter what you argue.

You could say if you don't procreate, you're kinda a failure, just biologically, aren't you? That's a reason to tease and a point to draw attention to. Not making a negative comment to anyone who's gunna go, "OH, but I'm asexual", just purely from a clinical standpoint you're not accomplishing your job.

For perspective, I'm also a failure, so nobody needs to get upset here. Again, that's just how I see myself, no offense.

 

[Faerillis]

The problem is that people care at all. It's sex, it's private, worry about their personality instead. A Virgin Douchebag, and a non-Virgin Douchebag are still fucking douchebags ? in one case it's simply literal.

 

[Hap2]

As Asexual I cant understand this at all. I think it is admirable if someone who has sexual impulses is able to control them completely to the point that hes is conscious about hes needs/desires but wont act upon them until he and hes partner wants.

I am myself completely unable to understand how does the fact that I am Asexual make me a less of a man. Yes I am a virgin in hes 20's and I don't give a fuck about fuck (pardon). But if I look at the mirror and my DNA I see a man.

The shaming in my opinion comes from men who are driven by their desires and are unable to understand if someone is able to control them. They feel that those people are different and as we know most people are afraid of that what is different.

I think those men that make fun of male virgins are the lesser men. Manhood is not defined by your masculine needs, but by your ability to control those needs.

But who am I to say anything about this subject - I am broken human after-all.

Tho I am very sad of the fact that many of my relationships have hit an iceberg and sunk when my partner learned that I don't care of sex. The first few months of social relationships were great but when they wanted to take next step and "go for it" they were dispointed and decided to end it. - Unfair in my opinion.

Well you have to understand that relationships are really the polite beginnings of making babies and starting a family. It might not be at the forefront of our minds but it's hardwired into our DNA. We've civilized and romanticized sex and family building. Attraction is mostly based on finding a mate. Indeed sexuality isn't a permanent thing. So might think your asexual now, but maybe in a couple years your nature might kick in and you'll take an interest in sex.

Yeah sexual development starts around the age of 11-13 I am over 20 now (I don't care for you to know my exact age, it is irrelevant). It is nice to see that you are able to understand my whole self-being and ego along with my sexual identity based on few short posts on a Internet forum.
Far as I know, according to psychology - I as a male should be in my sexual prime and full development now.

- You should become a developmental psychologist...

/No offense, but don't try to equalize world views without getting to know the person a bit better beforehand.

I wasn't claiming to know you, I was putting out a general assertion that applies to the majority of relationships. I had once claimed asexual, but that is over. I was just relating an experience. I don't need to get to know you to understand your perspective. I was just sharing mine to hopefully help you better understand the situation.

Actually it was likely your assertion SinisterGehe was responding to: "Indeed sexuality isn't a permanent thing. So might think your asexual now, but maybe in a couple years your nature might kick in and you'll take an interest in sex."

That statement has very negative implications, even if you were not aware of them:

1) That having no intrinsic desire for sex must be unnatural.
2) Asexuality is a phase.

Speaking as somebody who has struggled with his own asexuality through much sexual experimentation and self-reflection, I can understand how such implications may come across as offensive to some; especially to older asexuals, who have had the experience and time to self-reflect on their sexuality. For some people, their sexuality is a very permanent thing beyond their control.

However, I do not disagree with you that for some people, they may not be permanent asexuals. Only that your wording could be seen as problematic.

 

[MrHide-Patten]

Well it goes thus, as males serve as hunters throughout the evolution of man, they then 'hunt' the women. So a man that hasn't caught a woman is a bad hunter, this also explains the why a father will congratulate his son for having sex as early as he can and disown his daughter if she ever has a sexual thought.

Men are hunters, women are prey. Not a thought process I subscribe to, but seeing as how most people running popular culture nowadays still throw their poo around and look like gorillas I can can why it is still the public standard.

 

[Bat Vader]

Not having kids is failing your species

If not having children makes me a failure to my species than I will gladly be labeled as a failure to my species. Becoming a parent is one of the worst things that could happen to me.

 

[CrimsonBlaze]

Men are depicted as and expected to be aggressors, being sexually aggressive is the "proper" way to be a man. If you aren't, then you are looked down upon by other men. On the off hand, women who have sex with lots of men are seen as disgusting sluts, so really that makes no sense. Men have to be having sex with someone, right?

It's a messed up expectation sprouting from the patriarchy and how men are supposed to be dominant.

Personally someone's sex life and who they sleep with isn't anyone's business, and I don't know why the world cares so much about it.

Ah, those were the days.

Seems that when I was a teen, if you were athletically adept to all sports, confident in yourself, witty, smart, cool with everyone, and didn't give a s*** about what anyone said about you, you were pretty much untouchable. At least that what it felt like to me. All those manly men who got girls pregnant and got into fights that cost them a few weeks in juvi didn't seem to be that noteworthy at all. Still, that's how I rolled so everyone's experience might have been slightly different.

 

[SinisterGehe]

There are too many people under drinking age in this thread.

It is very difficult to have self-respect when it's all too frequently taken away from you by the school and university politics of fucking children.

You realize, after a bit, that men who defined themselves as masculine by requiring sexual conquest of women, really depend upon women for their own self-image. They are slaves. The player culture demeans and dehumanizes men; you're nothing more than the notches on the bed post; you're nothing more than what women think of you.

Much better to be a virgin and have some goddamn self respect than to be a mattress hellion and have no sense of who you are.

Well basically this...
the idea of masculinity that we have defined in this culture of ours is based on the idea that men have to have sex in order to be men. It is pressured by media and social environment, far as I know humans do not HAVE TO HAVE sex in order to survive (By this I mean staying alive) it is only to ensure the passing on of genes.

Sadly since evolution has gotten rid of the natural selection of strongest and healthiest and now days anyone can breed regardless of their defining parameters. Even gay men and women, via sperm donation. In nature this wouldn't happen. (I am not saying there is anything wrong or odd about it, but in nature 2 males or 2 females do not equal off-spring (I know there are some special species that can change gender or be both genders the same time, but again special cases not the norm).

I'd say have self-respect instead of going with the pressure and doing things that you might not be interested, care for or need to do.

Self respect over social acceptance should be the norm. But sadly people are shallow and stupid, specially when it comes to sex.