I don't understand male virgin shaming.

[idon'tknowaboutthat]

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You kind of did. Just because a person is looking for sex does not make them sexist, its a normal biological function. He said he didn't like it when people took advantage of this function, you called him sexist and accused him of treating women as machines who are meant to dish out sex after you put enough money in.

How the hell is that not putting words in his mouth? You're correct on one thing though. Welcome to the Escapist Zeke, this is what it's like here.

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He didn't do any such thing. He attempted to clarify (which shouldn't really have been necessary, but given how much abuse he's taken in the thread apparently was) what he was driving at, and yet here you are, still attacking him for something he never said.

You cannot 'guarantee' that no one is feigning incomprehension in order to seek reassurance unless you are secretly Professor X, and I rather suspect you are not. This kind of thread is an analogue to the "I don't like popular thing X, I demand people tell me why X is popular" threads. People know damn well why, and if they were actually curious Google would be a far more compelling source of information on the topic than ye olde internet forum. I tend to agree with Zhukov on this. When you reach into a public forum for opinions on an issue like this, you are seeking commonality in your community. You want your perspective validated. You're looking for posts that say "hear hear!" and "such people are idiots, pay them no heed!".

Yes. Yes. Thank god there are some sensible people here who are calling out the insensible people. The original posts were extremely refreshing in their honesty, and it was depressing seeing them attacked by people who are just so sensitive they take offense to everything. So, I thank both of you gents for your service.

In particular, I agree with Zhukov (follow the second chain up to see his post). The whole issue is kinda cut and dry. People will make fun of others for anything they can come up with. It sucks, but that's a "weakness" they exploit. I mean, let's be honest, for the majority of "old" male virgins that are being shamed, we're dealing with the nerd stereotype, and it's just inability, not choice, no matter what you argue.

You could say if you don't procreate, you're kinda a failure, just biologically, aren't you? That's a reason to tease and a point to draw attention to. Not making a negative comment to anyone who's gunna go, "OH, but I'm asexual", just purely from a clinical standpoint you're not accomplishing your job.

For perspective, I'm also a failure, so nobody needs to get upset here. Again, that's just how I see myself, no offense.

 

[Faerillis]

The problem is that people care at all. It's sex, it's private, worry about their personality instead. A Virgin Douchebag, and a non-Virgin Douchebag are still fucking douchebags ? in one case it's simply literal.

 

[Hap2]

As Asexual I cant understand this at all. I think it is admirable if someone who has sexual impulses is able to control them completely to the point that hes is conscious about hes needs/desires but wont act upon them until he and hes partner wants.

I am myself completely unable to understand how does the fact that I am Asexual make me a less of a man. Yes I am a virgin in hes 20's and I don't give a fuck about fuck (pardon). But if I look at the mirror and my DNA I see a man.

The shaming in my opinion comes from men who are driven by their desires and are unable to understand if someone is able to control them. They feel that those people are different and as we know most people are afraid of that what is different.

I think those men that make fun of male virgins are the lesser men. Manhood is not defined by your masculine needs, but by your ability to control those needs.

But who am I to say anything about this subject - I am broken human after-all.

Tho I am very sad of the fact that many of my relationships have hit an iceberg and sunk when my partner learned that I don't care of sex. The first few months of social relationships were great but when they wanted to take next step and "go for it" they were dispointed and decided to end it. - Unfair in my opinion.

Well you have to understand that relationships are really the polite beginnings of making babies and starting a family. It might not be at the forefront of our minds but it's hardwired into our DNA. We've civilized and romanticized sex and family building. Attraction is mostly based on finding a mate. Indeed sexuality isn't a permanent thing. So might think your asexual now, but maybe in a couple years your nature might kick in and you'll take an interest in sex.

Yeah sexual development starts around the age of 11-13 I am over 20 now (I don't care for you to know my exact age, it is irrelevant). It is nice to see that you are able to understand my whole self-being and ego along with my sexual identity based on few short posts on a Internet forum.
Far as I know, according to psychology - I as a male should be in my sexual prime and full development now.

- You should become a developmental psychologist...

/No offense, but don't try to equalize world views without getting to know the person a bit better beforehand.

I wasn't claiming to know you, I was putting out a general assertion that applies to the majority of relationships. I had once claimed asexual, but that is over. I was just relating an experience. I don't need to get to know you to understand your perspective. I was just sharing mine to hopefully help you better understand the situation.

Actually it was likely your assertion SinisterGehe was responding to: "Indeed sexuality isn't a permanent thing. So might think your asexual now, but maybe in a couple years your nature might kick in and you'll take an interest in sex."

That statement has very negative implications, even if you were not aware of them:

1) That having no intrinsic desire for sex must be unnatural.
2) Asexuality is a phase.

Speaking as somebody who has struggled with his own asexuality through much sexual experimentation and self-reflection, I can understand how such implications may come across as offensive to some; especially to older asexuals, who have had the experience and time to self-reflect on their sexuality. For some people, their sexuality is a very permanent thing beyond their control.

However, I do not disagree with you that for some people, they may not be permanent asexuals. Only that your wording could be seen as problematic.

 

[MrHide-Patten]

Well it goes thus, as males serve as hunters throughout the evolution of man, they then 'hunt' the women. So a man that hasn't caught a woman is a bad hunter, this also explains the why a father will congratulate his son for having sex as early as he can and disown his daughter if she ever has a sexual thought.

Men are hunters, women are prey. Not a thought process I subscribe to, but seeing as how most people running popular culture nowadays still throw their poo around and look like gorillas I can can why it is still the public standard.

 

[Bat Vader]

Not having kids is failing your species

If not having children makes me a failure to my species than I will gladly be labeled as a failure to my species. Becoming a parent is one of the worst things that could happen to me.

 

[CrimsonBlaze]

Men are depicted as and expected to be aggressors, being sexually aggressive is the "proper" way to be a man. If you aren't, then you are looked down upon by other men. On the off hand, women who have sex with lots of men are seen as disgusting sluts, so really that makes no sense. Men have to be having sex with someone, right?

It's a messed up expectation sprouting from the patriarchy and how men are supposed to be dominant.

Personally someone's sex life and who they sleep with isn't anyone's business, and I don't know why the world cares so much about it.

Ah, those were the days.

Seems that when I was a teen, if you were athletically adept to all sports, confident in yourself, witty, smart, cool with everyone, and didn't give a s*** about what anyone said about you, you were pretty much untouchable. At least that what it felt like to me. All those manly men who got girls pregnant and got into fights that cost them a few weeks in juvi didn't seem to be that noteworthy at all. Still, that's how I rolled so everyone's experience might have been slightly different.

 

[SinisterGehe]

There are too many people under drinking age in this thread.

It is very difficult to have self-respect when it's all too frequently taken away from you by the school and university politics of fucking children.

You realize, after a bit, that men who defined themselves as masculine by requiring sexual conquest of women, really depend upon women for their own self-image. They are slaves. The player culture demeans and dehumanizes men; you're nothing more than the notches on the bed post; you're nothing more than what women think of you.

Much better to be a virgin and have some goddamn self respect than to be a mattress hellion and have no sense of who you are.

Well basically this...
the idea of masculinity that we have defined in this culture of ours is based on the idea that men have to have sex in order to be men. It is pressured by media and social environment, far as I know humans do not HAVE TO HAVE sex in order to survive (By this I mean staying alive) it is only to ensure the passing on of genes.

Sadly since evolution has gotten rid of the natural selection of strongest and healthiest and now days anyone can breed regardless of their defining parameters. Even gay men and women, via sperm donation. In nature this wouldn't happen. (I am not saying there is anything wrong or odd about it, but in nature 2 males or 2 females do not equal off-spring (I know there are some special species that can change gender or be both genders the same time, but again special cases not the norm).

I'd say have self-respect instead of going with the pressure and doing things that you might not be interested, care for or need to do.

Self respect over social acceptance should be the norm. But sadly people are shallow and stupid, specially when it comes to sex.

 

[Dogstile]

You kind of did. Just because a person is looking for sex does not make them sexist, its a normal biological function. He said he didn't like it when people took advantage of this function, you called him sexist and accused him of treating women as machines who are meant to dish out sex after you put enough money in.

How the hell is that not putting words in his mouth? You're correct on one thing though. Welcome to the Escapist Zeke, this is what it's like here.

Wanting sex does not make one sexist. Pursuing a woman on the hopes of having sex with her alone, and then accusing her of being a manipulative gold digger when she doesn't have sex with you, is sexist.

Well isn't it lucky that in his entire post, he never did such a thing and you just assumed he did. People who use the promise of sex to get things do exist, he just said he didn't like those people. You shouldn't have attacked him over it, it was childish, especially as you did in fact, put words in his mouth.

 

[Starik20X6]

Oh, come on.

It's not that bloody complicated.

The vast majority of male virgins are virgins because for one reason or another they have failed to attract a mate. (They will of course deny this with the ferocity of a thousand blazing supernovas, but they're not fooling anyone.) So they are made fun of for their failure in the same way others are fun of for theirs.

Then they get together in the musty corners of the internet and claim not to understand what anyone's talking about and reassure each other that, no really, they're just not focussed on relationships right now and society just doesn't understand.

...

It's obviously not a nice thing to do to people, but that's why it happens.

And the nail has been thoroughly hit on the head.

I'm also going to point out that I think a lot of this so-called 'virgin shaming' might be self-inflicted. I'd never experienced or have seen anyone else experience any kind of actual 'shaming' by a non-virgin, but I know that when I was a virgin that I was embarrassed for myself, not because anyone else made me feel embarrassed. When you realise that the world doesn't care as much about it as you think it does, it's a pretty good feeling.

And funnily enough, once you stop worrying about it, you'll find it's so much easier to get laid. Unless you're one of those types that doesn't shower or go outside for months at a time, then you'll probably still have a hard time...

 

[VeneratedWulfen93]

I could give zero fucks. I was crazy into girls when I was 14 but then I just realised "Whats the point? Why am I chasing after these shallow creatures?"
So I'll probably stay a virgin for at least another year (I have a bet with friends that I can turn 20 and still have it. The pots up to £30 now) but even then I'll be not chasing after it. Call me sad but I prefer my games, my 40k miniatures and a good laugh with mates to female company. Sure I can talk to them but if I'm not drunk then I just give them cold indifferance most of the time.

People can point how how sad or how I'm missing out all they want but my life is mine. I don't want to share it with anyone.

 

[Fluffythepoo]

Not having kids is failing your species

There's plenty of us on this planet, I think we'll be fine if someone doesn't decide to pop out a few more babies.

OT: It pisses me off too. Sure I joke about it with my boyfriend (I took his virginity and his sign happens to be Virgo), but I really don't think less of him because he was one.

Some people have higher standards than fine

...Do those standards involve rampant overpopulation?

can you cite evidence of overpopulation? or are you just throwing around words under the assumption youll be able to fact check wikipedia afterwards?

 

[Geo Da Sponge]

Not having kids is failing your species

There's plenty of us on this planet, I think we'll be fine if someone doesn't decide to pop out a few more babies.

OT: It pisses me off too. Sure I joke about it with my boyfriend (I took his virginity and his sign happens to be Virgo), but I really don't think less of him because he was one.

Some people have higher standards than fine

...Do those standards involve rampant overpopulation?

can you cite evidence of overpopulation? or are you just throwing around words under the assumption youll be able to fact check wikipedia afterwards?

Okay, let's set out the basics here.

1: The population of the Earth is increasing at a steady, significant rate. That's common knowledge.

2: The Earth's resources are finite.

Now, the conclusion of putting these two facts together is that sooner or later we will have more people than we have resources for. Which is not to say that the world is about to implode the next day because of too many people on it, but it's an inevitable conclusion of birth rates at the level they are now.

As a specific example of overpopulation, I think it's fair to say the one-child birth policy in China wasn't put in place for fun. Now chances are you don't live in China, but it demonstrates that overpopulation is a very real possibility. I'm curious though, what do you think the big benefits of people breeding more would be?

 

[Geo Da Sponge]

Not having kids is failing your species

There's plenty of us on this planet, I think we'll be fine if someone doesn't decide to pop out a few more babies.

OT: It pisses me off too. Sure I joke about it with my boyfriend (I took his virginity and his sign happens to be Virgo), but I really don't think less of him because he was one.

Some people have higher standards than fine

...Do those standards involve rampant overpopulation?

can you cite evidence of overpopulation? or are you just throwing around words under the assumption youll be able to fact check wikipedia afterwards?

Okay, let's set out the basics here.

1: The population of the Earth is increasing at a steady, significant rate. That's common knowledge.

2: The Earth's resources are finite.

Now, the conclusion of putting these two facts together is that sooner or later we will have more people than we have resources for. Which is not to say that the world is about to implode the next day because of too many people on it, but it's an inevitable conclusion of birth rates at the level they are now.

As a specific example of overpopulation, I think it's fair to say the one-child birth policy in China wasn't put in place for fun. Now chances are you don't live in China, but it demonstrates that overpopulation is a very real possibility. I'm curious though, what do you think the big benefits of people breeding more would be?

Are you for real here?

You ARE aware that the population in the western world is actually going DOWN right?

The over-population is solely taking place in extremely poor regions of the world where the only chance of survival is having 15 kids that'll take care of you.

Now of course this is a very poor idea as there is already not enough food to feed the third-world, but people who are afraid that they might die tomorrow tend to not act very rationally.

The western world NEEDS to produce MORE children if we don't wanna collapse under the burden of old people who don't pay taxes but still need to be taken care of.

The whole aging population problem thing? I'll admit, that is a concern and I was talking in very broad terms, possibly too broad. However, his original statement was "Not having kids is failing your species". Not "Not having kids is failing your country if you're living in a country with a declining and/or aging population".

On a country level it's obviously more complicated, but on the level of a species, which he was talking on? Yeah, lots more people, not more stuff.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

I don't understand why men who have sex with any girl at all are deserving of more respect than guys who have not.
Even though I'm well past that age where that should matter and I don't have peers who call me out on not pursuing relationships or even one night stands with women, I still wonder why this exists in the first place.

Why does Slut Shaming exist?

Why do women who've had sex with more than one partner get shamed by peers?

It's equally stupid, and yet it goes on.