I don't understand male virgin shaming.

[Dogstile]

You kind of did. Just because a person is looking for sex does not make them sexist, its a normal biological function. He said he didn't like it when people took advantage of this function, you called him sexist and accused him of treating women as machines who are meant to dish out sex after you put enough money in.

How the hell is that not putting words in his mouth? You're correct on one thing though. Welcome to the Escapist Zeke, this is what it's like here.

Wanting sex does not make one sexist. Pursuing a woman on the hopes of having sex with her alone, and then accusing her of being a manipulative gold digger when she doesn't have sex with you, is sexist.

Well isn't it lucky that in his entire post, he never did such a thing and you just assumed he did. People who use the promise of sex to get things do exist, he just said he didn't like those people. You shouldn't have attacked him over it, it was childish, especially as you did in fact, put words in his mouth.

 

[Starik20X6]

Oh, come on.

It's not that bloody complicated.

The vast majority of male virgins are virgins because for one reason or another they have failed to attract a mate. (They will of course deny this with the ferocity of a thousand blazing supernovas, but they're not fooling anyone.) So they are made fun of for their failure in the same way others are fun of for theirs.

Then they get together in the musty corners of the internet and claim not to understand what anyone's talking about and reassure each other that, no really, they're just not focussed on relationships right now and society just doesn't understand.

...

It's obviously not a nice thing to do to people, but that's why it happens.

And the nail has been thoroughly hit on the head.

I'm also going to point out that I think a lot of this so-called 'virgin shaming' might be self-inflicted. I'd never experienced or have seen anyone else experience any kind of actual 'shaming' by a non-virgin, but I know that when I was a virgin that I was embarrassed for myself, not because anyone else made me feel embarrassed. When you realise that the world doesn't care as much about it as you think it does, it's a pretty good feeling.

And funnily enough, once you stop worrying about it, you'll find it's so much easier to get laid. Unless you're one of those types that doesn't shower or go outside for months at a time, then you'll probably still have a hard time...

 

[VeneratedWulfen93]

I could give zero fucks. I was crazy into girls when I was 14 but then I just realised "Whats the point? Why am I chasing after these shallow creatures?"
So I'll probably stay a virgin for at least another year (I have a bet with friends that I can turn 20 and still have it. The pots up to £30 now) but even then I'll be not chasing after it. Call me sad but I prefer my games, my 40k miniatures and a good laugh with mates to female company. Sure I can talk to them but if I'm not drunk then I just give them cold indifferance most of the time.

People can point how how sad or how I'm missing out all they want but my life is mine. I don't want to share it with anyone.

 

[Fluffythepoo]

Not having kids is failing your species

There's plenty of us on this planet, I think we'll be fine if someone doesn't decide to pop out a few more babies.

OT: It pisses me off too. Sure I joke about it with my boyfriend (I took his virginity and his sign happens to be Virgo), but I really don't think less of him because he was one.

Some people have higher standards than fine

...Do those standards involve rampant overpopulation?

can you cite evidence of overpopulation? or are you just throwing around words under the assumption youll be able to fact check wikipedia afterwards?

 

[Geo Da Sponge]

Not having kids is failing your species

There's plenty of us on this planet, I think we'll be fine if someone doesn't decide to pop out a few more babies.

OT: It pisses me off too. Sure I joke about it with my boyfriend (I took his virginity and his sign happens to be Virgo), but I really don't think less of him because he was one.

Some people have higher standards than fine

...Do those standards involve rampant overpopulation?

can you cite evidence of overpopulation? or are you just throwing around words under the assumption youll be able to fact check wikipedia afterwards?

Okay, let's set out the basics here.

1: The population of the Earth is increasing at a steady, significant rate. That's common knowledge.

2: The Earth's resources are finite.

Now, the conclusion of putting these two facts together is that sooner or later we will have more people than we have resources for. Which is not to say that the world is about to implode the next day because of too many people on it, but it's an inevitable conclusion of birth rates at the level they are now.

As a specific example of overpopulation, I think it's fair to say the one-child birth policy in China wasn't put in place for fun. Now chances are you don't live in China, but it demonstrates that overpopulation is a very real possibility. I'm curious though, what do you think the big benefits of people breeding more would be?

 

[Geo Da Sponge]

Not having kids is failing your species

There's plenty of us on this planet, I think we'll be fine if someone doesn't decide to pop out a few more babies.

OT: It pisses me off too. Sure I joke about it with my boyfriend (I took his virginity and his sign happens to be Virgo), but I really don't think less of him because he was one.

Some people have higher standards than fine

...Do those standards involve rampant overpopulation?

can you cite evidence of overpopulation? or are you just throwing around words under the assumption youll be able to fact check wikipedia afterwards?

Okay, let's set out the basics here.

1: The population of the Earth is increasing at a steady, significant rate. That's common knowledge.

2: The Earth's resources are finite.

Now, the conclusion of putting these two facts together is that sooner or later we will have more people than we have resources for. Which is not to say that the world is about to implode the next day because of too many people on it, but it's an inevitable conclusion of birth rates at the level they are now.

As a specific example of overpopulation, I think it's fair to say the one-child birth policy in China wasn't put in place for fun. Now chances are you don't live in China, but it demonstrates that overpopulation is a very real possibility. I'm curious though, what do you think the big benefits of people breeding more would be?

Are you for real here?

You ARE aware that the population in the western world is actually going DOWN right?

The over-population is solely taking place in extremely poor regions of the world where the only chance of survival is having 15 kids that'll take care of you.

Now of course this is a very poor idea as there is already not enough food to feed the third-world, but people who are afraid that they might die tomorrow tend to not act very rationally.

The western world NEEDS to produce MORE children if we don't wanna collapse under the burden of old people who don't pay taxes but still need to be taken care of.

The whole aging population problem thing? I'll admit, that is a concern and I was talking in very broad terms, possibly too broad. However, his original statement was "Not having kids is failing your species". Not "Not having kids is failing your country if you're living in a country with a declining and/or aging population".

On a country level it's obviously more complicated, but on the level of a species, which he was talking on? Yeah, lots more people, not more stuff.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

I don't understand why men who have sex with any girl at all are deserving of more respect than guys who have not.
Even though I'm well past that age where that should matter and I don't have peers who call me out on not pursuing relationships or even one night stands with women, I still wonder why this exists in the first place.

Why does Slut Shaming exist?

Why do women who've had sex with more than one partner get shamed by peers?

It's equally stupid, and yet it goes on.

 

[Ranorak]

Well I would never mock people for being a virgin, I do feel a bit sorry for them.
Not because I think they are social-less losers, or lack the ability to find a girl, I don't.

But simply because I would feel sorry for someone who hasn't gotten on an awesome roller-coaster, or seen an awesome movie.
Sex is a wonderful feeling and I wish that everyone could experience it.

It's kinda like hearing this awesome song, and wishing that other people could enjoy it too.

And hey, if someone decides not to have sex without even trying it, I'd say the same as I said to my friend who's convinced he doesn't like sushi even though he never had any; don't judge before you try.

But again, mocking and shaming is not cool, bro!

 

[Bat Vader]

Tho I am very sad of the fact that many of my relationships have hit an iceberg and sunk when my partner learned that I don't care of sex. The first few months of social relationships were great but when they wanted to take next step and "go for it" they were dispointed and decided to end it. - Unfair in my opinion.

You cannot be serious.

You think it's unfair that people end relationships with you when they realise that there isn't going to be any sex?

You can be as asexual as you want, but expecting non-asexual people to just give up on one of the most powerful biological imperatives they have because you're not interested is nothing short of ridiculous. And I mean that word literally, as in "worthy of ridicule".

In that situation, surprise surprise, they're going to drop you like a hot rock and go looking for someone who's interested in the same thing they are.

You and I disagree about a lot of things, but this isnt one of them. This is going to sound harsh to a lot of people, because it is, but losing your virginity is a requirement for becoming an adult. Its hard to describe the feeling of being wanted, and eventually needed on that kind of level. There is no greater motivation in life.

I don't believe that. There are greater motivations in life. My goal to become an author is a greater motivation for me than sex ever will be. My goal to write a script, sell it, and get it made into a film is a greater motivation for me than sex ever will be.

If losing my virginity leaves me that vulnerable than I have no need for sex nor do I want it. I don't want to be needed either. As I said before in a earlier post I will never trust anyone enough to get that close to someone and I don't want children and remaining a virgin makes that a 100% achievable goal.

If people don't want to acknowledge me as and adult for not losing my virginity, I am fine with that. I have better things to do with my time than worry about what the world thinks of me.

 

[Chicago Ted]

I could give zero fucks. I was crazy into girls when I was 14 but then I just realised "Whats the point? Why am I chasing after these shallow creatures?"
So I'll probably stay a virgin for at least another year (I have a bet with friends that I can turn 20 and still have it. The pots up to £30 now) but even then I'll be not chasing after it. Call me sad but I prefer my games, my 40k miniatures and a good laugh with mates to female company. Sure I can talk to them but if I'm not drunk then I just give them cold indifferance most of the time.

People can point how how sad or how I'm missing out all they want but my life is mine. I don't want to share it with anyone.

I will not call you sad for preferring to play games and hang out with friends. No, I instead see you as that for harbouring such warped misogynistic view point.

To refer to females as "shallow creatures" is perhaps one of the most disgusting things I've seen when reading over most of this thread. Just because they are of another gender, does not make them inherently bad. I'm going to lay on one earth shattering thought for you now in the idea that "Women are people too". There are a good number of them that do not want to pursue you, or to have you pursue them, and who are instead more interested in hanging out, shooting the shit, or just being friends. Just because they're female, doesn't mean they don't enjoy a good game, or just sitting back and enjoying wasting the time away with good company. While all might not share the same interests as you, I can say that there are going to be just as many men who probably don't as well. To have such an aggressive stance against their general existence like that, is something that would make me as a person not want to associate with you. I feel like I have to drum out the most basic lessons taught to you in pre-school here that ?Everyone is a person?.

Seriously, you?re the one referring to them as shallow creatures, yet you sit there from your pedestal judging all as being not worth your time, and not even giving the decency of being polite to them. Do you not see the hypocrisy you create? I do hope you remain a virgin for as long as you keep these views, not out of spite for you, but because I have far more pity for the girl who would wake up beside you, and sees your true colours.

As for an OT view, I do not shame other males for their virginity, UNLESS they speak of sex frequently, but never seem to pursue it themselves. To give context, in one of my social circles, we have one friend, who frequently talks about getting a girl, screwing, and other things similar, but when the time comes he never steps up. When he makes comments or questions on my sex life not being as active as some others (I?ll step aside to highlight that this is of choice, out of that group, I am the one with the lowest sex drive), I?ll follow up by ragging on him for still being a virgin. That I feel though is more due to the fact that he?s the one opening up the box, and trying to tease about it in the first place, so he opens himself up for it.

 

[wolfyrik]

What worries me is that this pressure to be sexual is being piled on women, too. Youger girls are being made to feel ashamed at being a virgin, the way that boys, which seems like a the tip of an iceberg in a very disturbing narative that runs through much of western culture these days. It's like someone's trying to turn the tables on feminism and equality, through the very means by which women have freed themselves over the last 60 or so years.

Being a male virgin does seem to be less of a stigma these days, tho still an issue. It seems to be walking hand in hand with the rise of geek culture.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

And there's entire ideological movements built up around stopping that shit.
But I don't know about you, but I don't remember seeing any "Virgin walks" recently.
That problem is being addressed, this one is not. So sit down please.

**blinks**

And I don't recall reading about any Male Virgins being raped because they were dressing "like virgins."

Now, before this turns into which group has it worse, my point was that these two problems stem from the same pile of outdated bullshit. Fixing one will help to fix the other.

These problems are two sides of the same coin - illogical expectations that men must sleep around while women must protect their chastity. It creates an unhealthy society where men are constantly trying to "invade" a woman because they have to prove their virility while we are supposed to make our legs a fucking fortress.

So no, I will not sit down. And neither should you. Only by working together will we fix both problems, because at their root they are the same problem.

 

[frizzlebyte]

I know from experience many women find virgin guys hot. Sort of like unopened presents I guess or something.

I've heard this too.

That there's a certain appeal to 'deflowering' your partner for the first time.

And...that's no less creepy than a guy who's all hot over a virgin female. I just don't get it. If it's a religious thing, I could understand it, but not as a fetish thing. That's just...ick.

 

[Fluffythepoo]

Not having kids is failing your species

There's plenty of us on this planet, I think we'll be fine if someone doesn't decide to pop out a few more babies.

OT: It pisses me off too. Sure I joke about it with my boyfriend (I took his virginity and his sign happens to be Virgo), but I really don't think less of him because he was one.

Some people have higher standards than fine

...Do those standards involve rampant overpopulation?

can you cite evidence of overpopulation? or are you just throwing around words under the assumption youll be able to fact check wikipedia afterwards?

Okay, let's set out the basics here.

1: The population of the Earth is increasing at a steady, significant rate. That's common knowledge.

2: The Earth's resources are finite.

Now, the conclusion of putting these two facts together is that sooner or later we will have more people than we have resources for. Which is not to say that the world is about to implode the next day because of too many people on it, but it's an inevitable conclusion of birth rates at the level they are now.

As a specific example of overpopulation, I think it's fair to say the one-child birth policy in China wasn't put in place for fun. Now chances are you don't live in China, but it demonstrates that overpopulation is a very real possibility. I'm curious though, what do you think the big benefits of people breeding more would be?

So the evidence to support overpopulation is bad math that contradicts UN projections and a failed chinese policy thats undergoing the process of repeal (because its a bad idea that doesnt work).. you might want to consider reading more than just the basics next time

And if were looking at life in the context of its "benefits" were wasting our time, though one benefit would be a solution to "the whole aging population thing" (which as it turns out is kind of a big deal)

 

[dashiz94]

Hey! Hey everyone! Can you reaffirm my social anxiety by telling me that being a virgin is totally okay?! Please?! God I'm so lonely...

Sarcasm off, fuck these kinds of threads. I'll admit that I'm a virgin but it's not by choice, I just have more difficulty picking up women compared to my friends. And you know what? I'm working to fix that. I'm getting into shape more to become attractice physically, and I'm getting involved in clubs around my campus as well as personal interests (bass, reading, writing) to make myself intellectually appealing. If you're a virgin and all you do about it is mope that society "doesn't understand you" then stop what you're doing, assess what you're doing wrong, and try to find a partner rather than ***** at the world about it.

Christ the persecution complex in this thread is staggering.

 

[dashiz94]

Oh, come on.

It's not that bloody complicated.

The vast majority of male virgins are virgins because for one reason or another they have failed to attract a mate. (They will of course deny this with the ferocity of a thousand blazing supernovas, but they're not fooling anyone.) So they are made fun of for their failure in the same way others are fun of for theirs.

Then they get together in the musty corners of the internet and claim not to understand what anyone's talking about and reassure each other that, no really, they're just not focussed on relationships right now and society just doesn't understand.

...

It's obviously not a nice thing to do to people, but that's why it happens.

Sometimes I feel like you're the only rational person on this site, great point and a lot less hostile than mine.

 

[AgentNein]

I could give zero fucks. I was crazy into girls when I was 14 but then I just realised "Whats the point? Why am I chasing after these shallow creatures?"
So I'll probably stay a virgin for at least another year (I have a bet with friends that I can turn 20 and still have it. The pots up to £30 now) but even then I'll be not chasing after it. Call me sad but I prefer my games, my 40k miniatures and a good laugh with mates to female company. Sure I can talk to them but if I'm not drunk then I just give them cold indifferance most of the time.

People can point how how sad or how I'm missing out all they want but my life is mine. I don't want to share it with anyone.

Honestly, with your outlook on women I'm betting on you staying a virgin for a tad bit longer than a year.

 

[Ieyke]

Dunno. I stopped expecting humans to make sense.

I'm only genuinely interested in 3 women that I've ever met, so I'm fighting pretty astronomically long odds.
I don't care about the rest, so I don't know how the hell me not sleeping with them at random is somehow a bad thing.

There's a friend of mine who's completely into me, but I'm not at all interested....soooo I'm not going to sleep with her.

Right now I'm in a terrible quandary related to this:
Girl 1: Loved her forever, pretty generally the best person I know, and now it appears I may actually have a chance with her. If I get her to go out with me, she has a tendency to have very short relationships, if the relationship lasts, she's uber busy and has very little time for anything but school and work, and she's the no sex til' marriage type. I had no doubts about asking her out until yesterday.

Girl 2: She and I have been in a very complicated flirtationship for a couple years, and we're pretty much best friends. Basically, she knew I loved her, and she told me she loved me too, BUT the problem is that she was in a relationship and therefore we had limits. Nonetheless, her boyfriend was a douche, so I didn't feel bad about undermining him.
Finally, they got engaged, so I decided that that was that and I should let her be happy.
I backed off and fought my way down to a "just friends" mindset.
Then, yesterday, she tells me her fiancé dumped her (long distance relationship since he's in the Marines).
Now....I dunno what to do.

Girl 1 would be like catching a unicorn. IF I could pull it off, it'd still be a supreme test of my patience and willpower, but the reward would be legendary. Seriously, I've loved this girl for almost a decade.
Girl 2....would be soooo effortless since we have had to fight to keep apart in the first place...but I fought so long and hard to move past her and had finally mostly succeeded...

If Girl 1 had been free so that I could ask her out in person, I would've....but between her two jobs, school, and various other obligations....I can't catch her when she has time.


I dunno..... I just can't figure what to do here. I can grind this logic in terrible circles forever.


So, you tell me - is it somehow a bad thing that I WON'T simply go for Girl 2 just because I know sex is easily within reach with her?

Is it somehow bad that that's only a secondary consideration for me?

 

[AgentNein]

Dunno. I stopped expecting humans to make sense.

I'm only genuinely interested in 3 women that I've ever met, so I'm fighting pretty astronomically long odds.
I don't care about the rest, so I don't know how the hell me not sleeping with them at random is somehow a bad thing.

There's a friend of mine who's completely into me, but I'm not at all interested....soooo I'm not going to sleep with her.

Right now I'm in a terrible quandary related to this:
Girl 1: Loved her forever, pretty generally the best person I know, and now it appears I may actually have a chance with her. If I get her to go out with me, she has a tendency to have very short relationships, if the relationship lasts, she's uber busy and has very little time for anything but school and work, and she's the no sex til' marriage type. I had no doubts about asking her out until yesterday.

Girl 2: She and I have been in a very complicated flirtationship for a couple years, and we're pretty much best friends. Basically, she knew I loved her, and she told me she loved me too, BUT the problem is that she was in a relationship and therefore we had limits. Nonetheless, her boyfriend was a douche, so I didn't feel bad about undermining him.
Finally, they got engaged, so I decided that that was that and I should let her be happy.
I backed off and fought my way down to a "just friends" mindset.
Then, yesterday, she tells me her fiancé dumped her (long distance relationship since he's in the Marines).
Now....I dunno what to do.

Girl 1 would be like catching a unicorn. IF I could pull it off, it'd still be a supreme test of my patience and willpower, but the reward would be legendary. Seriously, I've loved this girl for almost a decade.
Girl 2....would be soooo effortless since we have had to fight to keep apart in the first place...but I fought so long and hard to move past her and had finally mostly succeeded...

If Girl 1 had been free so that I could ask her out in person, I would've....but between her two jobs, school, and various other obligations....I can't catch her when she has time.


I dunno..... I just can't figure what to do here. I can grind this logic in terrible circles forever.


So, you tell me - is it somehow a bad thing that I WON'T simply go for Girl 2 just because I know sex is easily within reach with her?

Is it somehow bad that that's only a secondary consideration for me?

Jesus, I'm usually good with this Dear Abbey bullshit but this one's tough. I have no good answers for you. It really depends on what you're looking for. Good luck?

EDIT: Ooh ooh I DO have some advice. Just make sure you remember that both relationships will likely end in failure, and make sure you're okay with that happening whoever you choose to pursue.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I dunno..... I just can't figure what to do here. I can grind this logic in terrible circles forever.

So, you tell me - is it somehow a bad thing that I WON'T simply go for Girl 2 just because I know sex is easily within reach with her?

Is it somehow bad that that's only a secondary consideration for me?

Dude, only you can decide which girl you want to pursue more. How on earth can anyone else really weigh in on that? Just from reading this it sounds like you're over-idealizing Girl #1 (probably because she's "hard to get") and taking Girl #2 for granted (for similar but inverse reasons), but hey...that's a lesson we all have to learn at some point.