If you voted for Obama or you're a Muslim, you better not try to learn gun safety in Texas

[Frozen Donkey Wheel2]

Only in America...that's all the words you need.

Yeah, try only in Texas. Trust me, there is a big difference.

It's quite possible he runs a private gun club. In that case, he can refuse service on any grounds, no matter how silly.

I'm just going to assume the people saying "only in America" are rather confused about racism. The United States doesn't have a monopoly on racism or religious phobias. There's nowhere in the world that couldn't stand some more tolerance and understanding.

I will also quote this

Only in America. Its hard to believe such bigoted, ignorant people exist.

Its hard to believe such bigoted, ignorant people exist.

Only in America.

Hmmmm. Surely you must see the problem here.

and this just so more people will read them. Common sense, people. Come on.

 

[viranimus]

I am just pointing out that it is insanely hypocritical.

It really isn't, sorry......

Would you care to try for something that's a little more....I don't know...Grounded?

Ok, well I wasnt trying to argue.. I was trying to point out a difference in perspectives on matters that are in fact subjective. I wasnt defending this guy specifically. However It IS hypocritical. If you dont see how, doesnt diminish how hypocritical it is.


What is happening here is the mass is just forcing their collective opinion as if it is accepted as written in stone. Its not even as if the opinion is universally accepted or even by an overwhelming majority of people outside of this community. Let me reiterate this. The bulk of responses is imposing this "tolerant" view as if it is universally accepted. It is not because this "tolerant" view is one that is just as hate filled, short sighted, and based in ignorance as what its rallying against and if you need any proof to that fact then you need only read through the 4 pages preceding this post. Ive seen people condemn the entire US, A news organization as well as the state of Texas based off what one nutjob, Who coincidentally has every right and freedom to choose the clientele he services in a private business.

Just because you do not like or even agree with this individuals position does not by default make you more smarter, or more tolerant. All it means is you disagree with them. However assuming you are more tolerant based on little more than being in like minded company is no different than not thinking your not a racist because you reserve telling racial jokes to those who are of the same race as you.

Again, Im not looking to argue, I was looking to try to steer the convo into a more balanced direction, one not so blinded by faux enlightenment. Even this response is not meant to incite an argument, but it will in all likelihood generate the same sort of segmented response as what preceded it as if it was meant personally. Ive said what I tried to say between my original post and the corresponding replies. You can take that for what its worth, but I am not going to try to convince you because youve clearly already made up your mind on what you think is right and wrong. As far as I am concerned everyone can go back to patting each other on the back for how "enlightened" they collectively think they are and resume belting out ignorant and hate filled diatribes and one liners to prove it.

 

[Sandytimeman]

out of curiosity, if someone left the Muslim church you belong to, to become an atheist or w/e and you had a gun. What would you do, or should do, according to the Koran?

I don't agree with this guy. But religious people in general scare me when it mandates killing in their holy book. Yes this includes the old testament as well as the Koran.

 

[Something Amyss]

A federal firearms instructor shall be considered according to federal law to be a public business. Because they issues FFA(Federal Firearms) licenses, they're not private businesses, ergo the CRA does apply.

Thank you for utterly missing the point.

Especially since this is a state level certification. not exclusively, but especially.

 

[Something Amyss]

I was refering to the person quoteing you

Yes. I know that. You should know I know that, because I said you should feel free to answer "his" hypothetical.

yes the CRA apply to businesses that offers goods
a CWP in this case is no diffident than a plate of food provided you have the money and meet the states quantification(to my knowledge the state dose not require you to be white, Christian, or Republican to own a CWP).

Evidence plz.

he is offering this service to anyone walking into the store at the start time(meets the quantification of a public business space at that point and the CRA applies). He is breaking the law at that point he refuses service base on "arbitrary" believes.

Dicing a fine point, talk like that could argue almost any establishment as public.

Also, "beliefs."

again its not even a question at that point he is breaking the law

Just not necessarily for the reach you're making.

as for the hypothetical
No there will never be tolerance. However, hate someone base on there charter not for the color of there skin.

Wrong hypothetical. Try the one you shot down the first time. Context. Try it.

 

[remnant_phoenix]

Isn't that kind of thing against the law? I thought you couldn't discriminate based on religon or political views

This man was teaching out of his own store. In most (mabye all) places in America, a business owner can reserve the right to refuse service to anyone, he/she doesn't even have to give a reason.

That doesn't make this kind of discrimination any less screwed up, but based on my understanding of U.S.A./Texas law, he's done nothing wrong from a legal perspective.

 

[GundamSentinel]

The ad isn't the problem for me, you have crazy people everywhere. The problem is that he gets so many calls of support. One xenophobe, okay; more than one, not okay.

 

[Alar]

Mmm.. racism

"The fact is if you are a devout Muslim then you cannot be a true American," Keller reportedly added. "Why should I arm these people to kill me, that's suicide."

Wow, just wow

Race has nothing to do with religion, so this is just plain, good ole fashioned bigotry and discrimination.

 

[Al-Bundy-da-G]

It seems a throw back to when bars would put up signs saying "Nob blacks, no Irish, no dogs".

I wonder where in Texas? I've heard some of their small towns still have the sign up at the entrance showing blacks are not welcome.

I'm cool with black people and dogs, but absolutely no irish.

OT: There's always going to be jackasses like this in any country so long as free speech exist. It's the same thing no matter how wrong someone is they will shove their head as far up their respective asses as necessary to avoid facts.

 

[Xanadu84]

Isn't that kind of thing against the law? I thought you couldn't discriminate based on religon or political views

A private citizen just teaching people he wants to teach can discriminate against whoever he wants. Hence, we still have hate groups. Freedom and speech and all that, its not called, "Freedom of smart speech" for a reason. People have every right to be stupid, and the government can't force there way in to change your opinion on anything, even if its an opinion you really should have. The proper way to deal with this person is public shunning and mockery, but sadly, there are too many racists keeping him going.

 

[Atheist.]

Only in America...that's all the words you need.

Change that to "Only in Texas." Here in the mid-west we're at least a little more sensible. Mostly.

This is why everyone thinks Texans are racists.

In the mid-west we almost have a melting pot similar to that of New York depending on what city you're in. I know as many African American/Latin American/Middle Eastern Americans as I do European Americans in my city.

On a side note, I just don't understand racism. Just as I don't understand homophobia or sexism. People are... people. Who cares what they look like or what they do. As long as they don't wrong other people, what's the big deal?

 

[Xanadu84]

Mmm.. racism

"The fact is if you are a devout Muslim then you cannot be a true American," Keller reportedly added. "Why should I arm these people to kill me, that's suicide."

Wow, just wow

Race has nothing to do with religion, so this is just plain, good ole fashioned bigotry and discrimination.

Remember though, that at this guys level of jackassery, anyone with a race that means brown-ish skin that's not Latino will be labeled a dreaded, "Mooslim".

 

[direkiller]

I was refering to the person quoteing you

Yes. I know that. You should know I know that, because I said you should feel free to answer "his" hypothetical.

yes the CRA apply to businesses that offers goods
a CWP in this case is no diffident than a plate of food provided you have the money and meet the states quantification(to my knowledge the state dose not require you to be white, Christian, or Republican to own a CWP).

Evidence plz.

he is offering this service to anyone walking into the store at the start time(meets the quantification of a public business space at that point and the CRA applies). He is breaking the law at that point he refuses service base on "arbitrary" believes.

Dicing a fine point, talk like that could argue almost any establishment as public.

Also, "beliefs."

again its not even a question at that point he is breaking the law

Just not necessarily for the reach you're making.

as for the hypothetical
No there will never be tolerance. However, hate someone base on there charter not for the color of there skin.

Wrong hypothetical. Try the one you shot down the first time. Context. Try it.

Im not making a reach on this one sorry if you were not able to follow it
A CWP is a service provided by refusing based on outer reasons then the quantification required he is breaking the law
http://www.lifescript.com/soul/self/well-being/the_right_to_refuse_service_or_discrimination.aspx

"Businesses are primarily places of public accommodation. That means they are in business to accommodate the needs of the public. They actively invite and seek the patronage of the public and therefore are subject to the same anti-discrimination laws that protect workers seeking employment or promotion."(i.E the CRA and the Disability act)
&
http://www.legalzoom.com/us-law/equal-rights/right-refuse-service


Now can you put a little thought into your augments rather then half sentence slang and pointing out my spelling mistakes.

 

[Something Amyss]

I was trying to point out a difference in perspectives on matters that are in fact subjective.

Not inherently. With no evidence that training these people is training them to kill him, it is an ignorant opinion. Having a "different perspective" does not immunise you from being wrong, no matter what the internet has told you.

Flat Eartehrs have different opinions and perspectives. they are objectively wrong. Evidence? Look at a picture of the earth. We even have video of it now, from space.

However It IS hypocritical. If you dont see how, doesnt diminish how hypocritical it is.

Claiming something is hypocritical doesn't make it so.

See? Two can play that game.

What is happening here is the mass is just forcing their collective opinion as if it is accepted as written in stone.

Howabout as if it's written in law? Both more accurate and true.

Its not even as if the opinion is universally accepted or even by an overwhelming majority of people outside of this community. Let me reiterate this. The bulk of responses is imposing this "tolerant" view as if it is universally accepted. It is not because this "tolerant" view is one that is just as hate filled, short sighted, and based in ignorance as what its rallying against and if you need any proof to that fact then you need only read through the 4 pages preceding this post. Ive seen people condemn the entire US, A news organization as well as the state of Texas based off what one nutjob, Who coincidentally has every right and freedom to choose the clientele he services in a private business.

As long as he's not providing state safety classes or certifications, which he is.

Incidentally, most of what you said was bullshit. For example, a lot of what's got people pissed at Texas is that he's getting major support from people on this, praise for his stance.

You're dicing semantics arguing that it's not because it's hateful, it's just because it's a minority opinion. You're trying to assert your own reasoning over and above the reasoning given. That's just dishonest and rather hypocritical, when you consider you're trying to argue "different perspectives."

Just because you do not like or even agree with this individuals position does not by default make you more smarter, or more tolerant.

I've never refused anyone help based on ethnicity, political affiliation, or religion. That kind of does make me more tolerant. Also, when stating something objectively false, the description of "idiot" is considered acceptable. Even if he were a genius, I could state it.

All it means is you disagree with them.

Unless, of course, he's stating things that are objectively false.

"IT'S MUH OPINION" Doesn't excuse falsehoods.

However assuming you are more tolerant based on little more than being in like minded company

Strawman. nobody's saying that. Stop distorting things to make an argument easier to defeat.

Again, Im not looking to argue,

Good, because you lack the fundamental skills for it.

I was looking to try to steer the convo into a more balanced direction,

Only in the Fox news sense of "balanced." If you can't present an actual argument that serves as a counterbalance, all you're doing is making shit up for the sake of PRETENSE of balance. And that's really every bit as bad as the alternative you claim to be going against.

Even this response is not meant to incite an argument, but it will in all likelihood generate the same sort of segmented response as what preceded it as if it was meant personally.

only if you falsely infer that this response is personal. I can argue your points, say you're wrong, and not be personally affected. Given your response, though, it's safe to assume you will treat this as something other than what it is, because your only points are steeped in such dishonesty.

Ive said what I tried to say between my original post and the corresponding replies. You can take that for what its worth, but I am not going to try to convince you because youve clearly already made up your mind on what you think is right and wrong.

Most people have. You are no more open minded. THAT was hypocrisy, dude.

As far as I am concerned everyone can go back to patting each other on the back for how "enlightened" they collectively think they are and resume belting out ignorant and hate filled diatribes and one liners to prove it.

Serious question: If you're not out to "argue," which you seem to use more in the sense of "say inciting things," why do you keep dishonestly portraying people this way? That's a pretty inflammatory statement for someone who doesn't want to argue and doesn't mean anything personal.

 

[Eggsnham]

Sometimes I hate my country...

 

[Kiju]

The guy doing that campaign said it himself: "God bless America."

Every time I hear that sentence, my personal opinion of that person goes down a few pegs. I'd comment further, but everything else I type on this subject comes off as irrelevant and/or heavily bigoted.

So, I'll just leave it at this: The OC's post and link doesn't necessarily surprise me. I've known plenty of people who are like that, and I've even had to deal with them now and then when I was in Highschool. Refusing to say the Pledge of Allegiance simply because I didn't believe in our country anymore got me sent to detention and the Principal more times than I care to count. The parent-teacher conferences were always the best, though.

I've noticed that college doesn't have me saying it every bloody day, so I'm actually pretty proud of that. Then again, it's a place of higher learning.


Also, I'll bet the reason why that guy is so mad at Muslims is because he bought a Palestinian Alarm Clock, like this one:

 

[Something Amyss]

http://www.lifescript.com/soul/self/well-being/the_right_to_refuse_service_or_discrimination.aspx

Yes, Lifescript is a valid legal source. LOL

By the way, I know you just dodged 80% of what I said, but if I was going to correct your spelling, I would have chose more than the one word. You made a ton of mistakes, which made your already-poor argument rather tiresome to read.

Since you didn't really respond to most of what I said, I'll assume you're not interested in continued conversation and leave you at that. It was SO much more important to take a shot at me for correcting your spelling in a particular point.

 

[direkiller]

http://www.lifescript.com/soul/self/well-being/the_right_to_refuse_service_or_discrimination.aspx

Yes, Lifescript is a valid legal source. LOL

By the way, I know you just dodged 80% of what I said, but if I was going to correct your spelling, I would have chose more than the one word. You made a ton of mistakes, which made your already-poor argument rather tiresome to read.

Since you didn't really respond to most of what I said, I'll assume you're not interested in continued conversation and leave you at that. It was SO much more important to take a shot at me for correcting your spelling in a particular point.

Just because its life script doesn't make the fact they quote the law and give the related court cases any less weight
Wait your calling my argument a straw man?
You have yet to refute one point or quote one law that gives the man the right to refuse service based on the race,religion,or political holding of the patron.

 

[n00beffect]

I am not surprised, to be honest, it's bloody fucking Texas, for goodness' sake! What did you expect? This is arguably the worst state in America, in terms of IQ. People there are just mentally handicapped, and there's a desease that forces them to live as if they're still in the 18th century. Don't bother.

So, I guess this is what they mean by "british irony."

You live in the UK, and are pretty young. You post on this thread with a sort of manufactured indignation that, when condensed, basically amounts to you saying "Texas sucks." You have said nothing of substance, yet, look down upon a large part of this country with a poorly-manufactured sense of superiority. TL;DR, someone who is dumb and ignorant calling people dumb and ignorant.

You could have easily helped your case by doing just a few seconds worth of google searching, so that you'd have a chance at convincing us Americans that you might actually know something about the world. Yet, you did not.

Evildoers like you cannot hide from me. I will fight ignorant arrogance wherever it rears its ugly head. *pose + theme music*

You know what the really ironic thing is? That you did the exact same, as you claim that I did. "You suck/are ignorant for saying Texas sucks". Your point is what, mr dramatic? That "I don't live in Texas, therefore I have no saying"? That is pathetic! And if you looked a bit closer, you might have seen my OTHER comment, in reply to another one-celled organism, that infact my animosity towards Texas stems from its somewhat-recent decision to replace their textbooks with bibles (oops! exaggeration much? Not a pinch!). Here's some google-ing for ya', cowboy: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/13/education/13texas.html