I'm a vegan and I come in peace...
- Thread starter Cadmium Magenta
- Start date
I'm a vegan and I have a few things to say:
1. My favourite food is Korean barbecue.
2. There's nothing wrong with eating meat.
3. Eating meat is a great way to lead to a healthy diet.
4. I would never force eating meat onto someone else.
5. I'm vegan because every so often, this happens ...
1. My favourite food is Korean barbecue.
2. There's nothing wrong with eating meat.
3. Eating meat is a great way to lead to a healthy diet.
4. I would never force eating meat onto someone else.
5. I'm vegan because every so often, this happens ...
The biggest flaw in advertising and/or promoting veganism and vegetarianism is focusing only on animal rights. People separate animal and human welfare as if they are two different things; they are not. The welfare of animals and good care for livestock is essential for our own safety and health. I'm sure everyone would agree that cows bred on farms with fresh air and 'normal' life are healthier to eat than those stuck in cages, suffering from diseases and pissing themselves. And the biggest problem of meat industry is the fact that it is an industry; meaning, it requires slaughterhouses because otherwise, it couldn't fill the demand. And the reason for such demand is ... well, we're humans. We love to exaggerate when we have the opportunity to do so. And exaggeration is the problem. Despite having a natural capability to eat and digest meat, we were never intended to eat it three times a day, seven days a week. We do it because we can, not because it is necessary (or healthy). I honestly have no problem in people loving to eat meat; that's perfectly normal. However, eating too much of it heavily damages our own health and the planet along with us. That should be the main concern, not focusing on animals and thinking people will suddenly start caring about pigs. They won't, because pig welfare is not the most important thing that gets screwed up in the meat industry (nor is it the most important problem of the modern world).
I don't eat meat, by the way, and I'll just note that I absolutely despise these labels (vegetarian, vegan, whatever). It brings so many stereotypes that I try to avoid using the V-word because people immediately assume I'm some sort of a animal rights activist whose only reason for not eating meat is my love for animals. I won't lie; ethical reason are present in my decision, but they are not the first or the main ones. Also, I am not against eating meat; as I said, that's normal. What I think it's not really normal (or good for anyone) is exaggerating, and the (western) world exaggerates.
Humans were vegetarian in majority throughout history; it is only recently, with the beginning of industrialization that we switched to meat-heavy diet (and that's counting just the western world. Also, the only time when 'we' ate so much meat was when 'we' were Neanderthals). But still to this day, healthiest people are the ones who eat little amounts of meat. I believe that's what we should strive for. When animal rights activists fight against eating meat and believe that humanity will one day completely stop eating all kinds of meat, they are not really being realistic. People will always eat meat. What we can do is make sure that we eat it moderately, which will in turn improve the quality and safety of it, and while we're at it, there will certainly be some sort of artificial meat industry one day (when it gets better, you won't even know the difference). And even then, some people will not eat meat anyway. I don't think all people are the same or have the same needs. Some people need meat, but I am extremely sceptical at the fact that people need that much of it. That's just exaggerating because you can. And well, it's not my problem anyway, but it would be foolish to deny the fact that exaggerating is harmful. You can not care about it, but you can't, with a straight face, say that it's not harmful (to humans, animals and Earth). So yeah, essentially, my opinion is; eat what you like, don't be an asshole about it and do try not to consume in one meal more than some people could survive from for a week.
I don't eat meat, by the way, and I'll just note that I absolutely despise these labels (vegetarian, vegan, whatever). It brings so many stereotypes that I try to avoid using the V-word because people immediately assume I'm some sort of a animal rights activist whose only reason for not eating meat is my love for animals. I won't lie; ethical reason are present in my decision, but they are not the first or the main ones. Also, I am not against eating meat; as I said, that's normal. What I think it's not really normal (or good for anyone) is exaggerating, and the (western) world exaggerates.
Humans were vegetarian in majority throughout history; it is only recently, with the beginning of industrialization that we switched to meat-heavy diet (and that's counting just the western world. Also, the only time when 'we' ate so much meat was when 'we' were Neanderthals). But still to this day, healthiest people are the ones who eat little amounts of meat. I believe that's what we should strive for. When animal rights activists fight against eating meat and believe that humanity will one day completely stop eating all kinds of meat, they are not really being realistic. People will always eat meat. What we can do is make sure that we eat it moderately, which will in turn improve the quality and safety of it, and while we're at it, there will certainly be some sort of artificial meat industry one day (when it gets better, you won't even know the difference). And even then, some people will not eat meat anyway. I don't think all people are the same or have the same needs. Some people need meat, but I am extremely sceptical at the fact that people need that much of it. That's just exaggerating because you can. And well, it's not my problem anyway, but it would be foolish to deny the fact that exaggerating is harmful. You can not care about it, but you can't, with a straight face, say that it's not harmful (to humans, animals and Earth). So yeah, essentially, my opinion is; eat what you like, don't be an asshole about it and do try not to consume in one meal more than some people could survive from for a week.
I blame our language. You're missing the point of having lunch & dinner, if you disassemble it into "eating" or downright "feeding". You're doing it for the taste (and the lulz), not just to assume nutrients.
Then it's up to you, to... digest the necessary violence that it takes to kill anything (even a plant) that gets served for your meal.
Then it's up to you, to... digest the necessary violence that it takes to kill anything (even a plant) that gets served for your meal.
Sorry to correct you but under my current understanding of nutrition, there aren't anythings that vegans need from meat. The most commonly lacking parts of a vegan's diet are calcium, vitamin B12, iron and protein, all of which can be easily found in everyday fruits and vegetables.Fudj said:
Ah, well the second part of your post confused me then.SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
I'm just tired of seeing the argument that X disturbs the natural order. There is no order dammit!
My mistake, I see what your saying now.
That's asinine. You do realize that cattle or any meat animal consumes a ton of vegetation to produce a few steaks? Your arable farming land claim is totally bogus. For one, US destroys crops every year that could feed millions upon millions. Why? To keep prices up. (most western countries do the same, but US is the biggest food destroyer)FrostyChick said:
i have a rule when it comes to meat:
i won't eat it if it could beat me at chess and while this does let me eat all my family except my grandpa it means if pigs ever get smart i will leave them alone.
my stance on veganism is the same as on religion: treat it like your dick, don't wave it around in public and don't shove it down my throat unless you can assume i might like that.
i won't eat it if it could beat me at chess and while this does let me eat all my family except my grandpa it means if pigs ever get smart i will leave them alone.
my stance on veganism is the same as on religion: treat it like your dick, don't wave it around in public and don't shove it down my throat unless you can assume i might like that.
Who told you that "we don't need to eat meat, we only eat it because we want to?" Is that why life long vegans take protein supplements instead of eating a bag of nuts a days, when we get protein through meat?
And what about the fact that living on a vegan diet puts you in great risk of osteoporosis while you are in your 30, a sickness that normally affects elderly people, when a "normal" diet including meat dose not carry even slightly the same risk? Or the fact that many not only Vegan, but vegetarians as well have to take chalk in pillform, because they don't like to drink milk?
Your argument is pure bullshit, our stomachs are designed to eat and digest meat, our teeth are as well, and our body depends on vitamins and proteins that are mostly present in animal product. Saying that we "kill beause we want eat, only because we want it and not because we need it" is wrong in every scientific way.
Eating meat is not something we do only because we want to, but because to be healthy you need what meat has to offer.
OT: I'm all for animal rights, but rights within reason!
And what about the fact that living on a vegan diet puts you in great risk of osteoporosis while you are in your 30, a sickness that normally affects elderly people, when a "normal" diet including meat dose not carry even slightly the same risk? Or the fact that many not only Vegan, but vegetarians as well have to take chalk in pillform, because they don't like to drink milk?
Your argument is pure bullshit, our stomachs are designed to eat and digest meat, our teeth are as well, and our body depends on vitamins and proteins that are mostly present in animal product. Saying that we "kill beause we want eat, only because we want it and not because we need it" is wrong in every scientific way.
Eating meat is not something we do only because we want to, but because to be healthy you need what meat has to offer.
OT: I'm all for animal rights, but rights within reason!
Another bogus claim. Humans were hunter/gatherers. In fact, the concept of farming is only ~10-20 thousand years old. Sure we ate berries and such for hundred thousand years, but we also ate rabbits, deer, mammoths, etc. Cavemen did not eat wheat or corn or such in big amounts.Beliyal said:
Thats why i said "i believe" wasnt 100% on details and i havent been awake long enough to go look for the exact info, that being said i "believe" that a diet soley one or the other isnt whats best for the body either, never be sorry to correct someone, you told me somthing today that i didnt know thus expanding my understanding of the subject to paraphrase "i learnt something todayFanta Grape said:
There are animals living inside every plant, so even when you eat tofu you are eating a lot of animals. The difference between vegans and us normal people is that we don't have a problem with it. There's also no reason you can't support animal rights and still eat meat. Treating living animals with care and respect is not the same as not eating dead animals. My dad is a farmer and he's been keeping cows. They have got plenty of food and they get to spend the summers outside (not having them outside in the summer is illegal) so they live a comfortable life without the dangers and instability a deer has to endure. Also being omnivore means we should combine vegetables and meat for the digestive system to be properly stimulated
human beings are violent bu nature?!?!? that's the most untrue statement i've ever heard :| it's in the nature of human beings to REASON. we can use REASON to determine whether we should or should not be violent. our nature is one of being able to LEARN. OH! there are people that use our weakness of listening to all the crap they have to feed us and believing in it? That's totally different. A human kept in a hostile environment will become hostile to the environment. And that's where the big trick comes in. We're led to believe our natural environment is the city. But our natural environment is the EARTH, innit? We're taught to confuse the Earth for this heap of nonsense we're living in thus we become violent towards the Earth.thahat said:
Whatever guilt I can muster for eating meat is immediately crushed by the convenience of it. Going vegan or even vegetarian would mean a dramatic lifestyle change: more expensive food, more planning to make up for the loss of protein, less options when eating out, awkward conversations with friends and acquaintances about my choice, less variety in my diet, and other vegans assuming I'm one of them and preaching to me about their stupid modern-hippie bullshit.
I don't want my eating to become a chore, I just want to eat. Yes, I'm not a vegan because of laziness, but you know what? I'm also lazy enough to not feel like coming up with a better excuse for you, so deal with it or shut up. Not you, TC. You are a nice, open-minded person. That's just my reasoning against the stereotypical vegan superiority complex.
I don't believe that "top of the foodchain, animals are too dumb to care, we're omnivores so why not eat meat" stuff either. Not because it's false (in fact it's all quite true), but because in terms of an actual debate it's just a bunch of bad, meaningless arguments. None of those reasons are any real reason for eating meat, they're just excuses because you don't want to admit that yes, animals do suffer for your diet but you just don't care enough to change it.
I don't want my eating to become a chore, I just want to eat. Yes, I'm not a vegan because of laziness, but you know what? I'm also lazy enough to not feel like coming up with a better excuse for you, so deal with it or shut up. Not you, TC. You are a nice, open-minded person. That's just my reasoning against the stereotypical vegan superiority complex.
I don't believe that "top of the foodchain, animals are too dumb to care, we're omnivores so why not eat meat" stuff either. Not because it's false (in fact it's all quite true), but because in terms of an actual debate it's just a bunch of bad, meaningless arguments. None of those reasons are any real reason for eating meat, they're just excuses because you don't want to admit that yes, animals do suffer for your diet but you just don't care enough to change it.
I'm an omnivore who occasionally actually kills his own meat. My attitude toward a vegan lifestyle is one of scrutiny. Most vegans I know are actually overweight and unhealthy from constantly eating wheat-and-soy based "meat substitutes" (or just plain wheat products... I swear, most of 'em consume 60% wheat, 35% soy, and 5% various spices). I tell 'em to consume more coconut, more cashews, more avocado, more nuts and drupes in general... but they've gotta have their damned mass-market tofurky crap.
Not that there's anything wrong with tofu in moderation, protein is good... but we need fats (ironically in order to prevent ourselves from becoming fatter), and the way to get 'em without animal products tends to come in the form of nuts, seeds, or somewhat exotic drupes.
That said, I take no moral issue with anyone who doesn't judge me for culling a few particularly slow Cervidae for grilling and dog food. I daresay I'm more humane with my takedowns than a pack of wolves would be.
Also, I tend to agree with most vegans regarding the treatment of meat livestock and the sheer quantity of meat we slaughter here in the US. While there's nothing wrong with meat in your diet, there's something downright unhealthy about the meat-based diet many Americans have... there's also something wrong with the processed grain-based diet most of the rest have. Don't believe that food pyramid, kids... it should have fruits and veggies on bottom, meat and dairy one up, grains just above that. They did put sugary snacks in the right place, at least.
Not that there's anything wrong with tofu in moderation, protein is good... but we need fats (ironically in order to prevent ourselves from becoming fatter), and the way to get 'em without animal products tends to come in the form of nuts, seeds, or somewhat exotic drupes.
That said, I take no moral issue with anyone who doesn't judge me for culling a few particularly slow Cervidae for grilling and dog food. I daresay I'm more humane with my takedowns than a pack of wolves would be.
Also, I tend to agree with most vegans regarding the treatment of meat livestock and the sheer quantity of meat we slaughter here in the US. While there's nothing wrong with meat in your diet, there's something downright unhealthy about the meat-based diet many Americans have... there's also something wrong with the processed grain-based diet most of the rest have. Don't believe that food pyramid, kids... it should have fruits and veggies on bottom, meat and dairy one up, grains just above that. They did put sugary snacks in the right place, at least.
Good news! 'In-Vitro' meat is coming along in leaps and bounds. Basically it is animal-less meat, meat that has never known consciousness or pain. At this stage they're developing it to contain more nutrients and by extension flavour. I sincerely hope that this helps the whole 'meat is murder vs. damn this steak is good!' debate abate.Cadmium Magenta said:
I personally am committed to being an omnivore because meat is nutritious (prepared correctly) and delicious. I'm also realistic about where my meat comes from and in my opinion (based on what I have seen at a meat-works), the slaughtering methods used are a lot more humane that being eaten in the wild.
Meat is delicious, that includes veal. I have absolutely no regrets nor 'sadness' at the fact that I eat meat. Tonight I had a roast, it was delicious.
We made those animals, tinkered with them, bred them, they're products designed for our consumption. Heck, if I knew how, I'd go out and kill a deer, gut it, clean it, and eat it. Sadly I'm not trained in how to properly hunt nor clean a deer.
And yes, I think my appetite for delicious meat is more important than that animal's life. Maybe I just have a big ego, but I like to think of myself as more important than a stupid, manufactured cow.
I have vegetarian friends, I don't argue with them, they eat their thing and I eat mine. It's all good at the dinner table.
We made those animals, tinkered with them, bred them, they're products designed for our consumption. Heck, if I knew how, I'd go out and kill a deer, gut it, clean it, and eat it. Sadly I'm not trained in how to properly hunt nor clean a deer.
And yes, I think my appetite for delicious meat is more important than that animal's life. Maybe I just have a big ego, but I like to think of myself as more important than a stupid, manufactured cow.
I have vegetarian friends, I don't argue with them, they eat their thing and I eat mine. It's all good at the dinner table.