In Defense of Hepler Mode

[veloper]

Can anyone release the most awesome story based game in the world though? Planescape Torment after 12+ years still holds the #1 place in these para-olympics of storytelling.
Maybe if storytelling in games much improved I can see a couple hours of just cutscenes and dialogues being worth my time.

Well, the Bioware writers seem to think they can, so let them try. Maybe the response of the gaming community will be amusing to watch atleast.

You know, The Brothers Karamazov is a really, really good book. It was first published in the 1880s. It's okay if something which is an older piece of storytelling holds the crown as one of the greatest - in fact it's one of the marks of a mature medium.

The best RPGs - like Planescape: Torment, which I've played through a couple of times myself - have so much more than combat and cut scenes. Dialogue, branching choices, puzzles, non-combat actions dependent on character stats (e.g. opening the bronze sphere, understanding the unbroken circle of Zerthimon). Cut all the combat from Planescape: Torment and you'd still have a hell of a lot of gameplay.

If anything, Planescape: Torment is a bad example to bring up in making this point; it's one of the RPGs with the least combat I've ever played, and the combat there is is not very good. (At least, not compared to other isometric D&D games like Icewind Dale or Temple of Elemental Evil.)

I think that Bioware have a long way to go before they reach PsT levels.
Should they ever get there, then I can see them getting away with making an interactive fiction with very weak combat, that is also entirely optional, but not before.

 

[Squidbulb]

There are a few situations where this could be useful.
Firstly, imagine a video-game reviewer who has a big game to review but is running out of time and is only about halfway through (maybe they got distracted by sidequests or something). They've played enough of the gameplay to do a good review of it, but they need to see the rest of the story to finish their review. Maybe it's Mass Effect 3 and they want to see what the ending is like. It could really help in this situation.
Or maybe you're stuck on the final boss and just want to see the ending because you loved the story that much. Well, just skip the fight, watch the ending and try it again later. You could also skip any parts of the game you just don't like. Maybe you hate vehicle sections. Maybe there's a certain part of the game you loved and you want to try it again (seriously, more games need a level select option.)
As an example, I was playing Portal yesterday and was kind of getting bored going through all the maintenance rooms before the final boss. I would've loved to do them later, but I had already played for hours and the final test chamber left me excited for the final boss. After all those rooms the excitement kind of wore off and I just wanted to finish the game.

 

[Eamar]

I disagree entirely, Shamus.

Giving lazy developers an excuse not to develop content in order to appeal to a small few is obviously a slippery slope.

I mean, look what happened when we introduced subtitles into games. Developers just stopped adding sound to games. Now every game is silent, and that sucks.

How about when developers introduced difficulty options like "hard mode" to games? Now every game is impossible. Where does it end, Shamus? Where? Tell me Shamus. Where? Where?

+1, thanks for the laugh


Back to the argument: as is so often the case on the internet, this really feels like banging my head against a brick wall. How do so few people get that combat is not the only form of gameplay, and that in some games (SOME, not all, no-one's saying this mode would be appropriate for every game)skipping combat =/= skipping all gameplay? Using Bioware games as an example, since these are the most relevant to Hepler's particular argument, I (and many others) found the conversations to be the most enjoyable part of the GAMEPLAY. The games are not made up entirely of combat and cutscenes. Of course, most of the posts that've pointed this out have been ignored.

I actually enjoyed the combat in both Mass Effect and Dragon Age, but the "talky bits" (interactive talky bits, not the cutscenes) were the bits I looked forward to most. Much as I had fun with the combat, I really anticipated the conversations to the extent that sometimes I was impatient to get the combat AND the cutscenes out of way so I could talk to my squadmates. There were times when I was a little disappointed when I'd played Mass Effect for as much time as I had available (say an hour or two) and hadn't encountered a sizeable "talky bit. I'd enjoyed the combat and cutscenes, and all three elements were great in my opinion, but I had a favourite. What's wrong with me wanting to prioritise those, especially if I only have limited time to play games?

Also, why are people assuming that just because someone might want to skip SOME combat (or conversations, or driving sections, or any other type of gameplay) they'd want to skip all gameplay? There's a difference between skipping a couple of fights because you don't have much time and exclusively watching the cutscenes.

And hell, even if someone does choose to skip straight to the cutscenes, why do you care? Personally I'd be jealous that they had enough money to burn that they could afford to pay £30-40 for what would effectively be a very short, disjointed movie, but hey, their loss.

 

[Nimcha]

Reddit cab indeed be awful, but this place isn't much better. Maybe a little more eloquent and elitist.

 

[Something Amyss]

LA noire's wretched boring combat n chases are skippable, becuz its just shite. i honestly dont get why it was put in in the first place, or why it wasnt improved.

Uhhh..I never said that, dude.

 

[Gerishnakov]

Snip

I entirely agree. I'm not saying I'd use the Hepler option a lot but...

Spoiler: Mass Effect 3 almost ending spoilers

that final battle before the non combat ending segment of ME3 almost had me tearing my hair out. There's a bit where you have to take on (I think) four or five Brutes at once, which was almost game-breakingly hard, I mean both of my squadmates were dying as fast as I could revive them. I might have just skipped that bit.

 

[Kenjitsuka]

Why are you so concerned with how other people play games?

I'm more concerned about how they will DESIGN the games if this will become acceptable... If people start making games where the gameplay is skippable inevitably it will result in an inclination to pour less energy into making it perfect. "This section of the game is too dull/easy/repetitive/hard/unbalanced!" says Developer #1. Dev #2: "Care! They'll just skip it when they get frustrated, so let's just kick it out of the door before the boss yells at us for going over time/budget.".

Example: That Alone in the Dark game for XBOX 360. If you haven't played it, see the ZP review for the bottom line...

 

[Timmibal]

Snip

I entirely agree. I'm not saying I'd use the Hepler option a lot but...

Spoiler: Mass Effect 3 almost ending spoilers

that final battle before the non combat ending segment of ME3 almost had me tearing my hair out. There's a bit where you have to take on (I think) four or five Brutes at once, which was almost game-breakingly hard, I mean both of my squadmates were dying as fast as I could revive them. I might have just skipped that bit.

But how much did you feel like a badass when you finally accomplished it?

 

[Eamar]

Snip

I entirely agree. I'm not saying I'd use the Hepler option a lot but...

Spoiler: Mass Effect 3 almost ending spoilers

that final battle before the non combat ending segment of ME3 almost had me tearing my hair out. There's a bit where you have to take on (I think) four or five Brutes at once, which was almost game-breakingly hard, I mean both of my squadmates were dying as fast as I could revive them. I might have just skipped that bit.

Oh man, that bit... there was one point where I died right near the end and thought for a few horrible moments that I'd have to do the whole thing again. Thankfully, I'd *just* got to the autosave point, but if I hadn't I don't think I would have bothered again.

 

[Gerishnakov]

But how much did you feel like a badass when you finally accomplished it?

I was far too frustrated, and confused by how easy the next bit was, for that!

Oh man, that bit... there was one point where I died right near the end and thought for a few horrible moments that I'd have to do the whole thing again. Thankfully, I'd *just* got to the autosave point, but if I hadn't I don't think I would have bothered again.

Oh Jesus yes the autosaves during that whole sequence are awful! Prior to the Brutes I'd had to redo that 'wave defence' section a silly number of times.

 

[FredTheUndead]

Dragon Age 2 is my favorite game of all time, a flawless piece of literature that stands head and shoulders above all human history

Man, it must be rough being you.

 

[Mike Richards]

What's the problem with trying? How will a game that experiments with a new structure be as cataclysmic as everyone seems to think it'd be. Does the existence of Dear Esther, a game with essentially no direct input from the player other then walking, somehow destroy Gears of War? Did the simplified leveling in Mass Effect prevent Wasteland 2 from entering development?

The "gameplay" part of Dear Esther was walking around, there's also different genres one might happen to like very much like Adventures or Puzzle games or whatever that don't involve any kind of combat.
The thing described here isn't "a new structure" or "experiment", it just sounds like a stupid idea mixed with lazy design... Dear Esther might not be everyones cup of tea and not everyone might enjoy it, but what is proposed here is skipping entire sections to where talking happens because "walking around is boring"... it's part of the experience. Or wanting a way to remove all Puzzle/Problem solving from Adventure games or the likes of Spacechem etc.
Games are casualized and "dumbed down" enough as it is, do people really want to remove the last glimmer of "game" from them to reach an even more casual/"wider audience" that doesn't even like games?... God I'm really thankful for Kickstarter as developers using it wouldn't even have to consider such a borderline retarded idea...

Except the point I was trying to make is that one game or even a few games won't make ALL games do this. It wouldn't be everywhere, and most importantly by it's very nature it wouldn't force you to use it even when it was included. It's just about giving people options. How would a game including this feature effect you if you never once used it? Forza 4 has a rewind button that you can use at any time during a race with no cost or penalties, some people think that's cheating and some don't. If you don't like it, you don't use it. LA Noire even had this system already, letting you skip action sequences if you failed them enough times, and hardly anyone noticed.

Even then, unofficial Helper Modes have existed for a very long time. While god mode doesn't skip over content it does remove any and all challenge from a fight, so that it can be passed quickly and the player can get on with the rest of the game. When I was playing AC2 and Brotherhood I looked up the solutions for pretty much every Truth puzzle, because I wasn't finding them for the puzzles, I just wanted to know what the that element of the story was. I do that all the time, look up guides or turn the difficulty down or even 'cheat', as soon as I feel that I'm not enjoying myself as much as I could.

Games are beyond anything else about fun. Fun with a good story, fun with challenging gameplay, whatever. Not everyone has the same kind of fun with the same things. If some people have more fun with a more 'casual' experience (Which I don't believe is the right term, as simpler gameplay doesn't mean they are less involved in the experience), they should be allowed to have that fun. And if a game is capable of being lots of different kinds of fun to lots of different kinds of people, why shouldn't it?

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

However, for, say, Bioware games (or RPG's in general), they could just give us a way to skip combat through dialog. Like, say, you get ambushed, leader starts gloating, you use your super-awesome speech skills to persuade him/her to back off.

Good (read: old (sadly)) RPGs allow that sort of thing. I've gone through a few games without actually engaging in combat and spending all my resources on Speech and Charisma (and lockpicking to steal everything, lol). KotOR I & II have some of it, yeah, but not much.

Problem is most gamers nowadays are so hyped on guns and explosions--have such a short attention span and no imagination at all, that having to actually read or listen to complex dialog and wade into character background and growth, is something so few people would want and thus no developer will try. Remember when a character was actually alive? When you could grow to understand them and talk to them? Good times. Lately we are just given a stereotype and told everything we need to know. Rather than learn a character's motivations through subtle conversation and behavior, we get "missions" to go do some silly shite and the game spells it out for you in painful exposition. Robot voice: *He had a bad life. Now he is trying to start over. Feel bad for him.*

Options to end combat before it begins, as rare as they are now, boil down to: Be a Dick and Kill Him, Be Neutral and End Fighting Him, Be a Pussy and Don't Kill Him. Don't you just love all the beautiful depth? "No. (Kill Him)" Writing at its finest.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

words

You should probably just stop. You're acting fairly rudely and making yourself look like a ginormous ass by continually going on and on with this. People gave out her home address and phone number--she was stalked and harassed in her own house by retarded internet an-heroes who took it upon themselves to visit her and abuse her. I don't care if you "lost all sympathy for her," just stop. You're not proving any points, you're not contributing to the discussion of the article and you're being childish.

 

[FredTheUndead]

words

You should probably just stop. You're acting fairly rudely and making yourself look like a ginormous ass by continually going on and on with this. People gave out her home address and phone number--she was stalked and harassed in her own house by retarded internet an-heroes who took it upon themselves to visit her and abuse her. I don't care if you "lost all sympathy for her," just stop. You're not proving any points, you're not contributing to the discussion of the article and you're being childish.

You can stop pretending that anyone here justifying that particular behavior anytime you like.

 

[mfeff]

Just gunna leave this little guy right here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QLz0CqtMVc&list=UUyjLGp8hQObJMm4lSQccjFw&index=6&feature=plcp

Enjoy.

Story in a game is like a story in a porn movie. It's expected to be there, but it's not that important. -John Carmack

 

[FredTheUndead]

Just gunna leave this little guy right here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QLz0CqtMVc&list=UUyjLGp8hQObJMm4lSQccjFw&index=6&feature=plcp

Enjoy.

Story in a game is like a story in a porn movie. It's expected to be there, but it's not that important. -John Carmack

This is a fantastic video.

 

[secretsantaone]

words

You should probably just stop. You're acting fairly rudely and making yourself look like a ginormous ass by continually going on and on with this. People gave out her home address and phone number--she was stalked and harassed in her own house by retarded internet an-heroes who took it upon themselves to visit her and abuse her. I don't care if you "lost all sympathy for her," just stop. You're not proving any points, you're not contributing to the discussion of the article and you're being childish.

Holy moly, do you want to borrow a step-ladder so you can get down off your high horse there?

I am actually going to stop responding to the other guy, not because of any of the points you made, but because at this point we're delving into subjectivity and all I would be doing is repeating myself.

Apart from the dig at you at the start of this comment, I don't think I've acted particularly rudely, feel free to quote me on anything though.

Speaking of which:

I'm not defending the people who used ad-hominem attacks on her.

Plus, I've done nothing but make points, backed up with context and evidence.

Just because I'm saying something you don't agree with doesn't make my points invalid.