The Ubermensch said:
Arakasi said:
I am yet to read 1984, but that sounds incredibly sensationalist.
Two things you have to understand about Orwell, one, he's was a communist until Stalin went bonkers, two he saw the same warning signs in western culture. That was the point of 1984.
Aha. Well that should certainly be a challenging read for one of my mindset. Though I my understanding was that it was primarily anti-authoritarianist and not necessarily communist.
The Ubermensch said:
We never did talk about Blade Runner but I think this is sort of important for you to understand why I feel this way. Thankfully there's a guy on You Tube that thinks almost exactly the way I do
You should know that there is a reason beyond mere general critisism behind why I don't like Blade Runner and Gattaca: I was forced to study them in school. That'll ruin the best of movies. Although there was one technique I liked in Blade Runner, and that was the one where all the replicants in the film had their eyes flash, and in one scene, for a split second Harrison Ford's eyes flashed. And I do like the setting, it was basically ripped off by my favorite childhood games: Perfect Dark. I'll watch your video and respond should I find anything interesting to discuss about it.
The Ubermensch said:
Perhaps I've just grown up with cyberpunk in my face and have been indoctrinated to think this way, but perhaps these are valid questions everyone should ask themselves.
I'm 19, if that gives you any indication of what I've grown up with. As far as I'm concerned, it's primarily Pokemon.
The Ubermensch said:
I was talking about initial testing. It should only become commercialised when it is safe. Also, I am not an objectivist. I don't believe in free will and also think that Ayn Rand puts far too much faith in the mental capacity of the average human, without a good education anyway.
How can you not believe in Free Will? A MAN CHOOSES, A SLAVE OBEYS
I agree, that doesn't however mean there is free will. I have argued this a trillion times on these forums and unless you're particularly interesting in understanding why there is no free will (I word it this way becase it is
not an opinion it is fact, just one few think about and subscribe to).
The Ubermensch said:
It would only be as expensive as the market determines. You've got to strike the right balance between the highest price possible for the most customers possible. So it really couldn't be that expensive unless it were entirely done by small firms who catered entirely to the richest.
... You see a problem with that I hope...
It all depends on the cost to the companies that can perform it. Admittedly it could be problematic were it only for the rich, creating a class divide and a genetic divide in one, however the GM rich could easily donate sperm to make shitloads of money on GM sperm and equalise the inequality.
The Ubermensch said:
Well, I'd ideally prefer cybernetics or some equivalent, but I don't think it can solve a lot of the problems that genetic modification could.
The only thing it couldn't solve is brain related issues, and even then we don't know for certain.
The brain is just a machine; a highly complex biological computer. So theoretically it is possible, but I think using cybernetics to fix it is kind of like trying to stickytape an egg back together.
The Ubermensch said:
When it comes to waste and damaging the environment and such, I have given a lot of thought about it. The objectivist would say that the only environment the industrialist has the right to damage is the one that the industrialist paid for, so if you want to pollute a river or an ocean you'd better bloody well own it (and ensure it can't escape your property) otherwise you're going to be in a shitload of trouble.
... How the fuck, no just think about this for a second, how the fuck can you "Own land".
No just think about it for a second, who initially has the rights too it? Who has the rights to sell it? If the answer is the government then how did they acquire it? Because if the government owns it now they acquired it via murder.
You can't like... Own things, man.
I kid, but this is something I've been thinking about. I suppose you own land by trading with the person who originally owned it, and if it isn't owned, I guess it could be claimed (within some sort of reason I haven't thought of) or perhaps the government
does own it by default of being able to defend it then it sells it to the people as a contract that the government will defend that area of land, considered part of x country. I'd like to hear Rand's view on this, but I haven't heard of it as of yet.
The Ubermensch said:
I think you can lease land, I think you can operate it for a long time, I think you can
Cut off mid-sentence?
The Ubermensch said:
As for the workers, they are selling a skill, and ideally (I have no idea how this would work in reality) There would be a marketplace for jobs, and the most skilled workers would prefer the safer environments; encouraging employers to make their workplace safer. Of course, there would still be a place for suing the pants off your employer for making you operate an unsafe machine (provided you weren't told it would be unsafe).
This is pretty much what happens at the moment and its not working. You have thousands of illegals killed every year by machinery, doing unskilled work. Because they do this, and I want to point out that I'm not against illegals, I'm against the system that they are exploited in, the value of labour is determined only by the employer.
See, a wise person would tell you that it was an inequality to begin with that caused the problem, the concept of 'illegals' not the system of capitalism.
The Ubermensch said:
You mention skill, skill is given by education. Who owns the lobby groups that petition the state and federal governments for lower taxes? what do taxes pay for? Why do middle class have to pay tax when the big businesses don't? Especially when the wage gap is so high?
Not living in America I am not sure what you're talking about. I think taxes should pay for education (only the taxes of parents) (because face it, no one will ever get this right unless it is run by a board of scientists or something similar), the police and the military. I do like the idea of optional taxation, for example having a default tax that allows you access to universal health care, but being able to opt out of it should you think you don't need it. Same applies for roads.
The Ubermensch said:
Your ideal is what's happening in America and it's not working.
Again, not an objectivist, and even so objectivism is certainly not what is happening in America otherwise Rand wouldn't have written a word.
The Ubermensch said:
Yes, that is one of the larger flaws I see in Ayn Rand's work. Although she herself seems to be disgusted with the power attained by birth thing also. I can't be bothered to find the quote, but she certainly believes in people leaving big companies and such in the best hands, as opposed to the hands of an incompetent blood relative.
You know this is what the Japanese do? The owner of Suzuki hasn't been of the same blood line as the previous owner for three generations.
My respect for the Japanese has significantly risen in light of this information. I personally try not to be biased towards my family and that is seen as incredibly odd by, well, everyone. The Stoics seem to be pretty good for it though.
The Ubermensch said:
I'll have you know I listen to metal and classical primarily. Current pop music makes my ears bleed.
Though even in a book of lies there is some truth to be had
I read xkcd, in fact that comic was one of the reasons I bought Atlas Shrugged. "You're telling me it's an evil terribly written piece of trash that attempts to justifiy absolute selfishness and that no one should ever read it ever? Yeah, well I'll think I'll decide that for myself. To the Book Depository!". I'm not saying that xkcd said that, but that sure seemed to be everyone else's opinon. Being about 5/6 through it, it doesn't deserve the rap it gets.