IO Changed Hitman: Absolution Following Nun Controversy

[Treblaine]

One gives some justification, however flimsy, for events in its narrative. The other just has events and visuals because they look awesome.

Yeah, that puts ninja palace and sexy nuns-with-guns in the same category as "implausible but there to look awesome".

Exploit Japanese martial arts stereotypes = literally no one cares

Exploit Catholic stereotypes = "OH GOD NO!!! We don't even want play this game and we want it changed!"

 

[TAdamson]

One gives some justification, however flimsy, for events in its narrative. The other just has events and visuals because they look awesome.

Yeah, that puts ninja palace and sexy nuns-with-guns in the same category as "implausible but there to look awesome".

Exploit Japanese martial arts stereotypes = literally no one cares

Exploit Catholic stereotypes = "OH GOD NO!!! We don't even want play this game and we want it changed!"

That is in no way a Catholic stereotype.

Sexy Killer Nuns are a made up thing.

Ninjas are not a made up thing.

 

[Treblaine]

The trailer is not inconsistent with what the fans of the series have come to expect, I don't mean in terms of misogyny but in terms of EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING being exploited to the extreme.

I disagree.

Hitman may not always be realistic, but it's always plausible. Sexy-Killer-Nuns is not plausible and drags me out of the fiction.


I can envisage Japanese mob boss guarding himself with sumo wrestler for the theatre of it.
I HAVE BEEN TO CLUBS WITH BDSM THEMES BELOW MEAT PACKING FACTORIES.
And as for larger than life Shieks; you think that they don't exist?

I know what doesn't exist though and that's a "Funky Force Five" of "Sexy Ninja Bondage Nuns".

O RLY? You can "envisage" a villain hiring lackeys and ordering them to dress a certain way for "the theatre of it".

Hmm, this applies to nuns-with-guns. Welcome to nunsploitation (yes, that's a word):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nunsploitation

Robert Rodriguez can do it for promoting his motion picture, [http://showstalker.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/lindsay-lohan-machete-006.jpg] but it's pretty unheard of for any director to change film for conservatives having a backlash over sexuality... this side of the 21st century at least.

This is as close as video games can get [http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2011/11/nuns.jpg] to nunsploitation before the conservatives begin their sex-negative campaign.

Hitman series has NEVER COURTED PLAUSIBILITY!

He is a clone... from FIVE FATHERS, and he later killed them all then he massacred an army of his clone brothers mowing them down with a giant minigun. He assassinated the Vice President of the United States after saving a presidential candidates from some disgraced former olympians dressed in Big Bird costumes. Ever heard of that happening?

 

[Treblaine]

One gives some justification, however flimsy, for events in its narrative. The other just has events and visuals because they look awesome.

Yeah, that puts ninja palace and sexy nuns-with-guns in the same category as "implausible but there to look awesome".

Exploit Japanese martial arts stereotypes = literally no one cares

Exploit Catholic stereotypes = "OH GOD NO!!! We don't even want play this game and we want it changed!"

That is in no way a Catholic stereotype.

Sexy Killer Nuns are a made up thing.

Ninjas are not a made up thing.

Actually, Ninjas (like seen in the game) ARE made up.

Ninjas never wore all-black, hung out in huge ninja palaces and wielded swords of samurai warriors. The ninja looks like a peasant, acts like a peasant and kills with a short dagger like weapon that looks like a farming implement though almost always it was poison or a contrived accident. Certainly not a ninja palace in 2000's Japan.

It's a completely concocted Japanese stereotype that has as much basis in reality as sexy nuns with machine guns, BOTH emerged in exploitation film in about the mid 20th century in their respective hemispheres.

Certainly most of the other things in Hitman are made up without any remotely plausible basis, like the depiction of central american drug kingpins, of Rotterdam biker gangs, of cloning... yeah, all that cloning of people in vats with 5 fathers and no mother sure sounds plausible to me. And on a scale of HUNDREDS being produced.

 

[TAdamson]

O RLY? You can "envisage" a villain hiring lackeys and ordering them to dress a certain way for "the theatre of it".

Hmm, this applies to nuns-with-guns. Welcome to nunsploitation (yes, that's a word):

No it doesn't. Sumo Wrestlers would make good bouncers.

A bunch of women dressed as BONDAGE-NUNS going to do a hit on a man in a motel room is ridiculous.

Hitman series has NEVER COURTED PLAUSIBILITY!

Really? 90% of the list of missions suggest differently. Assassinating Russian generals, mob bosses, pornographers, rogue agents is all plausible.

He is a clone... from FIVE FATHERS, and he later killed them all then he massacred an army of his clone brothers mowing them down with a giant minigun.

Yes this is silly but at least it's covert. A group of killer sexy nuns is not covert.

Also I'd accept 'Face Off' in the Hitman universe but I wouldn't accept 'Kill Bill'.

He assassinated the Vice President of the United States after saving a presidential candidates from some disgraced former olympians dressed in Big Bird costumes. Ever heard of that happening?

A) Presidential assassination happens
B) Big Bird costumes are very plausible as a disguise. They exist in real life. Sexy Nun Bondage gear exists only in pornography and Rodriguez films.

 

[Dogstile]

Goddamnit IO, we're are not offended just because the women are scantily clad, we (that is, we the fans of Hitman, and therefore the only people whose opinions on the trailer matter in the slightest) are offended because the trailer didn't look like Hitman, it just looked like shitty action schlock with ironic nuns. That is NOT Hitman.

This character has walked into a mental asylum to confront his creator and clones of himself. He's dressed up like a ninja to get into a samurai-era castle to kill a high-value target. He's killed a butcher in a room with a naked woman hanging barefoot from the ceiling. He killed a group of people (men and women) who dressed up as crows, and an "angelic" assassin who will kill him if he doesn't react. He could have spent the majority of the series making people die in freak accidents involving stairs and very short drops. He killed his albino brother in the White House, then followed it up by killing an innocent reporter, a crippled man and an entire funeral service.

Really, this whole incident is pretty far down the list in terms of WTF-ery from the franchise. If they make the story better as a result of this, I'm all for it - besides, there was already an explanation for who they are in one of the trailers.

Please don't presume to speak for everyone who's a fan of this series. Everything I've seen makes this look like it'll be just as good as Blood Money, if not better.

Notice how every single scenario you just described there basically proves my point. In none of those situations were shitty action movie setpieces employed, unlike the trailer. All signs point to the game being exactly that. Blockbuster movie shlock...probably with shitty cover mechanic tacked on for good measure.

Did you watch the chinatown gameplay trailer? People were complaining about the game "probably being a shitty blockbuster" until that came out, then they all suddenly disappeared when they realised hitman is still very much hitman. At most they'll probably have the odd actiony level thrown in, which would be good for switching the game up a bit.

 

[TAdamson]

Actually, Ninjas (like seen in the game) ARE made up.

Ninjas never wore all-black, hung out in huge ninja palaces and wielded swords of samurai warriors. The ninja looks like a peasant, acts like a peasant and kills with a short dagger like weapon that looks like a farming implement though almost always it was poison or a contrived accident. Certainly not a ninja palace in 2000's Japan.

People kill each other with Samurai swords ALL THE TIME. They do it in Australia in clubs.

And if a yak mob boss want to guard his paper walled hide-out with black pajama clad sword wielding security then I can buy that. It's silly sure.

BUT NOT AS FUCKING SILLY AS 7 WOMEN DRESSED IN NUN-THEMED BONDAGE-GEAR CASUALLY STROLLING THROUGH A MOTEL PARKING LOT ON THEIR WAY TO KILL A DEADLY ASSASSIN!!!!!

Certainly most of the other things in Hitman are made up without any remotely plausible basis, like the depiction of central american drug kingpins, of Rotterdam biker gangs,

Really? You don't think those things exist? Again like the Japanese mob stuff some of it might be anachronistic, but it's all plausible.

yeah, all that cloning of people in vats with 5 fathers and no mother sure sounds plausible to me. And on a scale of HUNDREDS being produced.

Not scientifically plausible sure. BUT COMPARED TO 7 WOMEN DRESSED IN NUN-THEMED BONDAGE-GEAR etc etc blah blah blah........................................................


The whole fucking point of the Hitman universe is that you have to sneak around to get anything done. If you can just turn up with a bunch of women who may as well be dressed as Vegas show girls then the universe does not make sense.

There is the willing suspension of disbelief and then there is Kill Bill Sexy Nuns.

It's the difference between the slightly-ridiculous, hyper-violent, Tarantinoverse and the Kill Bill Universe.

One is silly.

The other is ridiculous.

 

[TAdamson]

----

Let's put it this way.

I'd have no problems with Agent 47 battling SexyKillerNuns if they were guarding say,... A goth nightclub,.... or..... the studio of a bondage pornographer.

But out in broad daylight? In a motel car park?

In what plausible universe are Sexy-Killer-Nuns the people you call in that situation? Final Fantasy 16?

 

[Treblaine]

O RLY? You can "envisage" a villain hiring lackeys and ordering them to dress a certain way for "the theatre of it".

Hmm, this applies to nuns-with-guns. Welcome to nunsploitation (yes, that's a word):

No it doesn't. Sumo Wrestlers would make good bouncers.

A bunch of women dressed as BONDAGE-NUNS going to do a hit on a man in a motel room is ridiculous.

Hitman series has NEVER COURTED PLAUSIBILITY!

Really? 90% of the list of missions suggest differently. Assassinating Russian generals, mob bosses, pornographers, rogue agents is all plausible.

He is a clone... from FIVE FATHERS, and he later killed them all then he massacred an army of his clone brothers mowing them down with a giant minigun.

Yes this is silly but at least it's covert. A group of killer sexy nuns is not covert.

Also I'd accept 'Face Off' in the Hitman universe but I wouldn't accept 'Kill Bill'.

He assassinated the Vice President of the United States after saving a presidential candidates from some disgraced former olympians dressed in Big Bird costumes. Ever heard of that happening?

A) Presidential assassination happens
B) Big Bird costumes are very plausible as a disguise. They exist in real life. Sexy Nun Bondage gear exists only in pornography and Rodriguez films.

Have you played the Hitman game? Because I have. At least watch through all the lets-plays of two of the games.

Stop listing plausible things as proof the game is plausible an ignoring the implausible things. It's like watching Kill Bill and saying "well there ARE Yakuza clans in Japan".

How the hell is a mini-gun in a mental asylum covert?

Assassinated IN THE WHITEHOUSE? And escaping alive? You haven't played these games have you.

Sexy nun outfits "exist" as well as big-bird costumes. Big Bird costume is the most implausible disguise, it's as implausible as being dressed as nuns.

 

[Treblaine]

Actually, Ninjas (like seen in the game) ARE made up.

Ninjas never wore all-black, hung out in huge ninja palaces and wielded swords of samurai warriors. The ninja looks like a peasant, acts like a peasant and kills with a short dagger like weapon that looks like a farming implement though almost always it was poison or a contrived accident. Certainly not a ninja palace in 2000's Japan.

People kill each other with Samurai swords ALL THE TIME. They do it in Australia in clubs.

And if a yak mob boss want to guard his paper walled hide-out with black pajama clad sword wielding security then I can buy that. It's silly sure.

BUT NOT AS FUCKING SILLY AS 7 WOMEN DRESSED IN NUN-THEMED BONDAGE-GEAR CASUALLY STROLLING THROUGH A MOTEL PARKING LOT ON THEIR WAY TO KILL A DEADLY ASSASSIN!!!!!

Certainly most of the other things in Hitman are made up without any remotely plausible basis, like the depiction of central american drug kingpins, of Rotterdam biker gangs,

Really? You don't think those things exist? Again like the Japanese mob stuff some of it might be anachronistic, but it's all plausible.

yeah, all that cloning of people in vats with 5 fathers and no mother sure sounds plausible to me. And on a scale of HUNDREDS being produced.

Not scientifically plausible sure. BUT COMPARED TO 7 WOMEN DRESSED IN NUN-THEMED BONDAGE-GEAR etc etc blah blah blah........................................................


The whole fucking point of the Hitman universe is that you have to sneak around to get anything done. If you can just turn up with a bunch of women who may as well be dressed as Vegas show girls then the universe does not make sense.

There is the willing suspension of disbelief and then there is Kill Bill Sexy Nuns.

It's the difference between the slightly-ridiculous, hyper-violent, Tarantinoverse and the Kill Bill Universe.

One is silly.

The other is ridiculous.

CAPS LOCKS ALL YOU LIKE YOU ARE STILL BEING INCONSISTENT IN YOUR REASONING! Is precedent the only thing that matters? Because there is no precedent to ninja palace in 21st century Japan. Some Australian bar fights using a samurai sword does not a ninja palace in the mountains make.

"then the universe does not make sense."

It's not going to make sense if you haven't played any of the games, or even the game in question.

Sexy Killer nuns is well within the suspension of disbelief along with mowing down armies of you clone brothers with a minigun.

"One is silly. The other is ridiculous."

Both are synonymous with each other.

http://thesaurus.com/browse/silly

 

[TAdamson]

How the hell is a mini-gun in a mental asylum covert?

Lot's of soundproofing.

It's stupid but it's better than women choosing to dress in the most non-covert costumes ever to kill someone in a carpark.

Assassinated IN THE WHITEHOUSE? And escaping alive? You haven't played these games have you.

You're missing the difference between "realism" and "plausible suspension of disbelief".

Sexy nun outfits "exist" as well as big-bird costumes.

Not outside of bondage clubs, films, and bedrooms.

Big Bird costume is the most implausible disguise, it's as implausible as being dressed as nuns.

A sexy nun costume would get you arrested in most places. A big bird costume would not.

 

[Treblaine]

----

Let's put it this way.

I'd have no problems with Agent 47 battling SexyKillerNuns if they were guarding say,... A goth nightclub,.... or..... the studio of a bondage pornographer.

But out in broad daylight? In a motel car park?

In what plausible universe are Sexy-Killer-Nuns the people you call in that situation? Final Fantasy 16?

What if they worked FOR a bondage pornographer, or or just some super freaky mob boss was just into that kind of shit.

They went to where Agent 47 was, which was (typically for a Hitman on the run) a seedy motel at the time where they knew he would be there, in the daylight.

It is as implausible as a clone from 5 fathers grown in a vat without even a mother mowing down hundreds of his clone brothers with a minigun. Or foiling an assassination attempt on a presidential candidated by a troop of disgraced olympic gold medalists disguised in big-bird costumes.

Only someone completely ignorant of the games could claim the nun trailer was inconsistent with the series precedents.

 

[TAdamson]

"One is silly. The other is ridiculous."

Both are synonymous with each other.

http://thesaurus.com/browse/silly

Ninjas in a Japanese castle is anachronistic but plausible themically.

Colombian drug lords in a 19th century villa is anachronistic but plausible themically.

Bondage Nuns coming to kill Agent 47 in a parking lot IS NOT PLAUSIBLE THEMICALLY.

By your line of reasoning it would be okay if aliens came down from the sky and Agent 47 had to fight against them on their space ship.

 

[Treblaine]

Sexy nun outfits "exist" as well as big-bird costumes.

Not outside of bondage clubs, films, and bedrooms.

WHAT ARE YOU SAYING?!?!

Are you saying that if you take a sexy-nun outfit outside a sex club, film set or a bedroom the outfit just disappears from existence?!??

Big Bird costume is the most implausible disguise, it's as implausible as being dressed as nuns.

A sexy nun costume would get you arrested in most places. A big bird costume would not.

Nope. They wear enough that it would never be considered indecent exposure. Both would get undue attention. And they approached in what looked like totally legit nuns habits, then they kicked the habit. Who knows how these assassins had been conditioned, what sense of "theatre" their employer expected of them.

If it was realistic, they would be dressed as normal civilians.

Pro-tip: PLAY THE HITMAN SERIES! They are good games and you might then actually know something about the subject that you are saying you can draw conclusions about.

 

[Treblaine]

"One is silly. The other is ridiculous."

Both are synonymous with each other.

http://thesaurus.com/browse/silly

Ninjas in a Japanese castle is anachronistic but plausible themically.

Colombian drug lords in a 19th century villa is anachronistic but plausible themically.

Bondage Nuns coming to kill Agent 47 in a parking lot IS NOT PLAUSIBLE THEMICALLY.

By your line of reasoning it would be okay if aliens came down from the sky and Agent 47 had to fight against them on their space ship.

I have TOLD YOU they aren't just anachronistic, THERE WERE NEVER ninja palaces! It's a concotion of exploitation martial arts movies of the 60's and 70's, even though it fits "themically" (do you mean "thematically").

It's entirely your baseless assertion that it doesn't fit thematically, the seedy motel is part of the Americana theme, nunspoitation is another part of Americana.

Aliens wouldn't be the weirdest thing in the Hitman series.

PS: you played any hitman games yet? Watched a full lets-play at least?

 

[TAdamson]

It is as implausible as a clone from 5 fathers grown in a vat without even a mother mowing down hundreds of his clone brothers with a minigun. Or foiling an assassination attempt on a presidential candidated by a troop of disgraced olympic gold medalists disguised in big-bird costumes.

Only someone completely ignorant of the games could claim the nun trailer was inconsistent with the series precedents.

I've played that game and I agree it's ridiculous.

But I completely disagree that "the series precedents" are "consistant with" bondage-nuns coming to kill 47 in a parking lot.


A) 5 fathers is plausible enough given enough genetic recombinant research.

B) There is no real indication of where the asylum is.

C) The asylum is obviously well sound proofed.


Also if you can hire teams of people dressed like Bondage Nuns to kill people WHY WOULD YOU NEED 47?

 

[TAdamson]

It's entirely your baseless assertion that it doesn't fit thematically, the seedy motel is part of the Americana theme, nunspoitation is another part of Americana.

No it's not.

Americana would be Wall Street Bankers, Florida Drug Dealers, Black Gansters, and Good Ol' Boys. All of which feature in exaggerated fashion in Hitman.

Hitman is about exaggeration NOT FANTASY.

Bondage nuns would be more appropriate in a German or Russian strip club.

To have them in broad daylight in a motel parking lot IS FANTASY.

Why the fuck would you dress as bondage nuns to go kill a guy in a motel?


On the other hand if I was attacked by a bunch of clones of myself in an insane asylum and I had a minigun I'd totally shoot them with the minigun... That would make sense from a motivational point of view.

But these ladies? I don't get the motivation to strap on lots of uncomfortable leather AND WIMPLES to go kill someone when:

A) Jeans and a T-shirt would make more sense covertly.
B) Body armour would make more sense non-covertly

 

[Treblaine]

It is as implausible as a clone from 5 fathers grown in a vat without even a mother mowing down hundreds of his clone brothers with a minigun. Or foiling an assassination attempt on a presidential candidated by a troop of disgraced olympic gold medalists disguised in big-bird costumes.

Only someone completely ignorant of the games could claim the nun trailer was inconsistent with the series precedents.

I've played that game and I agree it's ridiculous.

But I completely disagree that "the series precedents" are "consistant with" bondage-nuns coming to kill 47 in a parking lot.


A) 5 fathers is plausible enough given enough genetic recombinant research.

B) There is no real indication of where the asylum is.

C) The asylum is obviously well sound proofed.


Also if you can hire teams of people dressed like Bondage Nuns to kill people WHY WOULD YOU NEED 47?

Come back when you have actually played through more of the series as you DO discover where the Asylum is and the police respond in force and find hundreds of dead identical twins (triplets, multiplets?) riddled with bullets. It is in no way covert. And even if Agen 47 tens to be covert, why should another separate group coming after him be covert?

And why would you need Agent 47? For one, if they are trying to kill 47 then he obviously isn't on their side, and for two, agent 47 manages to not only survive but kill all the assassins who came after him. You don't have any idea bout Hitman do you? You don't know who he is even working for now. He's an unstoppable killing machine, he's the best.

It's entirely your baseless assertion that it doesn't fit thematically, the seedy motel is part of the Americana theme, nunspoitation is another part of Americana.

No it's not.

Americana would be Wall Street Bankers, Florida Drug Dealers, Black Gansters, and Good Ol' Boys. All of which feature in exaggerated fashion in Hitman.

Hitman is about exaggeration NOT FANTASY.

Bondage nuns would be more appropriate in a German or Russian strip club.

To have them in broad daylight in a motel parking lot IS FANTASY.

But nusploitation was mainly in AMERICAN exploitation films set in AMERICA! It's a part of Americana. Did you read that nunsploitation article? See films don't have this problem, games really are getting unfair persecution on this issue objecting to nunsploitation that films have used since the 1960's.

Don't know what you are saying about "fantasy" none of the games in the series have been reality. Are you failing to insinuate this is just fap material as that is utterly disingenuous and totally unconvincing though ceetainly easy to make a drive by baseless insinuation. No. It's designed to shock not for oogling.

Why the fuck would you dress as bondage nuns to go kill a guy in a motel?


On the other hand if I was attacked by a bunch of clones of myself in an insane asylum and I had a minigun I'd totally shoot them with the minigun... That would make sense from a motivational point of view.

But these ladies? I don't get the motivation to strap on lots of uncomfortable leather AND WIMPLES to go kill someone when:

A) Jeans and a T-shirt would make more sense covertly.
B) Body armour would make more sense non-covertly

Because their boss is a sick weirdo who has a "taste for the theatrical". Much like many of the previous opponents Agent 47 has gone against.

I mean did you play the ending of Hitman Blood Money. That's no way practical, entirely theatre that jeopardised their lives.

It's established by the logo the killer-nuns are all wearing these are not some freelancers who do things their own way being driven entirely by practicality.