Is TES5 Completely Missing the Point?

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the Dept of Science

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Oblivion may not have been as big as Morrowind, but I do get the impression that they put more time into what was actually there. Morrowind may have had 18 joinable factions, each with a tonne of quests, but a lot of the early quests (I played a Morrowind for a decent amount of time, but don't think I got THAT far) struck me as fairly bland "go here, kill x". I can't remember any Oblivion quests that felt like a chore in the same way that many Morrowind ones did.
Oblivion may have been shorter than Morrowind, but I got more play time out of it than most games I own and even then I didn't get anywhere near to completing it. If someone told me that they had doubled the amount of quests in Oblivion for Skyrim, it wouldn't have made any difference to me, because I couldn't even complete all of Oblivion's. More quests does not necessarily mean a better game.
 

Sennz0r

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Right, so. I have indeed played the crap out of Oblivion. I was psyched out of my mind that my favourite game ever got a sequel, that it would be playable on a platform that wouldn't crash on me every 3 hours and that it was actually playable on said platform (Tried Morrowind on Xbox once, it was terrible). However I'd be remiss if I didn't mention my disappointment in the game, and how I still feel like I'd be playing a lot more Morrowind if I had the PC for it (which, by the way, should be arriving this week; joy :D).

Starting off I noticed that there were a lot less skills to choose from. I couldn't use any more spears, enchantment became a Mages' Guild only thing so playing a rogue mage and getting your gear boosted was out of the question (apart from sigil stones, but those limit your options). Axes were blunt weapons all of a sudden, two entire armour classes disappeared, and there was no more distinction between short and long blades (this last change does speak to logic from a weapon type point of view, but for realism's sake one could argue if wielding a dagger requires the same know-how as wielding a claymore).
After having gone through the skill cut I found out there were no more darts or throwing stars, levitation, Mark and Recall -my three favourite spells- disappeared in lieu of a fast travel system, and for some reason staves apparently became weightless because you couldn't hit someone over the head with them anymore (I'm not saying staves were particularly useful, but I kind of liked them seeing as I liked to imagine my mage could still pack a punch with a weapon that also fires bolts of lightning.

Now the staff thing is just me being a whiny dick because Bethesda took something away that I may or may not have wanted to use, like a kid who cries after his parents throw out a torn up stuffed animal he hasn't played with for over 3 years, but I'll tell you what the rest of those cuts did to my experience of Oblivion. For one, taking away Mark and Recall, the ability to travel by ship or silt strider (I assume that would be swapped with a horse and carriage in Cyrodiil) and replacing those things with fast travel made the world significantly smaller to me. Mark, Recall and the transport modes provided extensive yet limited transport, taking you to the vicinity of where you needed to be or to one single exact place you wanted to go back to, and that was it. Allowing players to practically every location (given you've been there before, fair enough) does kind of make it easy to have been there and done that a lot faster. It wasn't all bad of course. I used the fast traveling system myself because it made sure I didn't need to run halfway across the country just to get where I wanted to be right then and there. It's just a shame that it had to have such a drawback.

Cutting levitation was also one of my bigger annoyances. I used that spell as a mage to get away from creatures that would otherwise swarm me, so they couldn't touch me and I could heal and blast fireballs into their face while they just stood there helpless. It was a great advantage for mages since they're athletically and physically compromised, and it was a shame to see it go.

I could go on, but I noticed there's already a wall of text up there and if I'd continue on this path I would just end up nit-picking about stuff that's not too important. Just to wrap it up with a nice little bow: I think the OP has a point in being concerned about the direction TES V: Skyrim might be taking. From what we are hearing they are cutting skills again and advertising combat systems more than the world itself. I do welcome these changes. Morrowind was flawed in a lot of ways, and Oblivion obviously wasn't perfect either, so change is great. It's just that I'm worried they might be focusing more and more on the action rather than the story, lore and depth which got me hooked to the series in the first place.All that's left to do though is wait until the game comes out and actually see if they shifted further into action elements, and lessened their focus on lore exposition.

TL;DR: OP has a point, we just need to wait until the game comes out to see if it has merit.
 

CD-R

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ZippyDSMlee said:
SODAssault said:
I guess we no longer feel obligated to wait for a game to come out before we start whining about how it ruined the series forever.
But in FO3s case they were right.
I take it you never played Fallout Brotherhood of Steel on the X Box and PS2.

 

Polaris19

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IT's only the first few details. We've got 9+ months to go before it goes gold. Plenty of time to learn more about the game,
 

HK_01

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I don't see why improving some areas of the game must lead to a decline in others. The things I'm most skeptical about are the dual wielding and how the dragons will be implemented (I don't want QTEs).
 

imnot

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CD-R said:
ZippyDSMlee said:
SODAssault said:
I guess we no longer feel obligated to wait for a game to come out before we start whining about how it ruined the series forever.
But in FO3s case they were right.
I take it you never played Fallout Brotherhood of Steel on the X Box and PS2.

What the fuck was that.
 

Woodsey

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SimuLord said:
From the looks of it, absolutely nothing you've mentioned as causing you so much trepidation has anything whatsoever to do with the story or the richness of the interaction with NPCs. They would just seem to have massively improved the combat and leveling systems.
Oh, but don't you see? If you also improve the elements that are non-RPG then the game's just a shitty shallow beat em up!

OT: Play the fucking game first. Or at least some actual fucking footage.

Oh, and the game has been said to have 5 major cities, that doesn't make them the only bloody settlements in the game, nor do we have any idea just how big they actually are yet.
 

CD-R

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imnotparanoid said:
CD-R said:
ZippyDSMlee said:
SODAssault said:
I guess we no longer feel obligated to wait for a game to come out before we start whining about how it ruined the series forever.
But in FO3s case they were right.
I take it you never played Fallout Brotherhood of Steel on the X Box and PS2.

What the fuck was that.
A trailer for the real worst Fallout game ever made
 

imnot

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CD-R said:
imnotparanoid said:
CD-R said:
ZippyDSMlee said:
SODAssault said:
I guess we no longer feel obligated to wait for a game to come out before we start whining about how it ruined the series forever.
But in FO3s case they were right.
I take it you never played Fallout Brotherhood of Steel on the X Box and PS2.

What the fuck was that.
A trailer for the real worst Fallout game ever made
But, it, HOw, Fallout, What the hell?
 

PatrickXD

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You are making assumptions based on thin air, I say wait until we get a hint as to map size and depth of quests before we start raving at Bethesda for 'missing the point' once more.
 

CD-R

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imnotparanoid said:
CD-R said:
imnotparanoid said:
CD-R said:
ZippyDSMlee said:
SODAssault said:
I guess we no longer feel obligated to wait for a game to come out before we start whining about how it ruined the series forever.
But in FO3s case they were right.
I take it you never played Fallout Brotherhood of Steel on the X Box and PS2.

What the fuck was that.
A trailer for the real worst Fallout game ever made
But, it, HOw, Fallout, What the hell?
Fun Facts about Fallout Brotherhood of Steel.

Nuka Cola was replaced with Bawls energy drink in the game.
The disc includes a music video by the band Hatebreed. (wearing Bawls energy drink T-Shirts).
Ron Pearlman isn't in the game but, Tony Jay the voice of the Lieutenant from Fallout 1 returns to do the voice of the main villain
You can meet the Vault Dweller from Fallout 1 in the first town.
 

Ace of Spades

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Um, no? I'm really looking forward to Skyrim. It looks like they've made significant improvements to the combat and levelling system. My only question is whether it will still have the hilarious detection AI that made using stealth so entertaining.
 

David Bray

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YawningAngel said:
I was looking at the news article, and I couldn't help but be perturbed by the 'features' that TES5 is said to contain: what truly made the series great for me was the detail it included, and the attention paid to it: the fact that you could go to the 43rd town you found in Daggerfall or Morrowind, and find a genuinely interesting quest (and moreover that there actually was a meaningful 43rd town); that you didn't just find a common-or-garden bandit toting Daedric armour, and actually had to go hunt the stuff down; in short, that it had all the fine touches of Vampire Clans, Strongholds, Red Mountain, 9000 different factions, Levitation, a way to completely bork the main quest and still complete the game and all the other small touches that gave the world a touch of verisimilitude that Oblivion's shallow offering couldn't even touch. Don't get me wrong: Oblivion was, by the standards of most RPGs, a deep and satisfying game. It just couldn't hold a candle to the rich, feature-filled behemoth of Morrowind.
.
This. I've spent years trying to teach people how much they missed out on just playing Oblivion. It was a piss stain compared to the other TES games.
However, we haven't been told plot and such because their hopefully going to do that when they've sold us on the tech. Fear not.
Until you find out the game is just miles of grass, trees, the odd bit of snow, and enlessly respawning wolves should we worry.
 

zHellas

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Feb 7, 2010
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Jazoni89 said:
Are you worried about this game?




Because im sure as hell not.
....Damn....

SODAssault said:
I guess we no longer feel obligated to wait for a game to come out before we start whining about how it ruined the series forever.
Dude... This is the Internet. Never has that happened once the Internet showed up.

/joke

OT:

Ehh... I say have cautious optimism on it.
 

WanderingFool

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Im personally hopeful about it. There were things I disliked in Oblivion, but mods cleared those problems up right quick, but over all, I enjoyed it almost as much as morrowind.

I only hope they add some more unique weapons, like the spear or throwing weapons. Actually, I want one of these for an "unarmed" weapon:


Just imagen the carnage you would see :)
 

Lt. Vinciti

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Sprinting?
DualWield?
Killing Blows?
Dueling?

Oh yeah...seems these improvements are going to ruin a game...


You really think Bethesda is going to fuck up what has taken ~5+ years to make?

What is this.....Call of Duty?
 

GiglameshSoulEater

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WanderingFool said:
Im personally hopeful about it. There were things I disliked in Oblivion, but mods cleared those problems up right quick, but over all, I enjoyed it almost as much as morrowind.

I only hope they add some more unique weapons, like the spear or throwing weapons. Actually, I want one of these for an "unarmed" weapon:


Just imagen the carnage you would see :)
That... just... using that is not unarmed, not unarmed at all!

OT: wait before passing judgement.
 

blankedboy

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veloper said:
I'll bet TES5 will be cookie cutter boring stupid and sell like hot cakes.
This is exactly my prediction.
I'm gonna get it and hope it'll be good, but I don't expect the game to live up to my hopes.

Lenny Magic said:
The Game isn't even out yet, so yeah I can only speculate that it isn't "Completely Missing the Point?". I'm probably the only one who is going to say this but I found the hugeness of Morrowind to be a bit of a silly gimmick. Yeah a huge world where it takes you over 2 hours to trek across the map, is a cool idea, until you actually have to do it more than 3 times. It took me almost a month the get half way into the story just because I had to stop to rest my finger from holding down the "W" key (Yes I know I could have just used the "q" key, but then I might as well have been watching the maze screen saver on an old Windows computers).

Point is reading game hype is like asking to be slapped by a lot of disappointment.
Oh yeah, there are big bug-style things or boats in most of the towns. Shame they're just there for aesthetics, huh.