It Never Ends

[Mahoshonen]

Every character in Dragons Crown is drawn with absurd levels of exaggeration. So what if one of the characters has large breasts?!

Western society is too prudish.

If you don't like the look of a character, then don't play as her, or simply don't buy the game at all.

Unfortunately, not looking at a fire doesn't extinguish it.

And what harm will come to you by ignoring this game?

Yeah, and everyone should have paid no attention to Triuph of the Will because it was nothing but a collection of film strips that no one had to watch.

(Yeah I know, Godwin's Law. But I feel these threads are so stupid that they deserve it)

 

[Paradoxrifts]

Every character in Dragons Crown is drawn with absurd levels of exaggeration. So what if one of the characters has large breasts?!

Western society is too prudish.

If you don't like the look of a character, then don't play as her, or simply don't buy the game at all.

Unfortunately, not looking at a fire doesn't extinguish it. The those that did blow the whistle on this game were probably concerned about how this work might influence works to perpetuate something we would preferably shove into the backrooms.

So then those people are guilty of betraying other gamers, and they are doing it to appease the ignorance of others. And I wouldn't stop to piss on them even if they were on fire. The enemy is those who would try to blame and shame everyone who enjoys an artistic medium because they find certain uses of that medium to be offensive.

From arch-conservatives to militant feminists, to the far-right to the far-left of the political spectrum, those who attempt to politicise gaming are no friends to any gamer who would like to play games free of censorship and repression.

Hey, did you know that criticism and censorship are not synonymous? Amazing, I know!

There is a world of difference between someone offering solid and constructive criticism, and using the entertainment that we love not only as a soapbox of their own political viewpoints but also engaging in organised attempts to censor dissenting viewpoints, and enforce to the best of their ability a consensus on what and what isn't acceptable to be included in a video game.

 

[Paradoxrifts]

Yeah, and everyone should have paid no attention to Triuph of the Will because it was nothing but a collection of film strips that no one had to watch.

(Yeah I know, Godwin's Law. But I feel these threads are so stupid that they deserve it)

And this is why we have Godwin's Law. You just compared scantily clad women to Nazis. The fictional characters are not trying to convey any message or morals, they're just scantily clad and you compare them to Nazis.

What about scantily clad Nazis?​

 

[Entitled]

Everyone has the right to be offensive. You have no rights protecting you from being offended. Don't like it? Don't look, listen, or participate.

Or what? You will feel offended? Please, "CRY SOEM MOAR" about how people' negative opinions about a game's design shouldn't exist.

That was pretty much the point of the article, if you would have read it istead of just assuming that it must be about feminazis trying to violate your freedom of speech regarding Dragon's Crown.

Progressives won't shut up about conservative stances being "offensive", because while everyone has a right to be offensive, everyone also has a right to call out everyone else on being offensive. (and of course, everyone has a right to call out people on crying "offensive" too early).

So long as the same basic human right of free speech holds one individual's ability to say something and another individual's ability to voice displeasure at what the first said as equally protected, there will always be these arguments. Always.

You haven't added anything to this argument, you just made one step back to how your rights imply that these arguments shouldn't exist.

 

[Twinmill5000]

Please tell me I'm not in the minority here when I say: who gives a shit?

In the words of a random female Castanic from another game that stirred up at least just as much controversy over boobs and the portrayal of women: If you don't like it, leave.

That's really all there is to it. They can design the characters they want, and make the games they want and... you, you can choose not to buy the game if it offends you that much. Call of Duty offends me. I don't own anything past Modern Warfare 2. It's easier than complaining and makes a bigger impact.

Personally? I don't like this new character. She's shown up on certain sites for at least a couple years now, and, no... she isn't what I consider attractive. I'm not going to go into a rage, however, because she simply exists. Don't get me wrong, I'm looking for a strong, good example of a well done female character who isn't sexualized more than anyone here, I guarantee it, and most of the characters I've created, for game concepts I'm too lazy to put an alpha up of (regardless of how beneficial it may be) in UDK, satisfy that craving. As much as I'd like to see better examples of female characters, this character, in particular... doesn't piss me off, and it shouldn't piss you off. From what I can tell, she's not memorable, not worth your time, and exists for fanfare. There's nothing wrong with that. If the rest of the world wants to point this game and say 'this is why games r 4 kidz look at how imatur they r' then fuck the rest of the world in its super tight sphincter with the biggest fist you can find, because when all is said and done, the only one who can decide whether or not you like something, is yourself, nobody else.

And if you really care what the rest of the world thinks, throw Bioshock at them or something. We have mature games, or at least, we have games that strive to be mature. There will always be a market for that. We also have immature games that wear silly hats and like to draw large, cartoonish boobs on everything. There's a market for that, too.

 

[Entitled]

In the words of a random female Castanic from another game that stirred up at least just as much controversy over boobs and the portrayal of women: If you don't like it, leave.

That's really all there is to it. They can design the characters they want, and make the games they want and... you, you can choose not to buy the game if it offends you that much

So what are you still doing in this thread that you don't like?

The problem with criticising compaints about offensive content for what they are, is that it's an obvious "I'm rubber you're glue" situation. Every complaint that you can make about how people shouldn't complain, sticks to you. By your own logic, if you don't like feminist arguments, you are free to not listen to them.

Ironically, this is what the OP article actually *is* about, how discussions like this will never end in a society with freedom of speech. People won't just "leave" because someone else is not as offeneded about the game as they are.

They can post the complaints that they want, abd make the articles they want and... you, you can choose not to click on them if it offends you that much.

Except that you also have a right to express your opinion that they should leave, just as they have a righ to express their opinion that Dragon's Crown should leave.

 

[JoshuaMadoc]

Please tell me I'm not in the minority here when I say: who gives a shit?

I give a semi-trailer's worth of shit, purely because Kamitani's still getting attacked by Schreier and his suckups even after Kamitani apologized. Sorry, but that's the kind of act that warrants another eye-for-an-eye treatment, and I will not stop my utter scorn for filth like him until he finally accepts Kamitani's apology, which was, in the first place, issued after a lot of pressure from half the fucking internet.

God forbid Kamitani goes even further with his apology and outright omitting the Sorceress in the release build.

 

[TazTheTerrible]

Trying to keep this short and to the point:

The problem isn't the Sorceress' design. The problem isn't that she exists or that characters like her exist. The problem isn't even that female characters are portrayed as sexually appealing. The problem is the pervasive trend which this character design is an example of, which is to treat women as ONLY sex objects.

There would not be any problem with characters like this at all (not even as part of a trend) if they were only ever enjoyed as silly little indulgences on the side, with the full understanding of what it was you were indulging in.

The problem is that we're not at that level of maturity yet. We have a serious sexism problem in the game industry. Many of our games depict women as object. Passive characters, existing generally for the support of the male lead and often with implied sexual thematic.

The problem in this instance is that characters like this, in today's game culture, tend to reinforce that trend. The problem is NOT liking sex or sexy characters. The problem is NOT that you or anyone else finds this kind of design appealing, sexually or not and the solution is NOT to censor or ban games or characters like this.

The solution is to grow up as a culture, admit that we have a problem, and start seeing women as people rather than as a collection of sexual attributes, then to act accordingly.

 

[Akisa]

I just view how sexualized the female characters are, and that's what I judge if a game is worth my time. Over sexualized and it means that the game is relying on that and thus the chances are the game is crap. If they're more modest the better the game is.

 

[LazyAza]

I hate hate haaaaate it when people say "can we please stop talking about X and go back to talking about "games". Makes my blood boil that kind of nonsensical lazy idiotic attitude. It's the fastest way to directly destroy the potential of the entire medium of games and because so many people depressingly share this mentality we are still seeing so little progress, so little change at such a slow rate across the industry.

One day I'd like to live in a world where a game staring a female lead who isn't just vapid eye candy exists that has a big budget and actually sells a tonne of copies on a regular basis. The new Tomb Raider was quite decent in this regard but that's what, 1 game of lets say the 4 or 5 from the past 20 years? compared to letsee maybe somewhere between 1 and 3 hundred games staring males over the same time period?

And yet their are people in the world who think this isn't a problem... Talk about burying your head in the sand. yeesh

I'm as much a red blooded hetro male as the next, boobs n all that are great but god damn what I would give to get some variety from my games. Even playing the last mortal kombat recently again I am still wondering "really guys did every female in this need double Ds, a micro waist and a third of an outfit? its not just a matter of desiring diversity, the whole super sexualized female game character trope is just so over done and lazy now. Theirs nothing to be gained from it being so over used anymore, its been done enough, why aren't most people just arguing for different things to this simply to have them? Absolute madness not too at this stage imo.

 

[Arkynomicon]

I loathe all Internet bandwagons based around group Y wanting to stop group X from enjoying something. Just let group X enjoy whatever rubbish they fawn over. If they are being obnoxious about it then you can tell them to go fornicate themselves.

Making a big deal about peoples escapism is just stupid and childish when there are real world problems tearing the world asunder everywhere.

 

[Twinmill5000]

-snip-

Oh, gee, that isn't an obvious point at all. You're damn right about one thing. I don't like that people don't like that people don't like that people don't like that people don't like something. So, by your logic, why don't I leave?

The answer's quite simple, really.

In my first post, I mentioned something about making an impact? But here's where you're... what's the opposite of right again. Right. Wrong.

See, I'm a huge advocate for freedom of speech, but really, when I say 'free speech', I mean freedom of expression. You may want things you don't agree with thrown into obscurity and never to be mentioned, or ultimately, nonexistent. Your post oozes with this point. I want the opposite. I want a world where nothing is considered obscure, only niche, at worst, and thus, while I have the right to post what I want, and create what I want, you have the right to leave.

In terms you can understand: Complaining is not your only option. You have far more, and while I tried to convey the message that you can make an impact in more ways than one, you obviously didn't get it. So here, let me spell it out for you. You can either write me back, and have the short term justification of 'putting me in my place', which, let's be honest, if you're going to look back on this a year from now and go 'man I'm sure glad I put Twinmill5000 in his place', then you're sad and I no longer wish to speak with you, not that I'm implying I ever did, or you can just, ignore me.

But, that won't make my contributions to this thread go away, as I still find some desire to do so. Funny how that works, eh?

 

[Entitled]

See, I'm a huge advocate for freedom of speech, but really, when I say 'free speech', I mean freedom of expression. You may want things you don't agree with thrown into obscurity and never to be mentioned, or ultimately, nonexistent. Your post oozes with this point.

Yeah, could you point at the part of my post that "oozes of" wanting to make things nonexistent? Or for that matter, the part of the OP article that claimed anything like that?

Your "contributions to this thread" so far consist of a reflexive knee-jerk assumption that everyone who thinks that discussions of whether somehing offends us are just natural, and they won't go away, is really out to get you. If I'm not joining you in wanting to silence complaints, then obviously I must be agreeing with those complaints, including the most extreme ones of them that are crying for it's nonexistence.

If you don't want to read the whole article, then at least read the last paragraphs, and understand that all your "contributions to this thread" are just another example of muddying the waters by not accepting the basic fact that people WILL tell it when they are offended by something, and acting as if every and all critcism would be an all-out attack on your precious idea of diversity.