I'll be perfectly honest the sorceress is what made me check this game out, I'm a guy I like sexy things. However it's the elf and the dwarf characters that made me want to play this game.
It Never Ends
- Thread starter MovieBob
- Start date
This argument relies on the assumption that diversity is and of itself a good thing.
It isn't. It's just a thing.
I don't think a majority of gamers would care what the identity of their protagonist is, so long as they were relatable and didn't feel forced.
It isn't. It's just a thing.
I don't think a majority of gamers would care what the identity of their protagonist is, so long as they were relatable and didn't feel forced.
Using your pic!ToastiestZombie said:What irks me is that all the other characters designs are being ignored because of one OTT female character in a game filled with OTT characters. Here's a picture of all the characters:
The other two female characters are a pretty, but relatively un-sexualized archer and a MASSIVE amazonian woman.
Another thing that irks me is the fact that because of this one character the game hasn't had any other discussion about it, and to be honest it doesn't even look that good anyway.
OT
Oh interwebz thy double standard never ceases to fail. As a normal man I know I will never look like the dude in the bottom left. I just do not have the ability to exercise my ear lobes like that. Hell look at the head size to forearm size ratio, that is not even close to realistic. These are all obviously caricatures of people.... ALLL of them. If that offends you then this is not going to be your cup o tea.
Thanks a lot Bob for posting this! The thing that bothers me the most about the current discussion is people trying to shame me for enjoying the female figure (in any media). But then again I guess my views coincide more with the "sex positive" feminist than anything else.
More diversity in gaming is always welcomed.
More diversity in gaming is always welcomed.
Firstly, let me clear something up:
I wish people would stop saying "this was drawn by a 14 year old boy" because any male who finds this character genuinely appealing to look at is either blind or bonkers.
I'm usually someone who's not against over-sexualized characters when the character actually LOOKS sexy.
But there is nothing beautiful or appealing about this "Sorceress" character, her figure is disgusting to look at! There is nothing sexy about watermelon-sized boobs which behave like they're filled with water and bounce around like they're trying to detach from the woman, with hips so disproportionately large it looks more ALIEN than human.
There are good kinds of over-sexualization and then there are the bad kind. This is the worst kind.
If you want to design a beautifully over-sexualized character, don't give me a disgusting animal that has giant tumors in it's chest and hips. I don't find that sexy in the least and as people can see from the Youtube ratings, hardly anyone does.
That is all.
I wish people would stop saying "this was drawn by a 14 year old boy" because any male who finds this character genuinely appealing to look at is either blind or bonkers.
I'm usually someone who's not against over-sexualized characters when the character actually LOOKS sexy.
But there is nothing beautiful or appealing about this "Sorceress" character, her figure is disgusting to look at! There is nothing sexy about watermelon-sized boobs which behave like they're filled with water and bounce around like they're trying to detach from the woman, with hips so disproportionately large it looks more ALIEN than human.
There are good kinds of over-sexualization and then there are the bad kind. This is the worst kind.
If you want to design a beautifully over-sexualized character, don't give me a disgusting animal that has giant tumors in it's chest and hips. I don't find that sexy in the least and as people can see from the Youtube ratings, hardly anyone does.
That is all.
So there's a gallery of pictures of the characters in another article [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/123560-Dragons-Crown-Designer-Apologizes-for-Exaggerated-Characters] here and I could really only stand to look at a couple of them before closing the tab not because "OMG SEXIST OBJECTIFICATION OF WIMMINZ!" but because the designs are horribly disproportionate and kind of disgusting to look at least in my opinion.
There is not point in getting worked up into a lather when a game company does something like this. If they were to do the total opposite of the Dragon's Crown character design and make the most puritan looking characters possible there would be tons of backlash against that as well, some of it from the same people that are throwing a tantrum over this "debacle". No matter what anyone does with this issue it's going to piss people off because it's a popular thing to argue about on the internet right now. It's not going to go away until a bunch of people find something else to be all indignant over and nothing is going to change, except for the topic of these circular internet arguments.
There is enough room in the industry for reasonably designed female characters right next to the over sexualized three eye patch held together with dental floss characters.
There is not point in getting worked up into a lather when a game company does something like this. If they were to do the total opposite of the Dragon's Crown character design and make the most puritan looking characters possible there would be tons of backlash against that as well, some of it from the same people that are throwing a tantrum over this "debacle". No matter what anyone does with this issue it's going to piss people off because it's a popular thing to argue about on the internet right now. It's not going to go away until a bunch of people find something else to be all indignant over and nothing is going to change, except for the topic of these circular internet arguments.
There is enough room in the industry for reasonably designed female characters right next to the over sexualized three eye patch held together with dental floss characters.
This issue is pretty stupid. Just don't buy the game.
I'm of two minds myself. First, if someone feels something is wrong, I believe they have every right to stand up for what they believe in (within reason). On the other hand, you always have to pick your battles and this is a stupid stupid battle to participate in. I don't have much in the way of respect for anyone over at Kotaku. They only did what they did for the click throughs. They aren't, by any stretch of the imagination, a legitimate or important or even good source of news as much as they are an opinion factory (like most game "Journalist" sites (I use that word quite liberally in cases like this)). The fact that they would attack the lead artist for an issue they have in the game when in fact anyone in the long chain of decision makers could have put the end to that. If he is an example of someone who is fighting for the equality of women and the image of women in gaming... well he sucks and should be gagged right now, because he isn't helping anyone.
I also feel that artists (a term I'm going to use loosely in this case) should have a little more going on than giant breasts on a woman and overly muscled up men who can crush mountains. I love comics and a big part of comics is exaggeration, but any artist should have a care about whether or not they are ruining the aesthetic of their work and by extension the visual message they are sending to the general public overall. In other words, it's fine if you want to draw that, but keep it at home. There is an audience that seeks work like that (many of which are fully grown and responsible adults, not just boys going through puberty), but it probably doesn't extend the general overall public.
I'm of two minds myself. First, if someone feels something is wrong, I believe they have every right to stand up for what they believe in (within reason). On the other hand, you always have to pick your battles and this is a stupid stupid battle to participate in. I don't have much in the way of respect for anyone over at Kotaku. They only did what they did for the click throughs. They aren't, by any stretch of the imagination, a legitimate or important or even good source of news as much as they are an opinion factory (like most game "Journalist" sites (I use that word quite liberally in cases like this)). The fact that they would attack the lead artist for an issue they have in the game when in fact anyone in the long chain of decision makers could have put the end to that. If he is an example of someone who is fighting for the equality of women and the image of women in gaming... well he sucks and should be gagged right now, because he isn't helping anyone.
I also feel that artists (a term I'm going to use loosely in this case) should have a little more going on than giant breasts on a woman and overly muscled up men who can crush mountains. I love comics and a big part of comics is exaggeration, but any artist should have a care about whether or not they are ruining the aesthetic of their work and by extension the visual message they are sending to the general public overall. In other words, it's fine if you want to draw that, but keep it at home. There is an audience that seeks work like that (many of which are fully grown and responsible adults, not just boys going through puberty), but it probably doesn't extend the general overall public.
This really is way, way beyond "over sexualized". See my above post, the goal of over-sexualization should be to make a character that is at least appealing and beautiful to look at.Stryc9 said:
But this creature looks like she escaped from the depths of art hell and is the polar opposite of "beautiful". Well, everything below her neck at least.
You know, just because it was intentionally done doesn't make it immune to criticism. You criticize things if you don't like them, especially if they're out on the mass market. This game is not immune. And I'm pretty sure people have criticized Madworld for being too violent, and very few ran of Gears of War when it was being criticized for being over the top with massive muscle bound men that looked like they abused steroids on a regular basis. It was done intentionally, but people criticized it because they didn't like it.Tanis said:
OT: I agree with Bob. I'm not asking people to be morally ashamed for liking this game, but you really can't expect everyone to be ok with this. We're gonna criticize it if we don't like it. I'm a big Halo fan but I put up with everyone criticizing it on this website, this game doesn't deserve special attention.
Might want to put a NSFW tag on that one.CrossLOPER said:Art has not changed a bit over the millennia.
So, it really isn't going to stop? Ever?
I feared this. Here's the thing, the sane people aren't the problem. We are trapped between two extremes. People who, as said, refuse to see a problem, and people who think there is nothing else but the problem.
And they won't. Shut. Up. They won't become better informed and they will never, ever stop and goddammit, it's really driving me fucking crazy. It seems to just go on, and on, and on, with no real progress made. No doubt it can't just be ignored, like I said, people ignoring it is part of the problem, but sweet jesus, can we not just discuss this semi decently? The discussions around this are vicious even by internet standards.
I feared this. Here's the thing, the sane people aren't the problem. We are trapped between two extremes. People who, as said, refuse to see a problem, and people who think there is nothing else but the problem.
And they won't. Shut. Up. They won't become better informed and they will never, ever stop and goddammit, it's really driving me fucking crazy. It seems to just go on, and on, and on, with no real progress made. No doubt it can't just be ignored, like I said, people ignoring it is part of the problem, but sweet jesus, can we not just discuss this semi decently? The discussions around this are vicious even by internet standards.
Yuuki said:
We're pretty much saying the same thing on the subject of Dragon's Crown but there is an overall issue here where every so often a game comes out that has characters that aren't as disgusting to look at as some these but are still considered to be "over sexualized" and certain portions of the community get all worked up and scream about how the artists are all sexists that do nothing but sit around and objectify women all day. Whether or not that's the case I can't really say because I don't work with these people but I seriously doubt it's what goes on.Stryc9 said:
I think what bothers me the most about the Dragon's Crown characters, at leas the Amazon and that female Ranger\Archer thing along with the Dwarf thingy is the legs, they look like the guy didn't know what legs look like or he was looking a pictures of 'roided out body builders for inspiration while he was drawing those characters.
That's funny, because there is another female character IN THIS EVERY GAME who looks entirely different. So it seems that it IS the fact that even ONE exists that's twisting people panties or noodles respectively.
When I look at The Sorceress don't even see a character the designer is seriously hoping men cream their pants over. I see an absurdest satire of a 40 year old cliché. Yes the breasts physics are a joke, because IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE A JOKE!
I find it ironic when people complain about "sexy" characters they often give counter examples saying characters should, "look more like this..." with Fayth from Mirror's Edge on many people's short list of examples. As far as I'm concerned Fayth is the single sexiest character I've ever seen in a game. Don't assume your ideas about what people find sexy in a character design is in any way universal.
Furthermore, dictating what all characters should, or should not look like is demanding homogeneity, just a homogeneity you happen to prefer.