It's Time To Forgive George Lucas
- Thread starter MovieBob
- Start date
I liked all of the Star Wars and Indiana Jones movies. I don't see what the big deal is. And regardless of which Star Wars trilogy is better, they both suck in comparison to pretty much all of the expanded universe fiction, especially KOTOR and Zahn's Heir to the Empire trilogy.
I think its more like its time to stop expecting George Lucas to impress us like he used to.
He's made some of the best movies I've ever seen- but I think he's trying to do too much on his own. I was never personally offended by him or his newest movies, they were just a disappointment. I get the feeling the guy doesn't have many people criticizing him like he used to, because "he's George Lucas" and that's a shame.
I have faith that someone can do well on his properties, but its not gonna be solo Lucas. At least not if he's given free reign in everything. I mean, look at Empire Strikes Back for example, different director, lots of other people working and checking against each other
He's made some of the best movies I've ever seen- but I think he's trying to do too much on his own. I was never personally offended by him or his newest movies, they were just a disappointment. I get the feeling the guy doesn't have many people criticizing him like he used to, because "he's George Lucas" and that's a shame.
I have faith that someone can do well on his properties, but its not gonna be solo Lucas. At least not if he's given free reign in everything. I mean, look at Empire Strikes Back for example, different director, lots of other people working and checking against each other
Of course, virtually ALL of the hate can be summed up with one word: Expectations.
It was close to two decades in between the two trilogies, and the original's popularity skyrocketed it to near-deification by the masses. Of course nothing is going to be better or even as good if you partake in such intense fandom.
True, many here dislike the prequels because they had noticeably weaker acting, writing, and characters. But take another look back at the originals. Can you really call the dialog and acting between Han and Leia in Empire so much better?(I facepalm every time I hear "nerf herder") Can you really call Boba Fett so badass when he was dumb enough to jump right in front of Luke when he had his saber out then get knocked into the Sarlaac pit by a blind man? Can you really call the Ewoks less irksome than the Gungans? I suppose its a trade-off there, you exchange plausible military weapons with the ability to speak human language(but in a very silly way).
Regarding Indiana Jones and nuked fridge/aliens, I'd like to say its no less feasible than having ghosts come out of an ancient religious object, turn to demons and melt people's faces off, nor a man chanting some words and sucking a complete heart out through a solid ribcage, nor a knight waiting, what, 800 years in the same room for someone to find him?
I enjoy all of the Star Wars and Indiana Jones movies, but if those same old movies were first released today, I'm sure there would be plenty of people saying that Star Wars jumped the shark after Luke fell so far down after getting his hand cut off and a solid metal tube softly broke his fall. Or how about when Indy, Short Round, and the dumb bimbo from Temple survived TWO free falls on an inflatable raft? Just enjoy the movies for what you can. If you can't enjoy it, fine, but I hope you remember that its JUST A MOVIE.
If I may quote James Rolfe, the Angry Video Game Nerd, at the end of his "10 Dumbest Indiana Jones Moments" video:
"Today, audiences are far more critical, have less imagination, and aren't as willing to suspend their disbelief. And THAT is the death of cinema."
It was close to two decades in between the two trilogies, and the original's popularity skyrocketed it to near-deification by the masses. Of course nothing is going to be better or even as good if you partake in such intense fandom.
True, many here dislike the prequels because they had noticeably weaker acting, writing, and characters. But take another look back at the originals. Can you really call the dialog and acting between Han and Leia in Empire so much better?(I facepalm every time I hear "nerf herder") Can you really call Boba Fett so badass when he was dumb enough to jump right in front of Luke when he had his saber out then get knocked into the Sarlaac pit by a blind man? Can you really call the Ewoks less irksome than the Gungans? I suppose its a trade-off there, you exchange plausible military weapons with the ability to speak human language(but in a very silly way).
Regarding Indiana Jones and nuked fridge/aliens, I'd like to say its no less feasible than having ghosts come out of an ancient religious object, turn to demons and melt people's faces off, nor a man chanting some words and sucking a complete heart out through a solid ribcage, nor a knight waiting, what, 800 years in the same room for someone to find him?
I enjoy all of the Star Wars and Indiana Jones movies, but if those same old movies were first released today, I'm sure there would be plenty of people saying that Star Wars jumped the shark after Luke fell so far down after getting his hand cut off and a solid metal tube softly broke his fall. Or how about when Indy, Short Round, and the dumb bimbo from Temple survived TWO free falls on an inflatable raft? Just enjoy the movies for what you can. If you can't enjoy it, fine, but I hope you remember that its JUST A MOVIE.
If I may quote James Rolfe, the Angry Video Game Nerd, at the end of his "10 Dumbest Indiana Jones Moments" video:
"Today, audiences are far more critical, have less imagination, and aren't as willing to suspend their disbelief. And THAT is the death of cinema."
Ok, we can agree how bad it was. He was in financial trouble (Splinter of the Minds Eye was written to be a possible sequel). But he DID NOT need the money from the special. A New Hope is one of the highest grossing movies of all time. The Holiday Special came out a year and a half later, when A New Hope had already made hundreds of millions of dollars.Sovvolf said:
this AND combine it with the fact that lucas has a fetishistic devotion to that technology over everything else.Distorted Stu said:
and no i will not forget or forgive - the prequels were a tragedy. the man took a big dump on my childhood with those "movies". they started out bad -- the scrolling text in the first prequel had to do with taxes and shipping lanes (i guess adult diapers was already taken).
and after that, it just got worse.
lucas WAS a visionary in 1977. he set that all aside when he thought that computer rendered images could replace any depth of character, story or motivation.
I've already forgiven George Lucas a long time ago. Yes, the orginal trilogy was far better than the prequel trilogy, but in my opinion it wasn't that bad, and neither were the special editions of the orginal trilogy. I hated Jar Jar Binks and thought Hayden Christensen's overacting was terrible as much as the other guy, but the prequel had plenty of great stuff in it. As for midi-chrlorians, they were to act as a kind of medium between force sensitives and the Force itself. Sort of like in the orginal Fullmetal Alchemist anime, when in the final episodes Edward is told by his father the deaths of those who died in our Earth act as the medium to be used as energy whenever someone uses alchemy in Edward's world. Midi-chrlorians act as that medium, while the Force itself is seperate and supernatural from midi-chrlorians and force sensitives. As for Greedo shot first, I could care less about that as it didn't ruin it for me with the orginal movies. Yes, it was stupid, but it doesn't take away the majority of awesomeness in the orginal trilogy. A lot of people simply just don't understand a lot about the Star Wars mythos because the majority of them had only watched the movies. The majority of them had never played the video games, read the novels, or read the comics. There's a difference between being a fan of the Star Wars films, and being a fan of the Star Wars universe itself. The prequel trilogy without a doubt was more geared towards fans of the Star Wars universe, therefore fans of the orginal trilogy felt betrayed with stuff they didn't understand. MovieBob, you also make a good point of all that Lucas has contributed outside the film industry, and that was also great and needed to be said. That, and I think the Star Wars cartoons on Cartoon Network are good.
Yes but George at this point was more focused on making a trilogy. Sure George could have just kept the money and lived a comfortable life, however we would not have TESB or ROTJ as a result. TESB was actually paid for out of Georges own pocket, the money from the first movie also went into creating Skywalker ranch for the Special effects and filming (and thus PIXAR was born as a result of this). George needed all the money he could get to finish TESB.Scde2 said:
The saddest part is the that lots of these guys really have nothing outside of ranting and meticulous worship of things like Star Wars. Geek culture sucks in the fact that everyone thinks they own something because they watched or read it and now even the director and owners are not allowed to touch it.
No. He will make an excellent wall decoration.
http://thestuff.nakatomiinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/george-lucas.jpg
http://thestuff.nakatomiinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/george-lucas.jpg
Good article, but I don't get it. This might be because I didn't really care for Star Wars in the first place. Back to the Future is maybe my equivalent, and why I be seeing Hot Tub Time Machine for its nod to it.
Its a movie(any Star Wars), sure it good when it comes to quality, but it isn't much more then that. People make good movies, people make bad movies. Just how it goes, no matter what you do good in you're bound to make mistakes. Some see the prequels as bad, some see it as good. Hell when the third one came out I was able to keep up in conversations about seeing it without seeing it was how predictable they were.
Brutal Legend for any faults in it, it still one of the best games ever in my book. On paper that doesn't make much sense, but that is because of the fact it gives me everything I like in a game. Anything that is bad in the Star Wars series is that to someone else.
Its a movie(any Star Wars), sure it good when it comes to quality, but it isn't much more then that. People make good movies, people make bad movies. Just how it goes, no matter what you do good in you're bound to make mistakes. Some see the prequels as bad, some see it as good. Hell when the third one came out I was able to keep up in conversations about seeing it without seeing it was how predictable they were.
Brutal Legend for any faults in it, it still one of the best games ever in my book. On paper that doesn't make much sense, but that is because of the fact it gives me everything I like in a game. Anything that is bad in the Star Wars series is that to someone else.
This article was ruined by Jar Jar's ugly mug jumping out at my unprepared ass on page 2. Well, okay, not ruined but I didn't enjoy it as much as I would have without it. Goddamnit I hate Jar Jar...
I haven't yet but now that I found it online (with original commercials) I will soon...Scde2 said:
Episode 2 was horrible. But Episode 1 and 3 were fairly good. I am young enough to say Episode 1 was one of the movies I saw in my childhood, I even think it was the first scifi movie I ever saw, so I will always treasure it, just like older Star Wars fans treasure the original films. Also, and I just know God will kill a kitten for me saying this, but...
Jar-Jar Binks wasn't that bad.
in fairness to Lucas, while i love the original trilogy of Star Wars, i have to admit to myself that they were kinda naff. i mean, they're a hugely important cultural statement, etc etc. Having watched them as a very young age, the love is still, and shall always bethere, but its kinda like The Rocketeer: saw when i was a kid, loved it, bought it on dvd a year ago (im 22 now) and i had to cringe just a little bit. but i wont turn my back on it.
I also thought Phantom Menace was pretty good. JarJar Binks is not Lucas's greatest 'sin'(see the epilogue ending of Revenge of the Sith. Darth Vader was not ruined for me, he was merely shat upon) he's easily ignored in a movie that has the key ingredient for its franchise: a kick-ass climactic light-saber duel with epic music. And this leads me on to how i feel about George Lucas.
As MovieBob says, Lucas has done many great thing, Indiana Jones being top of my list (Raiders and Crusade only though). What annoys the hell of of me is that, for Indian Jones at least, he forgot the magic formula: Nazis and Biblical relics. While people might yell at me for being pro-formulaic, with everyone's favourite archaeologist, its necessary. Temple of Doom gets forgiven for being muck because its the middle child of a trilogy, and they are often really really not good. (Empire strikes back being an interesting exception to said trend). But to my mind it failed because it lacked Nazis and Biblical relics.
The big problem i had with Crystal Skull, apart from it being muck, having aliens and Shia leBouef, was disappointment. I was so sure Lucas would say to himself 'Right an Indiana Jones movie, break out the Nazi uniforms and someone get me a bible.' I even went so far as to dare to hope that he might have just read Robert Ludlum's the Holcroft Covenant and decided to rip of the whole Sonnenkinder bit (which i would have been totally ok with, provided he did it right.) I thought maybe after the backlash towards the Star Wars prequel he'd make a movie for the fans, not the fanboys (i cite yoda's lightsader duel in Clones as the worst example of fanboy pandering i have ever seen.) Alas that i was wrong. (Aliens?!?! Why, George, why?)
So, in conclusion, i wouldnt go so far as to say George Lucas raped my childhood. he just forgot all my birthdays after i hit puberty and never got me what i really wanted for christmas (Indy vs. Nazi's one last time.)
I also thought Phantom Menace was pretty good. JarJar Binks is not Lucas's greatest 'sin'(see the epilogue ending of Revenge of the Sith. Darth Vader was not ruined for me, he was merely shat upon) he's easily ignored in a movie that has the key ingredient for its franchise: a kick-ass climactic light-saber duel with epic music. And this leads me on to how i feel about George Lucas.
As MovieBob says, Lucas has done many great thing, Indiana Jones being top of my list (Raiders and Crusade only though). What annoys the hell of of me is that, for Indian Jones at least, he forgot the magic formula: Nazis and Biblical relics. While people might yell at me for being pro-formulaic, with everyone's favourite archaeologist, its necessary. Temple of Doom gets forgiven for being muck because its the middle child of a trilogy, and they are often really really not good. (Empire strikes back being an interesting exception to said trend). But to my mind it failed because it lacked Nazis and Biblical relics.
The big problem i had with Crystal Skull, apart from it being muck, having aliens and Shia leBouef, was disappointment. I was so sure Lucas would say to himself 'Right an Indiana Jones movie, break out the Nazi uniforms and someone get me a bible.' I even went so far as to dare to hope that he might have just read Robert Ludlum's the Holcroft Covenant and decided to rip of the whole Sonnenkinder bit (which i would have been totally ok with, provided he did it right.) I thought maybe after the backlash towards the Star Wars prequel he'd make a movie for the fans, not the fanboys (i cite yoda's lightsader duel in Clones as the worst example of fanboy pandering i have ever seen.) Alas that i was wrong. (Aliens?!?! Why, George, why?)
So, in conclusion, i wouldnt go so far as to say George Lucas raped my childhood. he just forgot all my birthdays after i hit puberty and never got me what i really wanted for christmas (Indy vs. Nazi's one last time.)
I feel the same way, I just watched the first trilogy as just a movie, sure it was awesome but I didn't follow the story like other people and follow it like a religion, so I kind of liked the prequelsdekkarax said: