Japanese Nier Hero was "Too Girly" for Americans

[Wicky_42]

How about a baby. Not enough games let you be a kickass baby.

Messiah begs to differ. Well, it was pretty poor, but you were playing as a little flying baby angel. Just sayin

 

[Akalistos]

I kind of find the uglyness in Bethesda's character models kind of refreshing myself. More 'real' less 'beer commercial'.

What is it with people wanting realistic FANTASY heroes?

Because the unrealistic ones have become clichéd?

OT: I think this could be perceived as rather patronising. I suppose their hearts are sort of in the right place, though it is a shame they went from one stereotype to another.

It all a question of taste. We like character like Conan: Strong, agile, battle hardened. On the other hand, i read a quote from a manga artist when i was in High School. He said that, Yes super heroes are Buff and great but we sorted to expect them to be able to do those extra-ordinary things. The contrast between power become greater when the character appear as a feeble young kid.

 

[The Fork of Truth]

Snip

What is it with people wanting realistic FANTASY heroes?

Because the unrealistic ones have become clichéd?

But....but....I LIKE this cliché!!!

That's entirely your opinion, I'm not saying I hate it (mainly because I don't play games with it in). I do wonder if we'll have a decade or so of realistic characters in games, then those games' sales will suffer and we'll go back to androgynous leads with infeasible weapons, skimpily-clad Elves and grunting barbarians.

 

[Yokai]

I find it quite hilarious that the team would lose heart if they didn't make a skinny, waiflike, feminine hero.

But it's really two sides of the same coin: The Squeenix side, with longhaired pretty boys, and the Epic Games side, with men with biceps large than their heads and testosterone-powered chainsaws. It's why I appreciate, say, Bethesda: characters in their games are reasonably proportioned and don't look anorexic or 'roided up.
They're still ugly as all hell though. Ah well.

I kind of find the uglyness in Bethesda's character models kind of refreshing myself. More 'real' less 'beer commercial'.

Very true. It is a welcome change, although one can't help but notice there isn't a single pretty girl in Cyrodiil.

 

[Cousin_IT]

that old guys got some serious man titties going in that pic.

Of course, as a European gamer, I'm more than willing to suspend my disbelief at the sight of a pensioner swinging a sword the size of a car, but when its a skinny kid I just can't play the game anymore.

 

[Akalistos]

So in the world of gaming today I can either play as a gritty ugly behemoth of a man drowning in violence and misery, or I could play as a bitter androgynous teenager. Is it too much to ask for some kind of third option?

Agreed. Can't we play as, you know, someone who's actually interesting?

Like, maybe, a gas-masked catlike alien? Heh heh heh. Not that i disagree - seriously, more options please.

They are some options. Look at Prince of Persia, Assassin Creed.

Or maybe I'm biased because they came from a hour ride from my home. GOOOO HOME TEAM!

 

[A random person]

Actually, that redesign for the west makes quite a lot of sense. They're pretty dead-on about how we react to perceived androgynous characters.

Is it just me, or is that chain of reasoning absolutely hilarious? Because I'm pretty sure it's hilarious - they're telling us that not making yet another massively over-effeminate pansy, just like they do in all their other games, would be so disheartening to the design team that it would make them miss their deadlines.

Oh Japan, your obsession with men that are indistinguishable from women will never cease to amuse and befuddle me.

See my point?

This is why I like Nathan Drake. Besides personality, which I don't find to be annoying, he's a good alternative to the Japanese obsession with androgyny or a horde of guys built like Marcus Fenix. I wish more games would have the sort of everyman look for their characters instead of these two extremes.

This, though, is a good point (though not the best example, imo). I'd like a game where the character is rather bulky and hairy (games where you design the character don't count), but not 'roid-raging "grr, chainsaw everything!" Partly because I'm on the bulkier, hairier end of things myself.

 

[boholikeu]

Anyone else find it ironic that the designers would apparently "lose their passion for the game" if they weren't allowed to make the bishonen cliche? And that for once it was the suits that were pushing for a somewhat original character (yes, he's a bit of a Western muscle-bound stereotype, but he's also old and a father. How many other JRPGs have a protagonist like that?).

 

[Truly-A-Lie]

This is why I like Nathan Drake. Besides personality, which I don't find to be annoying, he's a good alternative to the Japanese obsession with androgyny or a horde of guys built like Marcus Fenix. I wish more games would have the sort of everyman look for their characters instead of these two extremes.

This, though, is a good point (though not the best example, imo). I'd like a game where the character is rather bulky and hairy (games where you design the character don't count), but not 'roid-raging "grr, chainsaw everything!" Partly because I'm on the bulkier, hairier end of things myself.

Like Eddie Riggs from Brutal Legend?

 

[kickyourass]

If we were able to endure (And in some cases enjoy) the legions of other androginous JRPG men why would they change this one? The main target audience for JRPGs want the men to be hard to identify amoung the women.

 

[Cod of War]

*cough Cloud could have wielded that sword cough*

I don't mind having a Bishonen male lead they had for the final fantasy games.

I agree, The Bishonen path seemed to have worked for every final fantasy they made, why change it up just for an American Viewpoint.

However, I did like the idea of a father/daughter relationship. Seems like a nice change up from the normal stuff.

Does the Japanese ps3 version with the bishonen Nier still have the father/daughter relationship?

Brother/Sister, American Nier is Japan's answer to TAKEN

Also, for once I would like to play as a burlesque body building female who fights bad guys and searches for true love. It would be hilarious.

 

[DividedUnity]

Better yet why not make the girly character an actual girl instead of misleading people?

 

[A random person]

This is why I like Nathan Drake. Besides personality, which I don't find to be annoying, he's a good alternative to the Japanese obsession with androgyny or a horde of guys built like Marcus Fenix. I wish more games would have the sort of everyman look for their characters instead of these two extremes.

This, though, is a good point (though not the best example, imo). I'd like a game where the character is rather bulky and hairy (games where you design the character don't count), but not 'roid-raging "grr, chainsaw everything!" Partly because I'm on the bulkier, hairier end of things myself.

Like Eddie Riggs from Brutal Legend?

Better example, yes. I'll admit I was thinking in terms of games with (semi-)realistic art styles, though I prefer my games stylized.

 

[D_987]

It wouldn't be the FIRST time they've acted like a bunch of big children, that's for certain. "Making towns would've been too hard!" Meanwhile Ubisoft goes and makes ALL OF FLORENCE and Bioware releases two entire Mass Effect games in the time it takes them to make FF13, whose environments are BARELY above Playstation 2 quality--all because they couldn't be bothered to learn a better development pipeline like the rest of the gaming world. Square needs to quit whining to the world about their games, act like adults, and do their fucking jobs.

You should probably look up who developed the game...it wasn't Square-Enix. Anywho, Final Fantasy XIIII does have a few cities - just not in the conventional type, and not the type that would serve the gameplay any favours.

And I really hope you're joking about Final Fantasy XIII's environments being "PS2-like"...

 

[Akalistos]

Am I the only one who just thinks that they both look terrible?

Wow. when did gamers become so homophobic? 'He looks like a girl!'. Sheesh. Grow the heck up. And the irony is that these people only want the 'manly man' because of how big they imagine his **** to be.

Hi. Yeah, gay here. I think the character design looks pretty fucking shit. Nothing homophobic about it.

It a meme [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meme]: That mean that no matter what you say UberNoodle (who come from Japan according to his profile) has a different definition of masculinity than that the Americans. Nothing you said can shake that foundation Sebenko. They would prefer Naruto to Batman any days of the week. Naturally, I don't like Androgynous character myself either but changing the character for monetary reasons is kinda like them saying:"Here, You dumb fools. You got your machos buff turd, now buy our game!"

I'm strait, by the ways, and i don't like either design.

 

[bulbasaur765]

Better yet why not make the girly character an actual girl instead of misleading people?

Because the main demographic is males.

 

[UberNoodle]

I'm almost offended that they think we wouldn't accept a non-macho main character. Granted roid rage badassery does tend to move games very well here in the states, but still it almost comes as a smack in the face. Like they're saying we're not cultured enough to appreciate the less macho character wielding a sword 3 times his size.....no wait...they're right on that one. Just thinking about the sword to body type ratio this game could have had makes me not want to play it, not like I really wanted to play it to begin with mind you.

I guess you don't read gaming boards enough ...

So many threatened kids ranting about some slender (usually hetro) game characters as 'teh gay', while worshipping anything fueled by pure testosterone.

The real problem here is that despite the change, the game itself isn't that good. I have nothing at all against how a character looks. If he's a he or a she or a whatever. If he's bulging everywhere a 15 year old pays money to see, or if he's wearing designer hero rags and sporting spikey hair - I don't care, unless the character itself isn't good. And at least the latter type is a heck of a lot more visually creative than some guy with a buzzcut in military fatigues.

That said, the characters themselves in the 360 Nier aren't particularly stimulating. It has nothing to do with 'macho' looks or the lack of them. They pretty much channel what has been done before, even the foul mouthed neglige one or the talking book. In this case, Sam Fisher or Nathan Drake are much more interesting, but it has to do with their depth as characters and not their manly swaggers and physiques.

 

[Cod of War]

CAPCOM & KONAMI always had the right idea. REGULAR PEOPLE ARE AWESOME.

 

[Akalistos]

Better yet why not make the girly character an actual girl instead of misleading people?

Good point. Also, why not let a real women write her so she don't turn into a cliché macho women that want to kill anything with the wrong genders.
No, that not sarcasm. Here a exemple.

Here, Laura is just friendly.
Now, she reach for her pistol with her left hand. What the hell!