More like the bulk of emotion in Final Fantasy 7, if you play 9, 5 or 6 you'll see how they can be incredibly lighthearted while still being emotional.Low Key said:
Japanese RPGs Need to Change, Says Final Fantasy Creator
- Thread starter Logan Westbrook
- Start date
It's very unsettling to me that it's become a habit for the Western audience of the video game spectrum to so quickly dismiss JRPGs as a whole. Siting facts, albeit true, that they suffer a terrible case of androgynous males who look they got dressed in the dark and the fact that turn based combat simply has no place in today's market.
While the former is true I find it difficult to grasp exactly what has become so outdated about turn based combat. The system itself is not inherently broken and there are ways to incorporate fresh ideas into it.. like any other genre of course. For me it comes down to one simple thing, impatience.
Today's gamer is more than not hostile towards any form of CS that takes control away from them or the idea that they have to wait a second or two for a transition screen to take them to the designated battlefield.
I could go on all day about the gamer today.. but I won't, for your sake! So allow me to sum up my thoughts. JRPGs "don't work" because the average gamer is uncomfortable with the idea of anything other than death and destruction. Realism owns all... Where you worry every time Vanille comes on screen because you fear your friends or family will walk in the door and call you gay after hearing her ungodly voice for even one second. Waiting is simply unacceptable!
By the way to the person who posted the picture with all of those western video game protagonists I loved it. People love to bash JRPGs but at the same time accept every characters meatier than life body build in GoW..
While the former is true I find it difficult to grasp exactly what has become so outdated about turn based combat. The system itself is not inherently broken and there are ways to incorporate fresh ideas into it.. like any other genre of course. For me it comes down to one simple thing, impatience.
Today's gamer is more than not hostile towards any form of CS that takes control away from them or the idea that they have to wait a second or two for a transition screen to take them to the designated battlefield.
I could go on all day about the gamer today.. but I won't, for your sake! So allow me to sum up my thoughts. JRPGs "don't work" because the average gamer is uncomfortable with the idea of anything other than death and destruction. Realism owns all... Where you worry every time Vanille comes on screen because you fear your friends or family will walk in the door and call you gay after hearing her ungodly voice for even one second. Waiting is simply unacceptable!
By the way to the person who posted the picture with all of those western video game protagonists I loved it. People love to bash JRPGs but at the same time accept every characters meatier than life body build in GoW..
I notice they didn't quote Tetsua Takahashi who I am not aware of ever being quoted as saying Japanese RPG games were behind Western RPG's in any way, but the guy has stated Japanese companies need to be more innovative in the game play and stories of RPG games for a very long time. And considering he lead the exodus of developers from Squaresoft due to them refusing to work on an RPG series other than Final Fantasy, it wouldn't be unthinkable for him to ridicule Japanese game companies like Square-Enix for being a little too old fashion.
Tetsua Takahashi's latest game, Xenoblade, looks like a lot more like a Western RPG. And it's success in Japan has brought a lot of press suggesting that maybe more Japanese companies should make more single party / no battle mode western like RPG's. Still, coming from Tetsua Takahashi I expect to find Xenoblade more of an attempt to innovate in the rather repetitive genre of western RPG games have fallen into. And if there is a Japanese game developer out there who could look at western RPG's and say to himself: "I can do this better than the west," and then actually manage to pull it off, it's Tetsua Takahashi.
I think the greatest strength to JRPG games is that the genre allows for the most amount of innovation in the game play mechanics. And there was a time when RPG's couldn't get away with having similar battle systems, plots, or settings. Yet in recent years, the vast majority of all RPG games have relied on providing people with the same exact game play experience, and with plots that could be considered interchangeable.
This seems to be a common complaint in video games lately, with the high number of sequel titles still coming out. And while Final Fantasy is certainly the poster-child of long running series, it has changed with each iteration following a natural progression in the battle system that servers to remind us that evolution isn't always progressing to an improvement. And on the other side of the fence WOW's expansion packs have done the same. Still, they aren't taking that innovation far enough! Bosses can be taken down using the same methods. Teams of attackers, tanks, and DH's (Designated Healer) are still formation that always works. And focus on letting players do everything, has caused developers to abandon the importance in what options you prevent players from doing to force them to make interesting choices.
We can do better, and any developer of RPG games in this climate who doesn't think they should try to do better that the status quo needs to give their job to someone that does.
Tetsua Takahashi's latest game, Xenoblade, looks like a lot more like a Western RPG. And it's success in Japan has brought a lot of press suggesting that maybe more Japanese companies should make more single party / no battle mode western like RPG's. Still, coming from Tetsua Takahashi I expect to find Xenoblade more of an attempt to innovate in the rather repetitive genre of western RPG games have fallen into. And if there is a Japanese game developer out there who could look at western RPG's and say to himself: "I can do this better than the west," and then actually manage to pull it off, it's Tetsua Takahashi.
I think the greatest strength to JRPG games is that the genre allows for the most amount of innovation in the game play mechanics. And there was a time when RPG's couldn't get away with having similar battle systems, plots, or settings. Yet in recent years, the vast majority of all RPG games have relied on providing people with the same exact game play experience, and with plots that could be considered interchangeable.
This seems to be a common complaint in video games lately, with the high number of sequel titles still coming out. And while Final Fantasy is certainly the poster-child of long running series, it has changed with each iteration following a natural progression in the battle system that servers to remind us that evolution isn't always progressing to an improvement. And on the other side of the fence WOW's expansion packs have done the same. Still, they aren't taking that innovation far enough! Bosses can be taken down using the same methods. Teams of attackers, tanks, and DH's (Designated Healer) are still formation that always works. And focus on letting players do everything, has caused developers to abandon the importance in what options you prevent players from doing to force them to make interesting choices.
We can do better, and any developer of RPG games in this climate who doesn't think they should try to do better that the status quo needs to give their job to someone that does.
FF VII has good writing? Alpha Protocol has bad writing? What kind of Bizarro World do you live in? And as I said in my earlier posts, mediocre plots are okay if they aren't keeping gameplay systems from an era where computers couldn't handle much more than turn based fighting. If the story or gameplay are good, they can make up for the other one being mediocre, but if they're both stale, what's the point of the game?Aiddon said:
I check out a video game stream and they did all the leg work for me. All three of the other FF games you mention, they have streamed.LeonLethality said:
But to summarize what I told Blitzwing earlier, it's not that I think FF games are all like the cartoon I linked. I feel that most FF games are overly dramatic in whatever they happen to be emoting at the time. More emotion will only exacerbate that. Nahmean? However, 5 and 6 were actually pretty decent for the most part, though I'll always be a Tactics person.
I don't mind turn based combat. But exaggerated physical features (or lack thereof like noses), androgynous men, and in my experience, horrible HORRIBLE user interfaces are problems in most Japanese games. Or striking contrasts in quality in the same scenes. Such as the ones that are going for a sex appeal deal, a female model will be extremely high detailed while other characters in the scene will be obviously far less detailed.
The only game that has the same kind of insane combat that I love in JRPGs that is done in Real Time is Bayonetta. I don't know how you would be able to house all that chaos without a Turn Based system.TheDoomPenguin said:
Think of Chrono Trigger in real time with all its top tier spells (Flare, Luminere, Dark Matter etc.) being processed in 3D. I don't know if many gamers would be able to get a handle on all of that. I would really enjoy it and once again Cross Edge is a game that tries to go in that direction. But I think it would still be just as alienating if not more than turn Based.
Miss that general trend online? Obviously, it is alienating for some gamers. I am not one OF those gamers. Given your response I would venture a guess that you're not either.Noctis_XZ said:
I am going on the presumption that if all the action occurred in real time it would have much the same effects. IF the action stayed true to the earlier games of the genre. If you keep the crazy Over the Top Spells and Summons and it goes full real time its going to be a gigantic chaotic Cluster Fuck.
I like Chaos... But I have read plenty of reviews for games that basically say the game is too frantic and therefore too difficult.
As do I! Who doesn't love a bit of chaos every now and than? It's just that I've grown rather tired when it comes to the discussion of why JRPGs just don't work anymore and why the Western audience aren't very fond of them. A find it has more to do with people just not liking the genre and the idea that action doesn't occur every second of every moment.. with an explosion or car/plane/boat chase taking place every other hour or two.
I'm all for discussing problems within the genre and admitting what doesn't work and what does but most discussions on the matter are about how unrealistic and gay looking the characters look. Not to mention it drives me bonkers when I hear a gaming site or reviewer call the turn based system archaic! There is absolutely nothing wrong with it fundamentally if used correctly.
I just don't see what's so alienating about JRPGs.. the good ones, the ones that don't have insane menus to navigate just to save the game or equip a weapon. To be rather honest.. I think the general IQ of the gaming population has dropped a few points over the years.
By the way.. what was so difficult to grasp about the story in FFXIII? I hear this brought up a lot on forums and in reviews. You can gain a perfectly good understanding of the story if you just actually LISTENED and WATCHED the cutscenes.. but now a days that's to much to ask
I'm all for discussing problems within the genre and admitting what doesn't work and what does but most discussions on the matter are about how unrealistic and gay looking the characters look. Not to mention it drives me bonkers when I hear a gaming site or reviewer call the turn based system archaic! There is absolutely nothing wrong with it fundamentally if used correctly.
I just don't see what's so alienating about JRPGs.. the good ones, the ones that don't have insane menus to navigate just to save the game or equip a weapon. To be rather honest.. I think the general IQ of the gaming population has dropped a few points over the years.
By the way.. what was so difficult to grasp about the story in FFXIII? I hear this brought up a lot on forums and in reviews. You can gain a perfectly good understanding of the story if you just actually LISTENED and WATCHED the cutscenes.. but now a days that's to much to ask
If JRPGs are full of emo, angsty teenagers, then western games are full of gritty, muscle-bound men's men.
Both cultures have a formula they adhere to, don't treat it like only the Japanese do so.
Both cultures have a formula they adhere to, don't treat it like only the Japanese do so.
I would love to play a JRPG - if they would just get rid of two things: turn based combat and their infinite inventories. They would also need to tone down the repetitive nature of having to fight infinite battles just to advance to the next areas safely.
I've always liked the epic stories, the characters & the environments. I like being able to combine stuff to make new gear, but new JRPG inventories are so frickin huge they don't border on the absurd, they are absurd incarnate.
I've always liked the epic stories, the characters & the environments. I like being able to combine stuff to make new gear, but new JRPG inventories are so frickin huge they don't border on the absurd, they are absurd incarnate.
I'll second that. The pot definitely has a good time calling the kettle black. The Last Story looks promising though.. I can't say I agree with the name though, despite not giving a damn what a game is called if it plays well, because.. and mark my words. In the future someone will come up with a smart ass name for it alluding to Final Fantasy and say it's exactly like it just because it's in the same genreSanguineSymphony said:
I am huge David Lynch fan. I went to bed watching Begotten. Me and My wife's favorite films to watch together are Visitor Q, Stacy and Cemetery Man.Skratt said:
Some people like Absurd.