Jimquisition: Accepting the Isms

[Mr F.]

An Academic (Anita being one. She lectures at Universities occasionally, etc etc) would not sacrifice her entire career over something as small as 150k. One and a half million? Maybe. You could live on that for quite some time and with shrewd investments may never have to work again. But 150k, not even enough to buy a decent house? Really?

I don't think that's a fair definition of an academic. If she was funded by an academic funding council she wouldn't have needed the kickstarter.

Have you ever MET an academic?

Academics are poor. Funding is shite. Sure, some people do well. But for every Brian Cox there are ten people going "Well, I can buy new shoes next week, better to have wet feet then no food or books". I would define someone who researches and lectures at Universities to be an Academic.

I might go into Academia myself after Uni.

Yes someone who researches and lecture at a University, not a "guest speaker".

Have I MET an academic? I've met hundreds, I'm a few months away from being an academic.

Sister (PhD), sisters bloke (PhD) parents (MA's, from the time when you didn't need a PhD to do conference tours or end up a visiting professor) so yes. In my immediate family there are four. Plus I take part in a lot of Psychological research, just cause and end up chatting to a lot of the dudes who are doing it. And, as I am a Uni student (As mentioned) I meet them a lot, what with the whole "Talking to my lecturers if they have the time" thing.

Swing and a miss.

I see "No true Scotsman" being applied here. She is not enough of an academic for you because reasons. I suppose my father was an academic until he stopped lecturing to do research and write a book, then he became one again once he began lecturing. And my mother is not an academic whilst being a guest speaker, but she is whilst she is back on Campus?

I still hold that abandoning her career for 150,000 dollars is pretty fucking stupid and that those who think that someone would do so for such a paltry sum need their heads examined.

May I ask what you are currently doing research in? As in, what is your field?

 

[wizzy555]

May I ask what you are currently doing research in? As in, what is your field?

Let's just say I've spent more time doing particle physics research in the last two years than Brian Cox has.

I see "No true Scotsman" being applied here. She is not enough of an academic for you because reasons. I suppose my father was an academic until he stopped lecturing to do research and write a book, then he became one again once he began lecturing. And my mother is not an academic whilst being a guest speaker, but she is whilst she is back on Campus?

I don't consider every blogger or activist to be an academic even if they have a degree and guest speak at Universities (you can be invited to speak for being nothing more than popular or controversial). If you get paid to do research, or you get published in academic journals, that's fair I think.

 

[Mr F.]

May I ask what you are currently doing research in? As in, what is your field?

Let's just say I've spent more time doing particle physics research in the last two years than Brian Cox has.

I see "No true Scotsman" being applied here. She is not enough of an academic for you because reasons. I suppose my father was an academic until he stopped lecturing to do research and write a book, then he became one again once he began lecturing. And my mother is not an academic whilst being a guest speaker, but she is whilst she is back on Campus?

I don't consider every blogger or activist to be an academic even if they have a degree and guest speak at Universities (you can be invited to speak for being nothing more than popular or controversial). If you get paid to do research, or you get published in academic journals, that's fair I think.

If you have a degree, lecture and do research that is pretty much the definition of Academic, in my eyes at least. But I will concede that you are not quite there yet until you have been published in a journal. That said, whether she is or is not an academic in your eyes (Or mine) does not detract from my original point re: She is not a scam artist, nobody would throw away their career for not even enough to buy a house.

Even though getting paid to do something is the definition of professional, I disagree that it should be considered a pre-requisite to being referred to as an Academic. I don't like the idea of everything being centered on the money, if you bring cash into it it indicates that the academic with the biggest pay check is the most important.

 

[wizzy555]

Even though getting paid to do something is the definition of professional, I disagree that it should be considered a pre-requisite to being referred to as an Academic. I don't like the idea of everything being centered on the money, if you bring cash into it it indicates that the academic with the biggest pay check is the most important.

I'm more concerned that someone official has decided that your work is of any academic worth.

In regard to is it worth throwing away her career, I don't know what her career potential is or if in fact doing what she does would get her chucked out of academia.

For instance, my contract says I can't take another job while I'm working full time on research, I dunno if crowd-sourcing would count.

 

[AdrianRK]

Dude, people hate Anita not because she's criticising video games, but because she's a con artist.
Her videos are so enlightening that they can be summarised simply by two phrases "Sex sales" and "Companies make targeted products" That's it! She was very efficient in stirring up the trolls just to make her case and to convince a bunch of self riches gamers to give her money so they can pat themselves on the back on how progressive and caring they are.

People who took her seriously are just as superficial as her videos are...

But that's beside the point. You, just like many other similar minded people, like to lump as gamers all together in one group regardless of age. You do realise that gamers are people with ages varying from 13 to 40, right? and that adolescent boys are in general very aggressive, gynophobic and don't take criticism very well because they don't have any life experience, right?

I'm pretty sure that if you take any group of gamers at ages above 30 that you'll never find a single gynophobic or sexist opinion.

Man, I miss being young. I wish I was as young as you.

Because judging from your own logic, you must be about 12.

Look, I cannot believe I have to say this. Its clear to just about anyone.

An Academic (Anita being one. She lectures at Universities occasionally, etc etc) would not sacrifice her entire career over something as small as 150k. One and a half million? Maybe. You could live on that for quite some time and with shrewd investments may never have to work again. But 150k, not even enough to buy a decent house? Really?

Also, I love how you have somehow indicated that sexism stops at age 30. I would like you to meet my father at some point. Or some of the over 30's gamers that I know.

Oh, and as for her videos?

The breakdown on Lego and its shift from gender neutral products over to incredibly gendered and incredibly sexist products is one that went under a hell of a lot of radars. Her video on it predates most of the media attention it gathered and is quite the deconstruction. I, for one, found it rather informative. Yes, you can very simplistically break down most of her arguments to what you broke down most of her arguments to, but you can break down most international relations to "Countries don't like each other much and fight about it, or don't and trade stuff". Just because you can turn an argument into a more simplistic form, one which you can understand with your aforementioned 12 year old brain (Just making a link to your own post, friend), does not mean that the argument itself is simplistic or without merit.
OT:

I agree with Jim. I think its about time we can seriously discuss some of the issues with our beloved art form without a sudden tide of hatred based upon our judgments being more than gameplay related.

Ah.. the good old days of typical internet flame wars, where you personally attack people you don?t know a thing about when you have nothing to say but you're bothered by their opinion

But onto the more serious part of your reply, I do think it's about time we talked about more serious things regarding our favourite pastime activity, like the fact that the people reviewing games get their money from the people making them, of the fact that a most of the game reviews are barely more than opinion pieces

 

[JudgeGame]

So we've established it has sex appeal.

Is it that much of a logical stretch to see the relation between sex appeal and violence against a female body and notice the symbolic association with sexual violence against women. You know, that thing that is talked about on the news and is a serious problem in practically every country on the planet.

Like Jim said, I just refuse to believe anybody with human intelligence and not completely ignorant of society could fail to understand why, to people who care about violence against women, this is pretty offensive, in bad taste and morally horrifying.

That interpretation is yours. If you want to be offended, be offended by what people mean. Not by the meaning you put in it. It's horror, it's in the name. It's aware it's wrong.

Contrary to popular belief most victims of violence are men. Yet we don't raise a stink about every depiction of violence in the media.

And really, you don't even have to look at it from the female perspective. If instead of a woman's tits, it were an erect cock, bloodied at the base, a lot of people would find that really offensive and they would feel scared of anybody who bought that, and in that list of people who would be offended would be me.

http://laughingsquid.com/wesker-son-a-resident-evil-6-butcher-shop-featuring-edible-humans/

Scroll down. (Warning: gruesome)

I don't remember any outrage.

There is no implication of violence in those meat products. It's just meat shaped like human bodies. Further more, there are both bodies of women and bodies of men among the products. There is even some black meat, so I can't even call it racist.

 

[Jinxey]

Remember kiddies! Jims opinions does not apply to theISM!

Jim gives backhanded disses to religion twice alone in this review! So yeah, don't be close minded to anybodies opinions and when they cry foul!...except religion....fuck those guys...

/rolleyes.

 

[danon]

Skyrim which is set in a middle ages setting has sexist elements in it. Apparently it's sexist to depict the world as it is now. Well people just shout sexist about everything now without thinking so it's not surprising.

 

[Mr F.]

Dude, people hate Anita not because she's criticising video games, but because she's a con artist.
Her videos are so enlightening that they can be summarised simply by two phrases "Sex sales" and "Companies make targeted products" That's it! She was very efficient in stirring up the trolls just to make her case and to convince a bunch of self riches gamers to give her money so they can pat themselves on the back on how progressive and caring they are.

People who took her seriously are just as superficial as her videos are...

But that's beside the point. You, just like many other similar minded people, like to lump as gamers all together in one group regardless of age. You do realise that gamers are people with ages varying from 13 to 40, right? and that adolescent boys are in general very aggressive, gynophobic and don't take criticism very well because they don't have any life experience, right?

I'm pretty sure that if you take any group of gamers at ages above 30 that you'll never find a single gynophobic or sexist opinion.

Man, I miss being young. I wish I was as young as you.

Because judging from your own logic, you must be about 12.

Look, I cannot believe I have to say this. Its clear to just about anyone.

An Academic (Anita being one. She lectures at Universities occasionally, etc etc) would not sacrifice her entire career over something as small as 150k. One and a half million? Maybe. You could live on that for quite some time and with shrewd investments may never have to work again. But 150k, not even enough to buy a decent house? Really?

Also, I love how you have somehow indicated that sexism stops at age 30. I would like you to meet my father at some point. Or some of the over 30's gamers that I know.

Oh, and as for her videos?

The breakdown on Lego and its shift from gender neutral products over to incredibly gendered and incredibly sexist products is one that went under a hell of a lot of radars. Her video on it predates most of the media attention it gathered and is quite the deconstruction. I, for one, found it rather informative. Yes, you can very simplistically break down most of her arguments to what you broke down most of her arguments to, but you can break down most international relations to "Countries don't like each other much and fight about it, or don't and trade stuff". Just because you can turn an argument into a more simplistic form, one which you can understand with your aforementioned 12 year old brain (Just making a link to your own post, friend), does not mean that the argument itself is simplistic or without merit.
OT:

I agree with Jim. I think its about time we can seriously discuss some of the issues with our beloved art form without a sudden tide of hatred based upon our judgments being more than gameplay related.

Ah.. the good old days of typical internet flame wars, where you personally attack people you don?t know a thing about when you have nothing to say but you're bothered by their opinion

But onto the more serious part of your reply, I do think it's about time we talked about more serious things regarding our favourite pastime activity, like the fact that the people reviewing games get their money from the people making them, of the fact that a most of the game reviews are barely more than opinion pieces

But in your eyes the fact that women are shown in a negative light does not matter? Or perhaps the depictions of homosexuals etc, they dont matter? To a lesser degree these days the negative depictions of race within games, they dont matter?

In my eyes a bigger issue is within the very nature of the games we play. I do not really care about the reviewers or how they get paid, I take my advice from other gamers who share my interests, not internet celebutants. I do not bother buying or reading gaming magazines, bar this one, and the only "Reviewer" I follow whatsoever is Yahtzee who, at best, is an entertainer.

I am not necessarily bothered by your opinion. Just bits of it. The whole "Sarkeesian is going to throw away her credibility for a negligible payday" thing irritates me because I think it is based mainly on her having unpopular views and a vagina, a horrendous mixture with regards to the internet. That particular nugget is not necessarily aimed at you, just most people who share the opinion that she is nothing more then a scam artist who planned all of this in advance.

To me, a student of Sociology, Media and Cultural studies and Politics, issues of gender, sexuality and race within games are important and need to be discussed. They need to be discussed in a non insane manner, with people from both sides talking about this like adults. This website does make it hard, plenty of people simply do not think how women or LGBTQ customers feel simply does not matter.

However, I can understand why you think the issues of reviewing matter more. Lots of people do think that games should just be about games, that the only issues to be discussed are structural ones or ones that are to do with how games play and the stories they tell.

EDIT:

Skyrim which is set in a middle ages setting has sexist elements in it. Apparently it's sexist to depict the world as it is now. Well people just shout sexist about everything now without thinking so it's not surprising.

Or perhaps the fact that the world is quite sexist makes people call it out a lot more but due to your inability to see this you begin to think that people are calling out nothing?

Also, Skyrim is a fantasy game made in this current climate. There is absolutely no reason they could not have made it without the sexist quests. You cannot get away with it by saying its based in a different age so everything is ok. Seriously.

Plus if you read the crap around it the assumption is that men and women are treated equally in the Elder Scrolls universe, with both serving in the military etc etc. If it was based upon a medieval society, as you are claiming, then why the fuck is the captain at the start who sends you to the block a woman? Why the fuck do you ever see women in armour? Why the fuck is it equal on any level?

Strangely enough, if the game was truly based upon medieval societies and was depicted realistically, with men and women in the rolls they were forced into as a result of medieval society, the more sexist quests may have never been noticed. But since they created a supposedly gender equal universe and then added the sexist bullcrap from our own universe it is making a statement. Herp to the Derp.

Using the setting as a justification only makes sense if the setting is consistent.

 

[Thyunda]

On the Skyrim note, I'm not sure whether we can put that down to the game being sexist or down to the region of Skyrim itself being a sexist place. Though that would seem a little hypocritical, given that marriage in Skyrim is a trivial affair due to the short and harsh lives most Nords lead. Since long-term monogamy doesn't really befit the society, why on Earth is promiscuity a bad thing? If anything, the potential extra mouths produced by male promiscuity would be the reason for 'slut-shaming', and since no matter how many men a woman has sex with, she's unlikely to produce more than a single child in the space of a year, female promiscuity shouldn't be seen as a problem in the slightest.

Skyrim is a confusing place.

 

[danon]

Yeah it's quite sad that a company never can accurately depict a middle ages society in a game again because then people lose their shit. But yeah i agree with you with you that skyrim is half-assed and i'm kind of dissapointed by it. Guess they were kind of cowards and didn't go through with the full middle-ages setting.

 

[DanHibiki]

ooh... had no idea Movie Defense Force was with Jim. I skipped it before because I thought it had that idiot Bob doing it.

 

[cikame]

I don't see that Skyrim quest as being sexist against women, my problem comes when people do.

So from what i remember, the lady worships a god based around sex so that's what she does, these practices are frowned upon in the world of Skyrim, she has an employee who she works too hard and said employee wants you to harass her about it, as a form of payback for working her too hard.
So you show her proof that you know about her sex acts, she gets embarrased and begs you not to tell anyone and the employee is happy that you've brought her boss down a peg or two. The End.

There's nothing wrong there, hearing about someone having sex isn't sexist it's normal, at no point in the quest are you bribing the woman to give you a lap dance and sit on your face, and the game doesn't treat her as anything other than a person with a secret.

People being wrong and spawning arguments about it, is what makes me angry.

 

[JudgeGame]

Yeah it's quite sad that a company never can accurately depict a middle ages society in a game again because then people lose their shit. But yeah i agree with you with you that skyrim is half-assed and i'm kind of dissapointed by it. Guess they were kind of cowards and didn't go through with the full middle-ages setting.

Game of Thrones is a good example of how to depict a middle age setting in a way that is both realistic, extremely violent and morally ambiguous without falling into misogyny and racism.

 

[Paradoxrifts]

Accepting the Isms

Games are racist. Games are homophobic. Games are sexist. And that's okay!

Watch Video

With respect Mr Sterling, perhaps these are people you don't fully understand, either. Because for some people arguments such as these are to be won, no matter the cost, including damaging the very gaming experiences that they purport to care so much about.

I recommend that you never put yourself in the situation of being the last man in a sinking boat with an activist and their cause, because you will be the first thing they throw overboard in a tight pinch.

 

[danon]

Yeah it's quite sad that a company never can accurately depict a middle ages society in a game again because then people lose their shit. But yeah i agree with you with you that skyrim is half-assed and i'm kind of dissapointed by it. Guess they were kind of cowards and didn't go through with the full middle-ages setting.

Game of Thrones is a good example of how to depict a middle age setting in a way that is both realistic, extremely violent and morally ambiguous without falling into misogyny and racism.

A video game can't do that yet it needs to get out of this phase where people go insane when there are mature themes in a game. Books and movies and tv-series is over this phase for the most part. Think of what would happen if they tried to make a 50 shades of grey game. Yeah it would be the internet allcapsalypse.