Jimquisition: Accepting the Isms

[targren]

The US Supreme Court already ruled irrevocably that videogames are protected by the First Amendment to the same degree all media (films, newspapers...) are.
[link]http://learning.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/13/the-constitution-and-you-video-games-and-the-first-amendment/[/link]

Emphasis mine. Other media is regularly censored in this country, and you're ignoring the other inconvenient fact that, even if your idealism wasn't completely divorced from cold, hard reality, it would still be irrelevant to the gamers who don't live in the US.

 

[JudgeGame]

The US Supreme Court already ruled irrevocably that videogames are protected by the First Amendment to the same degree all media (films, newspapers...) are.
[link]http://learning.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/13/the-constitution-and-you-video-games-and-the-first-amendment/[/link]

Emphasis mine. Other media is regularly censored in this country, and you're ignoring the other inconvenient fact that, even if your idealism wasn't completely divorced from cold, hard reality, it would still be irrelevant to the gamers who don't live in the US.

I'd like to know what your definition of censorship is.

 

[JudgeGame]

Yeah it's quite sad that a company never can accurately depict a middle ages society in a game again because then people lose their shit. But yeah i agree with you with you that skyrim is half-assed and i'm kind of dissapointed by it. Guess they were kind of cowards and didn't go through with the full middle-ages setting.

It is not set in the middle ages. It is set on an alien planet in a fantasy land where dragons and zombies roam the world, and every other person has magical powers that allow them to shoot lightning bolts from their fingertips. And you think it was "cowardly" of them not to put rampant sexism in? Uhhh ... OK.

Personally, I like the way that Skyrim was written, and I'm glad it wasn't set in the middle ages. What's fun about the middle ages? A really accurate portrayal of the middle ages would have to include lots of disease and starvation and feudalist tyranny, and no talking dogs or giant crabs. You know what's fun? Dragons are fun. Shooting lightning from your fingertips is fun. Sheogorath is fun. And gender equality is fun.

As other people have said, the slut-shaming quest just feels out of place, because they took a sexist concept from our own universe and jammed it into a setting with a very different attitude towards gender and romance.

Don't forget the feces. Feces everywhere. Feces played a huge role in the middle ages.

 

[danon]

Yes because games need to be fun and can't be about serious issues in history.

 

[danon]

Sigh abandoning thread have your happy funland games where all is color and rainbows.

 

[Durgiun]

Well, Jimmy Boy, the reason why some people are a bit irked when people cry ''sexism'' over a video game is because there are a few that (either subconsciously or consciously) feel that they can't win against an accusation like that based upon the fact that the public has a bout of righteous indignation anytime they hear about a topic like that. And god knows, you cannot reason with someone who's a self-righteous and very angry scrotum. Case in Point She-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named's fans.

 

[Atmos Duality]

So, are you driving a really big penis to work?

And suddenly the term "Sex Drive" takes on a horrifying new meaning.

 

[JudgeGame]

Yes because games need to be fun and can't be about serious issues in history.

You mean like the hundreds of lives that were lost when the dragons returned? I think that is treated very seriously. I shed a little tear every time an NPC got roasted.

Let me try to make this clear: Skyrim is not a historical game. It's not. You can tell if you look closely: all the wizards and and cat people give it away. It borrows some of its language from Norse legend and everyone fights with bows and swords (and magic) instead of guns, but that's about as far as it goes in portraying the middle ages according to Earth.

I can't get over the fact that you're genuinely sulking because Skyrim isn't sexist enough.

Don't forget the feces. Feces everywhere. Feces played a huge role in the middle ages.

Oh god, don't say that. You'll set off an epidemic of Skyrim poo puns.

I'm tired of all these oversensitive nancies ruining games. I want shit in my RPGs! I want peasants flinging their own poo at me as a weapon. I want to jump over streams of piss and diarrhea flowing down a busy street. I want every inch of the screen to be the same colour of brown as a result of the shit that is smeared all over it.

It's time for these casuals to get lost and let us enjoy videogames as they deserve to be enjoyed. Unless we are prepared to explore mature themes in videogames, we will never be able to make true art and it will never be taken seriously.

 

[cassiebearRAWR]

What bothers me is how the kind of people you're describing who want to deny the presence of "-isms" in games are also usually the first ones to complain about how terrible shows like The Big Bang Theory (and other media) are and how offensive they are to geek culture. I certainly don't disagree with that sentiment, but it seems pretty self-centered and hypocritical to be so outraged at that, and then turn around and chastise us for trying to voice the same kinds of feelings for our issues.

And on a side note, as someone who identifies as a feminist, believe me: if I made a habit of avoiding every game that flirted with some sort of "-ism," about the only game I'd be playing is solitaire. So not only can you love a game while also realizing that some aspects of it are not too great for women, people of color, LGBT people, etc., it's actually a obligatory thing for a lot of us.

 

[m19]

There is no implication of violence in those meat products.

Check your eyesight maybe. The image of people butchered for fresh meat implies violence pretty directly.

Contrary to popular belief most victims of violence are men. Yet we don't raise a stink about every depiction of violence in the media.

Hate to state the obvious, but you forgot to mention that most perpetrators of violence are men as well.

What's that supposed to mean? Because men commit violence they deserve what they get or something?

Also I remember seeing some questionable math in those rape stats somewhere. Especially the 1 in 4 stat. Like their definition of rape being very loose to include people that didn't even define what happened to them as such.

 

[JudgeGame]

There is no implication of violence in those meat products.

Check your eyesight maybe. The image of people butchered for fresh meat implies violence pretty directly.

It's not violence unless it's enacted against a living being.

 

[m19]

It's not violence unless it's enacted against a living being.

Well then your complaints about the torso are void.

 

[JudgeGame]

It's not violence unless it's enacted against a living being.

Well then your complaints about the torso are void.

It's heavily implied that the torso was of a woman who was brutally mauled by zombies. It is outright stated that the body meat was taken from a morgue. One is violence, the other isn't.

 

[JokerboyJordan]

Yay! Jim mentioned liking Shadow Hearts! (All of my fanboyism).
Damn that is a seriously under appreciated game :/

But on the whole, yes, I agree. It's okay to acknowledge possibly inappropriate content in a kind without downright disowning it

 

[Batou667]

I think it depends, we should not always forgive a game for offensive material. If the offensive material is a core part of the game, for example DoA Extreme Beach Volleyball, which can be considered sexist and misogynistic and it's a core part of the game: we cannot take off the bouncing boobs and etc without virtually removing the whole game. I think that should be the rule of thumb: if removing offensive bits the game as a whole is still functional and engaging, it's acceptable.

I keep seeing DOAX brought up as a conspicuous example of games that people would rather not be judged by. Clips of it get shown in every Escapist video that broaches the topics of "offense" or "sexism" or "misogyny". And why? Because it features some girls in bikinis? Enough of the sham dismay and puritanism, please. Get all the people who claim to be "disgusted" by DOAX and then see how many of them watch porn online, that should reveal the extent of hypocrisy.

Anyway, the video. Isn't Jim basically doing a reverse-silencing move? Saying that it's fine to take any game, or any portion of any game, and shine the bright light of shrill left-wing morality on it regardless of context? And furthermore, we're no longer allowed to nip tired, or worn-out, or pretty-much disproved arguments in the bud. Every charlatan who fancies taking a pop at videogames to further their own agenda is now entitled to a platform for their views. Great.

And lastly, what's wrong with Earthworm Jim / Dave Perry?

 

[sageoftruth]

I completely support Jim's stance against the all or nothing mentality, but I'm not entirely sure if that's really what gets everyone fired up. I once saw a comedian (sorry, I forgot what his name was) who said, "If you really want to piss off a nerd, nothing pisses them off more than when you get their obsession wrong." As a result, I suspect that a number of the immature knee-jerk reactions to claims of sexism stem more from guys suspecting that their favorite game is being judged out of context by an outsider, rather than some fear that accepting any legitimate criticism against the game will get it taken off the shelves. At this point, it's only a theory, but in my experience, accusations against a game I like are much harder to swallow when it seems like the accuser is missing the point. Would you be able to keep quiet if someone called Schindler's List anti-semitic because of the horrible things that are done to the jewish characters?

 

[Reyold]

To be perfectly honest I think this website in general has made me more paranoid in general. I don't want to talk about racism sexism or homophobia in video games, Hell, I'm starting to reach the point where I don't want to talk about ANYTHING in video games because this website can be rather volatile. And I defended the Tomb Raider reboot, I didn't think that it was sexist, and I did jump on the Hitman trailer, because I did think that that was sexist. I have opinions I guess I'm just tired of massive flame filled debates that seem to go nowhere. I'm really starting to think that's all that goes on here.

Ugh, I know that feel. While these ARE important issues, and they do warrant plenty of discussion, it gets aggravating when those discussions don't seem to actually do any good.

 

[Bribase]

Thought I might chime in on this giant thread.

Well said Jimothy. Your videos are getting better and better.

 

[Kartoffelmos]

To be perfectly honest I think this website in general has made me more paranoid in general. I don't want to talk about racism sexism or homophobia in video games, Hell, I'm starting to reach the point where I don't want to talk about ANYTHING in video games because this website can be rather volatile. And I defended the Tomb Raider reboot, I didn't think that it was sexist, and I did jump on the Hitman trailer, because I did think that that was sexist. I have opinions I guess I'm just tired of massive flame filled debates that seem to go nowhere. I'm really starting to think that's all that goes on here.

Ugh, I know that feel. While these ARE important issues, and they do warrant plenty of discussion, it gets aggravating when those discussions don't seem to actually do any good.

What these guys said.

You know what? I give up. I give up!

I'm a woman. I've been playing games since I was 8. I've followed The Escapist as well as many other gaming websites for years, and pretty much every time the issue of sexism comes up, I go through a certain process - I get a lot of thoughts I want to share, until I notice how the discussions are frankly dripping with stupidity, strawmen, even more sexism, backpedaling, excuses, elitism, and to be honest, I've had enough. The next time a male game dev or journalist makes a braindead joke or comment about women, and someone tells me to "chill out" about it, or to not be so "sensitive", I'm gonna walk the fuck away, and I'm not coming back until this whole community grows up.

And that's my very emotional and angry rant. Even though occasionally someone will talk about these issues in a very eloquent manner like Jim did, I just don't find it worth it anymore. I don't have the patience to deal with this level of toxicity.

And people wonder why women might feel alienated in the gaming community. Christ.

 

[Vault101]

I do think it's about time we talked about more serious things regarding our favourite pastime activity, like the fact that the people reviewing games get their money from the people making them, of the fact that a most of the game reviews are barely more than opinion pieces

wha?

thats what a reviw IS