Jimquisition: Fake Nerd Girls

[AngloDoom]

Personally, I just think this is the result of the whole 'geek culture' thing springing into popularity. People have accused me of swapping from contact-lenses to glasses in recent years because I'm trying to keep up with fashion.

I am. What of it? I think it looks nice, it makes people give me compliments and it makes everyone think I'm about twice as capable as when I had contact-lenses. I really don't see what everyone's problem is with trying to fit in - we all do it and it's fun to do it.

Nothing wrong with this sort of thing. It's really a matter of intent and degree, which is why I say it's not something you can ever make immediate accusations about. Likewise, that one guy in art class surrounded by all the girls probably is interested in the art as much as the company. I use this example deliberately. I was that one guy in art class in college, and yes it got me some attention, and yes it felt nice. However, I never tried to manipulate any of the girls into anything more than conversation. I wasn't there for them, I was there to learn how to draw.

Really, though, I'm not referencing a stereotype people aren't familiar with, am I? We all knew that jackass who just took art and home ec to sleeze girls into the sack, right?

But that sort of implies the reason that these guys are railing against women 'pretending' to like games is because these women want to manipulate these men into sleeping with them.

Call me a pessimist, but I don't really think that most of these men would be doing this if they genuinely thought the woman involved wanted to sleep with them.

 

[JarinArenos]

But that sort of implies the reason that these guys are railing against women 'pretending' to like games is because these women want to manipulate these men into sleeping with them.

Call me a pessimist, but I don't really think that most of these men would be doing this if they genuinely thought the woman involved wanted to sleep with them.

Kinda missing the point, I think. Emotional manipulation is emotional manipulation.

 

[Toy Master Typhus]

Has anyone posted yet on the irony of The Escapist yet? About the fact most people who don't believe you should be offended about the fact a person (in this case female) fakes information you care about unless she is an attractive booth babe.

I think a lot of people are missing the point here with wild assertions. First of all to the person above it isn't about her wanting to sleep with you. The entire fake nerd girl sparked from the social event of a person inserting themselves into a conversation by using bullshit or fake information that made them sound like a dumbass. It was then associated with the stereotype of females who when the conversation strayed off into pop culture they didn't know or didn't care to know that they would precede to say something stupid and be shunned for it.

It really is no different then when someone says something stupid on the internet and we probe them for sources, or disregard them as a moron.

 

[Astro]

Women aren't assumed to be fakes

Did you not read the near three page crapstorm in this thread?

I didn't, and I don't think I need to. I'm speaking broadly, like the post I replied to, and not about one or two people spouting quantifiable shit that no-one is convinced by.

 

[Something Amyss]

I've also faked an orgasm - sometimes it's just polite to fake interest, non?

*rimshot*

I really don't see what everyone's problem is with trying to fit in - we all do it and it's fun to do it.

You know, you just went from snarking at a generalisation about you being a stripper to making a generalisation about trying to fit in.

I'm pretty sure I don't. I also don't try not to fit in, because I'm not into counter-culture any more than culture.

I also don't think it's fun to try and fit in. Ask your average closeted homosexual or transsexual how they feel.

Call me a pessimist, but I don't really think that most of these men would be doing this if they genuinely thought the woman involved wanted to sleep with them.

Probably true.

Really, though, I'm not referencing a stereotype people aren't familiar with, am I? We all knew that jackass who just took Art and Home Ec to sleeze girls into the sack, right?

We do?

Has anyone posted yet on the irony of The Escapist yet? About the fact most people who don't believe you should be offended about the fact a person (in this case female) fakes information you care about unless she is an attractive booth babe.

You mean the site where people can (and do) frequently say they don't care about booth babes unless we're talking about getting rid of them, then suddenly it's a nightmare? The site where people frequently espouse those views within sentences of one another?

I'm not sure this is ironic enough to even be a blip on my Escapdar.

It really is no different then when someone says something stupid on the internet and we probe them for sources, or disregard them as a moron.

Except it's largely a default assumption when people see a girl showing nerd interest at all. After all, what female would EVER lower themselves to geek culture without an ulterior motive?

This is indicative of a larger problem--a rather deep-seated mistrust and possibly even hatred towards women. Nerd culture is very territorial, and doubly so when it comes to teh wimminz. Possibly more than double.

Not every issue comes down to misogyny, but when it comes to double standards in a culture known for suspicion of women, yeah, it kinda does here.

 

[Astro]

Considering the different dynamics men and women have when interacting with each other, not having the exact same standards, expectations and assumptions of either gender doesn't mean it's totally unjustified and born out of petty hatred. Men and women are different, they're treated differently, and you react to them differently. Chalking something uniquely disadvantageous up to an irrational hatred of women (or men) is a cheap and easy answer.

 

[Rheinmetall]

I believe that fake nerd girls exist only in the context of games advertisment and games marketing in general. I don't think I have ever met an ordinary female gamer in real life, not even a faker I would say.

 

[jmarquiso]

The only issue I can think off is these people is they do exist are likely to be the same kind of people who 10 years ago would have bullied someone for liking games so I can see the problem there.

People who at one point would not like a thing, than ten years later do? That's what people call progress.

It's tough for the old fans to swallow though. I understand the frustration. My friend was a huge fan of all the superhero comics and cartoons when he was a kid, and he got ridiculed in school for it. Now everyone that was making fun of him is watching the new Marvel movies and he's seeing them claim to be "huge fans of Marvel!" There's nothing really wrong with the person changing and enjoying superheros now, but from my friend's perspective, I'm sure it's tough to swallow.

I couldn't have said it better myself. In fact, I didn't.

I got ridiculed, too. I dealt with the jocks and the guys who actually had lives. We set up a LAN party in the computer lab in our library, us nerds and gamers. We had our own sanctuary.

And then I got ridiculed on both sides. There was a pretty elitist gamer group at my high school, you had to work hard to get in that club. I made it briefly. So did a friend of mine. A friend of mine who got nabbed for credit card fraud because he WAS THAT DESPERATE to get the latest PC (Pentium at that). The gamer elitism was THAT bad. If you didn't have it, you were thrashed by our "friends". I got out, I couldn't abide by it*. I was ashamed of my hobby for years - though I continued to play. It was THEM worse than the ones that made fun of me for it. So this kind of talk sickens me.

No, I don't own a console, my PC is medium powered, I buy the games I like, and rarely pre-order. I love discussing games online, especially in a cultural or artistic sense. What's happening here is that Library on a larger scale. Our hobby is getting popular, and they're all invading our space. Instead of celebrating that others are recognizing the merit or potential gaming could have, we decry it for a loss of authenticity. You know what I suffered for? I suffered for that to HAPPEN.

*No, I'm not blaming my friend's credit card fraud on this club, I'm just stating how extreme it was. I didn't back that either.

 

[Orekoya]

I believe that fake nerd girls exist only in the context of games advertisment and games marketing in general. I don't think I have ever met an ordinary female gamer in real life, not even a faker I would say.

Meh, even that rings hollow, I mean if they truly did not care about video games why would they be doing this as a job. I don't see how putting up with mealy-mouthed jack-offs that constantly treat them with open belligerence could be born from anything other than a labor of love.

 

[Aardvaarkman]

We're talking about the ads that are obviously half baked because it features four women apparently having the time of their lives playing a console that isn't even plugged in. Or the woman proclaiming that she is such a nerd for having logged two hours of actual game time in the last month.

That may be what you were talking about, but it wasn't what Jim was talking about and a lot of others here were talking about. A lot of discussion has baan about females getting harassed at conventions and whatnot, and being given the third degree over their nerd "credentials."

And yes, the term does mean to an extent, that you are a social out cast. That's the cut between simply being smart or bright, and being a nerd. Generally the term "nerd" is associated with people who are so entirely devoted to their hobby, interest, what have you, that they'll neglect eating, social lives, and even person hygiene.

I disagree. What makes your definition of "nerd" the only valid one? Also, people change - somebody who was a socially awkward and unattractive nerd in high school might mature into somebody who isn't. Lots of kids are awkward-looking as teens, but then grow into good-looking people. Does it mean they suddenly stop being a nerd once they have developed socially or physically? The very idea of reclaiming the word "nerd" is that it doesn't have to mean you are a social loner anymore.

And the idea it is about the neglect of hygiene is ridiculous. Just look at the classic nerds of the 50s and 60s who worked on things like the Apollo missions at NASA - they were extremely clean-cut and well groomed. Being able to shower and groom yourself does not in any way reduce your intelligence or obsessive interests. In fact, it can give you more energy to devote to them.

 

[Aardvaarkman]

But then there was another team, aptly named, "Revenge of the Nerds." ... Their team attire were suspenders, ties, office shirts, and the typical "Nerd Glasses:" Is that what nerds are?

You are aware that "Revenge of the Nerds" was an 80s film that parodied exactly those nerd stereotypes, aren't you? And that many "real" nerds play up that image.

 

[OuroborosChoked]

Besides, it's not like this is setting the bar too high. When I was in college, I used to hang out at a locally-owned video game store. It was where a bunch of nerdy guys (and some nerdy girls!) congregated and just talked about video games, cracked jokes, and had a good time... yes, we bought games from the store, too... In there, that kind of conversation was COMMON. It was like video game nerd heaven and my second home. Those were some of... no, fuck it... they WERE the best years of my life. I felt accepted for who I was... and I've missed it every day since it closed.

That's stupid. "Oh I talked about it so it's not setting the bar too high!" What kind of reasoning is that? Hint: The answer is it's bad reasoning. So what if that's the environment you're used to? What makes you so special that your experiences define the word?

The point of the anecdote was that I've experienced it on a regular basis, hence it's not setting the bar too high. I know there are people out there who can have these kinds of conversations easily... it CAN happen... so it's hardly pretentious... it's not even elitist. If anything, the charge of pretentiousness is ridiculous...

Jesus... some people...

 

[OuroborosChoked]

Besides, it's not like this is setting the bar too high. When I was in college, I used to hang out at a locally-owned video game store. It was where a bunch of nerdy guys (and some nerdy girls!) congregated and just talked about video games, cracked jokes, and had a good time... yes, we bought games from the store, too... In there, that kind of conversation was COMMON. It was like video game nerd heaven and my second home. Those were some of... no, fuck it... they WERE the best years of my life. I felt accepted for who I was... and I've missed it every day since it closed.

That's stupid. "Oh I talked about it so it's not setting the bar too high!" What kind of reasoning is that? Hint: The answer is it's bad reasoning. So what if that's the environment you're used to? What makes you so special that your experiences define the word?

You obviously can't read.

The point of the anecdote was that I've experienced it on a regular basis, hence it's not setting the bar too high.

Jesus... some people...

Yet you're the one who somehow missed that my point was that your own experience is worthless. Who gives a fuck what someone like you experienced regularly? You're still stuck on the idea you're so special that just because you experienced it that means something. You personally? Worthless. That you personally experienced it regularly? Still worthless because your personal experiences are worthless. Why? Because you're not special whatever you may want to think.

Where the fuck are you getting that I'm saying my experiences are special? They're special - in the sense that they are precious - to me, yes. But they are hardly unique... Anyone can have these experiences! I don't know why you're getting so irate about this, either... Are you so socially isolated that you get bitter whenever people discuss having interactions with other human beings and have to lash out?

"Oh you think you're special because you've talked to people, huh? Well fuck you! You're not special!"

'Cause that's how you're coming across, buddy. It's rather ugly.

 

[OuroborosChoked]

Besides, it's not like this is setting the bar too high. When I was in college, I used to hang out at a locally-owned video game store. It was where a bunch of nerdy guys (and some nerdy girls!) congregated and just talked about video games, cracked jokes, and had a good time... yes, we bought games from the store, too... In there, that kind of conversation was COMMON. It was like video game nerd heaven and my second home. Those were some of... no, fuck it... they WERE the best years of my life. I felt accepted for who I was... and I've missed it every day since it closed.

That's stupid. "Oh I talked about it so it's not setting the bar too high!" What kind of reasoning is that? Hint: The answer is it's bad reasoning. So what if that's the environment you're used to? What makes you so special that your experiences define the word?

You obviously can't read.

The point of the anecdote was that I've experienced it on a regular basis, hence it's not setting the bar too high.

Jesus... some people...

Yet you're the one who somehow missed that my point was that your own experience is worthless. Who gives a fuck what someone like you experienced regularly? You're still stuck on the idea you're so special that just because you experienced it that means something. You personally? Worthless. That you personally experienced it regularly? Still worthless because your personal experiences are worthless. Why? Because you're not special whatever you may want to think.

Where the fuck are you getting that I'm saying my experiences are special? They're special - in the sense that they are precious - to me, yes. But they are hardly unique... Anyone can have these experiences! I don't know why you're getting so irate about this, either... Are you so socially isolated that you get bitter whenever people discuss having interactions with other human beings and have to lash out?

"Oh you think you're special because you've talked to people, huh? Well fuck you! You're not special!"

'Cause that's how you're coming across, buddy. It's rather ugly.

You're coming across as not smart enough to tell that I'm only taking issue with the fact you think you're so speshul that your personal experiences are somehow a good basis to define a word. I talk to plenty of people, I'm just not so stupid as to say that talking to them means that our interactions define the generic social labels that apply to us.

Just because I'm not automatically convinced by your argument of "you're not special" (because YOU said it... and we all know Dijkstra can't ever be wrong about anything) doesn't mean I don't understand your point. I disagree with you. Anyone can have the same experiences! That was the point of the anecdote; not, as you seem dead-set on proving (or something?), that I'm saying I'm special.

Are you familiar with the concept of disagreement? Just because YOU believe something doesn't make it fact and repeating yourself and calling others stupid for obstinately not agreeing with you won't change that either. What makes you think YOU'RE so special that your opinion=fact, huh?

Oh, whoops! Looks like you fell into your own hole there... you're just so smart, though... I bet you saw it coming...

But hey... I'll be the gracious one here and say that maybe I am wrong. Maybe I am saying that nobody can have conversations like I had back in college. My experience was, in fact, completely novel to the entire span of human existence, and I'm just so stupid, I need to have Dijkstra point it out to me. I'd also like to add: nyeh nyeh, you can't have the same experiences I've had.

Feel better now? Did you accomplish something on the internet?

 

[JarinArenos]

*snip* - Did you accomplish something on the internet?

Flag for outdated meme usage to devalue an opponent's argument. 2 minutes penalty box.

I had to go back to the original post to sort out this conversation. The "bar too high" argument was that you were apparently claiming that you can't be a nerd if you can't discuss the merits of the Atari 2600, and because you had these sorts of conversations, you're a nerd and other people aren't. now, I think I see what you're getting at, with the "Gamer != Nerd" idea, but you may have taken it too far

I'm pretty damn nerdy; I'm a sysadmin, I built my computer, I own three game consoles, and I met my wife on the internet. I don't give a damn about the Atari 2600, and I care very little more for most games of that era aside from the occasional curiosity of design. The objection here is "who are YOU to decide what's nerdy and what isn't?"

 

[OuroborosChoked]

*snip* - Did you accomplish something on the internet?

Flag for outdated meme usage to devalue an opponent's argument. 2 minutes penalty box.

That's a meme? I had no idea...

I had to go back to the original post to sort out this conversation. The "bar too high" argument was that you were apparently claiming that you can't be a nerd if you can't discuss the merits of the Atari 2600 ... The objection here is "who are YOU to decide what's nerdy and what isn't?"

I'm going to stop you right here. Why? Because you cut out the very important follow up that I put IMMEDIATELY after what you paraphrased: or something similar. In other words: or some other kind of in-depth analysis pertaining to video games. That was just one random example... and not even a very well thought out one. I just pulled it out of nowhere. Let it go, man. You don't need to be an expert specifically on the Atari... I know I did say later on that if you're interested, you find ways to expose yourself... but that's the thing: if you're not interested, you won't. Not everyone is interested in Atari. I get that. I'm not particularly interested in sports games, myself.

And I'm not deciding what is and isn't nerdy. What I outlined is essentially the definition of nerd: "An intelligent, single-minded expert in a particular technical discipline or profession". Gamers are not, by default, nerds. People who can have in-depth discussions on a particular "technical discipline" (in this case, area of interest) are nerds... by definition! If you can't do it, you may be a gamer, but you're not a nerd for gaming.

...though you could be a blind, deaf, mute quadriplegic who really loves video games. That's one exception...

 

[themind]

I posted this morning about relationship dynamics of the issue, I don't wish to go back on that train, although I do conclude with the same point.

The very definition of "nerd" seems to be what this thread has degenerated into. To some people it seems to mean a dedicated devotion to a singular thing, and to others a very broad array of interests in activities that are classified as "nerdy". It would be very difficult for any person male or female to existed in both groups simultaneously. Either you dedicate yourself to knowing something inside out, to learn every facet of something, or you cherrypick a few things that you adore and know a lot of other stuff in passing. I am a hockey and WW2 nerd in the devoted category, but perhaps only a "fake nerd" to hardcore gamers or Anime junkies. I can't name every game on every platform ever made, let along have the time (and increasingly the finances) to play them all, but there are some people on this forum that do know and have played the vast majority of those games. The expectation that every female game nerd needs to know as much as Jim Sterling or every female movie buff needs to know as much as Movie Bob is the type of scrunity that is unfair. The issue I have with the grilling of the female nerds (legit nerds, not "fake") is that they are often held up to an impossible standard even if they are really knowledgeable.

Here's my example to help illustrate my overall point.

I love Star Trek, have seen every episode of every series, all the movies, I'm sure there are plenty of posters who have as well, but if I was in a place having to debate semantics of individual episodes withour reference to what happened in that episode or argue over the racial characteristics of the various races, to that group I will not be considered "nerdy" enough. I am not in a position of authority on Star Trek, but some people are walking Gene Roddenberry's. It depends on the level of interest.

To the Gene Roddenberry's I'm probably considered a poser, but to society at large I am a Trekkie and proudly so. I may be scoffed by the Gene Roddenberry's, but a female Trekkie would be expected to know the episode number in TOS where James Kirk's grave was improperly marked, whereas I can get by simply knowing that it occured.

There are sports "fans" that can't name the team that won the championship last year. There are "video game fans" that think 5 hours of gaming in a row is a marathon. There are Battlestar Galatica "nerds" I've met that don't know there was a 1970s Battlestar, Starbuck was a man, and Gaius Baltar worked directly for the Cyclons. Everything has it's elitists, hardcore fans, casuals, and posers.

As I allude to in my first post, it seems "Fake Nerds Girls" seemingly only exist in the eye of the beholder. Every sports, hobby, game, activity has it, I don't see how video games are different.

 

[Aardvaarkman]

Theres a difference between starting somewhere & doing a thing badly once & then calling yourself an expert. I kicked a ball in the park yesterday: I AM THE WORLDS GREATEST AHTLETE! ALL KNEEL BEFORE MY MIGHTY BALL KICKING SKILLS & REPENT, FOR I HAVE COME TO COLLECT YOUR SOULS WITH MY BALL KICKING SKILLS! NOW SOMEONE SUMMON ME AN UNATTRACTIVE SPICE GIRL TO BE MY WIFE!

Seriously, to often we see this kind of extreme response from someone who has done a thing once or twice & then thinks that gives them the right to not only co-opt a label, but also play that label like a cliche.

You say this happens "often"? I've never seen anybody act this way. It feels more like you are constructing a straw man. I'm sure there are people who exaggerate their experience level in gaming, but complete novices claiming to be experts just doesn't sound like real thing to me.

Even if it is, who the hell cares? It doesn't affect you in any way. Just ignore them. It seems that the only way something like this would happen would be if you choose to engage with the "fake" people. Just go and speak to somebody else instead.

 

[LightningBanks]

From personal experience, I can say there are people who, not necessarily not like games, but try to get as MUCH attention from it as possible. However, Both examples I have are girls trying to Get on COD boys by posting every game they play on facebook (and this is more just general boys than the 'geek' culture) and the other being a girl trying to get on my best friend (who wasn't interested) by experessing an interest in Assasins Creed (which we found was a lie when she said she'd finished all of them on her xbox, only to have no achievements, or indeed play history for either)

BUT as you can see, both my experience comes from daily life, if a girl turned up to something such as a convention cosplaying, then people accusing them are asshats. In fact, don't accuse anyone, just ignore them. The only thing I disagree with is the whole skimpy outfits thing, but I disagree with that in general, not just 'gamer' culture.

Though I do find it weird how this culture is the only culture women don't have a mini advantage in and it gets disputed and whined about as hell. But then again, I don't know how bad it actually is. I do agree with everything Jim says though


[/quote]

The only issue I can think off is these people is they do exist are likely to be the same kind of people who 10 years ago would have bullied someone for liking games so I can see the problem there.

This too. Same with converses, Vans and other clothing brands too (In my city anyway)

 

[Suijen]

I've never noticed the fake gamer girl phenomenon either. From the girls I know, they do play certain games, but games are not as big part of their lives as they are with mine. Ie, my wife likes to play certain Lego games, but she wouldn't be as invested in the field of gaming or a genre of gaming. My younger cousin was really into Plants vs Zombies and a whole bunch of Nintendo DS games.

But in all honesty, gaming is simply becoming more accessible and its broadened itself significantly. And a hardcore Angry Birds (hate that game) gamer is still a gamer. I wouldn't be surprised if younger girls nowadays are more into gaming now than before.