You are aware that "Revenge of the Nerds" was an 80s film that parodied exactly those nerd stereotypes, aren't you? And that many "real" nerds play up that image.clippen05 said:
Jimquisition: Fake Nerd Girls
- Thread starter Jimothy Sterling
- Start date
The point of the anecdote was that I've experienced it on a regular basis, hence it's not setting the bar too high. I know there are people out there who can have these kinds of conversations easily... it CAN happen... so it's hardly pretentious... it's not even elitist. If anything, the charge of pretentiousness is ridiculous...Dijkstra said:
Jesus... some people...
Where the fuck are you getting that I'm saying my experiences are special? They're special - in the sense that they are precious - to me, yes. But they are hardly unique... Anyone can have these experiences! I don't know why you're getting so irate about this, either... Are you so socially isolated that you get bitter whenever people discuss having interactions with other human beings and have to lash out?Dijkstra said:
"Oh you think you're special because you've talked to people, huh? Well fuck you! You're not special!"
'Cause that's how you're coming across, buddy. It's rather ugly.
Just because I'm not automatically convinced by your argument of "you're not special" (because YOU said it... and we all know Dijkstra can't ever be wrong about anything) doesn't mean I don't understand your point. I disagree with you. Anyone can have the same experiences! That was the point of the anecdote; not, as you seem dead-set on proving (or something?), that I'm saying I'm special.Dijkstra said:
Are you familiar with the concept of disagreement? Just because YOU believe something doesn't make it fact and repeating yourself and calling others stupid for obstinately not agreeing with you won't change that either. What makes you think YOU'RE so special that your opinion=fact, huh?
Oh, whoops! Looks like you fell into your own hole there... you're just so smart, though... I bet you saw it coming...
But hey... I'll be the gracious one here and say that maybe I am wrong. Maybe I am saying that nobody can have conversations like I had back in college. My experience was, in fact, completely novel to the entire span of human existence, and I'm just so stupid, I need to have Dijkstra point it out to me. I'd also like to add: nyeh nyeh, you can't have the same experiences I've had.
Feel better now? Did you accomplish something on the internet?
Flag for outdated meme usage to devalue an opponent's argument. 2 minutes penalty box.OuroborosChoked said:
I had to go back to the original post to sort out this conversation. The "bar too high" argument was that you were apparently claiming that you can't be a nerd if you can't discuss the merits of the Atari 2600, and because you had these sorts of conversations, you're a nerd and other people aren't. now, I think I see what you're getting at, with the "Gamer != Nerd" idea, but you may have taken it too far
I'm pretty damn nerdy; I'm a sysadmin, I built my computer, I own three game consoles, and I met my wife on the internet. I don't give a damn about the Atari 2600, and I care very little more for most games of that era aside from the occasional curiosity of design. The objection here is "who are YOU to decide what's nerdy and what isn't?"
That's a meme? I had no idea...JarinArenos said:
I'm going to stop you right here. Why? Because you cut out the very important follow up that I put IMMEDIATELY after what you paraphrased: or something similar. In other words: or some other kind of in-depth analysis pertaining to video games. That was just one random example... and not even a very well thought out one. I just pulled it out of nowhere. Let it go, man. You don't need to be an expert specifically on the Atari... I know I did say later on that if you're interested, you find ways to expose yourself... but that's the thing: if you're not interested, you won't. Not everyone is interested in Atari. I get that. I'm not particularly interested in sports games, myself.
And I'm not deciding what is and isn't nerdy. What I outlined is essentially the definition of nerd: "An intelligent, single-minded expert in a particular technical discipline or profession". Gamers are not, by default, nerds. People who can have in-depth discussions on a particular "technical discipline" (in this case, area of interest) are nerds... by definition! If you can't do it, you may be a gamer, but you're not a nerd for gaming.
...though you could be a blind, deaf, mute quadriplegic who really loves video games. That's one exception...
I posted this morning about relationship dynamics of the issue, I don't wish to go back on that train, although I do conclude with the same point.
The very definition of "nerd" seems to be what this thread has degenerated into. To some people it seems to mean a dedicated devotion to a singular thing, and to others a very broad array of interests in activities that are classified as "nerdy". It would be very difficult for any person male or female to existed in both groups simultaneously. Either you dedicate yourself to knowing something inside out, to learn every facet of something, or you cherrypick a few things that you adore and know a lot of other stuff in passing. I am a hockey and WW2 nerd in the devoted category, but perhaps only a "fake nerd" to hardcore gamers or Anime junkies. I can't name every game on every platform ever made, let along have the time (and increasingly the finances) to play them all, but there are some people on this forum that do know and have played the vast majority of those games. The expectation that every female game nerd needs to know as much as Jim Sterling or every female movie buff needs to know as much as Movie Bob is the type of scrunity that is unfair. The issue I have with the grilling of the female nerds (legit nerds, not "fake") is that they are often held up to an impossible standard even if they are really knowledgeable.
Here's my example to help illustrate my overall point.
I love Star Trek, have seen every episode of every series, all the movies, I'm sure there are plenty of posters who have as well, but if I was in a place having to debate semantics of individual episodes withour reference to what happened in that episode or argue over the racial characteristics of the various races, to that group I will not be considered "nerdy" enough. I am not in a position of authority on Star Trek, but some people are walking Gene Roddenberry's. It depends on the level of interest.
To the Gene Roddenberry's I'm probably considered a poser, but to society at large I am a Trekkie and proudly so. I may be scoffed by the Gene Roddenberry's, but a female Trekkie would be expected to know the episode number in TOS where James Kirk's grave was improperly marked, whereas I can get by simply knowing that it occured.
There are sports "fans" that can't name the team that won the championship last year. There are "video game fans" that think 5 hours of gaming in a row is a marathon. There are Battlestar Galatica "nerds" I've met that don't know there was a 1970s Battlestar, Starbuck was a man, and Gaius Baltar worked directly for the Cyclons. Everything has it's elitists, hardcore fans, casuals, and posers.
As I allude to in my first post, it seems "Fake Nerds Girls" seemingly only exist in the eye of the beholder. Every sports, hobby, game, activity has it, I don't see how video games are different.
The very definition of "nerd" seems to be what this thread has degenerated into. To some people it seems to mean a dedicated devotion to a singular thing, and to others a very broad array of interests in activities that are classified as "nerdy". It would be very difficult for any person male or female to existed in both groups simultaneously. Either you dedicate yourself to knowing something inside out, to learn every facet of something, or you cherrypick a few things that you adore and know a lot of other stuff in passing. I am a hockey and WW2 nerd in the devoted category, but perhaps only a "fake nerd" to hardcore gamers or Anime junkies. I can't name every game on every platform ever made, let along have the time (and increasingly the finances) to play them all, but there are some people on this forum that do know and have played the vast majority of those games. The expectation that every female game nerd needs to know as much as Jim Sterling or every female movie buff needs to know as much as Movie Bob is the type of scrunity that is unfair. The issue I have with the grilling of the female nerds (legit nerds, not "fake") is that they are often held up to an impossible standard even if they are really knowledgeable.
Here's my example to help illustrate my overall point.
I love Star Trek, have seen every episode of every series, all the movies, I'm sure there are plenty of posters who have as well, but if I was in a place having to debate semantics of individual episodes withour reference to what happened in that episode or argue over the racial characteristics of the various races, to that group I will not be considered "nerdy" enough. I am not in a position of authority on Star Trek, but some people are walking Gene Roddenberry's. It depends on the level of interest.
To the Gene Roddenberry's I'm probably considered a poser, but to society at large I am a Trekkie and proudly so. I may be scoffed by the Gene Roddenberry's, but a female Trekkie would be expected to know the episode number in TOS where James Kirk's grave was improperly marked, whereas I can get by simply knowing that it occured.
There are sports "fans" that can't name the team that won the championship last year. There are "video game fans" that think 5 hours of gaming in a row is a marathon. There are Battlestar Galatica "nerds" I've met that don't know there was a 1970s Battlestar, Starbuck was a man, and Gaius Baltar worked directly for the Cyclons. Everything has it's elitists, hardcore fans, casuals, and posers.
As I allude to in my first post, it seems "Fake Nerds Girls" seemingly only exist in the eye of the beholder. Every sports, hobby, game, activity has it, I don't see how video games are different.
You say this happens "often"? I've never seen anybody act this way. It feels more like you are constructing a straw man. I'm sure there are people who exaggerate their experience level in gaming, but complete novices claiming to be experts just doesn't sound like real thing to me.matthew_lane said:
Even if it is, who the hell cares? It doesn't affect you in any way. Just ignore them. It seems that the only way something like this would happen would be if you choose to engage with the "fake" people. Just go and speak to somebody else instead.
From personal experience, I can say there are people who, not necessarily not like games, but try to get as MUCH attention from it as possible. However, Both examples I have are girls trying to Get on COD boys by posting every game they play on facebook (and this is more just general boys than the 'geek' culture) and the other being a girl trying to get on my best friend (who wasn't interested) by experessing an interest in Assasins Creed (which we found was a lie when she said she'd finished all of them on her xbox, only to have no achievements, or indeed play history for either)
BUT as you can see, both my experience comes from daily life, if a girl turned up to something such as a convention cosplaying, then people accusing them are asshats. In fact, don't accuse anyone, just ignore them. The only thing I disagree with is the whole skimpy outfits thing, but I disagree with that in general, not just 'gamer' culture.
Though I do find it weird how this culture is the only culture women don't have a mini advantage in and it gets disputed and whined about as hell. But then again, I don't know how bad it actually is. I do agree with everything Jim says though
[/quote]
BUT as you can see, both my experience comes from daily life, if a girl turned up to something such as a convention cosplaying, then people accusing them are asshats. In fact, don't accuse anyone, just ignore them. The only thing I disagree with is the whole skimpy outfits thing, but I disagree with that in general, not just 'gamer' culture.
Though I do find it weird how this culture is the only culture women don't have a mini advantage in and it gets disputed and whined about as hell. But then again, I don't know how bad it actually is. I do agree with everything Jim says though
[/quote]
This too. Same with converses, Vans and other clothing brands too (In my city anyway)getoffmycloud said:
I've never noticed the fake gamer girl phenomenon either. From the girls I know, they do play certain games, but games are not as big part of their lives as they are with mine. Ie, my wife likes to play certain Lego games, but she wouldn't be as invested in the field of gaming or a genre of gaming. My younger cousin was really into Plants vs Zombies and a whole bunch of Nintendo DS games.
But in all honesty, gaming is simply becoming more accessible and its broadened itself significantly. And a hardcore Angry Birds (hate that game) gamer is still a gamer. I wouldn't be surprised if younger girls nowadays are more into gaming now than before.
But in all honesty, gaming is simply becoming more accessible and its broadened itself significantly. And a hardcore Angry Birds (hate that game) gamer is still a gamer. I wouldn't be surprised if younger girls nowadays are more into gaming now than before.
The fact that they're feigning interest is irrelevant, it's that they're doing something specifically for sexually-charged attention from a particularly vulnerable demographic in a predatory and manipulative manner. No fake nerd girl has ever contributed anything, they're just trying to integrate themselves into gaming culture to exploit the fact that being female makes them valuable in that context. It's slimy, lazy and exploitative.themind said:
Of course, no male gamer would ever do anything to try and attract sexual attention. There are no sleazy, lazy male gamers.Astro said:
I'm also wondering what you think it is that the average male gamer has contributed? The vast majority of gamers don't "contribute" anything - they just play games. It's only really the programmers, the influential game journalists and the studios that actually have enough impact to influence the medium through their rhetoric.
Of course, the major influence on gaming is what the majority of people choose to buy - which tends to be titles like Angry Birds, Mario, Halo, Madden, etc. So, the rhetoric is kind of irrelevant. That being said, can you tell us what you've actually contributed to gaming so we can judge that?
It's also interesting that you specify "fake girl gamers." What is it that the fake boy gamers have contributed that excludes them from your comments?
Yes, except female sexual persuasion isn't "hey I'm interested in you so I'll express my interest" in this context, it's "hey I'm going to sit here presenting myself in a certain way to exploit this demographic specifically to reap the attention I'm liable to get." The average male gamer is a member of the gaming community, and if you have an interest in gaming, even a passing one, no-one will think twice about your good-natured participation. In order to be into something as a hobby you don't have to actively contribute to avoid scorn, you just have to not intentionally use it as an agent to leech for your own benefit to the irritation of legitimate enthusiasts. Be neutral, or give more than you take. None of my hobbies are your dating service, and I don't appreciate being passively preyed on or manipulated. Obviously you can do whatever you want because we live in modern nihilism, but I'm not going to idly tolerate this 'fake nerd girl' bullshit without so much as mentioning why it's unpleasant because legally nothing can be done about it, (so I guess it's fine [just like an extremely grumpy person is absolutely fine because HEH legal freedom]).Aardvaarkman said:
There are obviously prats who will interrogate every woman who expresses an interest in anything they like because they're lonely morons, but 'fake nerd girls' aren't the innocent victims of these people who nobody is taking seriously anyway, real nerd girls are. And there's no legitimate discussion about whether girls can feasibly have an interest in gaming, the discussion is about whether 'fake nerd girls' are deserving of contempt and why or why not.