Jimquisition: Gamer Guys

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Strazdas

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May 28, 2011
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very extreme and feticiuos examples you picked that does not really prove anything. Yes, there are silly gamers like that. though its not so much a gamer as a nerd problem (dont mix the two). Nerd culture revolved around them being bullied, by pretending the new wave nerds are the same you are simply ripping apart nerd culture. Now whether this culture was good or not is neither of us decision, but essentialy it would be like saying that republicans are liberals because a few of them have said something that does not conflict with liberals, therefore they are all liverals and those liberals who are truly liberal are just crying babies (the "real gamers"). you cant just rip apart a culture and expect no backlash.

Jimothy Sterling said:
Implying I've ever been in there.
but i remember you talking that you have a "girlfriend" so the signals are kinda conflicting. that is unless you flatout lied on podtoid which wouldnt be that strnage to begin with :D

and im not even picking up the example of "raping his wife" back in the old episodes..... (yes i did listen to old episodes what i could find of them (not all available, though it seems internet archive has got them now so maybe a re-listen).



th3dark3rsh33p said:
People still think there is an issue with fake gamer girls? Well that sure is interesting. However, it was funny as always Jim.
would you say that a girl, who tatooed a triforce on her arm, goes aroudn touting that "Skyward sword" is the best game ever, but when asked does not even know the name of the main character, is a "real gamer girl" or a "fake gamer girl". and yes, they DO exist. its not really a big issue, like with homosexuality, the clash of thinking blows it way out of the proportion, but to deny their existence is ignorant.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Strazdas said:
but i remember you talking that you have a "girlfriend" so the signals are kinda conflicting. that is unless you flatout lied on podtoid which wouldnt be that strnage to begin with :D
I am in a very happy straight marriage.

That doesn't mean *I'm* straight, for there are more sexualities than simply straight and gay.
 

Strazdas

Robots will replace your job
May 28, 2011
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Jimothy Sterling said:
Strazdas said:
but i remember you talking that you have a "girlfriend" so the signals are kinda conflicting. that is unless you flatout lied on podtoid which wouldnt be that strnage to begin with :D
I am in a very happy straight marriage.

That doesn't mean *I'm* straight, for there are more sexualities than simply straight and gay.
I see, makes sense now. Thank you for such a swift response.
 

Mausthemighty

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Aug 3, 2011
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I don't have any problems with girlgamers or dudebro's or whatever. If you play singleplayer you won't ever meet one.

That said, people posing as something they're not, is something that has always existed. In every fandom or hobby you get that. It's best to just ignore those twats. What's really important is that you yourself enjoy playing the game and don't waste your time and energy on these 'people'.

Edit: Oh and thank God for Jim
 

grey_space

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Apr 16, 2012
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Silentpony said:
Obviously this is a spin on the fake gamer girl malarkey going about. I honestly have a good example of a fake nerd girl. There was a girl in my bio-class last semester who after talking with her for a few days admitted she was a hard-core Star Wars fan, loved the movies, read the books and played all the games. I was genuinely impressed. But then! She says that she and her roommate were going to get a pet ferret. Jokingly I asked if she was going to name it 'Boba Ferret" and she looked at me, dead eyed and asked if that was from something. I said "No, its a spin on Boba Fett's name." "Whose Boba Fett?" And then she moved on, saying they were going to name the little ferret 'Whiskers'.

Now I don't know her reasoning behind making up the Star Wars bit, and I honestly don't care. It was painfully obvious to me she just made up the 'I'm a Star Wars fan' and thats enough for me. Are all fans/gamer girls like this? Hell no. But really, please stop pretending there aren't two catagories. There are and please not men can fall under it too. If it makes you feel better, we can label them 'True Fans/Gamers' and 'Hipster Fans/Gamers'. See? Gender neutral and implies that one group is a fan because they truly enjoy it, while another is doing so ironically or whatever hispters do
Why have to codify anything? Maybe she loved the movies for something other than everyone's favourite bounty hunter. If she says she's a fan she's a fan.

My girlfriend claims to love star trek but I'm pretty sure the last day when we were talking about the latest movie she had't a fucking clue who Gene Roddenberry was. I didn't slap her around the kitchen for not living up to some arbitrary level of Trek-lore.

Take this analogy. Two...MMA fans. One has watched the UFC since it's inception, trains at a Gym, has fought a couple of fights, and studies multiple martial arts. The other started watching last year and only got into it because he thought some of the clothing lines associated with sport were pretty badass, and made him feel badass wearing them, so now he's watching and getting a bit of a kick out of what he's seeing.

Are both these guys even appreciating the same things when sitting down to watch a match? Hell no. Is their fundamental enjoyment out of what they are watching any different?

Hell no. They are both fans.

There are no categories man. There is only...love.
 

WolfCross

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Strazdas said:
would you say that a girl, who tatooed a triforce on her arm, goes aroudn touting that "Skyward sword" is the best game ever, but when asked does not even know the name of the main character, is a "real gamer girl" or a "fake gamer girl". and yes, they DO exist. its not really a big issue, like with homosexuality, the clash of thinking blows i oft way out of the proportion, but to deny their existence is ignorant.
Even in the case of that extremely unlikely scenario you gave there, to me the person who is making the irrational distinction between 'real' and 'fake' has alot more to answer for than the person, who must be a girl by default as presumably a male could not possibly err in such a way, who didn't know the main character of a game they'd claimed to have played.

The point is yes there are people who claim to like things more than they do (stones in glass fucking houses btw because I guarantee that all of us have done this at least once, even if only to keep up small talk with a stranger, friend of a friend etc.) but to classify people as cultural fraudsters through some fanciful and completely arbitrary scale to which reasonable looking girls seem to get a 23.58 point auto-deduction from the word go and is both titanically arrogant infinitely more misguided imo.
 

Terramax

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I've never met a fake gamer girl. I feel like I'm missing out on a REALLY good in-joke here.
 

Lightknight

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Nov 26, 2008
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So... there is a general suspicion of these people rather than a hate in general or desire to keep them out? That's kinda weird but hardly worth mentioning.

Maybe we're actually talking about the fighting genre's community. That's make complete sense.
 

WolfCross

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Combustion Kevin said:
where are the outraged crowds that demand girls to stay out of gaming?

excluding anonymous youtubers of course.
Admittedly this issue is a particular bugbear of mine for various reasons, but yea it's pretty much a thing:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/tarabrown/2012/03/26/dear-fake-geek-girls-please-go-away/

Articles like this, aren't that uncommon and Googling will give you close to 8million hits, with various memes, blogs etc.
 

Terramax

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Sexy Devil said:
I feel like Jim might've just stumbled upon the real, underlying point of contention for a lot of us. Warning: pity party 2013 post below. It eventually has a point but there's going to be a lot of self-pity prior to it. Just skip to the bolded bit if you want to hear the conclusion that I'm trying to establish.

I have an essential tremor, I'm autistic, I just generally look weird, and I have a myriad of other whacky conditions that are generally mocked in society. Basically what I'm getting at is that I'm the type of nerd that The Big Bang Theory mocks so relentlessly; the type of nerd that a lot of you are so adamant doesn't actually exist. The type of nerd that, no matter how much I try, will just never be accepted in society. If I try to make friends I fail miserably. If I awkwardly sit in the corner and don't speak to anyone then assholes see that and throw garbage at me (not joking). The only way that people will tolerate me is if I do nothing but viciously mock myself for their amusement.

While a lot of you got into gaming and internet culture because you liked it, I got into it because there simply wasn't anywhere else that I could go. And really, the initial idea of nerd culture was that it was a place for people like me who couldn't fit in anywhere else. Now things have changed - nerdy shit is the next big thing, and we've kind of become that irrelevant group who have been sidelined and forgotten about. So when someone like Anita Sarkeesian comes along and says to us "Hey, your refuge from the world might be pretty cool if you change everything about it so that it appeals to everyone else" we get absolutely livid. It's essentially saying that the very people who drove us to this place want to take it for themselves.

And it's not just women that we're hostile to, the frat boy type guys tend to get their fair share of shit on the internet too. The difference is that on the internet you can't really tell if someone's a frat boy, but women are pretty obvious, and seem so foreign to us that they may as well be an entirely different species. Consequently, women in general tend to be generalised as those elusive creatures from high school, and take the brunt of the shit. That "you have to answer these questions correctly or else we hate you" thing is more of a code to make sure that we can feel safe around you. That's what's really at the core of all of it - the misogyny, the fake gamer girl bullshit, all of it. People tend to ironically befriend us because it's funny to them (I know this sounds completely ridiculous, but I swear it has happened to me a whole bunch of times), and we need to be absolutely sure that you're not one of those people.

I'm not saying it's right, and I'm not saying that it's entirely rational, but the alternative is that we lose the one place in the world that we can treated like humans, instead of robots who exist to be made fun of. And if society would just stop fucking treating autistics like we're inferior, then maybe we'd stop being so fucking scared of the general populous. This is just me though; I could very well be completely off-base and the people complaining might genuinely be misogynists.

IMPORTANT PART

So what I've quite poorly been trying to say is that the way Jim and other supporters of the feminist movement in gaming have been going about it is quite poor. They're basically just telling us what assholes we are for not supporting it rather than trying to show us that the end result isn't going to be just another place where we don't belong.

And for the record, I had no part in any of the shit flinging going on recently. I've just kind of silently been pissed off about it. I really don't care what happens though, just trying to give insight into why some people might be so strongly opposed to the notion of feminism coming into gaming.
You know what, buddy? I think you hit the nail on the head. You see, why can't people like you make an article on the escapist, rather than people such as Jim, from time to time. Some of the stuff you write hits the point so hard, it fucking HURTS!

Like you, I grew up on gaming, because had nothing else. Growing up in the centre of London, I couldn't leave the house alone, so was forced to occupy myself with video games, whilst my family didn't care for me. I wasn't very social, therefore, my social skills suffered.

Then, growing up in more rural areas, kids in school were just absolute arseholes. Bullied every day, because I preferred to spend my time on video games, and films, rather than talk about girls and football.

My only escapism was video games. I swear, they literally saved my life from despair sometimes. I grew up with all these awesome games, some of which, yes, sexualise women overtly, but on the whole, it wasn't doing any damage to woman, wasn't doing any damage to me, and I wasn't doing any damage to anyone else.

And now, suddenly, over the last 2 or so years, we've had morons from both sides of the pond - people in the gaming industry, and outside of it, telling me I'm some sort of bad guy because I play Dead or Alive, or I point out that video game women are better looking, and have better personalities, than many real women.

How the heck is this our fault?

And you know what, feminists? If you don't like the way games are, then don't play them. I don't like women's bullshit fashion shows, the dumb magazines women read, or books like Fifty Shades of Grey, or Twilight, or like the same cheesy romantic stories or songs they listen to - for the way they misrepresent, and even demonise men.
But should those industries, and the people that like them, change, just because I find them offensive and ridiculous? No, of course they shouldn't. Therefore, why the heck should I and the gaming industry be haggled because people like Jim Sterling get offended by things they really don't need to be offended about?
 

Neonit

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This is sexist bullshit! You bigoted sexist!
This is what is wrong with out society, now let me gather money from people and make a bunch of documentaries about sexism in gaming.

What? This sword cuts on both sides :p

Meh, people are far too much bothered about other people if you ask me. Not just in gaming, in every aspect of our society.
Why cant we just live and let live?
 

Strazdas

Robots will replace your job
May 28, 2011
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WolfCross said:
Strazdas said:
would you say that a girl, who tatooed a triforce on her arm, goes aroudn touting that "Skyward sword" is the best game ever, but when asked does not even know the name of the main character, is a "real gamer girl" or a "fake gamer girl". and yes, they DO exist. its not really a big issue, like with homosexuality, the clash of thinking blows i oft way out of the proportion, but to deny their existence is ignorant.
Even in the case of that extremely unlikely scenario you gave there, to me the person who is making the irrational distinction between 'real' and 'fake' has alot more to answer for than the person, who must be a girl by default as presumably a male could not possibly err in such a way, who didn't know the main character of a game they'd claimed to have played.

The point is yes there are people who claim to like things more than they do (stones in glass fucking houses btw because I guarantee that all of us have done this at least once, even if only to keep up small talk with a stranger, friend of a friend etc.) but to classify people as cultural fraudsters through some fanciful and completely arbitrary scale to which reasonable looking girls seem to get a 23.58 point auto-deduction from the word go and is both titanically arrogant infinitely more misguided imo.
I know the "extremely unlikely scenario" exists. Sure, the evidence is humorous when it comes from me alone, and i dbout anyone did research for this particular case, but they certainly do exist. and being a girl has nothing to do with it, there are males who act the same. except the only thing people seem to claim dont exist are female variant, even jim admited they exist.
You seem to not distinguist a person who has perhaps done it to keep up small talk with somone and a person who goes around touting you about it demanding i admit that "He is a nerd".
i got abosolutely nothing agaisnt girls playing games. i do however dislike, and for a reason, people who pretend to do so to get attention, be them male or female. Its just that female ones are much more in the spotlight now, because people are sexist this way.

Sure, there are a lot of people who are ready to attack anything with tits. like the athene youtube videos (thier shit videos but thats not really relevant now). half the comments seem to be "you got big tits" or "show your tits". then again she does cover almost half of the screen of a gaming commentary with a webcam pointed at her tits, who seem to always be barely covered (seriusoly, she done this for like 8 games, i didnt bother checking deeper), so the intentions are also questionable.
 

Miroluck

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neonit said:
This is sexist bullshit! You bigoted sexist!
This is what is wrong with out society, now let me gather money from people and make a bunch of documentaries about sexism in gaming.

What? This sword cuts on both sides :p

Meh, people are far too much bothered about other people if you ask me. Not just in gaming, in every aspect of our society.
Why cant we just live and let live?
B-b-but, neonit-san, things like that are like, totally perpetuate rape culture and stuff! S-s-stop it, or put up a trigger warning f-for mansplaining! Mulders are always right, and totally not hypocrites!
 

Something Amyss

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Dec 3, 2008
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Strazdas said:
very extreme and feticiuos

Since I'm quoting you anyway, it's "facetious." Not a slam or anything. Just trying to be helpful.


Nerd culture revolved around them being bullied, by pretending the new wave nerds are the same you are simply ripping apart nerd culture.
I hope you're not pretending all "old school" nerds were bullied, because that's just false.

Now whether this culture was good or not is neither of us decision, but essentialy it would be like saying that republicans are liberals because a few of them have said something that does not conflict with liberals, therefore they are all liverals and those liberals who are truly liberal are just crying babies (the "real gamers"). you cant just rip apart a culture and expect no backlash.
Republicans are liberals from 50 years ago.. :p Have you ever looked at the top 50 conservative rock songs of all times? It includes such conservative groups as the Beach Boys (gay friendly, except Mike Love), the Beatles (hippies who loved the reefer), and The Who (who wrote apolitical songs they tried to co-opt).


but i remember you talking that you have a "girlfriend" so the signals are kinda conflicting. that is unless you flatout lied on podtoid which wouldnt be that strnage to begin with :D
Jim's already said something, but I only think it's fair to point out he's openly stated in the past that he is bisexual. However, I'm baffled that anyone could think the only alternative was lying. A little disturbed, too.

would you say that a girl, who tatooed a triforce on her arm, goes aroudn touting that "Skyward sword" is the best game ever, but when asked does not even know the name of the main character, is a "real gamer girl" or a "fake gamer girl". and yes, they DO exist. its not really a big issue, like with homosexuality, the clash of thinking blows it way out of the proportion, but to deny their existence is ignorant.
I'd call her what she is: a liar.

Edited to clarify: partially tongue in cheek.

Sexy Devil said:
While a lot of you got into gaming and internet culture because you liked it, I got into it because there simply wasn't anywhere else that I could go.
And while you may hate that others are included, I personally hate the notion that this is what gaming culture has to be. Especially since it's never entirely been true. Just the irony that virtually from its inception as widespread technology, the internet has had people screaming about "NERDS" should be a tip-off.

So when someone like Anita Sarkeesian comes along and says to us "Hey, your refuge from the world might be pretty cool if you change everything about it so that it appeals to everyone else" we get absolutely livid.
So livid that you don't even care that she didn't say that.

Please, there's enough wrong with Anita's statements that you don't need to lie to make more. And if you don't have any pertinent criticisms, stop co-opting our legit criticisms with your "nerd culture."

See what I did there?

grey_space said:
Why have to codify anything? Maybe she loved the movies for something other than everyone's favourite bounty hunter. If she says she's a fan she's a fan.
Impossible! Everyone loves Baby Fatt! Han Solo sends him Life Day cards!

This is an interesting point of the phenomena, though. People drop it at one question, really, which is annoying. On a bad day, I could probably fail that. In part because I think a guy who gets like three minutes of screen time and fewer than five lines shouldn't be fellated like he is and in part because I'm a space cadet. Doesn't change the fact that I was practically immersed in Star Wars (and Trek) since I was like, two. I come from a long line of nerds.

You either have to have ALL THE KNOWLEDGE or you are assumed to not be a true fan.

Terramax said:
I've never met a fake gamer girl. I feel like I'm missing out on a REALLY good in-joke here.
Unless you count PR, most people will never meet one. That's part of the joke. The term is tossed around with such frequency because the standards are ridiculous.

Lightknight said:
So... there is a general suspicion of these people rather than a hate in general or desire to keep them out? That's kinda weird but hardly worth mentioning.

Maybe we're actually talking about the fighting genre's community. That's make complete sense.
No, it's pretty much the broader community.

As outraged as people were at that neckbeard who sniffed his teammate, nothing he said was that far out of line with what girls are normally told to deal with or get out.
 

kain78

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My test is "Whats the most annoying mob to fight in Hello Kitty Roller Rescue?"
Gamers play the game not the cover
 

Something Amyss

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neonit said:
This is sexist bullshit! You bigoted sexist!
This is what is wrong with out society, now let me gather money from people and make a bunch of documentaries about sexism in gaming.

What? This sword cuts on both sides :p

Meh, people are far too much bothered about other people if you ask me. Not just in gaming, in every aspect of our society.
Why cant we just live and let live?
It does cut two ways, but it looks particularly ridiculous when cutting the "other way" requires relying on fals equivalence.
 

Neonit

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Zachary Amaranth said:
neonit said:
This is sexist bullshit! You bigoted sexist!
This is what is wrong with out society, now let me gather money from people and make a bunch of documentaries about sexism in gaming.

What? This sword cuts on both sides :p

Meh, people are far too much bothered about other people if you ask me. Not just in gaming, in every aspect of our society.
Why cant we just live and let live?
It does cut two ways, but it looks particularly ridiculous when cutting the "other way" requires relying on fals equivalence.
Thing is, if you want to point out the stupidity of other "way of thinking", people tend to chose the most extreme cases. Every time someone points out the immature "tru gamers!111" who dont want girls in their tree houses, another person could point out the extremes on the other side. That would include feminists who believe that everyone out there is doing their best to oppress the women, support rape and genital mutilation on males etc etc etc.

In short, my point is - both sides have idiots that tend to overreact and act like a bunch of whiny kids, those people should be ignored. What media tends to do, is put an effing megaphone in front of them, because that generates views.

Also, i fail to see the "false equivalence", could you explain what you mean?
 

KOMega

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Terramax said:
Sexy Devil said:
~super snip~
~super snip~
Well, one way to think about it is that internet culture and gaming culture are subsets of the overarching "nerd culture" which seems to be moving in on their territory and becoming what is popular these days. Being something that has become popular, it has developed into something that can appeal to wider audiences of people (and diluted in a few places unfortunately.)

I sympathize with both of your plights and I'm sure someone in the vast reaches of the internet you will (or most likely have, since you are here already) found a place to be accepting of who you are and whatever choice in games you like.
I can't help your situation out in the real world, nor can I truly understand whatever you went through, but I can talk to you through here.

I will also agree that the feminism has been going kinda strong, especially in north america where double standards are holding a lot of social power. But I think it's also something that is in some ways needed, due to a problem with how girls who are legitimately being assaulted/oppressed/undervalued/etc, for just being themselves.

There are some people who take the feminism torch and burn anything that could in anyway "objectify" women, using the term more as a buzzword than an issue. Those people damage the movement more than helping it. Those are the type of people who may tell you that you are assholes for liking a particular game or your personal tastes in people.

But not everyone who supports feminism is trying to take down men or make fun of you. I can only advise that people who do should not be fought against but simply ignored. I'm sure most of Anita's popularity has come from just people taking arguing about her and drawing attention to her.

Ultimately, this is culture thing and not something meant to single any of you out, so you are not at fault. But also the whole affair is, at it's core, just trying to make everyone better and more accepting human beings on both sides of the fence, not just this side. I know a lot of us have a little social ineptitude to various degrees, but I'd be a fool to not want to improve myself in any way, even a little. Sticking to the old community I know is comfortable, but maybe a bigger one wouldn't hurt.