Jimquisition: Go Fish

[Ishigami]

I had to look these guys up and what happened.
Can?t say that I care much more than before tbh.

Since I can neither confirm Fish or Blow bitching about informers request nor them declining the request because of lacking information at that moment there is nothing to really base my opinion on whether either of them had a real point.

I don?t play their games therefore I don?t care is as good as it gets.

 

[shrekfan246]

What exactly did this Fish guy cop it for anyway?

I remember hearing some vague mentions of him being a bit of a knob, but nothing specific.

I think the first thing that really brought him notoriety (and the subsequent Metacritic bombing of Fez) was his comments about how all modern Japanese games and their developers were crap. Either that or when he responded to people mocking him for criticizing other developers when he hadn't had a game released yet by stating that he won an award of some sort (presumably because of pre-release Fez) and so they should "suck on [his] dick. choke on it."

OT: The thing that disappoints me the most about this whole thing and all of the events precluding it is the simple fact that the gaming community is so toxic and hostile that people who create video games receive death threats. This is a form of entertainment, designed almost purely for filling free time, and there are people who will spend days, weeks, or months endlessly harassing the developers because... what, they didn't like something about the game? Or because they said something stupid in the public eye? Everyone says stupid things in the public eye, it shouldn't have any impact on your judgement of their work if the work is completely unrelated to whatever they said.

I think Fish's reaction was overblown and juvenile, but the fact that everything piled up enough to make him react that way in the first place just makes me feel horrible about the state of the community I'm supposedly a part of.

 

[Agayek]

Go Fish

In this extra episode, Jimquisition lends a rambling mouth to the controversy surrounding Phil Fish and his dramatic exit from the videogame world.

Watch Video

I definitely agree. The gamer community is all kinds of toxic to people in positions of visibility and it really does need to change. Hopefully your position as someone on the receiving end of that kind of abuse will be enough for people to learn something. I doubt it'll happen, but a man can dream. Thank god for thee, and thanks for sharing.

 

[Airon]

Good one.

Another bite of honesty and a bit of enlightenment, pushing the conversation in good directions.

 

[Havoc Himself]

Thanks for the improvised episode Jim. I actually enjoyed it quite a lot, I agree with your points completely. I think the main thing that people forget is that Game Devs and well everyone are people. Show some empathy even if you are anonymous on the internet and such. Unfortunately that is a lot to ask from some people. Side note, don't ever quit Jim, I love your videos and think you are awesome even when I disagree with you.

 

[RJ Dalton]

Thank you, Jim, for providing me with a context in which "You are one in a million" is a bad thing.
I confess to knowing little about the subject, actually. I don't have anything to do with Twitter, so I don't really know how bad it gets. Although, I expect it gets really bad, because there's nothing for bringing out the worst in people like providing them with a platform to let their opinion reach millions of people without any effort or forethought.

 

[RTR]

I get the feeling that life isn't particularly kind to you when your last name is "Fish".

 

[AmzRigh]

On the one hand, Fish is a jerk. A lot of the harshness he received, he brought on himself. He conducted himself in a manner that showed he thought he was God's gift to video games, while also showing him to be very naïve. He is a talented game designer, certainly, but he needed a figurative kick in the pants to take him down a few pegs -- and, who knows, maybe if his detractors hadn't gone overboard, he might've learned something. I'm disappointed he decided to stop being a game designer, rather than stop being an ass, but really, I'm not surprised, either.

On the other hand, threats of physical violence are way beyond anything he deserved. Hearing about people doing that over stuff like this always saddens me -- that there could be some massive failing (of society? rearing? education?) in so many people's development that led to them being so uncivil. It's massively immature at best, and dangerously unhinged at worst. And it's such an alarmingly vocal minority in the gaming community, too.

I'll join the chorus saying I'm also a Jimquisition convert; early on, you said a lot of things I agreed with, but you just seemed so incredibly unlikable. It wasn't until I saw you at Escapist Expo, so very different from the persona you project in your videos, that my opinion of you started to change. I gave your show another chance, and I liked it. Your harsh and arrogant tone had become a jest, you'd turned around on several points that had colored my initial opinions of you, and you became better at your craft, too. It's sad to know now that you'd considered quitting, but I'm glad you instead made the choice to improve.

Phil Fish could learn from your example.

[EDIT] Sometimes wish this forum had upvotes. j-e-f-f-e-r-s came along and posted while I was writing mine, and said very well a lot of the same things I did, but with a lot more precision. Thumbs up to that post.

 

[Mylinkay Asdara]

I think that's what a lot of people who are saying "have a thicker skin" are actually trying to get out (but failing to articulate) - that combative responses are just not profitable. Many of us have learned this. You don't have to be a celebrity of any status to get the wrath of the Internet called down upon you, and I'm sure many of us have been there (or feel like we've been there - the scope with celebrity of any amount is obviously a magnifier). You were spot on with the brick wall analogy there. Lots of us realize that - and I think at least some of the thick skin comments are just a mis-statement of the idea that you should ignore the stupid people who start fights on the Internet. Then again, I have to imagine that closer to all those making that comment have snapped at some point or another in their lives.

I'd not heard of Fish before this. I don't track gaming industry personalities as a rule - some people do and that's cool for them, I'm just not one of those people who know who industry people are by name. They are those "faceless" guys to me, because I focus on their product, that's all.

I do think that Twitter is something I will continue to ignore and stay apart from, and it occurs to me that these things tend to pop up a lot in direct relation to that service so, maybe it's not actually a good thing overall. Or maybe it is and when it's bad it's just very very bad.

I've hated things done in/with/around games and been vocal about it and what grounds I had to disagree with whatever it was, but I've never ever (even in my rage about the ME3 ending, which I realize now, in retrospect, was a little more intense than it needed to be) threatened or completely personally attacked something or someone on the Internet over it. I think at some early point I even commented on this show negatively (or meant to and possibly deleted it, it happens), but I kept watching it to see if my note was taken and the product improved, because that's the process for offering constructive criticism! You offer a negative observation to the creator in a respectful way and hope that they take your suggestion into consideration, with the best possible result being they go along with your suggestion and all parties benefit. That's it. That's all there is to it. If you have leverage you can throw that in - perhaps threatening to withhold your money by not buying future products if your grievances aren't heard. To be applied in extreme cases only, obviously. Anything above and beyond that (personal digs, threats of violence, slanderous name calling, etc.) is just out of bounds. Decency people.

Damn, sorry - I had a rant moment there. It's all kinda just sad that a person could be pushed to this point in the first place and that's considered almost normal in our way of doing things somehow. Everything after that is just the additional fallout shit sandwich.

 

[Roxas1359]

I couldn't agree any more with what Jim had said. When I saw the original News Story it was heavily biased and just showed that Fish was entirely in the wrong. When it comes to this no I think that Fish could've handled it better, but Beer could have been more professional as well. When it comes to anything you do in gaming, be it reviews, news stories, Let's Plays, or develop games you will get criticism yes, but when a lot of the time that's the only type of response you get then it gets grating, it gets to you, and can put you into a depression; and with how I see how Fish is it seems like he possibly suffers from major depression at times.

For example, I've been Let's Playing for over a year now and some people will tell me things that are nice or give constructive criticism, which I love, but I've still gotten threats and have been belittled multiple times when I don't provoke anything. As Jim said, having a thicker skin doesn't make you impervious to being criticized, threatened, etc, and eventually there is gonna be a straw that will break the camels back and cause you to lash out. While I don't agree with what Fish has said in the past or how his attitude has been, I can recognize a straw that's gonna break your back. Especially when it's places like Twitter which is rather nasty a lot of the time just like the rest of the internet. I guess I feel a bit more sympathetic in that I can recognize when bullies have broken someone since I've been in a situation like that before (not me telling someone to kill themselves, but you get the point).

 

[Dominic Crossman]

I don't mean to come off as sarcastic here, as in I'm being serious.
Why did/does he go twitter/comment sections etc?
Was he required to do it as part of his job or was he hoping to get advice/feedback off the mindless gibbering jackals of the internet that seemed to target him (justly/unjustly)?
End of the of the day I feel for the guy, ass or not, that amount of crap would make anyone lash out
Oh yeah, good episode by the way Mr. Sterling, might want to do "calmer" epsiodes more often, although I do love the insane rants you do.

 

[Carnagath]

Phil Fish did provoke a lot of the abuse he got. It's kinda hard to sympathize with someone who repeatedly advertised what a clever troll he is. As for Fez, I haven't played it but I hear it's interesting. Hopefully he will calm down in the future and work on something great, without taking hourly breaks to be a douchebag on twitter.

 

[MonkeyPunch]

First off Jim. Stay with us for a long time please. You are a huge source of entertainment for me.

But I have to disagree on a point. The reason people tell other people like Fish to have a thicker skin is precisely because they talk a lot of shit themselves, for the most part. This is totally true of Fish.
Do onto others... If you put yourself out there with ridiculous comments and attack people and things, you have to expect a certain amount of flak back.
You only need a thick skin if you're a bit of a prick. You rarely see Super Meat Boy's developers in such altercations and they rarely have abuse hurled at them in the same way Fish had. No way near as much as Fish. Heck I don't even know their names off the top of my head.
It's simple maths. If you have strong opinions and you vocalise them, expect people to do the same right back at you.

Everyone who creates something for public consumption will get criticism. Fish on the other hand created a lot of hatred for himself by his own merits.

I don't want Fish out of the industry or anything remotely like that. I don't wish him harm etc. I'm pretty blasé on that subject. He made games and kicked up a fuss now and again and had tantrums. If he makes another game then good. If not, he doesn't.

Good show even though I don't really agree entirely with your vibe on this particular issue

 

[Abomination]

I have zero sympathy for people who are "offensive" (as opposed to defensive) with insults then getting butthurt because someone else was offensive at them.

Fish is some asshole who started crying because someone threw stones and broke the windows of his glass house when his back was turned. His back was turned because he was busy throwing stones at other peoples' houses.

Ultimate case of "dish it out but can't/won't take it".

 

[Chemical Alia]

I really appreciated this video. It really brings to light some of the frustrations that developers feel in relation to the consumers, and how that can build up and wear you down over time. Whether about the games they work on and devote their lives to or the devs themselves in some cases.

I occasionally indulge in "reading the comments" (though never in say, a 30 page neogaf thread about me, thanks for that), but it never accomplishes anything other than making you upset, and for as much as you'd like to respond, correct people, or retaliate, engaging in that kind of behavior only results in more negativity.

Even if the situation could have been handled a lot better on both ends, I still can't even imagine what that Fish guy goes through over something that's clearly his life.

 

[thebakedpotato]

I've done Games Support for a little bit now. I worked Xbox support back in 08 and am working for a company which has had a bit of controversy as of late. One of the facets of my job, is that occasionally I have to deal with toxic players. It's understandable, we've all been there. And a lot of the anger doesn't stem from what went wrong. But from the fact that their usual escape from the daily grind and stress hasn't worked properly.

But dealing with that side of things, in a polite and respectable way, is my job. It is the price I pay to get to say I work for a company whose games I played endlessly as a kid.

I don't play any of the games I support very much anymore. I used to. I still kind of enjoy them. But when I see the same bile I have to deal with at work, I switch into work mode. All be it a less polite version of work mode.

I don't like that. I don't like doing that. Or being that way. So I avoid it. At this point in time, I know what to avoid to make sure that the stress of work doesn't bleed into my off time.

Fish got success and exposure due to his hard work and talent and dedication. It must be harder than anything else to separate work and the bile from his day to day. But I hope he figures it out.

 

[-Dragmire-]

This is why I've never idolized being in the public eye, way too stressful.

Kudos to you Jim for being able to take it for so long, glad it's settled down a bit for you.

 

[Deathfish15]

Go Fish

In this extra episode, Jimquisition lends a rambling mouth to the controversy surrounding Phil Fish and his dramatic exit from the videogame world.

Watch Video

@Jimothy Sterling (Jim)

Got to ask, since you're on the side of Fish,:
Do you feel that the GameTrailer guy's comments (about Fish being a "blowfish") were beyond unprofessional? Do you think that him personally attacking a video game developer, the people that make his job even possible, is something that should be taken serious?
I think what I'm getting at is: Should that guy get fired?



I can understand someone saying a game is poorly made. I even understand when pointing out that developers like the guy behind The War Z are nothing but crooks [when obviously warranted]. But that's the line. To personally attack a developer for no other reason than to be a pompous asshole is to basically no longer be a reporter about video games or the industry; instead he's turned troll. And I personally think the best way to kill a troll is by fire...

 

[MoeMints]

*snip*

You know, what I like best is that SFIV is actually the worst game they could think of fighting game wise.
It has the exact opposite problem for many people where its so unintuitive, vague, and methodical at higher play, that you need to be handheld by the community instead.

 

[Impluse_101]

Thank you Jim for all your work.
I really liked hearing that there's someone else out there that agrees that Beer and Fish could have handled themselves better, as well as your words on thick skin and insults.

I've been bullied a lot in my life, and a thick skin has worked in some instances. However, there are, in a gamer sense, those crticial hits that hit the nail on your coffin to then make you go berserk.

Its sad to hear that Phil met his breaking point.
I hope he can rest.