Jimquisition: Old Man Mario

[immortalfrieza]

On the subject of rehashes, the Pokemon games have it down.

Exactly, out of all of Nintendo's IPs this is definitely their worst offender. I haven't played a (new, every once in a while I'll go back and play the older ones) Pokemon game in YEARS because of this very fact. The Pokemon games have hardly changed at all from generation to generation, their story has been "beat all the gyms, defeat a team of bad guys, then beat the Elite Four and then your rival" every single game since the francise's invention. There's only been a couple of games (Coliseum and XD) that have blown all the other games out of the water in terms of quality, and they didn't sell well, go figure.

The worst part is the blind lemminglike fans that not only snap up everything with the name Pokemon on it, but don't want any changes to the francise whatsoever, even if those changes would be perfectly beneficial to the francise as a whole. In fact, one of the first threads I ever posted was asking for innovation in the Pokemon games and giving a few suggestions, and most of what I got in response was something along the lines of "POKEMON GAMES MAKE LOTS OF MONEY, THEREFORE THEY ARE PERFECT AND DON'T NEED CHANGES!!!"

I dunno. Isn't the main appeal of the Pokemon games the Pokemon themselves? Sure, the "plot" is shite and Black and White 2 will be using the same generation as the last game but aside from that, each new generation has brought a whole new stable of Pokemon to the table along with maybe a tweak or two to the battle system and that's the draw of the series. To catch all the Pokemon.

If that were the case, they could just have each game be a few areas the player could walk around catching Pokemon and doing nothing else. The main appeal is the battling aspect, but they haven't really done much there either.

 

[ManupBatman]

We need a new Wario game...... Where we kill the Mario!

 

[Signa]

I think you're touching on something incredibly important here Jim: Level design and gameplay mechanics as art. I know you covered art games before, and it's hard to make comparisons between Super Mario and Dear Ester, but games like New Super Mario Brothers show how artistic the design of a level can be (or in NSMB case, the lack of that art and how it affects the game). Nintendo has lost their sense of that art with their Mario games. It used to be where you could go through a level one way, or you could find secrets that net you a few bonuses for skillful playing. Now the Mario games have big arrows pointing "Secret here!" and throw coins at you like they are worth nothing.

I feel like my words aren't flowing right, but I hope you read this and understand what I'm getting at.

 

[MPerce]

Uh.....everything that Jim said.

Last Mario game I bought was Galaxy, and I loved the shit out of it. The years that followed have been filled with sadness and sighs as I wait for the next Mario game that's not a clone of its predecessor.

 

[Drauger]

Mehhh Nintendo been doing this crap since crap i dont remember x_x, the last mario game i liked was mario 64 yeah ._. since then i haven have fun with a mario game, it's soo lame to see nintendo relauching the same old games over and oever and over................................. im sick and tired of Zelda the ocarine of time -.-, i wish i could see a super mario rpg 2 ... no not paper mario, no mario and luigi nope a Super Mario rpg 2.

 

[the1Jugg]

Ok, lets be honest here... Nintendo's past has been checkered when it comes to originality. Super Mario Bros was original - but not the character of Mario, he had been around since Donkey Kong. SMB 2 was only a vast departure because it was ported from a different series. SMB3 had an overworld and very recognizable themed worlds... the same as Super Mario World. SMW2 was Yoshi's island... and that was unique - but nobody wanted it. Super mario 64 was very uniqe because it was mission based. Super Mario sunshine - same as 64 but with a water cannon. Super Mario Galaxy... that was the same as 64, but with gravity all screwed up (dont get me wrong, I loved it). And SMG 2 was just that, a sequel. So, if history repeats, we can expect Mario's next real game (console release) to be a good one. You cant count the handhelds - they never were original (see Super Mario Land, etc)

 

[PunkRex]

I wasn't in to gaming when early Nintendo was about but then I found Wind Waker and Pikmin I was like 'Wow, these guys are good' so I waited... and waited... and waited... Pikmin 2 was fantastic and im about to play Skyward Sword but... thats a long time to wait for two games. Everything else seems to be the same old drival.

 

[PunkRex]

We need a new Wario game...... Where we kill the Mario!

Waluigi: OF COURSE!

 

[daxterx2005]

"New" isn't meant to be "Look its a new game" its just a horribly named series. Mario is divided into tons of different series under the same franchise. New is just the newest one....

-Super Mario Bros
-Super Mario Land
-Super Mario World
-Super Mario 64
-Super Mario Sunshine
-Super Mario Galaxy
-Mario Kart
-Mario Party
-NEW Super Mario Bros.

etc. etc.

 

[LazyAza]

Yep the very reason I've ignored the vast majority of nintendo products over the years is precisely because they all look the same to me. I think on average I can stomach about 3 iterations of a game that is extremely similar from release to release but once you get to 4+ you either kill your franchise or drastically alter it to keep it interesting.

I fucking loved all three Mass Effect games but by the end of three I was certainly thinking "yeah that's enough of this now" and I will be genuinely uninterested in a new ME game if it's just another commander shepard saves the universe with dialogue wheels and half decent cover shooting adventure.

 

[scorptatious]

Kinda have to agree. Mario is definitely showing his age now-a-days, and his games just don't interest me anymore. Super Mario 3D Land to me just felt kinda boring and rehashed. Of course it's kind of like what Yahtzee said one time, Mario has went to space, so where else is there for him to go to?

Also, what's the music towards the end of the video before the credits? I swear I heard it before from somewhere but I can't remember where.

 

[scorptatious]

I totally get what you are trying to say, and you are right to a point. However I don't agree that anyone has done what Mario does better.

Play Klonoa: Door to Phantomile.

That was a great game. My only gripe with it though is that I felt it was too short. :/

 

[Timnoldzim]

The biggest problem with Mario, in my opinion, isn't the stagnation of things that WORK (which is also bad, mind you), but rather, the stagnation of things that are outdated and DON'T work anymore- most specifically, lives. There is NO POINT in keeping lives around, and there hasn't since 1996, when Super Mario 64 let you save after avery level. Nintendo insists on keeping them around simply because they can't seem to think of what other purpose coins could serve, even though other platformers have done perfectly intelligent, non-lives-related things with them.

 

[Proverbial Jon]

Dust: An Elysian Tail looks interesting, thanks for the tip Jim! I'll be downloading it as soon as it's up on XBLA... because I looked just now and although it's listed, I can't download it.

As for Maria, I've never been much of a Nintendo fan and I've never played a single Maria game. So yeah, I can't really add anything to this discussion!

 

[Fappy]

Way to dig the ol'd "Jim is a hypocrite because of Dynasty Warriors v. Mario Kart 7" corpse

In any case I enjoyed the episode and will have to take your word for it because I don't play handhelds. I usually only concern myself with console Mario releases of which Mario Galaxy 2 was the last to my knowledge and I only played the first one. If the Wii-U can deliver a next-gen unique Mario experience that accomplishes what Galaxy did then I'll consider buying into Nintendo's next console. Maybe.

 

[JediMB]

I enjoyed New Super Mario Bros. (DS) the first time around, but quickly realized that it just didn't have the replay value of other Mario games. It felt stale. That's why it's the only game in Mario's "nostalgia series" that I actually own.

I've only briefly played NSMB Wii, and feel pretty apathetic about Super Mario 3D Land and NSMB2.

That said, I have no problems with Super Mario Galaxy 2, despite that it's pretty much just an expansion of the original Galaxy game. The mechanics still felt up to snuff, and the new content was fantastic.

Hopefully Nintendo will get back on track with their innovation for the next part in the series on the Wii U. Hard to say where they'd go from Galaxy, but some sort of dimension-hopping (utilizing the Wii U controller screen) could be cool.

 

[The White Hunter]

*sigh* Mario, Mario, Mario... how the mighty have fallen.

Having barely played Mario Galaxy 1 (like 20 minutes in a friend's house), I IMMENSELY enjoyed Mario Galaxy 2, but I hated the "New" Super Mario Bros. on both the Wii and the DS.

Having played Super Meat Boy (and achieving 100% and going for a second playthrough) and Rayman Origins, heck, even Sonic Generations... Mario is getting old. Sure, Sega took like 10+ games to get Generations right and the entire game is supposed to rely entirely on nostalgia, but at least they took everything that worked in the past and make an amalgam of awesomeness, while still feeling new enough.

Mario is getting a bit repetitive and Nintendo seems to be running out of ideas, but at least there are far worse "rehashed" games out there that ask way more money each year.

Have you played Sonic Colours?

Cuz Sega really kicked Sonic up the arse with that one it's absolutely brilliant, though Generations is amazing I did have a few issues with it that I didn't with Colours, though I'm not going over them for the billionth time.

OT: Yeah pretty much, I mean with the NSMB2 (god even the acronym sucks...) thing surely there are other themes you could have for worlds at least?

Fucking step it up nintendo.

 

[Scyla]

I'm not quite sure if I can agree with Jim on this topic and I try a different angle. So before we start I have to say that I don't own any current Nintendo system and thus none of the new Mario games. But I played ah good amount of SMG 1 and 2 and the New Super Mario wii game.

I think the problem that Nintendo has with Innovation is that the console cycle is far to long. When you look at older consoles from the NES upwards there were like 1-3 core Mario games per System. For the N64 there was only SM64 and for the Game Cube SM Sunshine (correct me if I'm wrong). Now the system is cluttered with Mario titles because Nintendo has to ship games to make profit and keep their fans and investors happy.

To make inventions you have to have time and new tech. All this was incorporated in the Super Mario Galaxy titles that are fresh and new and plain awesome. The later Mario games were just cash-ins.

So if the Mario titles for the wii U bring no innovation I have to agree with Jim. At the moment the problems seem only to occur in the latest additions to the Mario franchise I will file them under faux pas.

Also while I have to agree that Super Meat Boy is an awesome awesome game I'm not sure that it is for everyone and certainly not for every player that enjoys a Super Mario game.

As a last addition Super Mario World was just Super Mario Bros. 3 with Yoshis! Still SWM is one of my favorite Mario games.