Jimquisition: Old Man Mario

surg3n

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Fair enough, Mario games are a bit hackneyed - but I don't think it's fair to claim that Meat Boy is a better game, it's not - just because it's an indi game and liking an indi game is somehow edgy and unique, it doesn't change the fact that Meat Boy is just an average platformer. Seriously, I've played mario games a lot more than Meat Boy, and I'd rather play any Mario game than Meat Boy.

I'm not saying Meat Boy is a bad game, but it's damn over-rated... it's a hunk of meat, the gameplay mechanics are entirely unoriginal, we've seen everything in Meat Boy several times before. For me, Mario games are about the mechanics, the unique platforms for instance than rotate, or move, or desintigrate, or do anything more clever than just stand there. Mario games always try to be more than just platform games, Meat Boy is just a platform game. Rayman, is a well animated platform game. Neither Rayman nor Meat Boy has really brought anything new, it seems that in that marketplace, it's only Nintendo that get anywhere close to innovation. These games have a lot of polish, game mechanics that go beyond the standard 2D game, and that started with Mario. Look at Kirby as well for example - vastly under-rated platform games that have so many unique features, but most gamers dismiss Kirby games as shallow and aimed at children. In terms of game mechanics and complexity - Meat Boy is retarded compared to even Mario 2, it's no more complex than N+, it's a fluid and enjoyable game, but it's not gonna influence a whole industry.

Frankly I'm just glad that we don't already live in the grey and brown FPS world that AAA titles have created - I'm glad that we still have Mario games and the Wii and Nintendo to bring some colour to gaming. I'm especially looking forward to Pikmin3, which some people might dismiss as being aimed at kids, but actually it's about the most interesting, strategic, nostalgic, and challenging game series you'll come across. The gaming world needs Nintendo and Mario and all the influence that they bring - if it wasn't for Mario, then people might not even like platform games as much as they do - without Mario, platform games might never have evolved past Manic Miner.
 

malestrithe

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hurricanejbb said:
Moviebob is probably going to rage when he sees this. And it'll be fun to watch him rant like a nostaliga-blinded twit.
Follow moviebob's twitter feed? He's already seen the video, likes it, and he agrees to some of the points, calling a lot of them reasonable and sound. He is also not going to lose his mind over them. That's what teenagers and the emotionally immature do.

Those who've done some living realize that people can disagree on things and not descend into verbal shouting matches. This is not 4Chan.
 

TheScottishFella

The Know-it all Detective
Nov 9, 2009
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McMarbles said:
How did this become a topic about Bob Chipman?

Oh, right... Mario was mentioned, and as the only person on the Internet who still likes Mario (as everyone knows those games don't sell at all) who's not allowed to express his opinion, he MUST be referred to.
Probably because he is a contributor to the site who is very outspoken about how he feels about the Mario games. It's more of a case of the two people both have a show on the same site and is more likely to get into an argument. Personally I'm not interested in seeing an argument because then it's just a shit flinging contest.
 

Legion

Were it so easy
Oct 2, 2008
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brazuca said:
CoD has been doing the same for years and look what they achieved.
I think the issue lies in that no other company has done it better yet. That's what he was getting at. It's not that Mario games are same-y, it's that they are still trying to sell the same old formula when other games are already doing it better.

That's why he feels Dynasty Warriors is okay despite the repetition, because that kind of game hasn't been created more successfully by another developer yet.
 

Balkan

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Gatx said:
Dynasty Warriors is repetitive sure, but there's also been very little innovation amongst the games as a series. I mean you have the big change in 6 but then what?
I think that I have watched that episode , but still what kind of excuse is that ? Only because Mario has inovated he gets a free pass now ? I have heard him give shit to gears of war even if it was a really inovative game back in 06 . Also he gives much shit about HALO even thougt it inovated .Im not a fan of either franchises , but MovieBob is a hipocrate . Everything is bad except the things he likes .
 

Soak

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Considering we are in the Church of Jimquisition, an amen to that!
Mario Galaxy (along with Twilight Princess & SSBB) was one of the titles i bought the Wii for close after its launch.
Mario Galaxy was fresh and fun, i realy enjoyed playing it. The last funny Mario game was Bowser's Inside story and even that only for its funny writing, considering its gameplay wasn't only copied, but had mayor flaws, like doing the same stupid sequence to reactivate one of Bowser's powers for the tenth time. Then i bought Mario Galaxy 2 and i realised i bought something like a patch for a whole game. Realy, they copy-pasted about 80% of the whole friggin game, whole worlds being exactly the same! This was beyond disappoinment and the last time i bought a Mario game, still sometimes playing one at a friend, but seldom getting hooked and never feeling it would be worth buying myself. Both Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword on the other hand sure have most of the same gameplay as the other Zelda titles, but they still were emotionally engaging and had beautiful, unique worlds.
Not to mention that 95% of all games released for the Wii are shit, 3% i spend 5-10 bucks on whenever i see them on sale somewhere and 2% being the real, good games.
To me, this is a clear indicator where Nintendo is going and the direction they are taking stinks.
 

ThunderCavalier

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I have no comment on MovieBob. I agree with some of the issues he brought up on The Big Picture, and while I do disagree with some of his views in that and in his movie reviews, I overall don't find him that bad. Then again, I've tried not to pay him a lot of attention since that whole Mass Effect 3 debacle.

As for Jim, I do agree with his point that Mario's really become a sad, repetitive waste. It's really shiny aesthetic with the same old mechanics that makes up every new Mario platformer, and while they're all technically 'fun' and playable, the fact that they feel so samey doesn't make me feel like I want to spend more money on a game that I feel like I already have.

Mario simply doesn't have enough between each installment to make me feel like I'm getting my $60 worth. Kinda makes me wish that they would make a new Paper Mario or Mario & Luigi game. Those were amazing.
 

trlkly

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Jan 24, 2008
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I love how you complained about the games being the same, while showing tons of innovations, like the piano level, or the Galaxy gravity mechanic.
 

ThePS1Fan

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Evil Smurf said:
Super Paper Mario is the only recent Mario game I find fun.
I looked at it and thought about buying it but never did. I might still go back and do that though.
 

mjc0961

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Nov 30, 2009
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I was sad about no LittleBigPlanet being mentioned as whooping Mario's ass. But then you failed to mention that one really awful N64 Zelda title which just felt like OoT all over again despite being set somewhere else, and all was forgiven.

Soviet Heavy said:
I hope Moviebob watches this so he can stop squeeing over seeing a goddamn tanuki feather in a trailer.
I'm sure he'll stop squeeing just as soon as I finish writing this letter to John Riccitiello explaining why I love him and his company. In other words, NEVER.

ThunderCavalier said:
Mario simply doesn't have enough between each installment to make me feel like I'm getting my $60 worth.
Mario games don't cost $60.

SkarKrow said:
Have you played Sonic Colours?

Cuz Sega really kicked Sonic up the arse with that one it's absolutely brilliant, though Generations is amazing I did have a few issues with it that I didn't with Colours, though I'm not going over them for the billionth time.
Have YOU ever played Sonic Colors? I have. It's boring shit. No other game has been able to almost put me to sleep because it's so god-damn boring before, and no other game has since.

Terminate421 said:
Here is an idea, mix how you navigate.

The WiiU controller's screen has a way of moving, sort of swapping the controls to "iPhone" mode for a section or some element of gameplay. To keep it from being a gimmick, the whole game is centered around this while still providing the fun and challenge of a typical mario game.

Also no more lives.
NO. iPhones suck for gaming. The controller has buttons on it, and we should be using them to control the actions at all times. I don't want to keep failing at parts of the game simply because the controls suddenly turned into soggy dog shit.
 

GeneralFungi

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trlkly said:
I love how you complained about the games being the same, while showing tons of innovations, like the piano level, or the Galaxy gravity mechanic.
It really didn't sound like you were paying a whole lot of attention to what Jim was even talking about. He was bringing up that footage, explaining how Mario used to be more interesting and how Galaxy was the last Mario title he really truly enjoyed. And as much as I love Mario, I have to agree.
Balkan said:
Gatx said:
Dynasty Warriors is repetitive sure, but there's also been very little innovation amongst the games as a series. I mean you have the big change in 6 but then what?
I think that I have watched that episode , but still what kind of excuse is that ? Only because Mario has inovated he gets a free pass now ? I have heard him give shit to gears of war even if it was a really inovative game back in 06 . Also he gives much shit about HALO even thougt it inovated .Im not a fan of either franchises , but MovieBob is a hipocrate . Everything is bad except the things he likes .
You seem to have quite a lot of animosity towards MovieBob. I don't think I need to defend him, but this is a topic about discussing MARIO, not a topic where you lash out at people who like Mario. Why don't you discuss MovieBob's opinion on the Mario series in the topic where he actually discusses his opinion about the Mario series? You don't seem to actually care about the topic and just want to use it as a reason to proclaim to the world your dislike of MovieBob. There are more things to discuss in relation to this topic besides one man's opinion, but that's the only thing you and a few other people in this thread seem to be interested in.

I shouldn't even be contributing to this shit but I'll hit the post button against my better judgement.
 

Balkan

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GeneralFungi said:
trlkly said:
I love how you complained about the games being the same, while showing tons of innovations, like the piano level, or the Galaxy gravity mechanic.
It really didn't sound like you were paying a whole lot of attention to what Jim was even talking about. He was bringing up that footage, explaining how Mario used to be more interesting and how Galaxy was the last Mario title he really truly enjoyed. And as much as I love Mario, I have to agree.
Balkan said:
Gatx said:
Dynasty Warriors is repetitive sure, but there's also been very little innovation amongst the games as a series. I mean you have the big change in 6 but then what?
I think that I have watched that episode , but still what kind of excuse is that ? Only because Mario has inovated he gets a free pass now ? I have heard him give shit to gears of war even if it was a really inovative game back in 06 . Also he gives much shit about HALO even thougt it inovated .Im not a fan of either franchises , but MovieBob is a hipocrate . Everything is bad except the things he likes .
You seem to have quite a lot of animosity towards MovieBob. I don't think I need to defend him, but this is a topic about discussing MARIO, not a topic where you lash out at people who like Mario. Why don't you discuss MovieBob's opinion on the Mario series in the topic where he actually discusses his opinion about the Mario series? You don't seem to actually care about the topic and just want to use it as a reason to proclaim to the world your dislike of MovieBob. There are more things to discuss in relation to this topic besides one man's opinion, but that's the only thing you and a few other people in this thread seem to be interested in.

I shouldn't even be contributing to this shit but I'll hit the post button against my better judgement.
Im just maybe pissed at moviebob`s attitude and the whole nintendo fanbase`s . They whould give money to a company that doesnt deserve it (in my opinion )just because it reminds them of the times when they had hair .
Also im quite pissed of moviebob . For a guy who spend a lot of time giving moral speaches he sure is a hipocratical bastard . I just used it as an example in my earlier comment .
 

Muspelheim

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I don't like Mario. :< Suppose I'm off to Hague, then...

Well, honestly. The only Nintendo product I've ever owned is a Mario-themed Pez-dispencer. And even that is probably a knock-off. I'm just not very interested in Nintendo, and I don't think Mario in any form is going to enhance my life in any way.
 

Reptiloid

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Nov 10, 2010
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Care to explain what's so wrong about not liking Mario?

Don't get me wrong, I've always had a level of appreciation for the games themselves, but I've personally never liked Mario as a character, and have never quite understood what is supposed to be so endearing about him.

And yes, I did grow up with these games.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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Well, to be honest I think the problem is that Mario is, and always has been, basically a dressed up version of "Jumpman" from platforms like the Commodore 64. Over the decades Mario has really taken the basic jump-oriented platformer idea and ran with it in some crazy directions, the best games are to the point where it's very easy to forget the humble origins and the simplicity of the concept even for those that were there. The thing is that in the end you can only do so much with this basic kind of game, and truthfully Mario did more with it than I would have thought possible, but I think they have reached the limit. It's all variations on things you've seen before, but that's because there really isn't anything left to do within the rules of the franchise. Coming up with something new that works for Mario isn't as easy as you might think. Mario at it's core being flashy, and having depth, but also being extremely casual in that it's approachable to nearly anyone, with the masters being able to really showboat and do all kinds of insane things with it. The problem with most fan ideas coming from masterful Mario players (to get to the point of being bored, and having seen everything to be disappointment) is that a lot of the things they think up wouldn't really be approachable to the basic casual player. Sure you could turn Mario into "I want to be the guy" and get really sadistic with it, and some people would like that, but it wouldn't really be Mario anymore at that point.

I'll also say that a lot of the problem is that we're dealing with a gaming generation here. It's kind of exceptional that there are even franchise that have run 20+ years for this to be an issue. A guy old enough to have played SMB when it first came out on a Nintendo and then played most of the games since, is probably not considering how the newer games look to younger, less jaded gamers. Oddly the serious "hardcore fans" who have followed a franchise like this from the beginning are by becoming hardcore fans, no longer the intended audience. You can't cater to a jaded 35-40 year old veteran while retaining the same casual innocence very well, and truthfully it's bloody amazing how many times they have managed to walk that line as it is.

I do not think a lot of these other titles like "Meat Boy" and others are really better or more innovative than Mario, they are just new, and when your getting tired of something, or frustrated, people tend to wander to the fresh, similar products, and scream their praises a bit too loudly in compared to the originals.

In short, I'm not a huge Mario fan, but I think he's doing fine as things are now, as long as there are new gamers coming in, and parents willing to get products like this for their kids, Mario will continue to have a prescence. Arguably Mario is in a position where he can thrive through consistincy without any innovation at all, which is unusual, so it's pretty good that we see it holding up this well.

Would it be nice to see more from Mario? Well yes, but to be honest I think that involves going into other, but similar, generes, something that seems to have failed,in initial attempts, so Nintendo hasn't stuck with it. I seem to remember games like "Mario Sunshine" getting some decent reviews, but being commercial failures, the fans just not really being there for the games.

This is my opinion at any rate.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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connall said:
Soviet Heavy said:
I hope Moviebob watches this so he can stop squeeing over seeing a goddamn tanuki feather in a trailer.

Captcha: Be Serious Now

Yes, yes you should.
I agree, it's one reason that I rarely watch Game Overthinker anymore, on occasion he has some interesting points, but when it comes to Nintendo it seems they can do no wrong which really pisses me off. No company is perfect.
Well, if you listen to Bob and make note of his personality, politics, etc... you can see where this is coming from. Nintendo's products are simply put a perfect match for his personality and world view. I could say more, but it would be long and rambling, and I don't really want to have ongoing arguements about my analysis of Bob, so I'll just leave it at "it doesn't surprise me". Like any critic you have to take the good with the bad, I tend to still listen to a lot of his stuff because of the good points he makes, taking the areas where I don't agree with him with a grain of salt. (and no, this is not tied in any way to people claiming Mario as a socialist icon or anything).

Personally I could give or take Mario, I don't hate him, but I wouldn't call myself a fan of his games either.

Speaking for myself the companies I felt "could do no wrong" simply didn't survive, a lot of them sold out and ceased to be what they were under new management, or just died. I don't really have any favorites when it comes to video games anymore. Bioware was the last one I really defended, and after Mass Effect 3, and Dragon Age 2 they have more or less lost my support, but I mostly feel they died because of selling out to EA.

There is a chance, albiet a small one, that if Richard Garriot really gets going again and can recapture the old magic without getting tied into something like EA or Activision that I might become a company fanboy again. To say that the Ultima games were among my favorites of all time would be an understatement, if he goes back to single player game development like he's commented on, and gets that mojo back with some new series... well I've long dreamed of it. Of course it's been a loooong time, so I'm not holding my breath any more than I am for someone like DW Bradley getting a team together to actually make Wizardry 9. :)
 

TheScottishFella

The Know-it all Detective
Nov 9, 2009
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Therumancer said:
connall said:
Soviet Heavy said:
I hope Moviebob watches this so he can stop squeeing over seeing a goddamn tanuki feather in a trailer.

Captcha: Be Serious Now

Yes, yes you should.
I agree, it's one reason that I rarely watch Game Overthinker anymore, on occasion he has some interesting points, but when it comes to Nintendo it seems they can do no wrong which really pisses me off. No company is perfect.
-snip, snip-
I completely understand where Bob comes from with Nintendo, since that is the company he grew up with as a child and Bob does raise some great points, but when he does a TGO that is a general overview of the industry the episode really suffers because of his attachments to Nintendo.

Again I understand why he does it, and it's really understandable but his episodes can suffer as a result of it.