Jimquisition: The Xbox One: A Lying Failure Machine

lnin0

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I like the Xbox One and enjoy Kinect voice control to manage my game playing and TV viewing. Did it live up to the hype machine MS peddled leading up to and shortly after its release - probably not...but then, what does?

I don't blame MS for having a poorly communicated vision of the future. I won't say they have a poor vision of the future because, frankly, nobody waited to see it through. Granted, I think a lot of the old management team put the cart before the horses. Misguided as they may have been, you have to realize in a huge organization there are a lot of voices deciding how things get spun.

I surely won't discount the idea that drm and digital distribution is the future. You would be an idiot to not think that is the case. Sony may have trolled MS for a quick win over the entire drm thing, but don't fool yourself, it wasn't because Sony is the gamers friend trying to stave off the death knell of physical media. They did it because, at the time, they had no answer to Microsoft's features. Features which, btw, where introduce a couple months later by Steam and people gushed with love for Valve.

I am glad to see major changes from the top down with the Xbox division - from the leads to the marketing. Not that I wish any ill will to those folks but the new team seems to have a much more gamer centric vision. So far, I like what I have seen. Does it make it all better, no but I won't fault MS for trying to right the ship, even if it did have to take on water first. Same thing happen to Sony when it launched the PS3 and they were better for it as well.
 

jut22

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This line of thinking from Jim is what got me banned from Neo Gaf. I can provide the posts, but I was saying how, at the time of the Kinect removal, MS shouldn't be applauded for removing the Kinect when the early adopters were lied to and screwed over.

Way to speak the truth Jim.
 

disgruntledgamer

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I'm not one to say "Thank you Sony" after every post like some PS fanboys but without the PS4s success we would of gotten the "Always Online" "TV box" Microsoft wanted, and if they ever get the monopoly the originally think they had that's what we'll end up getting and that's a scary thought......
 

ExtraDebit

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I think microsoft's window trend is happening to their consoles department as well. Remember how we always get one good windows then one back windows then another good windows again?

win98 <--good
win me <---bad
win xp <---- good
win vista <----bad
win 7 <---good
win 8 <---bad

This is happening all over again for the consoles, it's a microsoft thing, they need to sandwich some shit between the good stuff.
 

NuclearKangaroo

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the last couple of years ive had no shortage of reasons to hate microsoft

not only their initial plans for the xbox one were beyond disgusting and heave rightfully earned them a loser console and a whole bunch of backpedaling, but on the PC front they seem to actively poison the ecosystem, with the trainwreck that is windows 8 and the blasphemy that is GFWL
 

Metalrocks

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lol, from hong kong. good to know im not the only one here who keeps watching escapist videos.

well, good thing i dont intend to buy a xbone since im a pc gamer anyway. but even if i would be a console gamer, i sure will stay far away from the xbone and 100% get a PS4.
 

Atmos Duality

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Jimothy Sterling said:
5:08 in video
"...Without saying sorry for treating us (early adopters) like fucking idiots."
Why should they apologize to the early adopters?
They were the ones foolish enough to buy an Xbone in spite of all that was disclosed, dissected, and debunked.

If anything, Microsoft would be better if that kind of stupidity were encouraged, and they know it.

EDIT: And there's the Xbone corporate apologists right on schedule spouting the same "Media center" bullshit excuse like it ever meant anything.

Lets get one thing straight: Xbox is a gaming brand. It started as a gaming brand, it was built as a gaming brand and the mass market KNOWS it as a gaming brand thanks to 13+ years of reinforcement. So to suddenly turn around and say "it's not gaming but media in general" is not only weak, it's royally fucking stupid from a marketing perspective because it isn't playing to the brand's strengths.

Marketing it as a console with media features, now THAT makes far more sense.

Because nobody looking for a pure media box is going to sink 500 bucks on an Xbone when you can get the entire package for less than half that, or if you're looking for more bang for 500 bucks, just get it all in a PC (or smart TV if you're wealthy AND lazy).

So lets just cut the marketing bullshit and evaluate the Xbone for what it actually is: A game console with some extra media features.
 

bug_of_war

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VinLAURiA said:
Yeah, but the major difference is that it only took one instance of backlash for Sony to do a reversal. Xbox One came out, said that the DRM and Kinect were integral to the machine for months and months, only getting rid of the DRM close to launch because they realised that gamers be they casual/niche/hardcore/*insert more shit here* were all moving over to the cheaper and more favourable PS4. And as for the Kinect, it was only until their sales dropped below the Wii U (a console that was arguably marketed just as poorly) that they finally got rid of the machine that was making it more expensive than the PS4. The big difference here is that Sony listened instantly, Microsoft did not.

OT:

Yeah dude...we're all quite aware that Microsoft have been pretty shitty as of late, your previous videos are still up on this site, this kinda just seems like a re-tread to make up for a majority of people disagreeing with you on your last video.
 

Something Amyss

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theApoc said:
So Jim is complaining about a situation that he and the others who are like him created? You are complaining because they backed off of creating a media device and subsequently neutered it to stop the whining of people like yourself? It had clear potential that was eliminated the moment the company started making decisions based on game reviewers and silly rant videos.
The issue at hand is neither that the Kniect exists or that they've changed their policies, but rather that they ignored their consumers and now have the temerity to talk about payer choice. Unless you're somehow arguing Jim and others like him forced Microsoft to lie to, ignore, dismiss, and even take shots at their customers, then no. They didn't create the situation.

Kinect may not be ready for prime time. But it is better than it was, and it will continue to get better still. And 5 years from now, people will wonder how there was every a device that wasn't spacial aware and capable of true voice command.
That's awesome. Maybe they should have waited five years, since that will almost certainly require revised hardware. Maybe they shouldn't have tried to bundle it. Maybe they shouldn't have tried to bullshit us.

The only thing the failed to do was emphasize the strengths of the kinect as its own thing. Instead they keep trying to tie it to gaming.
Fitting, since the Xbone is largely a gaming console.

MS has a terrible marketing department, for all of their devices and all of their software. Not because of what they are producing, but rather because they are marketing these things as if they are following rather than innovating.
Errr...Have you paid attention to the last year? They didn't follow. They ignored pretty much everyone. They dictated their own reality. They did what you think is positive. And they got eaten alive.

Oddly enough, no matter how awesome you and MS think Kinect is, people don't want it.

The PS4 is no more relevant than the XBOX one, and that has nothing to do with fanboys or hardware. There was no real need for current gen, and they would have been a lot better off waiting until they were able to mass produce true next gen experiences. Until developers can utilize these devices 100%, both machines are a complete waste of money.
By the time they were capable of mass producing a "true next gen experience" the concept of "next gen" would have moved. Welcome to the new era. You want 4K output? 8K is already on the horizon (and "on the horizon" is generous). Better hardware will always be on the horizon, and these boxes are going to keep running into these issues. Meanwhile, while you're telling Sony and Microsoft to wait, people are designing games for hardware nearly a decade old. If nothing else, this gen deals with that. And honestly, that's about all any successive gen is likely to do.

That is, if you want an affordable box. And Microsoft made themselves less affordable by trying to force something the market didn't want. While trivial in the long run, Sony offered somewhat more power at 80% of the price, and that is relevant to the consumer. Sorry, but it is.
 

EffectiveKill

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ticklefist said:
Well like the video says, we all knew this was bullshit a year ago.

I think a more topical video would be one that calls out Sony for releasing a new console but little else.
Never going to have unfortunately, from what I have seen of The Escapist, it would not be in Jim's best interest to write/ make a video about anything negative about Sony, even though they have an equal history of fucking over consumers and getting away with it.
 

RedDeadFred

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May 13, 2009
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Not that I don't agree with everything that was said in the video, but... Can we for once get a video that isn't constant complaining about the shitty nature of the games industry? It's getting depressing. Is there nothing good to celebrate at all? I haven't been watching Jim for that long so maybe complaining incessantly is just his thing.
 

Infernal Lawyer

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jut22 said:
This line of thinking from Jim is what got me banned from Neo Gaf. I can provide the posts, but I was saying how, at the time of the Kinect removal, MS shouldn't be applauded for removing the Kinect when the early adopters were lied to and screwed over.

Way to speak the truth Jim.
Please, do.
 

jackpipsam

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This episode felt rushed together, as if there was nothing to talk about, but hey let's get mad about something without much meat or meaningful discourse.

Hopefully next weeks will be back to normal greatness from Jim.
 

votemarvel

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ExtraDebit said:
I think microsoft's window trend is happening to their consoles department as well. Remember how we always get one good windows then one back windows then another good windows again?

win98 <--good
win me <---bad
win xp <---- good
win vista <----bad
win 7 <---good
win 8 <---bad

This is happening all over again for the consoles, it's a microsoft thing, they need to sandwich some shit between the good stuff.
To be honest I've never understood the dislike of Windows ME. It was really just Windows 98 Third Edition.

I used it quite happily for a very long time and it was only that 'The Battle for Middle-Earth' would only run on Windows XP, that I moved on from it.

While I used both Vista and 7, I honestly feel that now Windows 8 is better than both of them. With the .1 and Spring Updates the system is finally where it needs to be for desktop users.

Of course it still has its irritations for me. Such as user account control being split across the Metro and Classic control panels, but to be honest I can live with that.

Windows 8 for me runs a lot better than Windows 7 did on my system. Plus to be honest I don't even miss the Start Menu any more.

As to the current gen consoles. I don't see myself getting either a PS4 or an Xbox One for a long time to come. I'll likely pick them up near the end of their life cycle.
 

FFMaster

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Major issue with this video, why is going back on stuff that the general public disliked a BAD thing? They did apologize in various videos that have already been linked and they removed most of the crap. This is coming form a person who thought they should burn in hell for all the stuff they pulled at the start of the generation as well.

It shouldn't be forgotten that they pulled this rubbish (in case they try it again)but they shouldn't be eternally condemned when they actively fixed the issues that they caused.

Lets compare this to Sony, the ones who can do no wrong (because if you point out what they are doing wrong you get a pitchfork enema), they have released a godo system, but still its lacking features they said they would add (MP3, DLNA), its still lacking that watch then join in feature they showed during the console reveal (when he "joined" a killzone match after watching it). The Main UI people have finally realized will get cluttered quickly and still no external HD.

But this is never mentioned, surly its just as bad to not fix features/add promised features?

I'm guessing from Jims mention about next week and the week afters videos that hes also going one for the PS4 and the WiiU so they will be interesting to see and maybe this will get mentioned, but it still seems weird to demonize a company for fixing issues, even if they did cause the issues in the first place.

Oh I'm also in the "Sony were going to do it to" camp when it came to the DRM due to the whole patenting tech to do it etc etc stuff.

EffectiveKill said:
ticklefist said:
Well like the video says, we all knew this was bullshit a year ago.

I think a more topical video would be one that calls out Sony for releasing a new console but little else.
Never going to have unfortunately, from what I have seen of The Escapist, it would not be in Jim's best interest to write/ make a video about anything negative about Sony, even though they have an equal history of fucking over consumers and getting away with it.
It won't happen because of readership, currently Sony lives in a bit of a echo chamber with its fans decrying how good it is, and a lot of sites (neogaf mostly but occasional negative thread, eurogamer) won't say anything bad about them. You say bad things fans get annoyed and wont' click, bad things about MS and Nintendo get lots of clicks from people who post "ha sony still kicking there arses".

Kinda worried that Sony is heading back into the arrogance mode that bought us the PS3 release :/
 

gamegod25

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Imp Emissary said:
LenticularHomicide said:
> Last week: Slams EA and Ubisoft for apologizing after they lie and fuck up.
> This week: Slams Microsoft for not apologizing after they lie and fuck up.


(Yes, I know that in EA and Ubisoft's case it was because the apologies were ass-covering disingenuous PR fuckery, but the parallel here was too amusing to not point out.)
Hehehe. Out of context that is a little funny. ;)

I hope you're not the only one to not forget about what they tried to do with the X-box One, Jim.

It's good that they had a change of course, but they fought hard to try and keep it the way it was.
Yeah it's like your boy/girlfriend saying they won't cheat on you from now on and isn't that great of them! Good to hear but doesn't change the fact they were pulling shit behind your back in the first place. Nor is it anything close to an apology.

They can back peddle all they want and try to offer a few free games to compare with PS Plus...it doesn't matter to me. This generation I am the consumer dog that finally got pushed too far and bit back. They will not be selling me an Xbone...not now, not ever.
 

theApoc

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klaynexas3 said:
theApoc said:
Every bonus you just stated for the always-on part is something that could be done if a person just leaves it connected to the internet, but not having to require it. Some people don't want to have to connect to the internet to play games on a console. Over half of the 360 user base did not have XBL accounts, and so most likely were not connected to the internet at all times. Therefore, with that policy alone, Microsoft alienated half of their consumer base. The advantages, in today's world, do not out weigh the disadvantages.

As for the Kinect, there is also no reason to have been required, as seen by the fact that the XBone is doing better now without it. While it might add more ways to interact with the game, it should have remained an option. As with the "less fiddling about for non-gamers," I have to ask, how? Are they so brain dead to not know how to use a controller? If they're wanting to use TV, Netflix, Hulu, anything like that, shouldn't they know how to use a remote? A controller is simply a remote meant to be held for longer periods of time. So that shouldn't be the case.

There are so few advantages to the tier 1 XBone that, for so many people, do not out weigh the disadvantages. That is what's so anti-consumer about it.
They had doubled their XBLA userbase in the two year prior to XBOX ONE's launch, and it continues to grow, the reasons for the constant connectivity were clear. There was no alienation when almost every major release in the past year has come out for both 360 and XBOX ONE, they were well aware of the transition.

The Kinect is not required, but it should have been bundled. It should not have been compromised for games. If it were optimized as an interface tool, had they focused on the video conferencing aspect, those types of things, it would have made more sense. Especially since it uses skype and thus can connect to anyone doing the same.

They really just caved to critics like Jim, and will now just delay the inevitable. The kinect or something like it will become ubiquitous in peoples homes and no one is going to think twice.
 

Magmarock

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LenticularHomicide said:
> Last week: Slams EA and Ubisoft for apologizing after they lie and fuck up.
> This week: Slams Microsoft for not apologizing after they lie and fuck up.


(Yes, I know that in EA and Ubisoft's case it was because the apologies were ass-covering disingenuous PR fuckery, but the parallel here was too amusing to not point out.)
Hmmm yeah as much as I love Jim I'm going to have to agree with the point made here.

I don't particularly have any affection for Microsoft, but in all honesty I don't think they are anywhere near as bad as EA or Actervision. MS might not have openly apologise, but their actions do tell a different story. EA says their sorry while not going anything Ubisfot says DRM is a waist of everyone time but still uses it. Microsoft didn't do much talking but they did take action. I did remove the DRM and the connect from the system which actually makes me kind of like them at this point. They are stubborn and arrogant but by the end of the day they have officially made more changes for the consumers favour then EA, Actervision, or Ubistoft.

When Microsoft shows more customer care then your company you're doing it wrong
 

theApoc

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Zachary Amaranth said:
The issue at hand is neither that the Kniect exists or that they've changed their policies, but rather that they ignored their consumers and now have the temerity to talk about payer choice. Unless you're somehow arguing Jim and others like him forced Microsoft to lie to, ignore, dismiss, and even take shots at their customers, then no. They didn't create the situation.
They did not "ignore" their consumers. They catered to them. They ignored the fickle gaming community and got bashed for it. Huge difference. The only failing they have right now would be in caving to the Jim Sterlings of the industry.

That's awesome. Maybe they should have waited five years, since that will almost certainly require revised hardware. Maybe they shouldn't have tried to bundle it. Maybe they shouldn't have tried to bullshit us.
It actually is a software thing, which is getting better all of the time. The kinect is an amazing device when considering how cheap it is to make. LOTS of researchers are using the device for some pretty crazy things, none of which have anything to do with gaming. MS should double down on it as a peripheral and ignore it in terms of gaming.

Fitting, since the Xbone is largely a gaming console.
Entertainment console. For all of the claims that they lied about XBOX ONE, it has been presented a a multi-media hub from day one.

MS has a terrible marketing department, for all of their devices and all of their software. Not because of what they are producing, but rather because they are marketing these things as if they are following rather than innovating.
Errr...Have you paid attention to the last year? They didn't follow. They ignored pretty much everyone. They dictated their own reality. They did what you think is positive. And they got eaten alive.

Oddly enough, no matter how awesome you and MS think Kinect is, people don't want it.
Gamers don't want it, and only gamers thinks PS4 is "winning" any more than Wii won last time. Units sold are great, but usage, something that has been growing dramatically for MS and XBLA, well that is something else altogether. "Eaten alive" that's funny...

The PS4 is no more relevant than the XBOX one, and that has nothing to do with fanboys or hardware. There was no real need for current gen, and they would have been a lot better off waiting until they were able to mass produce true next gen experiences. Until developers can utilize these devices 100%, both machines are a complete waste of money.
By the time they were capable of mass producing a "true next gen experience" the concept of "next gen" would have moved. Welcome to the new era. You want 4K output? 8K is already on the horizon (and "on the horizon" is generous). Better hardware will always be on the horizon, and these boxes are going to keep running into these issues. Meanwhile, while you're telling Sony and Microsoft to wait, people are designing games for hardware nearly a decade old. If nothing else, this gen deals with that. And honestly, that's about all any successive gen is likely to do.

That is, if you want an affordable box. And Microsoft made themselves less affordable by trying to force something the market didn't want. While trivial in the long run, Sony offered somewhat more power at 80% of the price, and that is relevant to the consumer. Sorry, but it is.
And you know who realized this? MS. Which is why XBOX ONE was not designed to be a super gaming rig with 3k worth of parts inside. If people want 8k graphics, guess what, they will do that on a PC. Fruit Ninja need next gen? Fez? Peggle? Because those are the things that a lot of average people are playing, just like they are using netflx, hulu, youtube, redbox, etc. Media content delivery and sales. MS is behind the times? Um, no. The built a device that was right in line with what people were ready to have in their living room. "OMG it looks like a cable box..." Ayup, it looks that way on purpose, it blends in for that very reason. Yup it plays games, and it does it just as well as PS4, anyone who tell you differently is to nerdy to matter. They are backing off to shut some of the fanboys up as they get ready to release some bigger titles in the fall. The device is still capable of a lot of things, and I am betting gen2 is going to prove that.
 

theApoc

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Blue Ranger said:
Oh, look, it's one of these guys who doesn't have one god damned clue about anything. There is nothing about these features that you mentioned that required an always online internet, contrary to what you want to believe.

Also, these "alternate control peripherals" are still there. People can still get a Kinect if they want. However, having an alternative control method doesn't mean it should be a requirement and the only control method. Think about that before speaking.
You are pretty sure of yourself for being completely wrong. I applaud you for that.

Always online is required if you want it to happen automatically and to be as unobtrusive as possible. Every internet connected device I have is "always on-line" you know why? Because it is more convenient that way. Claiming that there was some MS conspiracy to screw the customer by wanting constant connectivity is silly. It makes it easy for them to keep the machine up to date, to deliver content when the device is not in use, and to diagnose issues. Just like any other internet connected PC.

Does the kinect need to be used to operate the XBOX one? I mean is it the only way to control the thing, or to play games? Complaining about them charging for an included peripheral is plain silly. Hey, when I bought my TV, I didn't need 4 HDMI ports or a USB port for playing music and pictures, do you think Smasung was trying to screw me by adding those in and charging more than some other brands?

You truly are clueless. Must be boring in summer school.