Jimquisition: Why PC Gaming Gets Away With It

[Chaos Marine]

I don't really post on The Escapist, but can I just say that Steam is an absolute rip off when it comes to new games. In fact over in Ireland Gamestop can undercut Steam with a physical retail copy of a PC game by ?20 euro. I never understood the myth about Steam being this bastion of excellence and the main reason to own a PC.

Sure, it has those great sales and they are great, but if I want a game upon release I would have to wait up to a year before it becomes anyway affordable on Steam.

Honestly, with Steam. I really just don't get it. Someone enlighten me, please.

As someone who lives in Ireland, I'd like to point out that; good luck finding any games at all. Most game shops have maybe one, possibly two stand or wall sections of games and the majority of those tend to be older, budget titles.

I am a huge Steam proponent and I agree, the prices are ridiculous at best. Company of Heroes just came out an hour or two ago and it's about eighty euros which is insane. Why do I still recommend Steam though? Wait till Christmas where it will be twenty or thirty euros.

 

[Ishigami]

I don't know.
Jim says I have free choice on the PC but do I really have it?
Aren't all those stores Jim mentioned not simply selling codes for Steam? - Skyrim will use Steam no matter where you buy the code.
All EA games will use Origin no matter where you get the code from.
Why shouldn't it be possible to buy the code for a XO game from one of these stores as well?
Why is it that we assume that the only source for the code will be the XBox Live Market Place?
As for the ?security? isn't this some sort of false feeling? - Sure Valve and Steam is currently doing well and there is no immediate danger that they go down the gutter but people thought so about THQ as well at some point...

GoG.com is nice but as their title indicates they are specialized in selling old games. Unless you are into playing games around 10 years old there is not much else to see.

 

[Rattja]

I liked the idea of consoles, until they stopped being just plug and play.
The moment I had to install/update stuff just like on my PC I just did not see the point anymore.

That aside, here is something I just LOVE about gaming on a PC.

I finish a game, let's say Grimrock, and I like the game and want more. The story is over and I don't want to do it again. A few mouse clicks later I have a bunch of user created maps that are actually really good, with a whole new story and I can keep playing! Thank you steam workshop.

Or another great example is The Secret World, where the gear management system STILL don't work, over a year after it was released. But know what? It does not matter, as other people have made a fix for it that works much better.
Funcom won't fix it, so players do, because they can, they are allowed.

Or let's say a game don't work right, some sort of issue, and the developers can't/won't fix it. If it's a big enough deal, you can bet your ass that there is a fix somewhere on the net.

It's comforting to know that there are people out there that can and will fix stuff, or make fun things for my games, other then the ones who made the game. This is something consoles just can't do because they are as closed as they are.

I like the idea that games are this fun world, where you can have more fun with them other than just playing them as is.

Mods are more than just silly stuff, they can actually fix a broken game, don't underestemate the importance of that.

 

[jmarquiso]

Such as Origin are just the spawn of satan and should never be allowed to see the light of day. .

Origin is not so bad actually, the myths about it being "spyware" have been completely debunked. It only accesses the files it needs, people saw it accesses the users document file and freaked. Steam does it too, they stash driver and preference profiles and saved games folders and other things in there. People looked for evidence on the way it communicates with its severs.

They found none.

People are spreading myths because of EA hate, EA have even been trying hard with Origin too. 50% sales on games and other special offers, EA still maybe shitty and it leaves a bad taste in my mouth to defend them but they seem to be learning. Dumping online passes and things and slashing prices, the Origin client itself is pretty inoffensive. It does not match Steam in functionality yet but bits and pieces are being added and changes are made all the time.




Take off your EA hate goggles and judge Origin on its own merits.

This. Origin is actually very well made and doesn't take as much Memory as Steam. That said, I rarely open it as I have like 2 games on it. I also never see adverts for EA games because of this.

 

[jmarquiso]

I don't know.
Jim says I have free choice on the PC but do I really have it?
Aren't all those stores Jim mentioned not simply selling codes for Steam? - Skyrim will use Steam no matter where you buy the code.
All EA games will use Origin no matter where you get the code from.
Why shouldn't it be possible to buy the code for a XO game from one of these stores as well?
Why is it that we assume that the only source for the code will be the XBox Live Market Place?
As for the ?security? isn't this some sort of false feeling? - Sure Valve and Steam is currently doing well and there is no immediate danger that they go down the gutter but people thought so about THQ as well at some point...

GoG.com is nice but as their title indicates they are specialized in selling old games. Unless you are into playing games around 10 years old there is not much else to see.

Not all of those stores. There are other stores, but a lot (not all) of AAA games tend to have some sort of DRM whether it be Origin, UPlay, or Steam. Steamworks DRM (this is different than the Steam Store, but they are somewhat tied together) has become very popular lately as it's free to the publisher (read: optional to the publisher) and happens to be popular among gamers due to goodwill with the company. So not *all* games, but certainly a lot of AAA games do.

That said, both Gog.com and Humblebundle have offered a DRM free storefront for indie developers, so we're seeing a lot of that as well.

 

[J Tyran]

snipped tinfoil hattery

snipped Origin stuff.

This. Origin is actually very well made and doesn't take as much Memory as Steam. That said, I rarely open it as I have like 2 games on it. I also never see adverts for EA games because of this.

That's one of Origins flaws, EA basically wanted a walled garden for EA products. People are not collecting games to the same level as Steam, they might have Mass Effect or Battlefield 3 and the Sims/Sim Shitty and thats about it. It doesn't encourage people to log in unless they want to play one of the few Origin games they have.

They need more third parties on there, they also need to pull a Ubisoft. EA where pretty dumb, they pulled all their latest games from other digital distribution services. Gamers then could only buy them retail or from Origin, Ubisoft where smart though. They sell their games through Steam and other places still, the difference is you still need to use U-Play to play the game.

That way they pull people in to their service, sounds shitty but its no different to Steamworks really. You buy a game and you have no choice but to use it, it would be better if U-Play was optional and they used honey instead of vinegar to get people to use it. Offer free DLC and cheap games along with other incentives, build it with good value and people will come.

EA could do the same, sell via as many platforms as they can. Then encourage players over to Origin with good deals and some free stuff.

 

[thom_cat_]

Isn't the thing that consoles ARE drm themselves? I mean, there is all this on top, but that's the main crux of it all.

 

[Sushewakka]

I'm still mad that retail PC games just come with Steam codes now. I remember being able to install... hell. Even Fallout 3 on multiple people's computers at once, and now everything is bolted to a single account instead. Fair enough, I guess, there's a demand for Steampowered games, but... yeah. I'm still annoyed about that.

Are you sur you can't just use your steam account elsewhere? I know it's added contrivance but you can still install from disk too with steam so you don't need to download it, so I'm pretty sure you can have it on someone else's computer.

Oh. Actually, I'm thinking about more sharing between multiple people, not just installing on multiple computers.

As long as you habilitate Steam offline mode, you can do this. My cousin and I played side-to-side with my own copy of Terraria. He was on the laptop with steam in offline mode, I was on my desktop computer.
Co-op is also doable, as long as it doesn't use Steam server browser (such as the aforementioned case of Terraria, or Torchlight 2, to cite two examples I've specifically done).

Also, as to why Steam gets away with it, I believe it was already pointed out, but the reasons, among others, are:
GoG
GreenMan Gaming
Game
Humble Store

If you do not like Steam policies, you don't have to buy games from Steam. Maybe the total available catalog is hurt a little, but the option is there.

 

[masticina]

It is hard to disagree with Jim, he is right on the spot. I don't mind steam, steam is awesome! Yes it is DRM yes it has certain software limitations in build I know. Yes it wants to check a few things..

Then again oh steam sales.. last steam sale I bought probably a bit to much games. But they are awesome relative old RPG's. The price just is right..

With PSN, well I bought the GTA IV games.. but only during the PSN Sale of it. Which to be fair came only about 2 months ago.

How long is GTA IV out.. oh yes.. yeah.. eh. Guess what I had bought it on Steam Sales WAY BEFORE.

And steam and good old games are undercutting the used market. Because you can buy "new" games without box and disc or booklet for well cheaper then the local second hand market.

And on consoles, oh geeh we are luck.. we have a Grand Theft Auto Sales.. way after the game is out. How pathetic!

And yes.. I can buy a new laptop new pc.. and just use all my steam games. I just need to activate the pc/laptop that is all.

And yes again .. do you trust Microsoft or Sony to give you those awesomeone Sales. Or like right now do the prices tend to hang around way to high for way to long.

 

[masticina]

Man, do I miss the days when I could just pick up and play on my consoles without all the bullshit.

Yeah, that's why I've moved back to playing on the PC. At least I can get the benefits of PC gaming along with the bullshit, where now with consoles it's the bullshit of PC gaming without any of the benefits.

How I play PS2 games: Put disk in tray, play.

How I play PS3/360 games: Update console, put disk in tray, update game, play.

How I play PC games: Install/download it, update it, faff about to get it to work (not always needed, though), play.

With the PS3 you also get required installations.

And with this PS4/Xbox One we pretty much all will have required installations. Trust me at times it is 20 minutes, so much for coming home and directly playing the game. Forget that one... it more and more looks like PC's. PC's with strong DRM and limitations.. but little of the gains.

Oh where I come from, I own a PS3 and yes a laptop on what I can game. I use both... but I see just how well un-console like the new generation is getting.

Yeah PS2 still had it, put the game in and play, PS3..eh first get patch..then install.. then enter your serial code. This is a pc isn't it.

 

[MasterOfHisOwnDomain]

The modding community on PC is also an astounding factor that consoles can't touch. For instance, even though it was released over a decade ago, I recently found a mod for Age of Empires II that added the equivalent of an entire expansion pack, and which got me back into playing it. Similarly, I found out recently two additional patches for a game I am playing right now, which improved the playing experience. Just small things like that, absolutely free, which you can guarantee will increase the longevity of any game you buy for PC.

 

[DoPo]

I don't know.
Jim says I have free choice on the PC but do I really have it?
Aren't all those stores Jim mentioned not simply selling codes for Steam? - Skyrim will use Steam no matter where you buy the code.
All EA games will use Origin no matter where you get the code from.

Well, some games do only require one and/or the other (EA games come on Origin, Valve games on Steam, some others like Skyrim employ Steamworks still), however that's not the case for all games
- GOG has DRM free games, doesn't interface with anything. At most, there is a GOG client you can use that should make downloading a bit easier, though I haven't tried it - I still use the old fashioned "download and install".
- Green Man Gaming, while it does resell keys for Steam/Origin, also has its own distribution platform called Capsule which is really simplistic in function - downloads games only. But any of the actual games you get from GMG you can trade back in for store credit.
- GameFly also have their own client as well as reselling keys. I haven't used it, though.
- Gamer's Gate should be in the same boat but I believe they resell even less games. Should be mentioned that their client is downloader only.
- Desura are a digital distribution platform.
- the Humble Bundles, while they offer Steam keys with the purchase, are not Steam games, as you can just download them separately, too.

EDIT: I forgot
- Uplay is...well, you can also get games though it and use it as a DD client. Though my (limited) experience with it was that it was a bit crappy. Then again, it might have improved since then.
- Perfect World don't have third party DRM. As far as I know, that is.
- You can buy some games directly from the developer and some times the publisher. Most of the dev-distributed games should come by themselves. I've not tried the publisher distributed games, so I dunno. I'd assume they don't come as a Steam/Origin key, though.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

That said, both Gog.com and Humblebundle have offered a DRM free storefront for indie developers, so we're seeing a lot of that as well.

The best thing about GOG is they don't use a regional pricing scheme anymore.

HEAR THAT, GABE? ONE FUCKING PRICE FOR EVERYONE.

Bah, who am I kidding... Gabe never comes here, he's over at RPS.

 

[LaochEire]

I don't really post on The Escapist, but can I just say that Steam is an absolute rip off when it comes to new games. In fact over in Ireland Gamestop can undercut Steam with a physical retail copy of a PC game by ?20 euro. I never understood the myth about Steam being this bastion of excellence and the main reason to own a PC.

Sure, it has those great sales and they are great, but if I want a game upon release I would have to wait up to a year before it becomes anyway affordable on Steam.

Honestly, with Steam. I really just don't get it. Someone enlighten me, please.

As someone who lives in Ireland, I'd like to point out that; good luck finding any games at all. Most game shops have maybe one, possibly two stand or wall sections of games and the majority of those tend to be older, budget titles.

I am a huge Steam proponent and I agree, the prices are ridiculous at best. Company of Heroes just came out an hour or two ago and it's about eighty euros which is insane. Why do I still recommend Steam though? Wait till Christmas where it will be twenty or thirty euros.

Gamestop online store and Amazon have a massive selection of brand new PC games. I don't PC game anymore, but if you want a physical copy and can wait 3 days Gamsetop has the likes of COH2 for a tenner cheaper and because it requires Steam anyway you get a digital copy as well.

So, I don't really recommend Steam. I do at Christmas and Summer mind you, but it's a lottery if they'll pick the game you want.

 

[Aldain]

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I find your post interesting. A quick google search does show that some people were concerned about some features of origins. For example the scanning your whole computer thing (not just my documents). However the only thing close to "debunked" I could find is a statement of EA that sais that origins doesn't contain spyware.

OT:
If DRM is something that is truly evil and should be a practice that shouldn't even exist. Why would sugarcoating it change anything in anyones opinion?

However if sugarcoating it (as is apparently done with steam) does change ones opinion on DRM to "well if you add enough benefits, I dont care anymore" is DRM then truly that big of an issue?

(Yes I used some generalisation, its more about the idea than about the specifics of this situation)

 

[J Tyran]

Snip

Snip

I find your post interesting. A quick google search does show that some people were concerned about some features of origins. For example the scanning your whole computer thing (not just my documents). However the only thing close to "debunked" I could find is a statement of EA that sais that origins doesn't contain spyware.

You have to check out some enthusiast and overclocking forums for the details, those guys know their stuff and pull software to pieces to see whats what. Most report innocent ProcMon searches and noone found any evidence of data packets of private information leaving the computer. I have not got the links at hand atm, this was just over a year ago so I am not sure where they are.

If you are interested there is a lot of debate among the enthusiasts about Origin.

 

[DoPo]

I find your post interesting. A quick google search does show that some people were concerned about some features of origins. For example the scanning your whole computer thing (not just my documents). However the only thing close to "debunked" I could find is a statement of EA that sais that origins doesn't contain spyware.

And the only evidence of it being spyware is some random people on the Internet saying it is. Yet that seems to you to be more likely somehow.

OK, I can't find the links right now because of all the tons of results of basically the same story, however, people who actually know what they are doing did test Origin and saw what it did. It did none of the weird stuff a whole bunch of scaremongers say it may be doing (and they do make sure they put "may" in there, in order to have an easy way out). Origin did nothing out of the ordinary, nor did it send any weird information. I recall that one person specifically saying that Origin doesn't call ReadFile on anything it doesn't need to. Now, of course unless Origin is bypassing the Windows API or is psychic, then it's impossible to be...you know, reading those files.

I've yet to see any actual proof of it "spying". It's mostly "but it MIGHT be spying. Because it's EA" as if that's some sort of argument. And then others repeating it "because it's EA". And others. And others. Until you have pages of search results being "it MIGHT be spying on you" of the whole thing being parroted over and over with no actual proof. And any actual relevant results are gone. Shame, should have bookmarked them.

I notice you said nothing fundamentally different, though if you do have any actual information, feel free to share it.

 

[Lightknight]

The PS4 runs on a tablet APU. It may be better than a PS3, but it is god awful. Especially at the rumored 1.84 Ghz compared to what Intel puts out now.

I doubt its ever going to beat a 7 series Radeon, which would be commonplace by the time it rolls around.

First off, you correctly used the word "rumored" in your point. Debating with "rumors" is a lot like taking a lie at face value in the given category of the discusion. Both console CPUs are custom made and so the rumor isn't necessarily likely to be true. This is one of the last bits of information that hasn't been confirmed or denied.

The PS4 has 18 CUs generating 1.84 teraflops of processing power in the GPU alone. You're looking at a 7 series Radeon though not the upper tier of the 7s. Since when do people compare a CPU to a video card anyways? I doubt that sound card is ever going to beat that raid card... Two different components that work together.

It isn't going to be a high-end machine, but it will be a huge step up from the previous generation and is remarkably cheap compared to what you can get for comparable cash in the pc market. Especially one that's already made/put together like the ps4 is. I think the pricing is pretty spot on and these consoles will be the standard specs of the coming generation. So it isn't like having a more powerful pc would actually help you play more games. So you have to ask yourself about the need for anything more powerful. Skyrim was prettier on my pc. Yes, if I'm a graphiophile then my pc is king. But with what kind of graphics were already on the console version of recent console games then the next generation should be spectactular. At some point you have significant diminishing returns when you have a $1,500 system that is only marginally prettier than the console versions. Things can only look so real before they look real. Aside from the eye candy, everything under the hood is typically the same regardless of the system you play it on. Scripting and AI processing won't change because they'll have been made with the lowest common denominator in mind (the consoles in this case).

It's still not pitching all that good of a gaming rig. The ps4 is shaping up to be a lot more powerful than the $500 system and for $400. The ps4 has found a kind of sweet spot for the price and convenience. Though this guy did pretty darn well on that price point.

Two things:

- You are comparing two machines that have more than 9 months of difference in hitting the market. Not sure if that even makes any sense.

- While you technically don't own the BIOS for a PC or a PS. On PC you can mod it and have different options, the PS 3 taught us that you only own the metal and plastic in the machine and Sony is willing to take away sale features that they deem useless (linux) and sue modders. At the current technology rate it seems probable that you will be able to build a machine on par with the PS 4 for $500-$550 USD in the US, I would consider that $100 buck difference the price of owning and not leasing the hardware.

That said I might buy a PS4 because fucking Capcom forces the fighting community to stay on consoles.

These are fair points. However, please note that as the generation goes along, developers will learn to optimize their software in a way that only benefits the consoles, getting more out of the hardware than you'd get out of a comparable pc. This is, again, why Skyrim was playable on a console that had stupidly divided 512MBs of Ram and a 5/6 year-old processor that required developers split up all the assets into specific categories that would crash if one ever got too big. The minimum pc requirements were significantly higher and playing it on a 512MB pc would have quickly resulted in a broke system if it worked at all.

The difference between the systems is besides the point. The consoles will continue to be the standard environment that devs are shooting for in order to be playable for the widest market. This is why this generation has almost no games that are unable to be scaled down to the consoles but are designed for the pc. The limited market numbers just don't make sense. On the pcs you'll quickly have to worry about video card compatibility and other such things. The consoles will still be standard.

Guess what?

The PC is modular.

The PS is not.

I have an excellent PC. But when it comes time to upgrade the processor I'll likely have to replace the motherboard which will in turn mean that some of the video cards and such that I have installed currently will no longer be compatible with the next module. The ps4 on the other hand, will be directly programmed for and will always be able to pay games for it without you having to open the box or care about modularity.

FYI, I am disappointed that this generation of consoles isn't more modular. They took a good step last gen with the HDD but haven't gone further. But I guess modularity would be hard to implement when the entire draw of two major consoles (sorry Nintendo) is that the standardization has significant and long term benfits.

 

[Tanakh]

These are fair points. However, please note that as the generation goes along, developers will learn to optimize their software in a way that only benefits the consoles, getting more out of the hardware than you'd get out of a comparable pc. This is, again, why Skyrim was playable on a console that had stupidly divided 512MBs of Ram and a 5/6 year-old processor that required developers split up all the assets into specific categories that would crash if one ever got too big. The minimum pc requirements were significantly higher and playing it on a 512MB pc would have quickly resulted in a broke system if it worked at all.

The difference between the systems is besides the point. The consoles will continue to be the standard environment that devs are shooting for in order to be playable for the widest market. This is why this generation has almost no games that are unable to be scaled down to the consoles but are designed for the pc. The limited market numbers just don't make sense. On the pcs you'll quickly have to worry about video card compatibility and other such things. The consoles will still be standard.

Humm, almost, but not quite. As the gen goes along developers will focus on optimizing the programs for consoles, benefiting everyone but mostly the consoles and getting good looking games running on them with less raw processing power; i still remember the old days when devs optimized for PC. Not quite sure skyrim is the poster child for this tough, as it was unplayable in one console and even in the other the experience was totally different from the PC game.

But yeah, even next gen the consoles will be the standard, until a big event occurs (like a console crash, or the successful launch of a steam linux dedicated PC) the computer will be an afterthought for most devs. As for it making no sense, BS, this few years has been amazing for PC exclusive titles and the companies that have launched them have racked with quite the green.