Jimquisition: Why PC Gaming Gets Away With It

[Jimothy Sterling]

You can also start Steam Offline, unless you need a multiplayer game, it won't require to be connected, so its DRM is not as orwellian as most people like to accuse.

 

[Tanakh]

1) You don't own the game. You NEED Steam in order to play. Internet/Steam/Ban hammer comes down, you can't play anymore. Not to mention that my account is Australian, so no, the sales don't appeal near as much. GOG still shuns this DRM and ownership model: you pay for it, you download, it's yours.

2) Does anyone else not realize that Steam's DRM is actually WORSE than what XBONE had proposed in a way? So you check in every 24 hours. Right, you're gaming, your internet goes down, bang you have 24 hours to keep playing and hope the outage ends. If you're playing Steam, you're out. But I can switch to offline mode!! WRONG. You need to be online to do that! So all you can do is wait until your router or the internet or whatever is back on. The only thing "offline" mode is good for, is if you are going to travel with a laptop, or moving your desktop to some region (or room) which doesn't have connectivity, or if you can preempt your lack of internet.

Quick notes because your post is full of mistakes/anachronisms:

1 ) You also don't own it with GOG, both steam and gog only give you licenses to use the software, I hope you have that clear. When you get the ban on Steam (99% of the times due cheating on MP), you can still play all your games, it just prevents you to connect MP servers that don't allow cheaters. Finally you can have digital backups of your games on DVDs if you want, tough you will still need steam.

2 ) This is totally wrong. If i remember right it used to be somewhat as you said long ago, but it has been years since you can just go offline whenever you freaking want with zero requirements, or at least I can, haven't asked my friends.

 

[jmarquiso]

Steam does NOT get a free pass. It offers other services to sweeten the deal. It keeps adding them, from Marketplace to Friend's List, to Chat, to UGC to screensnhot sharing, game groups and the rest. Not all of them are good (Game Hubs only got good this year). However, because they offer competitive services, they do really better. I cam use Steam Mobile to keep in touch as well. Hell, I can even install my games across computers without limit.

If you get banned, you get banned from forums, or from VAC (Valve Anti-Cheat) servers. You do not get banned from your games.

That said, Humblebundle and Gog.com do the same- they offer DRM Free as a competitive service. That's *their* competitive edge.

I really hope one of these services figures out a way to do digital lending, returning, and used sales that pleases retailers and publishers. That will shoot past Steam (provided Steam isn't the one to do so - they appear to be heading that way) in terms of competition.

The XB1 - a device I actually like, mind you - did a piss poor job of explaining what they offer in return for having to deal with accounts and all the other stuff. Instead, they presented it as a feature.

And the thing is, I understand where they're coming from and why they did so. But you know, if they marketed it to the HTPC crowd more than the console gaming crowd they'd have faired far better.

 

[Madman123456]

Gog.com has games that you can buy, download and play, no matter how old. Some of the really old games come with a dosbox setup but they'll work fine and smoothly.
Some of the dos emulations aren't very efficient but i'd have to dig through my old computer shit for a few days to build a machine that's slow enough to make that noticeable.

And there are so many old games out there that you could probably skip this entire next generation and never run out of games.

 

[J Tyran]

Such as Origin are just the spawn of satan and should never be allowed to see the light of day. .

Origin is not so bad actually, the myths about it being "spyware" have been completely debunked. It only accesses the files it needs, people saw it accesses the users document file and freaked. Steam does it too, they stash driver and preference profiles and saved games folders and other things in there. People looked for evidence on the way it communicates with its severs.

They found none.

People are spreading myths because of EA hate, EA have even been trying hard with Origin too. 50% sales on games and other special offers, EA still maybe shitty and it leaves a bad taste in my mouth to defend them but they seem to be learning. Dumping online passes and things and slashing prices, the Origin client itself is pretty inoffensive. It does not match Steam in functionality yet but bits and pieces are being added and changes are made all the time.




Take off your EA hate goggles and judge Origin on its own merits.

 

[JohnnyDelRay]

1) You don't own the game. You NEED Steam in order to play. Internet/Steam/Ban hammer comes down, you can't play anymore. Not to mention that my account is Australian, so no, the sales don't appeal near as much. GOG still shuns this DRM and ownership model: you pay for it, you download, it's yours.

2) Does anyone else not realize that Steam's DRM is actually WORSE than what XBONE had proposed in a way? So you check in every 24 hours. Right, you're gaming, your internet goes down, bang you have 24 hours to keep playing and hope the outage ends. If you're playing Steam, you're out. But I can switch to offline mode!! WRONG. You need to be online to do that! So all you can do is wait until your router or the internet or whatever is back on. The only thing "offline" mode is good for, is if you are going to travel with a laptop, or moving your desktop to some region (or room) which doesn't have connectivity, or if you can preempt your lack of internet.

Quick notes because your post is full of mistakes/anachronisms:

1 ) You also don't own it with GOG, both steam and gog only give you licenses to use the software, I hope you have that clear. When you get the ban on Steam (99% of the times due cheating on MP), you can still play all your games, it just prevents you to connect MP servers that don't allow cheaters. Finally you can have digital backups of your games on DVDs if you want, tough you will still need steam.

2 ) This is totally wrong. If i remember right it used to be somewhat as you said long ago, but it has been years since you can just go offline whenever you freaking want with zero requirements, or at least I can, haven't asked my friends.

Ah, thanks for clearing up a few of those things. Maybe since I've used Steam for so long I just got used to some of the bad stuff, to the point of even confusing with Origin.

Yes, I used the wrong wording, you definitely don't "own" in either case, but what I mean is it's yours, once you've downloaded it and keep a copy of it, you just install and play no matter how, I mean this is true DRM-free in any sense of the word. I can, however appreciate why there needs to be at least an initial authentication, to stop people sharing willy nilly. But digital backups that still require the agent to authenticate only remove the hassle of downloading again, which only matters with huge games.

The stance they take on Multiplayer and banning/cheating is very good, if you can still play your games but are banned from cheater-controlled servers that is something I didn't know. I thought that's not the case with origin, so I probly should've researched first. Not a big concern for me though, since I don't think Steam ban you for stupid things like complaining on a forum or whatever.

About the offline mode, well I tried to play Binary Domain two weeks ago and it didn't let me, it actually said I had to be online before I could even fire up the platform. So I'm surprised at the news, I'll go and give it a crack tonight. And the bullshit hoops I had to jump through to get Max Payne 3 to work was ridiculous, though I'm not sure if that was Steam's fault or Rock *'s effing "Social Club" so I'll let that one go for now.

 

[Monsterfurby]

People seem to miss one point over and over again, when it comes to the "companies can't be trusted" argument:

Folks, companies are not nations or causes. You don't rally under their flag or sing their anthem with your hand on your chest. You cannot, well, should not be 'loyal' to a company just because it is said company. Companies exist to make money, but that does not mean that any scheme to make money is justified.

The key thing here is value. Does Valve exist to make money? You bet. Like Microsoft, they are not a charity. At the same time, however, Valve, from Jim's perspective which I agree with, offers bettwe VALUE to the customer for their money. Better service, better communication, better games, better offers.

This is NOT about standing for the cause of 'your' gaming system of choice or whatever company you wish to protect - this is about your individual interests and your perception of value. You pay money for something, that means it should be worth it, to you. Value MUST also be positive - bullying customers into buying an otherwise low-value, high-price product like Microsoft tried to do is NOT a legitimate move because any intelligent customer will see that as a sign of him/her not being taken seriously and draw conclusions from that for the future of said product.

tl;dr1: Nobody asks you to trust companies - in fact, it's better not to, which has been Jim's point over and over again - but to look at value offered versus cost.

tl;dr2: Get out of your fucking trenches, both sides. All you gain through infantile ad-hominem attacks is the creeping realization that you might have wanted to study to pass fourth grade instead of posting in defence of your favourite company/system in such a pointless fashion.

 

[Chaos Marine]

I don't really post on The Escapist, but can I just say that Steam is an absolute rip off when it comes to new games. In fact over in Ireland Gamestop can undercut Steam with a physical retail copy of a PC game by ?20 euro. I never understood the myth about Steam being this bastion of excellence and the main reason to own a PC.

Sure, it has those great sales and they are great, but if I want a game upon release I would have to wait up to a year before it becomes anyway affordable on Steam.

Honestly, with Steam. I really just don't get it. Someone enlighten me, please.

As someone who lives in Ireland, I'd like to point out that; good luck finding any games at all. Most game shops have maybe one, possibly two stand or wall sections of games and the majority of those tend to be older, budget titles.

I am a huge Steam proponent and I agree, the prices are ridiculous at best. Company of Heroes just came out an hour or two ago and it's about eighty euros which is insane. Why do I still recommend Steam though? Wait till Christmas where it will be twenty or thirty euros.

 

[Ishigami]

I don't know.
Jim says I have free choice on the PC but do I really have it?
Aren't all those stores Jim mentioned not simply selling codes for Steam? - Skyrim will use Steam no matter where you buy the code.
All EA games will use Origin no matter where you get the code from.
Why shouldn't it be possible to buy the code for a XO game from one of these stores as well?
Why is it that we assume that the only source for the code will be the XBox Live Market Place?
As for the ?security? isn't this some sort of false feeling? - Sure Valve and Steam is currently doing well and there is no immediate danger that they go down the gutter but people thought so about THQ as well at some point...

GoG.com is nice but as their title indicates they are specialized in selling old games. Unless you are into playing games around 10 years old there is not much else to see.

 

[Rattja]

I liked the idea of consoles, until they stopped being just plug and play.
The moment I had to install/update stuff just like on my PC I just did not see the point anymore.

That aside, here is something I just LOVE about gaming on a PC.

I finish a game, let's say Grimrock, and I like the game and want more. The story is over and I don't want to do it again. A few mouse clicks later I have a bunch of user created maps that are actually really good, with a whole new story and I can keep playing! Thank you steam workshop.

Or another great example is The Secret World, where the gear management system STILL don't work, over a year after it was released. But know what? It does not matter, as other people have made a fix for it that works much better.
Funcom won't fix it, so players do, because they can, they are allowed.

Or let's say a game don't work right, some sort of issue, and the developers can't/won't fix it. If it's a big enough deal, you can bet your ass that there is a fix somewhere on the net.

It's comforting to know that there are people out there that can and will fix stuff, or make fun things for my games, other then the ones who made the game. This is something consoles just can't do because they are as closed as they are.

I like the idea that games are this fun world, where you can have more fun with them other than just playing them as is.

Mods are more than just silly stuff, they can actually fix a broken game, don't underestemate the importance of that.

 

[jmarquiso]

Such as Origin are just the spawn of satan and should never be allowed to see the light of day. .

Origin is not so bad actually, the myths about it being "spyware" have been completely debunked. It only accesses the files it needs, people saw it accesses the users document file and freaked. Steam does it too, they stash driver and preference profiles and saved games folders and other things in there. People looked for evidence on the way it communicates with its severs.

They found none.

People are spreading myths because of EA hate, EA have even been trying hard with Origin too. 50% sales on games and other special offers, EA still maybe shitty and it leaves a bad taste in my mouth to defend them but they seem to be learning. Dumping online passes and things and slashing prices, the Origin client itself is pretty inoffensive. It does not match Steam in functionality yet but bits and pieces are being added and changes are made all the time.




Take off your EA hate goggles and judge Origin on its own merits.

This. Origin is actually very well made and doesn't take as much Memory as Steam. That said, I rarely open it as I have like 2 games on it. I also never see adverts for EA games because of this.

 

[jmarquiso]

I don't know.
Jim says I have free choice on the PC but do I really have it?
Aren't all those stores Jim mentioned not simply selling codes for Steam? - Skyrim will use Steam no matter where you buy the code.
All EA games will use Origin no matter where you get the code from.
Why shouldn't it be possible to buy the code for a XO game from one of these stores as well?
Why is it that we assume that the only source for the code will be the XBox Live Market Place?
As for the ?security? isn't this some sort of false feeling? - Sure Valve and Steam is currently doing well and there is no immediate danger that they go down the gutter but people thought so about THQ as well at some point...

GoG.com is nice but as their title indicates they are specialized in selling old games. Unless you are into playing games around 10 years old there is not much else to see.

Not all of those stores. There are other stores, but a lot (not all) of AAA games tend to have some sort of DRM whether it be Origin, UPlay, or Steam. Steamworks DRM (this is different than the Steam Store, but they are somewhat tied together) has become very popular lately as it's free to the publisher (read: optional to the publisher) and happens to be popular among gamers due to goodwill with the company. So not *all* games, but certainly a lot of AAA games do.

That said, both Gog.com and Humblebundle have offered a DRM free storefront for indie developers, so we're seeing a lot of that as well.

 

[J Tyran]

snipped tinfoil hattery

snipped Origin stuff.

This. Origin is actually very well made and doesn't take as much Memory as Steam. That said, I rarely open it as I have like 2 games on it. I also never see adverts for EA games because of this.

That's one of Origins flaws, EA basically wanted a walled garden for EA products. People are not collecting games to the same level as Steam, they might have Mass Effect or Battlefield 3 and the Sims/Sim Shitty and thats about it. It doesn't encourage people to log in unless they want to play one of the few Origin games they have.

They need more third parties on there, they also need to pull a Ubisoft. EA where pretty dumb, they pulled all their latest games from other digital distribution services. Gamers then could only buy them retail or from Origin, Ubisoft where smart though. They sell their games through Steam and other places still, the difference is you still need to use U-Play to play the game.

That way they pull people in to their service, sounds shitty but its no different to Steamworks really. You buy a game and you have no choice but to use it, it would be better if U-Play was optional and they used honey instead of vinegar to get people to use it. Offer free DLC and cheap games along with other incentives, build it with good value and people will come.

EA could do the same, sell via as many platforms as they can. Then encourage players over to Origin with good deals and some free stuff.

 

[thom_cat_]

Isn't the thing that consoles ARE drm themselves? I mean, there is all this on top, but that's the main crux of it all.

 

[Sushewakka]

I'm still mad that retail PC games just come with Steam codes now. I remember being able to install... hell. Even Fallout 3 on multiple people's computers at once, and now everything is bolted to a single account instead. Fair enough, I guess, there's a demand for Steampowered games, but... yeah. I'm still annoyed about that.

Are you sur you can't just use your steam account elsewhere? I know it's added contrivance but you can still install from disk too with steam so you don't need to download it, so I'm pretty sure you can have it on someone else's computer.

Oh. Actually, I'm thinking about more sharing between multiple people, not just installing on multiple computers.

As long as you habilitate Steam offline mode, you can do this. My cousin and I played side-to-side with my own copy of Terraria. He was on the laptop with steam in offline mode, I was on my desktop computer.
Co-op is also doable, as long as it doesn't use Steam server browser (such as the aforementioned case of Terraria, or Torchlight 2, to cite two examples I've specifically done).

Also, as to why Steam gets away with it, I believe it was already pointed out, but the reasons, among others, are:
GoG
GreenMan Gaming
Game
Humble Store

If you do not like Steam policies, you don't have to buy games from Steam. Maybe the total available catalog is hurt a little, but the option is there.

 

[masticina]

It is hard to disagree with Jim, he is right on the spot. I don't mind steam, steam is awesome! Yes it is DRM yes it has certain software limitations in build I know. Yes it wants to check a few things..

Then again oh steam sales.. last steam sale I bought probably a bit to much games. But they are awesome relative old RPG's. The price just is right..

With PSN, well I bought the GTA IV games.. but only during the PSN Sale of it. Which to be fair came only about 2 months ago.

How long is GTA IV out.. oh yes.. yeah.. eh. Guess what I had bought it on Steam Sales WAY BEFORE.

And steam and good old games are undercutting the used market. Because you can buy "new" games without box and disc or booklet for well cheaper then the local second hand market.

And on consoles, oh geeh we are luck.. we have a Grand Theft Auto Sales.. way after the game is out. How pathetic!

And yes.. I can buy a new laptop new pc.. and just use all my steam games. I just need to activate the pc/laptop that is all.

And yes again .. do you trust Microsoft or Sony to give you those awesomeone Sales. Or like right now do the prices tend to hang around way to high for way to long.

 

[masticina]

Man, do I miss the days when I could just pick up and play on my consoles without all the bullshit.

Yeah, that's why I've moved back to playing on the PC. At least I can get the benefits of PC gaming along with the bullshit, where now with consoles it's the bullshit of PC gaming without any of the benefits.

How I play PS2 games: Put disk in tray, play.

How I play PS3/360 games: Update console, put disk in tray, update game, play.

How I play PC games: Install/download it, update it, faff about to get it to work (not always needed, though), play.

With the PS3 you also get required installations.

And with this PS4/Xbox One we pretty much all will have required installations. Trust me at times it is 20 minutes, so much for coming home and directly playing the game. Forget that one... it more and more looks like PC's. PC's with strong DRM and limitations.. but little of the gains.

Oh where I come from, I own a PS3 and yes a laptop on what I can game. I use both... but I see just how well un-console like the new generation is getting.

Yeah PS2 still had it, put the game in and play, PS3..eh first get patch..then install.. then enter your serial code. This is a pc isn't it.

 

[MasterOfHisOwnDomain]

The modding community on PC is also an astounding factor that consoles can't touch. For instance, even though it was released over a decade ago, I recently found a mod for Age of Empires II that added the equivalent of an entire expansion pack, and which got me back into playing it. Similarly, I found out recently two additional patches for a game I am playing right now, which improved the playing experience. Just small things like that, absolutely free, which you can guarantee will increase the longevity of any game you buy for PC.

 

[DoPo]

I don't know.
Jim says I have free choice on the PC but do I really have it?
Aren't all those stores Jim mentioned not simply selling codes for Steam? - Skyrim will use Steam no matter where you buy the code.
All EA games will use Origin no matter where you get the code from.

Well, some games do only require one and/or the other (EA games come on Origin, Valve games on Steam, some others like Skyrim employ Steamworks still), however that's not the case for all games
- GOG has DRM free games, doesn't interface with anything. At most, there is a GOG client you can use that should make downloading a bit easier, though I haven't tried it - I still use the old fashioned "download and install".
- Green Man Gaming, while it does resell keys for Steam/Origin, also has its own distribution platform called Capsule which is really simplistic in function - downloads games only. But any of the actual games you get from GMG you can trade back in for store credit.
- GameFly also have their own client as well as reselling keys. I haven't used it, though.
- Gamer's Gate should be in the same boat but I believe they resell even less games. Should be mentioned that their client is downloader only.
- Desura are a digital distribution platform.
- the Humble Bundles, while they offer Steam keys with the purchase, are not Steam games, as you can just download them separately, too.

EDIT: I forgot
- Uplay is...well, you can also get games though it and use it as a DD client. Though my (limited) experience with it was that it was a bit crappy. Then again, it might have improved since then.
- Perfect World don't have third party DRM. As far as I know, that is.
- You can buy some games directly from the developer and some times the publisher. Most of the dev-distributed games should come by themselves. I've not tried the publisher distributed games, so I dunno. I'd assume they don't come as a Steam/Origin key, though.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

That said, both Gog.com and Humblebundle have offered a DRM free storefront for indie developers, so we're seeing a lot of that as well.

The best thing about GOG is they don't use a regional pricing scheme anymore.

HEAR THAT, GABE? ONE FUCKING PRICE FOR EVERYONE.

Bah, who am I kidding... Gabe never comes here, he's over at RPS.