Jimquisition: Why PC Gaming Gets Away With It

[LazyAza]

Yep I've always been a PC first console second guy simply because of the freedoms and options I've always had on PC. Most importantly the pricing. Their are literally 100s of games I've bought on pc for less than a quarter of their price on console when the pc version is the better one. Absolute madness.

 

[LetalisK]

I was under the impression there was no used game market for PCs because it was all too easy to just buy a game, copy it, then turn it back in, making it so retailers didn't even want to engage in it. Kind of the same reason return policies at major retailers are fairly strict about opened software. Is it just as easy to buy a 360 or PS3 game, copy it, then turn it in at Gamestop?

Actually, that doesn't make sense. Gamestop would still be getting their money, and probably at a faster rate too. I dunno.

 

[J Tyran]

How the hell do I clean it properly?

Get two pieces of clean kitchen roll, separate them and fold each one into squares. Slightly dampen one of the squares, don't over do it. Make sure its damp but not to wet, then wipe over the console cleaning off any marks or fingerprints. Take the dry piece and then buff off any streaks that are left, it should be perfectly clean.

Don't put chemicals or cleaners on it, they leave residues that are hard to remove. Some will damage the plastic too and can leave it looking slight hazy. Clean water and a clean disposable cloth leaves no residue and have no particles trapped in the cloth to scratch the Vita.

A Microfibre cloth can be useful for regular cleaning, embarrassingly I carry one around with me. I hate the way phones and tablets get covered in fingerprints, regular wiping them over keeps them clean.

 

[80sboy]

LoL

Fanboys can only be fanboys. Especially if it's Xbots.

They're not interested in your rights as a gamer, they don't want to see the bullshit, they just want to defend Microsoft at all cost.

Fact is DRM on PCs is the number one reason that drove me to get a console. I like the option of sharing games, returning them, renting them. I can't do that with PC, and unlike a lot of my friends, I don't like the idea of pirating.

So what? These Xbots are thinking, "Hey if PC gets away with it, why can't Xbone?" Because that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life. It's like asking "Well in Saudi Arabi, the government can have cutting people's hands off as a form of punishment for theft, why can't we?"

You fucking morons! It's not a good thing!

LoL. Okay! Comparing DRMs to that form of punishment is not very fair, but what's accurate about it is it's a form of punishment that should be done away with simply. It's the biggest disadvantages of owning a PC that drives people like me to console. And I'd like for consoles to stay that way. I don't want to be punished on my console as I have been on my PC. I just don't!

 

[Yuuki]

Lemme know when you've got a setup for under $350.

There is a $350 setup from the same guy, look for it.

 

[daxterx2005]

"talking for a minute"
You were talking for over eight minutes, Jim.
XD

 

[leviadragon99]

Well yeah.

Maybe it's because I'm a PC gamer and have little to do with consoles, but I thought much of this episode was obvious too, I did see people bringing the argument up and expected an episode in response but it is still very surprising to me that people had to be told.

 

[Lightknight]

Not to mention that you can put together a gaming PC for the price of a console these days.


So consoles don't even have the lower price point to make them attractive.

Far more up-to-date and powerful build for $500 from the same guy:

It's still not pitching all that good of a gaming rig. The ps4 is shaping up to be a lot more powerful than the $500 system and for $400. The ps4 has found a kind of sweet spot for the price and convenience. Though this guy did pretty darn well on that price point.

 

[Tanakh]

It's still not pitching all that good of a gaming rig. The ps4 is shaping up to be a lot more powerful than the $500 system and for $400. The ps4 has found a kind of sweet spot for the price and convenience. Though this guy did pretty darn well on that price point.

Two things:

- You are comparing two machines that have more than 9 months of difference in hitting the market. Not sure if that even makes any sense.

- While you technically don't own the BIOS for a PC or a PS. On PC you can mod it and have different options, the PS 3 taught us that you only own the metal and plastic in the machine and Sony is willing to take away sale features that they deem useless (linux) and sue modders. At the current technology rate it seems probable that you will be able to build a machine on par with the PS 4 for $500-$550 USD in the US, I would consider that $100 buck difference the price of owning and not leasing the hardware.

That said I might buy a PS4 because fucking Capcom forces the fighting community to stay on consoles.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

Lemme know when you've got a setup for under $350.

Okay by this point you're starting to move the goalposts.


PC gaming is not for everyone; I happily admit that. The best price/performance point is still a few hundred above a console of this coming generation. That being said, I'll never trade the ability to rebuild, repair, improve and even change the fundamental workings of the unit for anything.

Plus, bear in mind that most big gaming PC upgrades, when they do occur, tend to only do 3-4 items:

The Graphics Card
The CPU
The Motherboard
The RAM

Some times, only the Graphics Card needs to be updated and as long as its the same socket (currently PCI-16X) then you don't have to change much else. Memory is cheap so a good option is buy twice as much as you need and unless the new ram sockets happen, they can happily transfer to new motherboard/cpu combos.

Your first PC will always be the most expensive; because then you're buying keyboards, mice, monitors, hard drives, optical drives, the case, the OS and the power supply. However most of these devices are capable of seeing you through many other upgrades so you don't have to purchase them again. I've been using the same keyboard for nearly ten years, and the same monitors for nearly 5 years. The only reason I'm using new hard drives is because I wanted an SSD.

Also, the PC is vastly more versatile than a console. Sure, I've paid a good premium to play games. You know what else I can do? I can edit videos, music or images, I can write my own games, I can get mods, I can video chat with people, or voice chat or go to forums or I can type up a CV while a video plays on one screen, a download is running on another. That's a big one too; is the ability to do passive updates. If Win7 and half my steam library decide it's patch day, I can still do other things while the various downloading bars are filling up. Fuck I can run a business from my gaming rig, I can't do that with PS4 or X1.

If all you want is games, consoles represent the least money spent, and least fuss for maximum return. That is how it should be. A PC is a larger investment, but your capability is greatly expanded.

 

[DoPo]

If I can take my copy of Descent or FX Fighter and make them run decently on my Windows 7, quad core PC, I will admit the superiority of the PC as a platform in terms of preserving past games for future generations. Otherwise, it might have some advantages, but it is not better than most consoles in that regard.

FX Fighter works with DOSBox [http://www.dosbox.com/comp_list.php?showID=1250&letter=F]. As Descent seems to, too [http://www.dosbox.com/comp_list.php?showID=998]. Or you can just grab a source port of it [http://www.dxx-rebirth.com/] that not only works on modern systems but works better. You also have the option of using a virtual machine and running the games in their (more) native environment. Slightly more complicated in that you need to get the OS but still an option.

I can't say how well they'd run but my guess would be - sufficient.

Any chance of a list of all the games shown in that video? I recognised Witcher 2 and Portal 2 but none of the others. Particularly interested to know what that 'dude walking through frozen time mid-explosion' thing was as it looked really cool.

2:10 - Assassin's Creed: Revelations, I believe
2:31-2:44 - Legend of Grimrock
2:54-3:12 - don't know
4:20-4:31 - I think it's Army of Two but I may be mistaken
4:47-5:20 (the frozen times clip) - Quantum Break, I think it's an Xbox One exclusive, though it may be coming to other platforms - at least it was announced at Microsoft's press conference at E3. There is, I believe, a TV show, too and the game is based on it - you might be interested in that.
5:20-5:35 - Castle Crashers
5:35-5:56 - Killer Instinct
6:20-6:40 - Fez

 

[infohippie]

People still order on day 1 and pre-order?!?!

I stopped doing that when Diablo 3, Mass Errect 3 and a few others failed to live up to expectations while simultaneously costing the earth and requiring stupid restrictions...oh just remembered Battlefield 3, stupid web browser launcher tied to origins. So yeah if you want to buy 1st day steam is probably not the best, though a lot of the time you can pre-load so it's ready bang on the day without doing anything.

CD Projekt RED are still around. It's pretty safe to preorder anything of theirs because you know they are going to look after their customers. You can bet your ass I'm going to be preordering The Witcher 3 and Cyberpunk when they are available for preorder. And you (so far) can't go wrong preordering an Elder Scrolls game. But apart from Elder Scrolls and CDPR releases I'm fully with you on the "wait and see" strategy. Dragon Age 2 was the last Bioware game I preordered, and as things currently stand it might also be the last Bioware game I ever buy, too.

 

[Subatomic]

I don't really post on The Escapist, but can I just say that Steam is an absolute rip off when it comes to new games. In fact over in Ireland Gamestop can undercut Steam with a physical retail copy of a PC game by ?20 euro. I never understood the myth about Steam being this bastion of excellence and the main reason to own a PC.

Sure, it has those great sales and they are great, but if I want a game upon release I would have to wait up to a year before it becomes anyway affordable on Steam.

Honestly, with Steam. I really just don't get it. Someone enlighten me, please.

You get taxed by the EU if you use steam for some reason. They don't like steam and are willing to tax the hell of what you buy from them.

Yeah, I don't get why anyone would tax internet purchases either.

Some people try to get past the taxes by having an American sell them for cheap, but steam is legally bound to ban them from the service for tax dodging. A serious crime that can drag Valve into an EU court.

That's nonsense, there is no such thing as "EU-taxes". Each member state levies their own taxes, so by that logic Steam's prices should be different everywhere (which they aren't). Also, the UK is part of the EU too, and generally has much better prices than the countries using the ?. Steam is simply terrible for buying newish AAA games in most of the Euro-zone, as it is undercut by pretty much everyone, including Amazon, retail chains (which still sell a decent amount of PC games on the continent) and other digital stores.

 

[Sonntam]

You're a hypocrite Jim Sterling, and this is the last time I will watch one of your videos.

Because if you actually gave a shit about console gaming and if you actually hold Steam and its ilk with the reverence that you suggest then you would be arguing for the console experience to improve, not to fucking stay the same.

If Microsoft is introducing new steam-like DRM into its console, then argue for the rest of the console experience to be improved to a steam like quality. Argue for better indie games, better prices, better everything.

But all people can do is ***** and complain so this next generation will be the same shit as the last one, 60 dollar games with slightly better graphics.

Congratulations. Your irrational fear has helped to further stagnate what is already a stagnant culture.


Because personally, I like to have a little FAITH in people, in companies, to improve the experience. It's easy to be a naysayer and to ***** and complain for views, but it's hard to actually push for positive change and to keep pushing for it. If Microsoft's plans were not good enough for people to buy the console, then push for them to improve the experience to a point where the plans become irrelevant as opposed to simply doing the unimaginative push for them to go back to status quo.

You are allowed to have as much faith as you want but the reason stuff like this scares people is because companies have already proven that they CAN NOT be trusted with these things besides only about three things in Microsoft's "Future of gaming" would have actually pushed the industry forward the rest would have sent it to the dark ages.

Yes "companies" cannot be trusted and yet Jim is saying trust companies like Valve and Projeck whatever (GOG.com). Again, it's a double standard.

I mean really, one of the reasons that Jim cites for Steam having more value than the consoles is the fucking trophies that Steam ripped off from Xbox Live? Really?

Fact is nothing Xbox was planning would have affected my gaming experience negatively in any way. I might be the exception given the fact I rarely trade in used games, but I wouldn't have noticed a difference.

If for example people had said "no used games? And still 60 dollars? Are you kidding me?" If they had pushed for more incentives to make the console more attractive then hey, maybe Microsoft could have been persuaded to drop first party titles to 50 dollars. Then Playstation could have been persuaded to follow suit. Then there'd be no used games but it wouldn't matter because the base price for games would have been as cheaper or cheaper than used games anyway and everyone would have profited.

Instead, Playstation does pretty much the same thing they did last time. And microsoft is forced to do pretty much the same thing as well.

You seem to imply that if we trust Microsoft it will improve our chances for not being disappointed? That Microsoft will add cheap sales simply out of good cheer, hey, why not?

Microsoft had plenty of time to show new innovative, cool features. So far we have seen family sharing (which is but a glorified demo), facebook connection and Kinect. Neither are very new or very impressive.

You ask people to wait and expect glory from Microsoft, but while Valve and Gog have proven themselves through the years: Microsoft didn't ever offer such low prices as Gog and Steam do. Once and once did Xbox servers go down, while people have learned that Steam servers stay always up.

People do not trust Microsoft, because they fail in every aspect that Steam and Gog excell at.

I love innovation, but given our experience with Microsoft I have troubles imagining what Microsoft could add to Xbox to make it appealing. Even Microsoft itself seems to be hazy on what they could offer to gamers.

 

[Revolutionary]

I get why people love gog, but steam has the sexiest client, everything just works from your desktop, and the selection of games and ease of browsing greatly exceeds other digital distribution systems.

 

[wolfyrik]

I was hoping he would make a video about it. I gave up on explaining it on forums. Now I can just link to this video.

So, basically, "PC is an open platform that needs the added security. Consoles are closed platforms that do not deserve any more security."

I'm still mad that retail PC games just come with Steam codes now. I remember being able to install... hell. Even Fallout 3 on multiple people's computers at once, and now everything is bolted to a single account instead. Fair enough, I guess, there's a demand for Steampowered games, but... yeah. I'm still annoyed about that.

I guess people like me installing Fallout 3 on multiple people's computers at once are sort of what justified that. Again, the openness of the PC platform dictates that gates have to be closed somewhere. The fact that you can just literally copy the files of old PC games over with absolutely no hassle at all really does make DRM a necessity, and since it is all circumvented eventually anyway, it makes making that DRM appealing in some way to buy into even more of a necessity. Steam's greatest achievement is that it has made people WANT games to use Steam; it has made people WANT a DRM-flavoured copy of their games. Huh.

As a supporter of Steam (maybe even a fan), I do agree that Steam exclusivity is bad for us, and that the retail option should remain. Sadly, it seems that publishers won't release a game on the PC without some anti-piracy measure, and Steam seems to be the most consumer-friendly that they'll accept.

Well precisely. I loathe to defend any kind of DRM but if it has to be done, I'd prefer it to be Steam rather than anything else I've seen so far. Such as Origin are just the spawn of satan and should never be allowed to see the light of day. I actually quite like steam, the sales and connectivity are pretty cool, the forums and data validation/repair tools are are damned useful and the community tools are available if you want to play a game along with your friends, even if you're in different parts of the world and on a single player game!

Once again Jim is right, the consoles don't need it and they abso-facking-lutely haven't done anything to deserve or demonstrate that they can be trusted with it. Infact, this xbox debacle only demonstrates to me that, quite the contrary, they absolutely can't be trusted.

PS. Jim I think you need a salute, something to further the theme and to give us an alternative way to demonstrate your all too frequent correct....ness.
You know like the film Cats and Dogs? "Cat's Rule!" type thing....

 

[Subatomic]

The explanation steam gives for wonky prices in Europe is taxation. Might be regional or federal, but in the end it doesn't really matter. The taxes under cut any savings steam gives you.

Its a reason tax dodging in steam is even a thing.

That they say it is so doesn't make it true, especially as it conspiciously mostly applies to AAA games. Case in point: Doublefine had no problem with adjusting the prices for their games on Steam after gamers complained about the unfair conversion rates between $, ? and £, and lots of indie / smaller games have a relatively fair conversion rate. I don't know whether it's Steam, the publishers or the retailers that insist on the $ = ? bullshit, but it certainly has little to do with taxes. (taxes do of course play a small part, as European prices are always including the VAT, in Steam's case most likely at the VAT rate of Ireland as that's where their European holding company is located).

 

[jmarquiso]

The explanation steam gives for wonky prices in Europe is taxation. Might be regional or federal, but in the end it doesn't really matter. The taxes under cut any savings steam gives you.

Its a reason tax dodging in steam is even a thing.

That they say it is so doesn't make it true, especially as it conspiciously mostly applies to AAA games. Case in point: Doublefine had no problem with adjusting the prices for their games on Steam after gamers complained about the unfair conversion rates between $, ? and £, and lots of indie / smaller games have a relatively fair conversion rate. I don't know whether it's Steam, the publishers or the retailers that insist on the $ = ? bullshit, but it certainly has little to do with taxes.

It's not taxes. Steam just doesn't handle multiple currencies very well, though it does seem to be due to publishers. AAA publishers do not adjust their prices for them nearly as much, whereas Indies seem to pay more attention to that.

Retailers seem to have more freedom to do so, probably to compete with Steam and Amazon.

 

[JohnnyDelRay]

Yeah, I must be one of the morons who still don't get it either. I have used Steam since day one (HL2) and it annoyed the shit out of me then, and it annoys me now. And I still don't see why they get a free pass.

1) You don't own the game. You NEED Steam in order to play. Internet/Steam/Ban hammer comes down, you can't play anymore. Not to mention that my account is Australian, so no, the sales don't appeal near as much. GOG still shuns this DRM and ownership model: you pay for it, you download, it's yours.

2) Does anyone else not realize that Steam's DRM is actually WORSE than what XBONE had proposed in a way? So you check in every 24 hours. Right, you're gaming, your internet goes down, bang you have 24 hours to keep playing and hope the outage ends. If you're playing Steam, you're out. But I can switch to offline mode!! WRONG. You need to be online to do that! So all you can do is wait until your router or the internet or whatever is back on. The only thing "offline" mode is good for, is if you are going to travel with a laptop, or moving your desktop to some region (or room) which doesn't have connectivity, or if you can preempt your lack of internet.

Honestly, even for Steam, unless you are going multiplayer and they want to stop you from modding or cheating, that's fine. But otherwise, you should only need one authentication.

 

[Magmarock]

Wait... you can migrate from gaming platform on PC? For FREE?

Since when?

EDIT: And System Shock 2 might not be the best example. Have you tried playing it on a modern OS? Good luck with that...

System Shock 2 on GOG works perfectly fine they patched it so that it would.

As for migration I think you miss heard. He meant meant that if you don't want to deal with Steam/Origin you can use GOG or Gamers Gate instead without paying anything. With consoles you're stuck with whatever provider they give you.