Devil Survivor, man. It's less like a JRPG cliche than something like Dragon Age Origins is.Manji187 said:
JRPGs
- Thread starter Fanfic_warper
- Start date
I love JRPGS but I feel like quoting yahtzee again in his Yakuza 4 review "Boy the japanese are into some wierd shit aren't they?"IWCAS said:
There's actually no denying this. Yeah they are. It's their skeleton in the closet, and the closet door is stuck wide open.
Persona 4 I feel just highlights this and I actually wouldn't reccomend it for a first timer to JRPGs.
If nothing else, I would actually suggest one of the 'Tales of...' series.
Persona is meant more for the veterans of JRPGs who can accept the wierdness and look further into the story for it's symbolism in the story and characters and game mechanics.
Iwata said:
I didn't say absolutely every single Japanese RPG ever made was Anime-like. I said Pretty much. There is a difference. If you don't like it quit crying about it and stay away from it instead of making a big deal about it. It's an amazing game and just because you don't like the art style that doesn't mean that it's bad.
I can accept that. I would still personally recommend them to someone who doesn't like turn based combat. Persona 4 is about as good as it gets when it comes to that. Also 70+ hours is pretty user unfriendly unless you already LOVE JRPGS.Fanfic_warper said:
The problem is, most games in that genre transcend the simple art style. That itself might be enough to turn some people off (I know I have to struggle through it), but the characters themselves tend to fall in line with the art style. It's a whole sub-genre that obeys its own set of rules.IWCAS said:
To put it bluntly the JRPG is stagnating, especially so on the major consoles. They're still very strong on the hand-held market. That's where I think it's headed. JRPGs used to be the yard stick but they have a distinct inability to move forward and when they're forced to I find I never like the results.
Like pretty much everyone else on here has already said, it's a matter of taste. Of the JRPGs you listed, Kingdom Hearts is the only one I have ever played and really liked mainly because unlike other JRPGs, combat was incredibly entertaining (if a bit too easy in KH2) That's usually what turns me off most JRPGs, I don't like not being in direct control of the combat. WRPGs feel more visceral, more intense to me. I just get more of a feeling that I'm really doing something important. Basically, they have more impact for me personally. That may be what turns most of us WRPG players off of JRPGs in the first place, but I'm still open to finding one to be excellent, like Kingdom Hearts.
Personally, its the turn-based combat and the anime-sensibilities of the art style, story and characters that ticks me off. The butt-fuckingly ridiculous outfits and attitudes just makes me unable to suspend my disbelief, which is also a big part of what turns me off these types of games.
Oh and as MightyRabbit said, JRPGs are the eastern equivalent of generic, brown and grey shooters of the west.
Oh and as MightyRabbit said, JRPGs are the eastern equivalent of generic, brown and grey shooters of the west.
There are plenty of reasons why people hate jrpgs and plenty of reasons why people hate wrpgs or puzzle games or rts games or fps or beat em ups e.t.c and those reasons are specific to each person even if a lot of people agree with you, there are two sides to every argument in short there is no right or wrong way to do something.
Saying something like I dont like the turn based combat in Final Fantasy III (just picking random entry) is fine that is youre opinion and you are entitled to hate or like it as you wish.
If you said I dont like Final Fantasy (yeah im picking on the big series here) because they are all turn based and rubbish I would be sceptical thinking really you played and hated them all? Most likely you have played a few (or just one) and disliked it then just unwisely exaggerated youre comment to include them all especially as there is an argument that XII is not turn based and a fair few would be accurately described as ATB based. But still its a personal opinion even if it is born from a little knowledge and made up with ignorance.
But to say jrpgs are bad or hated because they are turn based is rubbish just because you dont like something dosent make it bad or wrong I could say wrpgs are bad because they dont have turn based combat and it would be equally ridiculous and not just because im taring an incredibly diverse genre with the same brush but because im putting my opinion across as fact.
A narrow controlled heavily styilised non customisable game is no better or worse than a game that is open ended customisable and is more grounded style wise. Each game should be taken on its own merits and people should use their own minds to actually think for themselves, unfortunately what tends to happen (actually its almost impossible for it not, to an extent) is people tend to allow themselves to be influenced by others (actually I should say external stimuli but I will use other people as an example) either because they see them as experts or a role model or they like them or whatever and certain ideas or beliefs are shouted about loudly i.e this is right that is wrong then in a few years it will all change i.e that is right this is wrong.
Children do this all the time and a lot of adults are no better ditching something you actually liked because its not in vogue anymore then saying it was shit to try and reinforce to yourself and others that youre still with it and made the right choice. It of course swings the other way liking something because its niche then it gets blown open because lets say it really is good and a lot of the original people move on to try and find another niche to hide in pah this is much better not that mainstream rubbish (that they were into before it became mainstream).
Yeah there is no blanket reason to hate jrpgs or any other game type there is no right or wrong way to make a game mass hate comes from conflicting opinions and/or ignorance lets face it if someone keeps bugging you about something you dont care about and have no opinion on eventually you will probably get pissed off and some of your annoyance would be reflected onto what they are talking about this will be amplified if you dont like the person or you already have a different opinion.
Things change and move on I remember being called a geek because I liked the idea of D&D (even though I never actually got round to playing) now its coming back around. I like FFVII now thats not cool because as everyone knows it was actually rubbish and FFIX is the best wait no thats X no VI no III no sorry IV yeah thats it yeah they went downhill after the PS1/SNES/NES.
Also saying you dont like a game because its not realistic in something i.e art/story/weaponry is ridiculous its called a game for a reason you want realism dont play games look at chess realistic nope how can the castle sorry rook move so fast (or at all) thats a pawn and if it goes all the way it becomes a queen er right and its turn based complete rubbish thought this was supposed to be a war pfft stupid simulator, yeah as long as its true to its own rules its ok a headshot dosent have to kill just because you think it should and it did in your last ten games.
Er think thats it had enough of all this big love and hate crap. Sorry I repeated myself a bit there and its not as coherent as I would like hopefully the internet gods will forgive me.
Saying something like I dont like the turn based combat in Final Fantasy III (just picking random entry) is fine that is youre opinion and you are entitled to hate or like it as you wish.
If you said I dont like Final Fantasy (yeah im picking on the big series here) because they are all turn based and rubbish I would be sceptical thinking really you played and hated them all? Most likely you have played a few (or just one) and disliked it then just unwisely exaggerated youre comment to include them all especially as there is an argument that XII is not turn based and a fair few would be accurately described as ATB based. But still its a personal opinion even if it is born from a little knowledge and made up with ignorance.
But to say jrpgs are bad or hated because they are turn based is rubbish just because you dont like something dosent make it bad or wrong I could say wrpgs are bad because they dont have turn based combat and it would be equally ridiculous and not just because im taring an incredibly diverse genre with the same brush but because im putting my opinion across as fact.
A narrow controlled heavily styilised non customisable game is no better or worse than a game that is open ended customisable and is more grounded style wise. Each game should be taken on its own merits and people should use their own minds to actually think for themselves, unfortunately what tends to happen (actually its almost impossible for it not, to an extent) is people tend to allow themselves to be influenced by others (actually I should say external stimuli but I will use other people as an example) either because they see them as experts or a role model or they like them or whatever and certain ideas or beliefs are shouted about loudly i.e this is right that is wrong then in a few years it will all change i.e that is right this is wrong.
Children do this all the time and a lot of adults are no better ditching something you actually liked because its not in vogue anymore then saying it was shit to try and reinforce to yourself and others that youre still with it and made the right choice. It of course swings the other way liking something because its niche then it gets blown open because lets say it really is good and a lot of the original people move on to try and find another niche to hide in pah this is much better not that mainstream rubbish (that they were into before it became mainstream).
Yeah there is no blanket reason to hate jrpgs or any other game type there is no right or wrong way to make a game mass hate comes from conflicting opinions and/or ignorance lets face it if someone keeps bugging you about something you dont care about and have no opinion on eventually you will probably get pissed off and some of your annoyance would be reflected onto what they are talking about this will be amplified if you dont like the person or you already have a different opinion.
Things change and move on I remember being called a geek because I liked the idea of D&D (even though I never actually got round to playing) now its coming back around. I like FFVII now thats not cool because as everyone knows it was actually rubbish and FFIX is the best wait no thats X no VI no III no sorry IV yeah thats it yeah they went downhill after the PS1/SNES/NES.
Also saying you dont like a game because its not realistic in something i.e art/story/weaponry is ridiculous its called a game for a reason you want realism dont play games look at chess realistic nope how can the castle sorry rook move so fast (or at all) thats a pawn and if it goes all the way it becomes a queen er right and its turn based complete rubbish thought this was supposed to be a war pfft stupid simulator, yeah as long as its true to its own rules its ok a headshot dosent have to kill just because you think it should and it did in your last ten games.
Er think thats it had enough of all this big love and hate crap. Sorry I repeated myself a bit there and its not as coherent as I would like hopefully the internet gods will forgive me.
Me and my bitchin railguns will (eventually) crush your empire for the greater goodIwata said:From your avatar I can see that you're a Tau player. And as such, a space weeaboo. And therefore, untrustworthy on the matter.Ikaruga33 said:
Foul xenos!
And tau arent space weeabos we are space communists
For everyone claiming JPRGs all reuse the same cliches and character archetypes, isn't the same true of WRPGs? Possibly even to a greater degree? All the ones I see (but don't even bother with because they all seem so same-y) are about a lone, muscle-bound male protagonist with mad skills in some form of combat, and typically involve a single female main character that only reallys serves the purpose of sticking a pair of tits in the game.
You are a truly intelligent person.dimensional said:
Once people realize that it's okay for others to have different opinions, even radically different opinions it is rather liberating.
But on topic, I don't care for JRPG's because they have this campy air about them, like the game isn't taking itself seriously but it wants you to. Not sure how to explain it, but I just generally stay away from that genre for that reason. While I know that I'm missing out on some gems that I would probably enjoy, I just don't want to.
Well, coming from a guy who like both JRPGs and WRPGs;
JRPGss tend to play the whole cliched characters i.e. spunky girl who pisses everyone off, quiet one with low self esteem, or a Yamato Nadeshiko, the bold, energetic guy who fucking fails at everything, the tough guy with the soft side that likes to cook/sew/play with birds/etc, the guy who wants to be a big hero, all that. The gameplay is usually turn-based, which I guess turns off some people. The character designs can be stupid as fuck sometimes.
Case in fucking point.
Meanwhile, WRPGs tend to be about prophecies, a demon invading, Tolkien type things, etc. Occasionly playing cliched characters, but mostly the Tolkien type. Realtime combat, based around luck and chance. Because WRPGs are the only games where I consistently never get hits in combat, or do a critical hit of 0 damage to a lizard's balls. That's just me though. The settings can get unoriginal too, but the same could be said of fucking everything.
Then, you get things like DA 2 and Demon's Souls, which cross streams in weird ways. DA 2 was an awful lot like a JRPG and Demon's Souls was an awful lot like a WRPG.
So, there's a lot to hate about both genres.
JRPGss tend to play the whole cliched characters i.e. spunky girl who pisses everyone off, quiet one with low self esteem, or a Yamato Nadeshiko, the bold, energetic guy who fucking fails at everything, the tough guy with the soft side that likes to cook/sew/play with birds/etc, the guy who wants to be a big hero, all that. The gameplay is usually turn-based, which I guess turns off some people. The character designs can be stupid as fuck sometimes.
Case in fucking point.
Meanwhile, WRPGs tend to be about prophecies, a demon invading, Tolkien type things, etc. Occasionly playing cliched characters, but mostly the Tolkien type. Realtime combat, based around luck and chance. Because WRPGs are the only games where I consistently never get hits in combat, or do a critical hit of 0 damage to a lizard's balls. That's just me though. The settings can get unoriginal too, but the same could be said of fucking everything.
Then, you get things like DA 2 and Demon's Souls, which cross streams in weird ways. DA 2 was an awful lot like a JRPG and Demon's Souls was an awful lot like a WRPG.
So, there's a lot to hate about both genres.
You do have a point, WRPGS can get same-y as well; However, what you are describing sounds like an outward observation on Mass Effect. First of all, in almost all wrpgs you can choose male or female, and second of all in ME female characters are not just thrown in too look hot, although every single game category does that including WRPGs and JRPGs, but to show interesting character arc and development. Also, just to be a smart ass, it sounds like your just describing cover artZacktheWolf said:
. I personally can't stand JRPG characters and turn-base combat in any game except for pokemon but that goes into the preference category.
1. Can be true, not gonna really comment on that.Iwata said:
2. Resonance of Fate, Infinite Undiscovery, Tales of ___________, Final Fantasy, and others. Those really don't have the same formula whatsoever.
3. True, but so do western RPG's. Dead serious. How come in every western rpg you have to be some badass saving the world? And no one can really argue this:
Oblivion: 10 minutes in: Oh you have to save the world.
Mass Effect: Hey Shepard! Save the world for us, will ya?
Fallout 3: Oh no. Corruption. Save the area we're in, will ya?
Also, Bethesda said that Western RPG's are more realistic than JRPG's. Okay. Okay. So while I'm roaming around Cyrodil as a Dark Elf doing missions for a Mage's Guild shooting fireballs from my hands and summoning things to do my bidding, I'll remember that this is an accurate representation of real fucking life. And while I'm at it, why don't I call up my buddies from the castle down the road and go kill some pixies and goblins? Thanks Bethesda! You've fallen on your face with that statement since I can twist your words around.
But your points can be valid. My real issue is statement 2 because JRPG's have widely different formulas.