JRPGs

[Manji187]

My biggest problem with JRPGs is that contrary to popular belief the J does not stand for Japanese...but for "Just fakkin go with it aight!"

Reality? Logic? (narrative/ plot-wise)....often you can just forget it.

Some minor (but frequent) examples:

-Most strangers (NPCs) talk to me as if I'm their friend...or at least a good acquaintance...divulging information (often of a personal/ sensitive nature) I did not even ask for. I'm sure it's a mental condition that can be found in the DSM.

-Hardly anybody locks their doors and they sure as hell don't mind me barging in their homes and rummaging through their stuff in search for spoils... Those Elixirs under their beds and in their drawers? Mine for the taking without repercussions...like police.

I am still to see a JRPG that makes sense on all levels...prolly never gonna happen.

 

[Sordak]

i simply do not like them. they are linear the main protagonists are angsty teens with HORRIBLE haircuts and the combat systems are more ofthen than not horrible at best.

 

[Hagi]

While I agree that cliches are well... cliche, this is not a problem that just exists within JRPGs.

The spunky girl: Tali, Sierra, Shale
The lone warrior: Shepard/Garus/Wrex, You, You/Sten
The love interest: Ashely/Liara, Amata, Everyone
The evil overlord: Saren/Sovereign, President Eden/Colonel Autumn, The archdemon

That's Mass Effect, Fallout and Dragon Age, 3 big WRPGs with the same cliche casting.

You're not honestly saying that Tali and Shale are anything like each other at all?
Or that Garus is anything like Sten at all?
Or that Liara and Ashley have carbon copy personalities?
Or that Saren and the archdemon are in any way or form similar?

WRPGs do follow some stereotypes, but those aren't them.... at all....

 

[madwarper]

While I agree that cliches are well... cliche, this is not a problem that just exists within JRPGs.

The spunky girl: Tali, Sierra, Shale
The lone warrior: Shepard/Garus/Wrex, You, You/Sten
The love interest: Ashely/Liara, Amata, Everyone
The evil overlord: Saren/Sovereign, President Eden/Colonel Autumn, The archdemon

That's Mass Effect, Fallout and Dragon Age, 3 big WRPGs with the same cliche casting.

You're not honestly saying that Tali and Shale are anything like each other at all?

They are both female, they are both 'spunky'. Do you disagee?

Or that Garus is anything like Sten at all?

They are both warriors, and prior to joining the team, went it largely alone. Do you disagree?

Or that Liara and Ashley have carbon copy personalities?

They're both love interests. Do you disagree?

Or that Saren and the archdemon are in any way or form similar?

They're both villains. Do you disagree?

WRPGs do follow some stereotypes, but those aren't them.... at all....

My point is that making broad archetypical character definitions, then finding and assigning characters to those categories is not something that is purely in JRPGs, especially when those broad archetypical character definitions describe WRPG characters as well.

Cliche casting is cliche casting. It doesn't matter whether it's done in either the East or the West.

 

[Hagi]

You're not honestly saying that Tali and Shale are anything like each other at all?

They are both female, they are both 'spunky'. Do you disagee?

Or that Garus is anything like Sten at all?

They are both warriors, and prior to joining the team, went it largely alone. Do you disagree?

Or that Liara and Ashley have carbon copy personalities?

They're both love interests. Do you disagree?

Or that Saren and the archdemon are in any way or form similar?

They're both villains. Do you disagree?

WRPGs do follow some stereotypes, but those aren't them.... at all....

My point is that making broad archetypical character definitions, then finding and assigning characters to those categories is not something that is purely in JRPGs, especially when those broad archetypical character definitions describe WRPG characters as well.

Cliche casting is cliche casting. It doesn't matter whether it's done in either the East or the West.

You forgot the cliche that they all have voices. They're also all bipedal, I mean how overused is that!?

Cliches require a bit more then both characters being human. Or both characters wearing clothes. Or both characters being female and heterosexual.

A good 75% of the human population is in one way or another a love interest. A rather large percentage of people above 15 have the option of forming a relationship with another person. They're all love interests. That's not a cliche....

Being a warrior isn't a cliche either. That's a profession. It doesn't carry any personality aspects with it at all. You could be a law enforcing dirty harry who worked in the police force (and not alone) like Garrus. You could also be a professional soldier with an extremely strict code of behaviour from a very class-based society like Sten (who was part of the Kunari army and not alone previously).

Tali is curious, relatively young and has an overall serious attitude. Shale is very old, slightly bitter and rarely serious (with a few exceptions about her past). Some minor parts of their personalities may coincide but that's not what a cliche is.

Being a villain has absolutely nothing to do with cliches. It just means you're the antagonist. You could be a homicidal traitor like Saren. You could also basically be a force of nature like the archdemon who doesn't really even have a personality.

A character cliche means that two characters have extremely similar personalities. Not just one single aspect of their personalities, multiple aspects in such an amount that it composes the majority of their personality.

If you want an example of that in WRPGs then look at Wrex and Canderous Ordo. Both are veteran mercenaries. Both come from a race of brutal race of warriors that respect strength and self-reliance above all. Both have war stories to tell. Both later become leaders of their respective people. Both their people have fallen from being respected and feared by the entire galaxy. Both work to restore the honour and strength of their people when they assume the role of leaders.

Those are very, very alike. The examples you gave? Not at all.

 

[Kahunaburger]

The examples you gave? Not at all.

I'm pretty sure that was the point of his post. It was pointing out the flaws in the "all JRPG characters are the same" argument.

 

[Midnight Crossroads]

It's personal taste taken way too far. A lot of the criticism thrown at JRPGs are the same things with different trappings thrown at WRPGs by fans of JRPGs. They're basically the same thing through different lenses.

 

[Hot Madness]

JRPG's are aimed at a higher class of people, it doesn't surprise me in the slightest to see that peasants don't enjoy them.

Picture related, and confirmed, as 100% fact.

Mmmmmm... Smell that troll bait

 

[Raideh]

Cleaned.

 

[Kahunaburger]

I am still to see a JRPG that makes sense on all levels...prolly never gonna happen.

Devil Survivor, man. It's less like a JRPG cliche than something like Dragon Age Origins is.

 

[Fanfic_warper]

If you don't like JRPG's Play Persona 4. You'll change your mind. If you DO like JRPG's and have never played an SMT title... Well go fucking get one. NOW

I love JRPGS but I feel like quoting yahtzee again in his Yakuza 4 review "Boy the japanese are into some wierd shit aren't they?"

There's actually no denying this. Yeah they are. It's their skeleton in the closet, and the closet door is stuck wide open.

Persona 4 I feel just highlights this and I actually wouldn't reccomend it for a first timer to JRPGs.

If nothing else, I would actually suggest one of the 'Tales of...' series.


Persona is meant more for the veterans of JRPGs who can accept the wierdness and look further into the story for it's symbolism in the story and characters and game mechanics.

 

[IWCAS]

If you don't like JRPG's Play Persona 4. You'll change your mind. If you DO like JRPG's and have never played an SMT title... Well go fucking get one. NOW

No.

I Have saw the art style for that game, And to me it appears animeish, I'm not otuching it with a ten foot pole.

Well you're shit outta luck then. Pretty much all JRPG's are anime-like... Because they're from Japan. It's not really something you're going to find a way around.

I'm by no means trying to be a smart ass, this is an honest question, but would you consider Demons' Souls to be a JRPG? I mean, it seems to fit the description, as in, it's an RPG, from Japan.

Also, I don't remember who said it and I'm too lazy to fall back and check, but Valkyria Chronicles is most definitely NOT a JRPG.

I didn't say absolutely every single Japanese RPG ever made was Anime-like. I said Pretty much. There is a difference. If you don't like it quit crying about it and stay away from it instead of making a big deal about it. It's an amazing game and just because you don't like the art style that doesn't mean that it's bad.

 

[IWCAS]

If you don't like JRPG's Play Persona 4. You'll change your mind. If you DO like JRPG's and have never played an SMT title... Well go fucking get one. NOW

I love JRPGS but I feel like quoting yahtzee again in his Yakuza 4 review "Boy the japanese are into some wierd shit aren't they?"

There's actually no denying this. Yeah they are. It's their skeleton in the closet, and the closet door is stuck wide open.

Persona 4 I feel just highlights this and I actually wouldn't reccomend it for a first timer to JRPGs.

If nothing else, I would actually suggest one of the 'Tales of...' series.


Persona is meant more for the veterans of JRPGs who can accept the wierdness and look further into the story for it's symbolism in the story and characters and game mechanics.

I can accept that. I would still personally recommend them to someone who doesn't like turn based combat. Persona 4 is about as good as it gets when it comes to that. Also 70+ hours is pretty user unfriendly unless you already LOVE JRPGS.

 

[Iwata]

If you don't like JRPG's Play Persona 4. You'll change your mind. If you DO like JRPG's and have never played an SMT title... Well go fucking get one. NOW

No.

I Have saw the art style for that game, And to me it appears animeish, I'm not otuching it with a ten foot pole.

Well you're shit outta luck then. Pretty much all JRPG's are anime-like... Because they're from Japan. It's not really something you're going to find a way around.

I'm by no means trying to be a smart ass, this is an honest question, but would you consider Demons' Souls to be a JRPG? I mean, it seems to fit the description, as in, it's an RPG, from Japan.

Also, I don't remember who said it and I'm too lazy to fall back and check, but Valkyria Chronicles is most definitely NOT a JRPG.

I didn't say absolutely every single Japanese RPG ever made was Anime-like. I said Pretty much. There is a difference. If you don't like it quit crying about it and stay away from it instead of making a big deal about it. It's an amazing game and just because you don't like the art style that doesn't mean that it's bad.

The problem is, most games in that genre transcend the simple art style. That itself might be enough to turn some people off (I know I have to struggle through it), but the characters themselves tend to fall in line with the art style. It's a whole sub-genre that obeys its own set of rules.

 

[Inkidu]

To put it bluntly the JRPG is stagnating, especially so on the major consoles. They're still very strong on the hand-held market. That's where I think it's headed. JRPGs used to be the yard stick but they have a distinct inability to move forward and when they're forced to I find I never like the results.

 

[GartarkMusik]

Like pretty much everyone else on here has already said, it's a matter of taste. Of the JRPGs you listed, Kingdom Hearts is the only one I have ever played and really liked mainly because unlike other JRPGs, combat was incredibly entertaining (if a bit too easy in KH2) That's usually what turns me off most JRPGs, I don't like not being in direct control of the combat. WRPGs feel more visceral, more intense to me. I just get more of a feeling that I'm really doing something important. Basically, they have more impact for me personally. That may be what turns most of us WRPG players off of JRPGs in the first place, but I'm still open to finding one to be excellent, like Kingdom Hearts.

 

[Hyper-space]

Personally, its the turn-based combat and the anime-sensibilities of the art style, story and characters that ticks me off. The butt-fuckingly ridiculous outfits and attitudes just makes me unable to suspend my disbelief, which is also a big part of what turns me off these types of games.

Oh and as MightyRabbit said, JRPGs are the eastern equivalent of generic, brown and grey shooters of the west.

 

[dimensional]

There are plenty of reasons why people hate jrpgs and plenty of reasons why people hate wrpgs or puzzle games or rts games or fps or beat em ups e.t.c and those reasons are specific to each person even if a lot of people agree with you, there are two sides to every argument in short there is no right or wrong way to do something.

Saying something like I dont like the turn based combat in Final Fantasy III (just picking random entry) is fine that is youre opinion and you are entitled to hate or like it as you wish.
If you said I dont like Final Fantasy (yeah im picking on the big series here) because they are all turn based and rubbish I would be sceptical thinking really you played and hated them all? Most likely you have played a few (or just one) and disliked it then just unwisely exaggerated youre comment to include them all especially as there is an argument that XII is not turn based and a fair few would be accurately described as ATB based. But still its a personal opinion even if it is born from a little knowledge and made up with ignorance.
But to say jrpgs are bad or hated because they are turn based is rubbish just because you dont like something dosent make it bad or wrong I could say wrpgs are bad because they dont have turn based combat and it would be equally ridiculous and not just because im taring an incredibly diverse genre with the same brush but because im putting my opinion across as fact.

A narrow controlled heavily styilised non customisable game is no better or worse than a game that is open ended customisable and is more grounded style wise. Each game should be taken on its own merits and people should use their own minds to actually think for themselves, unfortunately what tends to happen (actually its almost impossible for it not, to an extent) is people tend to allow themselves to be influenced by others (actually I should say external stimuli but I will use other people as an example) either because they see them as experts or a role model or they like them or whatever and certain ideas or beliefs are shouted about loudly i.e this is right that is wrong then in a few years it will all change i.e that is right this is wrong.
Children do this all the time and a lot of adults are no better ditching something you actually liked because its not in vogue anymore then saying it was shit to try and reinforce to yourself and others that youre still with it and made the right choice. It of course swings the other way liking something because its niche then it gets blown open because lets say it really is good and a lot of the original people move on to try and find another niche to hide in pah this is much better not that mainstream rubbish (that they were into before it became mainstream).

Yeah there is no blanket reason to hate jrpgs or any other game type there is no right or wrong way to make a game mass hate comes from conflicting opinions and/or ignorance lets face it if someone keeps bugging you about something you dont care about and have no opinion on eventually you will probably get pissed off and some of your annoyance would be reflected onto what they are talking about this will be amplified if you dont like the person or you already have a different opinion.

Things change and move on I remember being called a geek because I liked the idea of D&D (even though I never actually got round to playing) now its coming back around. I like FFVII now thats not cool because as everyone knows it was actually rubbish and FFIX is the best wait no thats X no VI no III no sorry IV yeah thats it yeah they went downhill after the PS1/SNES/NES.

Also saying you dont like a game because its not realistic in something i.e art/story/weaponry is ridiculous its called a game for a reason you want realism dont play games look at chess realistic nope how can the castle sorry rook move so fast (or at all) thats a pawn and if it goes all the way it becomes a queen er right and its turn based complete rubbish thought this was supposed to be a war pfft stupid simulator, yeah as long as its true to its own rules its ok a headshot dosent have to kill just because you think it should and it did in your last ten games.

Er think thats it had enough of all this big love and hate crap. Sorry I repeated myself a bit there and its not as coherent as I would like hopefully the internet gods will forgive me.

 

[Ikaruga33]

JRPG's are traditionally farm-oriented, westerners are impatient.

Building on this:

Every protagonist is Luke Skywalker without the character arc.

Have you played evrey single jrpg out there?

No you havent so you cant say that all characters are like luke skywalker


Go play disgaea. That games protaginists story was more about overcoming racism and predefined judjement

 

[Iwata]

JRPG's are traditionally farm-oriented, westerners are impatient.

Building on this:

Every protagonist is Luke Skywalker without the character arc.

Have you played evrey single jrpg out there?

No you havent so you cant say that all characters are like luke skywalker


Go play disgaea. That games protaginists story was more about overcoming racism and predefined judjement

From your avatar I can see that you're a Tau player. And as such, a space weeaboo. And therefore, untrustworthy on the matter.

Foul xenos!