JRPGs

[Red-Link]

I'm going to throw my lot in with the "simply a matter of taste thing." Yeah, there's a lot of similarities in JRPG's, but it's not like every WRPG is exactly an original work, either. That being said, while I play both, I take a hell of a long time to care at all about WRPG's, whereas I can jump right into most JRPG's.

 

[RYjet911]

I don't like stat games.

I don't like the outfits, generally a problem in more recent JRPGs.

I don't like the stories, most of the time making a mess of the whole 'good conquers evil' theme by adding in a load of character bullshit that normally falls flat thanks to shit voice acting or paragraphs of text.

I don't like how half of them use the menu-based battle systems. I'm playing a game, not using Microsoft Access. Also, when my sword goes through the enemy, he should not have a 20% chance to just dodge it by teleporting backward a few feet. GO IN FOR ANOTHER ATTACK DAMN IT!

I don't like my actions in a game being partially determined by random chance.

I don't like wimpy characters suddenly pulling badass weapons out their ass and fighting like a champion, only to whine about being weak and pathetic a cutscene later.

Thing is, these aren't just problems in JRPGs, there's a lot of Western ones that suffer some or all of the above problems. These are just things I've noticed more often in JRPGs.

They're just themes I hate in general really. Fuck Fallout for making some of my attacks do critical hits when a headshot is likely to KILL whatever the fuck is hit. How do you continue fighting with a crippled head? XD

 

[Hypertion]

what the hell was all that about? i like both WRPGs like ME and JRPGs like FF, and your thing is my grammer?

guess what.... my grammer sucks worse than my spelling and nothing will change that.

as for Fighting games... dont care about them anyways so why are you bringing that up?

 

[xorinite]

I find the last few RPGs from japan I played to be poorly written, with terrible pacing, lacklustre character development and with an abundance of dull busywork. It was final fantasy thirteen.
I also think that there is a problem with a lack of variety, I mean the fact that you can classify them all together as JRPGs lends credit to that.
There is no overarching reason why there must be a definite and clear style to RPGs simply because they are from japan yet there does seem to be an archetype.
Anachronox seems to fit the archetype of a JRPG but being American nobody calls it that. So non-Japanese companies produce these style of games, but also all the other kinds of RPGs.
Perhaps its simply that stuff like FF13 is targeted at 13+ whereas western games are moving towards being entirely aimed at adults. The Witcher 2, Mass Effect 3, both carry 18 rating. Skyrims website marks it at 18, fallout 3 and oblivion carry 17+ (M) ratings..

 

[Uncle_Brainhorn]

what the hell was all that about? i like both WRPGs like ME and JRPGs like FF, and your thing is my grammer?

guess what.... my grammer sucks worse than my spelling and nothing will change that.

You spelled "grammar" wrong, so I wouldn't be too sure about that.

 

[Hypertion]

you gets a fishy stick for that one^^ the irony made me laugh.

 

[jawakiller]

First, they are created by Japanese, not Americans (for the most part). Now while this may seem racist it really is actually a quite logical argument. The games they create not only have to appeal to us but their Japanese customers as well. And its obvious we have different tastes. Plus in Borderlands you get to choose between a bagillion guns... When the fuck do you get those kinds of choices in jrpgs?

Its the characters, I think, that make JRPGs obnoxious (in my opinion). I hate every character (both main and side) in the Final Fantasy series (yes, I've played most of them). I just can't relate to them. Now I've enjoyed many games were I couldn't relate to a character and still liked it but most of those games had at least a slightly likable character. In FF I want the world to be destroyed so I can sleep at night knowing their all dead... Ok, just kidding but still, thats why I hate any JRPGs I play.

 

[Fanfic_warper]

So what I'm understanding so far is that some of the big reasons include the anime art style, the turn based combat and the story telling and characters.

The art issues I can understand. Anime is big in japan, so they capatalize on it by using it and if you don't like anime, you're probably not going to like a lot of JRPGs then.

The turn based combat I guess is a more subtely appreciated system. I like the turn based system because it allows you to think out a strategy for your own way of attacking and you don't have to worry too much about pressing that wrong button in the middle of real time combat where you might crouch instead of block and still get killed. It's not for everyone, but then again not a lot of people have patience for it I guess.

The story telling seems to be a bit an issue witha lot of people, though it seems vague the way some people describe it (then again, I'm only skimming through some of these postings). The word 'stereotype' seems to come up very often, to which I'm a little puzzled at.

 

[IWCAS]

If you don't like JRPG's Play Persona 4. You'll change your mind. If you DO like JRPG's and have never played an SMT title... Well go fucking get one. NOW

 

[TheLoneBeet]

It's personal preference. I'm sort of impartial. I enjoy a few WRPGs and a few JRPGs.

If you're having trouble getting into WRPG games then just stick to what you love. There's nothing wrong with not liking a popular game or genre of games. I personally own absolutely no sports games or driving games. I'm just not into them, and I'm fine with that.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

There is nothing wrong with them. Some WRPGs fans just have a misguided notion that their games are inherently superior to JRPGs. Protip: they aren't.

That works both ways, y'know. In fact I know even MORE JRPG fans that claim all the Japanese ones are miles better.

Seems you know one more person, because that's what RedEyes was saying. That JRPG's are better.

It's that line of reasoning that I took issue with. There is no BETTER in an argument like this. Both genres are plagued with a lot of the same mechanics, cliches and art styles. It's like when someone says they hate Rap music but then go "Oh wait, except for <insert some random rapper, usually MC Chris>"

I love the MegaTen franchise, but I don't like most Final Fantasy games. On that same coin, the Final Fantasy games that I have liked, I've LOVED.

In terms of WRPGs I'm not a big fan of the Elder Scrolls games, but I enjoy Fable. I'm not a big fan of Mass Effect but I enjoyed Fallout 3

Even if I were to take my favorite JRPG and compare it to my favorite WRPG, I wouldn't get anywhere because they'd be two completely different games in their gameplay, characters, story delivery. It'd be like trying to compare a sandwich to a pretzel. Sure both are bread (in this case bread means they're both games) but they're prepared so differently for their audience.

My point was that whether you say "Western RPGs are better than Japanese RPGs" or vice versa. Guess what, you're wrong. Because both are incredibly widespread genres with a lot of stuff to choose from, and I'm willing to bet almost everybody here can name at least one from each that they've liked.

Hell, even Yahtzee said once upon a time he enjoyed Final Fantasy.

...that was my point. Neither are better than the other. But this site has a pretty big anti-JRPG bias, so I phrased the statement like that. In my experience, Bioware fans especially like to attack JRPGs. Probably has to do with that Erickson quote. Of course, I've seen JRPG fans do the same. It is stupid either way.

Edit: Oh, and I'm a big fan of your webcomics.

 

[AyreonMaiden]

I have zero problems with JRPGs. I'm more than okay with them having their own way of doing things. If they wanna have crazy anime characters and overblown themes, go ahead. I can't really think of another genre that has those so honestly, they're still pretty original. There's room for all games. I don't want them to adopt any Western ideals except in terms of using subtlety with their characters and themes.

What is so bad about games like Final Fantasy (except VII, I do see plenty reason to hate on that one), Tales of Symphonia, Disgaea, and Kingdom Hearts?

Now what indeed...

Most Final Fantasies are just very alienating. That's not a problem but fuck FFVIII. The Draw system was just absolute shit, the story blew, the romance blew, and since this was the "love" game that meant that the sole focus was on the shitty central couple and not the other characters. Gave up on that shit upon entering Disc 4.

Tales of Symphonia doesn't age well story-wise. At all. Gameplay-wise it's still amazing but what I thought was a good story full of drama became cheesier, campier, more ridiculous and fanfictionesque the more I sank time into my replaying of it after four years of not touching it. It's the RPG tropes done completely by the book with just about no variation to them, and by extension it really doesn't hold up.

Disgaea's problems extend purely to the DS version. No "Quick Save" mode? really? I know Disgaea prides itself in being hardcore, but no handheld game should go without quicksaving mode. I don't wanna flip the lid on my system and forget about it while the battery runs out. I wanna quick save and turn off.

Kingdom Hearts? Oh where to even begin with Kingdom Hearts.

1) The soul was sucked out of it when they decided to sorely tip the balance between Disney influence and Square tropes. What was once a very simple and clean storyline coupled with the charming melodrama of earlier FF games was GRITTIED UP AND CONVOLUTED TO HELL AND BACK thanks to the demand of insecure little boys who wanted less Disney and anime fangirls who wanted more Cloud and Sephiroth, hence the overabundance of disparate story elements connected by only the flimsiest of justifications, pseudo-intellectual bullcrap "themes", character clones used as plot devices, nonsensical bishies that feel but also don't feel (?), and borderline yaoi. I wouldn't have a problem with the yaoi had it been executed properly. But nope. I could compile all the dialogue and make a shitty Axel/Roxas one-shot out of it with no effort.

2) They demand multiple systems to play multiple side-games that in all honesty, aren't side games at all. You need the sidegames to get the complete story. You can't jump from KH2 to 3 without playing all the shit in between on every game system save the 3DO. And I'd really love to see them try to make the transition easier without this ridiculous request.

 

[Austin Howe]

It's totally subjective, and yeah, my feelings pretty much reflect yours (OP)

 

[Iwata]

If you don't like JRPG's Play Persona 4. You'll change your mind. If you DO like JRPG's and have never played an SMT title... Well go fucking get one. NOW

I did. It actually worked the other way for me. I surprisingly quite enjoyed Persona 3, to the point that I actually bought it twice (once the normal version, and then FES). Even though it suffered from the problems above mentioned regarding JRPG character archetypes, design and clichés, it was a surprisingly good and deep game, that although it didn't really DO anything new, it mixed and mashed several gameplay elements to create an enjoyable whole.

The purchase of Persona 4, however, showed me that Persona 3 was the exception that proved the rule. All that felt new about P3 felt rehashed and tired in P4. It was, to me, a letdown after the brilliant glimmer of hope seen in P3.

I haven't lost ALL hope, though. I've bought Devil Summoner about a year ago, since the concept seemed interesting, but after P4, I'm reluctant to try it.

what the hell was all that about? i like both WRPGs like ME and JRPGs like FF, and your thing is my grammer?

guess what.... my grammer sucks worse than my spelling and nothing will change that.

as for Fighting games... dont care about them anyways so why are you bringing that up?

You mentioned JRPG's favorably compared to others, by comparing them to high literature as opposed to action movies. To me, such a comparison doesn't benefit from being written down in a grammatical disaster.

As for the fighting game example, it was to show the difference between our typical weeboo fanboys over here, and other people. They're annoying in the forcing of their opinions unto others as fact and the rapid-fire dismissal of other peoples' own opinions as ignorance.

All that said, my original post may have come off a tad more aggressive than intended, and I did offer my apologies for the fact. Accept it as such, or don't.

 

[GigaHz]

As someone who started playing WRPGs and JRPGs around roughly the same time (Fallout series and FF6), my biggest complaint with JRPGs is that they haven't really evolved much over time.

The only recent JRPG that I can think of that did make an effort to break out of the stagnating JRPG formula is FF12, and predictably many people hated that game.

There's just something about turn-based combat, anime cliches, overly flashy/gimmicky combat, and bat-shit insane story lines that I find unappealing. They were fine for the SNES-Playstation era but they feel incredibly out of place now.

Also, I really liked Demon Souls, but I'm not sure if that counts as a JRPG. It seems more like a Japanese take on WRPG gameplay so I'm not sure how gamers would define it.

 

[veloper]

Also, I really liked Demon Souls, but I'm not sure if that counts as a JRPG. It seems more like a Japanese take on WRPG gameplay so I'm not sure how gamers would define it.

"Action RPG".

We don't call a RPG a JRPG just because it's from Japan, the game has to play like a JRPG. Party (of 4), turn-based or semi-TB, fixed combat formations, lineair story, random encounters on a world map, etc.
I suppose a JRPG can ditch some of these old characteristics, but not most of them and still be one.


OT: no hate, just apathy.
I might have hated FF13, if I had liked previous installments, but I don't, so I don't care what happens.
I like good SRPGs though and those typically come from Japan also (and are not JRPG, but do share some similarities).

 

[Abbyrose07]

I love Jrpgs but they just get really annoying sometimes. A lot of them are just cliche...with the characters the plots etc...There is almost always that annoying healer main character girl (childhood friend, random princess that the main character meets in the beginning of the game etc.) who is in love with the main protagonist but never shows it. You almost always have to rescue her from some evil person during the game also. Then they meet some other cliche characters...sexy girl, other cool guy since the main character is most likely a "cool guy" character as well, random kid, spunky girl, main characters guy friend, guy who is obsessed with women etc...then they go out and save the world while grinding, doing random quests for people, trekking through endless dungeons/fields, battling bosses etc on the way....the end.

 

[IWCAS]

If you don't like JRPG's Play Persona 4. You'll change your mind. If you DO like JRPG's and have never played an SMT title... Well go fucking get one. NOW

I did. It actually worked the other way for me. I surprisingly quite enjoyed Persona 3, to the point that I actually bought it twice (once the normal version, and then FES). Even though it suffered from the problems above mentioned regarding JRPG character archetypes, design and clichés, it was a surprisingly good and deep game, that although it didn't really DO anything new, it mixed and mashed several gameplay elements to create an enjoyable whole.

The purchase of Persona 4, however, showed me that Persona 3 was the exception that proved the rule. All that felt new about P3 felt rehashed and tired in P4. It was, to me, a letdown after the brilliant glimmer of hope seen in P3.

P3 was more of a challenge. Maybe p4 just bored you. P4's combat was much smoother--coming from someone who sucks at it but can still enjoy it.

 

[Legion IV]

If you don't like JRPG's Play Persona 4. You'll change your mind. If you DO like JRPG's and have never played an SMT title... Well go fucking get one. NOW

All opinion. I thought Persona 4 was just bad. I didn't like half of the characters. The ending to me was absolutely awful and infuriated me to no end.

Sorry for not including details but i still have a soul and i dont want to spoil the game for others.

 

[MarxII]

The trouble is that the Japanese are singularly skillful at writing characters who are absolute pricks, and then lionizing those same to Narnia and back.