Ken Levine: The Future of Gaming Is In the PC

[Eclectic Dreck]

Sounds more like he's being a fanboy, but who knows what the future holds.

That's the argument you going to go with when he has developed games for ever major platform on the market today? It sounds like a pretty informed guy we're talking about. Especially since, you know, he's pretty successful at what he does and all and has no vested interest in any particular device "winning".

Ahahahahahahahaha... good stuff.

What about Nintendo, Capcom, Square Enix, Sony Santa Monica, Naughty Dog, Rockstar, Insomniac, Atlus and Sega? Console developers first. But I guess they don't count because they don't fit into his argument.

This guy is talking out of his ass.

Nintendo, Sony and Sega are console developers themselves. That they develop for their respective consoles is hardly surprising. Capcom was, originally, known as an Arcade developer. Rockstar's first title was a multi-platform release that included the PC (as have many of their subsequent games). Naughty Dog's first game was for the Apple II. They have been owned by Sony for nearly a decade. Of the list provided, only Square Enix, Atlus and Insomniac are even debatably console exclusive and of that list, two are Japanese companies (a market that strongly favors the console over the PC).

His argument is not harmed by the existence of companies that have done well without the PC space either. He simply asserts a preference for the PC and maintains they will always be important because, as the article states:

One of the big draws of the PC is the "low barrier of entry," which lets fledgling developers pursue their ideas without needing any kind of official approval. Most of those ideas are terrible, he said, but sometimes you end up with something like Steam or Minecraft, projects that revolutionize the industry and take it to entirely new, unforeseen places.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for PCs and I assume that there's a whole different system to get your head around when programming for consoles, but aren't Consoles just a whole lot more standardized? When programming for PC games you have to programme for the possibility that people are using different systems, different software, and makes sure it works for a wide market that's variously customized.

When they say "easier" they don't necessarily mean that the act is less difficult or less frustrating. It means that you don't have to ask anyone's permission to make the game. Permission, in this case, generally refers to the pile of money it takes to get the tools to do the job and then publish the game.

As far as difficulty of the task itself, it all depends upon what kind of game is being made and what tools you leverage to make it. One could build a game primarily in Java, in which case, so long as they didn't rely on absolutely cutting edge features of the JRE (or simply included the appropriate update in the installer) they would have little cross platform compatibility issues (this was, after all, the problem Java was created to resolve). Likewise, Flash offers another option to get the game to the masses without having to worry (much) about what sort of hardware or software the user is running.

 

[DP155ToneZone]

We can argue in circles and circles about this.

There is no exclusive "Future Machine" for gaming; it's a conglomerate.

But in truth, the day PC Gaming dies, ALL gaming will die.

 

[Sheinen]

Oh, the old "you have to spend squillans of dollars to be a PC gamer" fallacy. It's complete and utter rot. Sure, the start up cost is higher than your average console, but you don't need to spend $1000 dollars to get an excellent PC, if you can build it yourself, and trust me, that's fairly easy. Points b and c is just wrong, because if you build a decent PC now, you're pretty much set for maxing out the vast majority of games released for at least the next three years, or whenever the new console generation finally starts, whatever comes later. Plus, if you don't mind not maxing everything out, I reckon you can go about a decade on a good machine if you're prepared to fiddle with the settings and/or do a spot of overclocking.

Point c is even more wrong when you consider that PC games tend to start lower in price and fall faster, as anyone who's experienced the Steam (and every other digital distribution service worth its salt) Christmas Sale. Hell, I managed to bag Fallout 3 GotY and Fallout New Vegas for £30.

Except for the whole 'actually it kinda IS that hard' thing...I wouldn't personally know where to start...the box I would guess...?

A lot of people who play games couldn't confidently find, order and then jigsaw together all the parts needed to make a decent Computer. You're like an engineer saying 'you can build your own sports car for hardly anything, it's not that hard!' or Delia Smith saying 'What do you mean you ordered a ready made 3 bird roast with honey glaze? It's easy!' How about a linguistic's expert saying 'Why pay for a Japanese translator? It's not that hard a language to learn!'

The fact is that I don't WANT to spend a lot of time researching components and teaching myself how to piece them together when I could be using that time to play games.

And the money factor IS relevant. You're shooing it away as a fallacy because you're afraid of it, and that's ok, it's nothing to be ashamed of. But let's add it up shall we...(eliminating the 'build your own and keep fiddling with the settings' bull for the reasons stated above.)

XBox 360 Slim: £199.99 new (Source Play.com)
Basic Gaming PC: £499.99...(Source Play.com - some kind of Acer...I assume you can play games on it although it doesn't say that anywhere)
A NEW game on a 360 is £34.99, a new game on a PC is £24.99 (Source: New Vegas @ Play.com). Sales don't count.

That's a £10 difference, which add's up to 30 brand new games before you've paid back the deficit. I don't know about you, but I probably buy around 6 brand new titles a year (1 every 8 weeks) and wait for anything else to come down first. So we're looking at a 5 year return on investment... Do you honestly keep the exact same hardware for more than 5 years?

And that example uses a dirt cheap PC from disreputable sources. The cheapest Alienware (a brand even I know) desktop is £899 (Source: Alienware.com), that would mean you'd need to keep that hardware, without replacing or upgrading anything for 11.6 years before you saw a return.

I'm not calling you wrong, and I'm certainly not trying to dissuade you from PC gaming. It has it's advantages and if you CAN build and maintain a decent system all by yourself then you certainly should. But if you paid attention right at the start and explored it from both sides, you'd come to the same conclusion I did. Consoles = easier and cheaper to PLAY games with, PC = easier and cheaper to MAKE games with.

Also, you called me 'wrong' twice and I'm fairly sure I've just proved that I was right... Twice. I accept apologies in the form of custom made gaming computers and instructions on clocking.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

No set top boxes is where it will be at dear. Its ok if you want to lie to PC gamers to look cool...still.....

 

[Plazmatic]

The answer is very simple: where does games on consoles are made from? PC's !

What's the only platform that delivers Mods for FREE: PC's !

i don't need to go further...

What's the only platform that you can sit on the couch and play..... Consoles.

What's the only platform that can be operated by a monkey...... Consoles.

OP: Wasn't BioShock only on 360?

wow people like you really annoy me, why? Because you are ignorant, you don't know what you are talking about. You can sit on a couch and play on a pc just fine... and you dont need the screen right in front of you either. in fact you can use a controller to play all pc games, it doesn't require much effort, or you could just sit with a mouse and key board in front of you too...

Bioshock was also for the PC as well, and started off that way, in fact Bioshock 2 was for the PC as well..

Btw if something really has to be simple enough for a monkey to use in order for you to play games on, then we have some serious problems with society and sheer lazy-ness. And High school drop outs (or soon to be drop outs) probably shouldn't be playing games, You might want to consider having a supplement for your education or getting a job application to McDonalds instead.

I really hope you get banned for that comment.

Why? Because people like YOU are ignorant, and by that I mean you can't understand sarcasm. I said a monkey could operate the thing for Fuck's sake, if you really couldn't sense the sarcasm, than YOU need a supplement to your intelligence. Now get off your high horse and get over yourself.

wow I really hope you were trolling in that comment.

Why? because there is no sarcasm on the internet, and you fail to understand what sarcasm is, What you did with saying consoles are so easy a monkey could operate them was an exaggeration. The two are totally different and this further re-affirms my point you are a soon to be or already a high school drop out.


If you really want to represent sarcasm in your post, you are going to have to put the tags [sarcasm][/sarcasm]

Dude, shut the hell up.
Just because you don't understand contextual clues doesn't make you you some sort of internet authority. I think that YOU'RE the one who needs to finish High School, jackass.

If you don't want me to respond to you, then simply don't respond to me. Also just because you can't put the right contextual clues in your posts, doesn't mean you can criticize me for not understanding something that can't be taken as sarcasm out side of verbal interaction, with out either the sarcasm tag or using italics. And another thing, there is no need for you to call names here, especially like on as vulgar and personal as what you refer to me at the end of your flame post. There's really no need to get all angry about your mistake.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

Except for the whole 'actually it kinda IS that hard' thing...I wouldn't personally know where to start...the box I would guess...?

No, actually it's not hard, people simply allow themselves to be overwhelmed by the unknown. It's not mine or anyone elses problem that people don't take the time to research this information. That having been said, sometimes it's simply not something people are interested in learning.

A lot of people who play games couldn't confidently find, order and then jigsaw together all the parts needed to make a decent Computer. You're like an engineer saying 'you can build your own sports car for hardly anything, it's not that hard!' or Delia Smith saying 'What do you mean you ordered a ready made 3 bird roast with honey glaze? It's easy!' How about a linguistic's expert saying 'Why pay for a Japanese translator? It's not that hard a language to learn!'

Speak to your own demographic, every gamer I know personally has built their own PC. And quite a few I've met online, have also done the same.

The fact is that I don't WANT to spend a lot of time researching components and teaching myself how to piece them together when I could be using that time to play games.

Now that's fair, and as I said, some people just aren't interested in learning, however, that doesn't mean it's difficult.

And the money factor IS relevant. You're shooing it away as a fallacy because you're afraid of it, and that's ok, it's nothing to be ashamed of. But let's add it up shall we...(eliminating the 'build your own and keep fiddling with the settings' bull for the reasons stated above.)

The money factor is pretty simple, and it entirely depends on the situation. However, in my case, there's been at least 1 PC in my house for the past 2 decades. The same PC can be upgraded, quite easily (yes, it requires reading a bit), for the same amount as you would spend on a console. One factor you forgot to add in, is the cost of the TV to play your games on. Which tips the scale drastically in PC's favor. Bottom line, you really can keep your PC competitive for as much or as little you spend on consoles. And will undoubtedly get a better performance.

In the end it simply comes down to preference, however, this article has nothing to do with whether you do, or don't build your own PC's. This is entirely about ease of developer access to SDK's (software development kits), which cost money (over a thousand dollars) on PS3 and 360. The same cannot be said for PC, which allows anyone, for free, to simply dive right in and build whatever game they desire. It can be huge, it can be tiny, the end result is less upfront costs for a developer, and more profit (not having to pay royalties to Sony/MS/Nintendo) on the back end.

And that example uses a dirt cheap PC from disreputable sources. The cheapest Alienware (a brand even I know) desktop is £899 (Source: Alienware.com), that would mean you'd need to keep that hardware, without replacing or upgrading anything for 11.6 years before you saw a return.

Alienware is garbage, that's your first mistake, Maximum PC and other very reputable PC magazines often have full-page spreads for Alienware PC's but a tiny disclaimer that states and I'm paraphrasing 'every other PC we test is better and more cost effective'.

No set top boxes is where it will be at dear. Its ok if you want to lie to PC gamers to look cool...still.....

Lie? Are you reading the same article? Do you even have any idea what you're talking about? PC's require no licensing or royalty payments to produce games for, which allows anyone, big or small, to create a game without having to fork over money JUST to produce a game for it.

Lie=blunderbuss,he tends to over state what he says tho unlike me he can use grammar .

I am sure steam and what not require licensing fees, but lets look at this from a broader perspective , PC is a niche market mainly because how games are built for it,flash and low resource games are easy to do and fairly easy to distribute. If gaming was built on that foundation then yes the PC would be where things are headed.

The trouble is you have to many hardware specs to sell to and that will make reinventing the PC game market more difficult than consoles, consoles tend to be cheaper and more wide spread as well as easier to use but that is slowly changing to not so much cheaper and only slightly easier to use than steam,ect.

In order for the PC game market to be reinvented the game industry will have to want it for one and will have to come together and agree on standards, if they can just get a better more widely used standard in then with all the tablets,phones and mini pcs out there one can see it working and perhaps we will see a true universal hardware setup for the game industry instead of a proprietary setup which I do think is costing everyone more at the end of the day, but there again it is wide spread and easy to use thus very difficult to get away from.

Yes anyone can make a PC game but not everyone can make money from it and until the big studios change direction we will have a proprietary method of game distribution until all devices are connected to the net at high speeds making the need for consumer owned hardware moot and much like cable you subscribe to whatever the monolithic industry allows to be sold.

 

[George Mooney]

When was this even a debate. PC gaming is the past, present and future of gaming. It's where it started and it's where it never ends.

 

[The Austin]

The answer is very simple: where does games on consoles are made from? PC's !

What's the only platform that delivers Mods for FREE: PC's !

i don't need to go further...

What's the only platform that you can sit on the couch and play..... Consoles.

What's the only platform that can be operated by a monkey...... Consoles.

OP: Wasn't BioShock only on 360?

wow people like you really annoy me, why? Because you are ignorant, you don't know what you are talking about. You can sit on a couch and play on a pc just fine... and you dont need the screen right in front of you either. in fact you can use a controller to play all pc games, it doesn't require much effort, or you could just sit with a mouse and key board in front of you too...

Bioshock was also for the PC as well, and started off that way, in fact Bioshock 2 was for the PC as well..

Btw if something really has to be simple enough for a monkey to use in order for you to play games on, then we have some serious problems with society and sheer lazy-ness. And High school drop outs (or soon to be drop outs) probably shouldn't be playing games, You might want to consider having a supplement for your education or getting a job application to McDonalds instead.

I really hope you get banned for that comment.

Why? Because people like YOU are ignorant, and by that I mean you can't understand sarcasm. I said a monkey could operate the thing for Fuck's sake, if you really couldn't sense the sarcasm, than YOU need a supplement to your intelligence. Now get off your high horse and get over yourself.

wow I really hope you were trolling in that comment.

Why? because there is no sarcasm on the internet, and you fail to understand what sarcasm is, What you did with saying consoles are so easy a monkey could operate them was an exaggeration. The two are totally different and this further re-affirms my point you are a soon to be or already a high school drop out.


If you really want to represent sarcasm in your post, you are going to have to put the tags [sarcasm][/sarcasm]

Dude, shut the hell up.
Just because you don't understand contextual clues doesn't make you you some sort of internet authority. I think that YOU'RE the one who needs to finish High School, jackass.

If you don't want me to respond to you, then simply don't respond to me. Also just because you can't put the right contextual clues in your posts, doesn't mean you can criticize me for not understanding something that can't be taken as sarcasm out side of verbal interaction, with out either the sarcasm tag or using italics. And another thing, there is no need for you to call names here, especially like on as vulgar and personal as what you refer to me at the end of your flame post. There's really no need to get all angry about your mistake.

I find it amusing how you're trying to take the moral high-ground despite the fact that your main and only argument is, and I quote, "you are a soon to be or already a high school drop out."

In the very short conversation we've had it's become incredibly apparent that your either a troll, or some kind of moron.
Take your pick.

 

[DayDark]

The answer is very simple: where does games on consoles are made from? PC's !

What's the only platform that delivers Mods for FREE: PC's !

i don't need to go further...

What's the only platform that you can sit on the couch and play..... Consoles.

What's the only platform that can be operated by a monkey...... Consoles.

OP: Wasn't BioShock only on 360?

wow people like you really annoy me, why? Because you are ignorant, you don't know what you are talking about. You can sit on a couch and play on a pc just fine... and you dont need the screen right in front of you either. in fact you can use a controller to play all pc games, it doesn't require much effort, or you could just sit with a mouse and key board in front of you too...

Bioshock was also for the PC as well, and started off that way, in fact Bioshock 2 was for the PC as well..

Btw if something really has to be simple enough for a monkey to use in order for you to play games on, then we have some serious problems with society and sheer lazy-ness. And High school drop outs (or soon to be drop outs) probably shouldn't be playing games, You might want to consider having a supplement for your education or getting a job application to McDonalds instead.

I really hope you get banned for that comment.

Why? Because people like YOU are ignorant, and by that I mean you can't understand sarcasm. I said a monkey could operate the thing for Fuck's sake, if you really couldn't sense the sarcasm, than YOU need a supplement to your intelligence. Now get off your high horse and get over yourself.

wow I really hope you were trolling in that comment.

Why? because there is no sarcasm on the internet, and you fail to understand what sarcasm is, What you did with saying consoles are so easy a monkey could operate them was an exaggeration. The two are totally different and this further re-affirms my point you are a soon to be or already a high school drop out.


If you really want to represent sarcasm in your post, you are going to have to put the tags [sarcasm][/sarcasm]

Dude, shut the hell up.
Just because you don't understand contextual clues doesn't make you you some sort of internet authority. I think that YOU'RE the one who needs to finish High School, jackass.

If you don't want me to respond to you, then simply don't respond to me. Also just because you can't put the right contextual clues in your posts, doesn't mean you can criticize me for not understanding something that can't be taken as sarcasm out side of verbal interaction, with out either the sarcasm tag or using italics. And another thing, there is no need for you to call names here, especially like on as vulgar and personal as what you refer to me at the end of your flame post. There's really no need to get all angry about your mistake.

This monkey business has got to stop.

As a biology student, I would like to point out that we are apes, and since there is no real difference between monkeys and apes, it will render Austins comment both true and uninsulting.

AronRa will now educate you all on the non-difference between Apes & Monkeys.

 

[Plazmatic]

The answer is very simple: where does games on consoles are made from? PC's !

What's the only platform that delivers Mods for FREE: PC's !

i don't need to go further...

What's the only platform that you can sit on the couch and play..... Consoles.

What's the only platform that can be operated by a monkey...... Consoles.

OP: Wasn't BioShock only on 360?

wow people like you really annoy me, why? Because you are ignorant, you don't know what you are talking about. You can sit on a couch and play on a pc just fine... and you dont need the screen right in front of you either. in fact you can use a controller to play all pc games, it doesn't require much effort, or you could just sit with a mouse and key board in front of you too...

Bioshock was also for the PC as well, and started off that way, in fact Bioshock 2 was for the PC as well..

Btw if something really has to be simple enough for a monkey to use in order for you to play games on, then we have some serious problems with society and sheer lazy-ness. And High school drop outs (or soon to be drop outs) probably shouldn't be playing games, You might want to consider having a supplement for your education or getting a job application to McDonalds instead.

I really hope you get banned for that comment.

Why? Because people like YOU are ignorant, and by that I mean you can't understand sarcasm. I said a monkey could operate the thing for Fuck's sake, if you really couldn't sense the sarcasm, than YOU need a supplement to your intelligence. Now get off your high horse and get over yourself.

wow I really hope you were trolling in that comment.

Why? because there is no sarcasm on the internet, and you fail to understand what sarcasm is, What you did with saying consoles are so easy a monkey could operate them was an exaggeration. The two are totally different and this further re-affirms my point you are a soon to be or already a high school drop out.


If you really want to represent sarcasm in your post, you are going to have to put the tags [sarcasm][/sarcasm]

Dude, shut the hell up.
Just because you don't understand contextual clues doesn't make you you some sort of internet authority. I think that YOU'RE the one who needs to finish High School, jackass.

If you don't want me to respond to you, then simply don't respond to me. Also just because you can't put the right contextual clues in your posts, doesn't mean you can criticize me for not understanding something that can't be taken as sarcasm out side of verbal interaction, with out either the sarcasm tag or using italics. And another thing, there is no need for you to call names here, especially like on as vulgar and personal as what you refer to me at the end of your flame post. There's really no need to get all angry about your mistake.

I find it amusing how you're trying to take the moral high-ground despite the fact that your main and only argument is, and I quote, "you are a soon to be or already a high school drop out."

In the very short conversation we've had it's become incredibly apparent that your either a troll, or some kind of moron.
Take your pick.

I find it amusing that you think I was taking the moral high ground, I was just trying to calm you down like any sane human being would be doing in this situation. You were getting pretty riled up there, typing out obscenities, and flaming other people. Though I suppose this is common of people who can't admit they are wrong, especially about simple obvious things (such as the subject of your rage now). I also find it funny that, while you claim you don't want me to respond to you, and I clearly state how you can stop my responses, yet you refuse to stop responding to me.

 

[The Austin]

The answer is very simple: where does games on consoles are made from? PC's !

What's the only platform that delivers Mods for FREE: PC's !

i don't need to go further...

What's the only platform that you can sit on the couch and play..... Consoles.

What's the only platform that can be operated by a monkey...... Consoles.

OP: Wasn't BioShock only on 360?

wow people like you really annoy me, why? Because you are ignorant, you don't know what you are talking about. You can sit on a couch and play on a pc just fine... and you dont need the screen right in front of you either. in fact you can use a controller to play all pc games, it doesn't require much effort, or you could just sit with a mouse and key board in front of you too...

Bioshock was also for the PC as well, and started off that way, in fact Bioshock 2 was for the PC as well..

Btw if something really has to be simple enough for a monkey to use in order for you to play games on, then we have some serious problems with society and sheer lazy-ness. And High school drop outs (or soon to be drop outs) probably shouldn't be playing games, You might want to consider having a supplement for your education or getting a job application to McDonalds instead.

I really hope you get banned for that comment.

Why? Because people like YOU are ignorant, and by that I mean you can't understand sarcasm. I said a monkey could operate the thing for Fuck's sake, if you really couldn't sense the sarcasm, than YOU need a supplement to your intelligence. Now get off your high horse and get over yourself.

wow I really hope you were trolling in that comment.

Why? because there is no sarcasm on the internet, and you fail to understand what sarcasm is, What you did with saying consoles are so easy a monkey could operate them was an exaggeration. The two are totally different and this further re-affirms my point you are a soon to be or already a high school drop out.


If you really want to represent sarcasm in your post, you are going to have to put the tags [sarcasm][/sarcasm]

Dude, shut the hell up.
Just because you don't understand contextual clues doesn't make you you some sort of internet authority. I think that YOU'RE the one who needs to finish High School, jackass.

If you don't want me to respond to you, then simply don't respond to me. Also just because you can't put the right contextual clues in your posts, doesn't mean you can criticize me for not understanding something that can't be taken as sarcasm out side of verbal interaction, with out either the sarcasm tag or using italics. And another thing, there is no need for you to call names here, especially like on as vulgar and personal as what you refer to me at the end of your flame post. There's really no need to get all angry about your mistake.

I find it amusing how you're trying to take the moral high-ground despite the fact that your main and only argument is, and I quote, "you are a soon to be or already a high school drop out."

In the very short conversation we've had it's become incredibly apparent that your either a troll, or some kind of moron.
Take your pick.

I find it amusing that you think I was taking the moral high ground, I was just trying to calm you down like any sane human being would be doing in this situation. You were getting pretty riled up there, typing out obscenities, and flaming other people. Though I suppose this is common of people who can't admit they are wrong, especially about simple obvious things (such as the subject of your rage now). I also find it funny that, while you claim you don't want me to respond to you, and I clearly state how you can stop my responses, yet you refuse to stop responding to me.

So troll then.

 

[rodeolifant]

Capcom, Square Enix

Capcom? Square Enix? Innovation?


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Thats a good joke.

Heh, I liked Rockstar most in that post; I mean, they've made the same game over and over again.. only starting out on consoles with the last few titles. And Grand Theft Horse being the latest, that was not innovative whatsoever.

Now, I haven't read all of the posts in this thread, so someone probably beat me to this, nevertheless;

When you break down the sole experience of pc gaming vs console gaming, is more then just comparing a controller to a mouse and keyboard. People who play a lot on pc's can get those controller for pc just as easily.

The biggest difference here is that generally, when playing on your xbox, you lie back on the couch, staring at the tv. Basically assuming the same posture as when watching Little House on the Prairie. Sitting behind the pc, and firing up a game, is a different experience. You sit up, and assume basically the same posture as you would when writing your essay for school, or read through the presentation you have to give to the office in the morning. Very much more focused. A developer can anticipate this, and put more effort into the actual game, where he has to focus more on ease-of-use for the less focused player on consoles.

Now, I'm not sure whether pc's really are the future, I mean; games will be where the money is, and if that's consoles, then that's that. I do agree however, that the truly innovative games usually are on the pc first. Need proof?

The whole gaming industry tried to be World of Warcraft, to name something. And these people that made it started out with more games for pc that everyone loved; War/Starcraft, Diablo. And they're not the only ones. How about Half-Life? Morrowind? Dungeon Keeper? Duke Nukem 3d? Or Dune, or better yet, Dune 2 and Command and Conquer? Grand Theft Auto? Those were, in fact the games that defined [core] gaming as we know it today!

It's always been like this. Going all the way back to the grand opening of console gaming - There was Mario as the big name, not even very innovative for the time, but playing to a proven market, proven on the pc . etc [Or well, on the home computer, as I'm not sure they called it a pc back then. I was very little. There was the MSX before that too, of course, which was as much a pc as the Amiga was in it's time] Compare those early console games to say, the Sierra adventures or Pole Position, from the same era; these were, in my opinion a lot more innovative.

It's also the pc games where the loyal enthusiastic communities come from, examples; Bioware still has a lot of people actively discussing Baldur's Gate series on their forums, and by the reputation from those titles, every other they make is an instant hit. Other example; It's only now that the sequel is out, that the Koreans loose interest in Starcraft 1; because they're all hooked to the sequel. Let's not forget about modders that keep old games alive.

If I could choose what to develop for, pc would be it. Almost all the games that really are remembered have been pc games, there is no good reason that would stop.

 

[Callate]

Ahahahahahahahaha... good stuff.

What about Nintendo, Capcom, Square Enix, Sony Santa Monica, Naughty Dog, Rockstar, Insomniac, Atlus and Sega? Console developers first. But I guess they don't count because they don't fit into his argument.

This guy is talking out of his ass.

Not to get involved in a flamewar, but...

Nintendo wasn't a console developer first. It was an arcade developer, a field which is on the brink of extinction, so one we really shouldn't expect to see new cross-platform developers rise out of. And if you want to get really technical, it was a playing-card company before that.

Capcom, Sega, and Atlus all first developed coin-op games for arcades before moving on to consoles.

Square's first games were for the Japanese-exclusive PC-8801 computer. Enix's first games were for the PC.

Naughty Dog's first game as Naughty dog was for the Apple II GS, Commodore Amiga, and MS-DOS (PC). Before that they created three games for the Apple II or Apple II GS as "Jam Software".

Rockstar Games developed the original Grand Theft Auto for the PC before it made it to Playstation and other systems. Before they were Rockstar North, the company was called DMA and made games like Lemmings for platforms like the PC and Amiga.

Sony Santa Monica may have been a console developer first, but its parent company certainly wasn't.

That leaves Insomniac Games... One company, all of sixteen years old.

A little research suggests you haven't exactly made the case that Levine is "talking out of his ass". I really don't see why where good console developers from should be so important to people. It ought to be enough that the console market continues to be healthy and innovative in its own right; I don't see why people feel there's something at stake here that has to be wrested from the PC for the sake of consoles.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

Yes anyone can make a PC game but not everyone can make money from it and until the big studios change direction we will have a proprietary method of game distribution until all devices are connected to the net at high speeds making the need for consumer owned hardware moot and much like cable you subscribe to whatever the monolithic industry allows to be sold.

Who are you to decide who can make money off of what? Last I checked, there were countless games, both tiny and large made by a tiny developers, in some cases only 1 to 2 people. Additionally, the cost of an upfront SDK on console, makes it pretty difficult to just create a game in your leisure time, don't you think? The industry is literally filled with companies that started from nowhere, with a great idea, leveraged it on PC and make a shitload of cash doing so. Now, they've got the capital and ability to push this software and newer ideas to more platforms.

If you think consumer owned hardware is going away, you're really, really fooling yourself. Considering how much that industry makes, how many people they employ etc.. It's been around longer than consoles, and it will be around long after them. What you should be more worried about, is the power PC's have available to them, being shrunk down so far that consoles become irrelevant. Components become smaller and smaller every year, it's bound to happen eventually.

Generally the market decides, and portal might have never taken off if valve didn't back it, then again you have do have 2-4 games out of no where making a tidy sum for every profitable indie game backed by the industry.

The discussion boils down to making a profit and for the most part no one dose that better than the industries top 5-10 companies, sure there's a huge debt incurred being that large but profit tends to pay that off otherwise they would not be in business.

Now yes a small group or one individual can out of no where hit it big profit wise or even sustain growth via being outside the normal channels of the industry yet using them to a degree to stay in profit. The trouble is at the end of the day the indies are going to have to out number the gray suits in either popularity or profit..

But I guess I am thinking in near perfect absolutes... and I suppose this is more about trends and where things are headed for now, but even still at best you will see more stuff on the PC but little to no change in the console part of the industry.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

Ahahahahahahahaha... good stuff.

What about Nintendo, Capcom, Square Enix, Sony Santa Monica, Naughty Dog, Rockstar, Insomniac, Atlus and Sega? Console developers first. But I guess they don't count because they don't fit into his argument.

This guy is talking out of his ass.

Not to get involved in a flamewar, but...

Nintendo wasn't a console developer first. It was an arcade developer, a field which is on the brink of extinction, so one we really shouldn't expect to see new cross-platform developers rise out of. And if you want to get really technical, it was a playing-card company before that.

Capcom, Sega, and Atlus all first developed coin-op games for arcades before moving on to consoles.

Square's first games were for the Japanese-exclusive PC-8801 computer. Enix's first games were for the PC.

Naughty Dog's first game as Naughty dog was for the Apple II GS, Commodore Amiga, and MS-DOS (PC). Before that they created three games for the Apple II or Apple II GS as "Jam Software".

Rockstar Games developed the original Grand Theft Auto for the PC before it made it to Playstation and other systems. Before they were Rockstar North, the company was called DMA and made games like Lemmings for platforms like the PC and Amiga.

Sony Santa Monica may have been a console developer first, but its parent company certainly wasn't.

That leaves Insomniac Games... One company, all of sixteen years old.

A little research suggests you haven't exactly made the case that Levine is "talking out of his ass". I really don't see why where good console developers from should be so important to people. It ought to be enough that the console market continues to be healthy and innovative in its own right; I don't see why people feel there's something at stake here that has to be wrested from the PC for the sake of consoles.

Ya but you forget one thing you didn't have a huge,varied and deep console market then you basically had a niche console market and the larger PC niche market. LOL

You can see the shift in software development in the late 90s and early 00 even up to 03, console made you more money in the short term(cost saving+large limited in variation hardware to sell to) thus why everyone started to chose them over the PC market.

Its not that the PC industry can not make money its that the top 50% or so of the software industry prioritizes crap for it over the PC.

 

[Snownine]

His argument makes sense to me but I think I will always prefer consoles for most of my gaming. Don't get me wrong, I own several PC games and enjoy a number of mmos, but if I could only pick one one or the other, I would have to go with consoles.

 

[Treblaine]

Ahahahahahahahaha... good stuff.

What about Nintendo, Capcom, Square Enix, Sony Santa Monica, Naughty Dog, Rockstar, Insomniac, Atlus and Sega? Console developers first. But I guess they don't count because they don't fit into his argument.

This guy is talking out of his ass.

AHAHAHAHAHA! It's hilarious how you so ignorantly dismiss an industry legend like Ken Levine when you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

Nintendo, Campcom, Atlus and Sega are publishers/producers not developers. We're talking about talent here, not money.

Naughty Dog in fact DID start in PC gaming, years and years ago back on the Apple II with Keef the Thief

Rockstar is a publisher.
I think you mean Rockstar North who made the Grand Theft Auto series, they started out known as "DMA Design Ltd." and their first game was "Menace" for PC then later "Lemmings" for the PC and every GTA game they've made they've supported on PC.

Square Enix is a terrible amalgamation company, more publisher than developer. Maybe Square would be a better example: But even Square started on Home computers with "The Death Trap" in 1984 as one of their first games.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Death_Trap

SCE Santa Monica Studio was founded by Sony to make PS2 games, it didn't have a choice and I suspect most the the talent that came to join that company started coding for PC what with how PS2 dev-kits cost about $20'000 per unit at the time.

Really Insomniac is the exception that proves the rule as a third party who skipped PC. Their first game Disruptor for PS1 was a blatant Doom clone (though with it's own unique elements) and would not be here without Doom that started on PC.

So do some research before you ignorantly assume just-coz some developer is big on consoles today (usually because they've been bought up by Sony, Microsoft or a console-centric publisher) that they didn't start on PC and may very well not be here at all were it not for PC gaming.