Ken Levine: The Future of Gaming Is In the PC

[Treblaine]

Good god, I thought Levine was smarter than to put out such an obvious piece of flame-bait. Maybe I was wrong. Just watch as this thread gets filled with Console v.s. PC flame-wars. Any second now... Any second...

You say "flame-bait" he might say "controversial"

Don't let controversy stand in the way of the truth. Keeping good and polite forum debate may mean keeping radical ideas under wraps but that doesn't make the established perception automatically right.

Just because people are too churlish and petty to talk about this doesn't mean there is nothing to talk about.

People get INVESTED in their gaming platforms, it's a bit like fundamental beliefs that way, like politics, economics or religious sects, people seem forced to "pick a side" as they don't see gaming on more-than-one platform as an option. God knows why, a powerful graphics card to upgrade their PC (which most people have to start with) costs about the same as a single console game. Maybe it's a matter of brand loyalty, that Billion Dollar Marketing Budget of Microsoft must be doing something.

I favour PC gaming, but I appreciate console gaming. PC gaming I do see as the pinnacle and the pioneering platform, certainly the most valuable, but platforms like PS3 can innovate in their own way, deliver their own unique but arranged gaming experiences.

I see "PC vs Console" like "Libertarianism vs authoritarianism" (respectively).

Liberty, freedom, no barriers, democratisation through unrestricted commerce has potent benefits in innovation and refinement of games. But at the same time things can just fall apart so easily and getting some things to happen without some central absolute authority is almost impossible. It's emergent, dynamic but fragile. See Ken Levine's Bioshock that has its own take on something like that with Rapture.

Consoles, like Sony with PS3 can be like a benevolent dictatorship, though the users are utterly dependent on the power-holders having good ideas and ideals. I have lived in some countries that are effectively dictatorships where the benevolence of the leader has lead to some great achievements (UAE) yet at the same time it creates countries that - well - you wouldn't want to life your whole life there.

As to Microsoft and Xbox. Well the national anthem of North Korea has a verse where they say there is nothing in the world that they have to envy. Why of course, the rest of the world is hidden from them(!) through propaganda, indoctrination and compartmentalisation.

Does a gamer not deserve the sweat of his own brow?

 

[demoman_chaos]

PC>Consoles. PC games have what console games don't, mods. New Vegas already has tons of mods out and it hasn't been out for very long (though it is basically Fallout 3 again which was basically Oblivion again). Mods add fun and replay value.
Almost all PC games have some sort of Star Wars mods, usually at least a lightsaber of some sort.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

DLC is just an expansion that barely expands gameplay. Mods alter the gameplay thats already there. Or they are just user made expansions.

No i know they exist but i haven't played them heard of them or even cared to learn of them. But most mods i have seen only do very little where as a DLC will usually had a great deal of more gameplay. Also whats SF4?

You have me quite confused right now. The first quote is the furthest quote back in our little back and forward where you say DLC is just an expansion that barely changes gameplay while now you are saying DLC adds more? If you mean play time that makes a lot more sense so I am going with you mean it adds more game time. Also as a side note SF4 is Street Fighter 4.

If the mods you have seen do very little fair enough but there is a plentiful and variety of mods that add much more game time than a lot of true DLC. The Fallout 3 expansion is why DLC is bad. This bad DLC is what should only be an expansion pack but it is sold to you in little pieces to make marginally more money. While Oblivion "DLC" for the most part is an actual expansion pack so we have to be careful not to confuse the two. DLC is just one little bit like weapon skins of Dead Space not a whole expansion pack.

 

[Pebkac]

"As a gamer, I'm a PC. I like the kind of games you can play on it. I like that designers know they have your full attention, so they feel comfortable EXPECTING your full attention," he wrote. "I like the ergonomics of the thing, the mouse and keyboard, the effortless transition from gaming to browsing to typing. I'm an alt-tab kind of guy."

If I'm alt-tabing away from your game to browse the net, then you don't have my full attention.

Also, alt-tabbing from CPU hungry games isn't an "effortless transition". It lags a lot of PCs all to hell and sometimes freezes the game.

What a retard.

 

[Sir Thomas Sean Connery]

Ugh. Ignorant console gamers versus elitist PC gamers. Someone call the fire department.

They both have their place. Just play what you like and leave the rest.

 

[theultimateend]

Ahahahahahahahaha... good stuff.

What about Nintendo, Capcom, Square Enix, Sony Santa Monica, Naughty Dog, Rockstar, Insomniac, Atlus and Sega? Console developers first. But I guess they don't count because they don't fit into his argument.

This guy is talking out of his ass.

Nintendo
Capcom
Square
Probably Enix
Sony
Sega

All bad examples, I don't know about the rest.

Pointing out companies that started when developing on consoles was really cheap is not a good defense when you are trying to point out other folks talking from their colons.

I have plenty of second rate "indie" titles for the nintendo and Atari.

They were terrible, but they were possible. Not many people are making those sort of things for the 360 or PS3 (Wii has a lot of shovelware but I'm not sure whose making all that).

Ugh. Ignorant console gamers versus elitist PC gamers. Someone call the fire department.

They both have their place. Just play what you like and leave the rest.

Which is entirely true but has nothing to do with what he said.

 

[Jennacide]

And this is why Levine is one of the three developers I'd do anything for if they asked. Even sexual servitude. The other two being Warren Spector, and Will Wright.

Ahahahahahahahaha... good stuff.

What about Nintendo, Capcom, Square Enix, Sony Santa Monica, Naughty Dog, Rockstar, Insomniac, Atlus and Sega? Console developers first. But I guess they don't count because they don't fit into his argument.

This guy is talking out of his ass.

AHAHAHAHAHA! It's hilarious how you so ignorantly dismiss an industry legend like Ken Levine when you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

Nintendo, Campcom, Atlus and Sega are publishers/producers not developers. We're talking about talent here, not money.

Just as a point, Nintendo is a horrible example for an entirely different reason. They weren't console developers first, they were a goddam playing card company first. Then pachinko machines. THEN consoles. You are correct on Atlus and Sega always being primarily publishers, but incorrect on Capcom and Nintendo. Nintendo's core franchises were all developed in-house, and Capcom's original point was a developer, that was required to self publish. Look back at the start, when Keiji Inafuna started up Megaman and Breath of Fire, two of the three franchises that have lasted until this generation. (BoF faded recently, but I hear they are finally making another)

 

[thiosk]

You know what else it attracted? A whole lot of shovelware. And now Sony and Microsoft are following that same trend. Why wouldn't they? Realizing that you can produce crap motion-controlled games at half the price and still attract a new audience...they must have been salivating.

I just wanted, as a fairly ardent pc gamer, to hop in here a bit late to the game and say that MOST software for ALL consoles are shovelware. This is not a just-the-wii phenom. Sure, theres been some high profile crap on the wii, but this goes all the way back to the atari 2600 and even earlier preconsoles. Most games suck for most systems, including PC. Go go master of orion 3 and starcontrol 3! /vomits

 

[Bluesclues]

snip

What's the only platform that can be operated by a monkey...... Consoles.

That's an exaggeration, not sarcasm.

What you don't realize is, by saying it was sarcasm implies that you meant to say consoles are not actually simple enough that monkeys can use them, and that they are instead, complex. Presumably, what you actually meant to say is that consoles are so easy to pick up that a monkey could do it. Hence, it is an exaggeration, not sarcasm.

I'd also like to point out, your entire original post, as well as the added edit, are incorrect, grammatically and factually.

To begin with, both sentences use the term platform, which would imply a singular device, but at the end of each sentence, you say consoles, which is plural. Each console is a different platform, regardless of similarities. So your terminology is incorrect as well.

As mentioned to you before, you can play on a PC as easily as you can on a console. You can hook up a console controller to a PC just fine. Also, a PC does not have to be restricted to a 17" screen at a desk. I myself have a PC hooked up in my bedroom to my 36" LCD TV and I play from my couch on lazy days. So your facts are also incorrect.

OP: Wasn't BioShock only on 360?

No, no it wasn't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioshock

Actual research is such a beautiful thing, isn't it?

Okay, I'm sick of you people quoting me...I've also gotten about 5 quotes telling me how thick I am and how superior PC's are.

Well, you aren't exactly helping your case when you continually flame people who try to show you how wrong your ignorant comments are with actual facts.

I've even got one guy who's such a raging PC fanboy he's telling me I that I need to "supplement my education, and go work at McDonalds." These are the people who clearly don't see the sarcasm behind two very bad examples and the phrase "A MONKEY CAN DO IT."

I find the irony and hypocrisy behind these 2 sentences amusing. I'll let you figure out what that is. (Hint: there's a reason you were placed on probation)

But if your going to tell me how I'm and idiot and need to go work at McDonalds, than YOUR the one who needs to learn how to understand "Context clues."

...Really? Where to begin...

1)Proper use of your/you're (not once, but twice)
2)an idiot
3)Proper use of the definition of Context clues*

*Context clues are a device used to help readers understand the meaning of a word or phrase. In other words, it (say it with me now) implies the definition of the word/phrase throught the sentence(s), without blatantly stating it.

McDonalds is open late, if you prefer.

 

[Bluesclues]

i think this guy is 10 years too late.
pc gaming is dead. (except for small casual games and online flash-type gaming, but they don't count)

Ignorant comment is ignorant.

Go troll somewhere else please.

 

[Atmos Duality]

The Future of Gaming is in the PC?

No. It's more accurate to say: "The Future of Gaming is in the Shitter"

Or "The Future of Gaming is in Uncreative Sequel-Exploitation"

 

[Jumpingbean3]

Nnnnno it isn't. While the PC may be able to do things the consoles can't new software and computers are constantly coming out and as developers make use of them you have to be constantly upgrading or switching-out PC models. Most people will probably choose a console because it's just so much more convenient to just buy a new one every few years.

 

[Souplex]

And this is why Levine is one of the three developers I'd do anything for if they asked. Even sexual servitude. The other two being Warren Spector, and Will Wright.

Ahahahahahahahaha... good stuff.

What about Nintendo, Capcom, Square Enix, Sony Santa Monica, Naughty Dog, Rockstar, Insomniac, Atlus and Sega? Console developers first. But I guess they don't count because they don't fit into his argument.

This guy is talking out of his ass.

AHAHAHAHAHA! It's hilarious how you so ignorantly dismiss an industry legend like Ken Levine when you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

Nintendo, Campcom, Atlus and Sega are publishers/producers not developers. We're talking about talent here, not money.

Just as a point, Nintendo is a horrible example for an entirely different reason. They weren't console developers first, they were a goddam playing card company first. Then pachinko machines. THEN consoles. You are correct on Atlus and Sega always being primarily publishers, but incorrect on Capcom and Nintendo. Nintendo's core franchises were all developed in-house, and Capcom's original point was a developer, that was required to self publish. Look back at the start, when Keiji Inafuna started up Megaman and Breath of Fire, two of the three franchises that have lasted until this generation. (BoF faded recently, but I hear they are finally making another)

You forgot aboot Nintendo's "Love Hotel" industry. (Hotels rented by the hour)

 

[The Austin]

snip

What's the only platform that can be operated by a monkey...... Consoles.

That's an exaggeration, not sarcasm.

What you don't realize is, by saying it was sarcasm implies that you meant to say consoles are not actually simple enough that monkeys can use them, and that they are instead, complex. Presumably, what you actually meant to say is that consoles are so easy to pick up that a monkey could do it. Hence, it is an exaggeration, not sarcasm.

I'd also like to point out, your entire original post, as well as the added edit, are incorrect, grammatically and factually.

To begin with, both sentences use the term platform, which would imply a singular device, but at the end of each sentence, you say consoles, which is plural. Each console is a different platform, regardless of similarities. So your terminology is incorrect as well.

As mentioned to you before, you can play on a PC as easily as you can on a console. You can hook up a console controller to a PC just fine. Also, a PC does not have to be restricted to a 17" screen at a desk. I myself have a PC hooked up in my bedroom to my 36" LCD TV and I play from my couch on lazy days. So your facts are also incorrect.

OP: Wasn't BioShock only on 360?

No, no it wasn't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioshock

Actual research is such a beautiful thing, isn't it?

Okay, I'm sick of you people quoting me...I've also gotten about 5 quotes telling me how thick I am and how superior PC's are.

Well, you aren't exactly helping your case when you continually flame people who try to show you how wrong your ignorant comments are with actual facts.

I've even got one guy who's such a raging PC fanboy he's telling me I that I need to "supplement my education, and go work at McDonalds." These are the people who clearly don't see the sarcasm behind two very bad examples and the phrase "A MONKEY CAN DO IT."

I find the irony and hypocrisy behind these 2 sentences amusing. I'll let you figure out what that is. (Hint: there's a reason you were placed on probation)

But if your going to tell me how I'm and idiot and need to go work at McDonalds, than YOUR the one who needs to learn how to understand "Context clues."

...Really? Where to begin...

1)Proper use of your/you're (not once, but twice)
2)an idiot
3)Proper use of the definition of Context clues*

*Context clues are a device used to help readers understand the meaning of a word or phrase. In other words, it (say it with me now) implies the definition of the word/phrase throught the sentence(s), without blatantly stating it.

McDonalds is open late, if you prefer.

Hey, look, I don't care. I already got probation (A rather unjust one, if you ask me) for fighting an obvious troll, and I'm not about to get a suspension for fighting another.

See my edit I made? That should explain the situation. Most people get it, you and the other guy don't. So please go away.

 

[Bluesclues]

snip

What's the only platform that can be operated by a monkey...... Consoles.

That's an exaggeration, not sarcasm.

What you don't realize is, by saying it was sarcasm implies that you meant to say consoles are not actually simple enough that monkeys can use them, and that they are instead, complex. Presumably, what you actually meant to say is that consoles are so easy to pick up that a monkey could do it. Hence, it is an exaggeration, not sarcasm.

I'd also like to point out, your entire original post, as well as the added edit, are incorrect, grammatically and factually.

To begin with, both sentences use the term platform, which would imply a singular device, but at the end of each sentence, you say consoles, which is plural. Each console is a different platform, regardless of similarities. So your terminology is incorrect as well.

As mentioned to you before, you can play on a PC as easily as you can on a console. You can hook up a console controller to a PC just fine. Also, a PC does not have to be restricted to a 17" screen at a desk. I myself have a PC hooked up in my bedroom to my 36" LCD TV and I play from my couch on lazy days. So your facts are also incorrect.

OP: Wasn't BioShock only on 360?

No, no it wasn't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioshock

Actual research is such a beautiful thing, isn't it?

Okay, I'm sick of you people quoting me...I've also gotten about 5 quotes telling me how thick I am and how superior PC's are.

Well, you aren't exactly helping your case when you continually flame people who try to show you how wrong your ignorant comments are with actual facts.

I've even got one guy who's such a raging PC fanboy he's telling me I that I need to "supplement my education, and go work at McDonalds." These are the people who clearly don't see the sarcasm behind two very bad examples and the phrase "A MONKEY CAN DO IT."

I find the irony and hypocrisy behind these 2 sentences amusing. I'll let you figure out what that is. (Hint: there's a reason you were placed on probation)

But if your going to tell me how I'm and idiot and need to go work at McDonalds, than YOUR the one who needs to learn how to understand "Context clues."

...Really? Where to begin...

1)Proper use of your/you're (not once, but twice)
2)an idiot
3)Proper use of the definition of Context clues*

*Context clues are a device used to help readers understand the meaning of a word or phrase. In other words, it (say it with me now) implies the definition of the word/phrase throught the sentence(s), without blatantly stating it.

McDonalds is open late, if you prefer.

Hey, look, I don't care. I already got probation (A rather unjust one, if you ask me) for fighting an obvious troll, and I'm not about to get a suspension for fighting another.

See my edit I made? That should explain the situation. Most people get it, you and the other guy don't. So please go away.

Lol, the only one trolling here is you, hence your probation (if you like we can bump it up to a suspension, there's other posts you could be reported for).

Yes I did see your edit. Did you even read my post? It addresses everything you have wrong IN your edit. Who are the most people, by the way? I don't see anyone saying "o i c" in response, you know why? Because you still have your idea of sarcasm AND context clues backwards.

So yeah, you remember that other thread you were wrong in? Yeah, you're just as wrong in this one as well.

 

[Olikunmissile]

Ahahahahahahahaha... good stuff.

What about Nintendo, Capcom, Square Enix, Sony Santa Monica, Naughty Dog, Rockstar, Insomniac, Atlus and Sega? Console developers first. But I guess they don't count because they don't fit into his argument.

This guy is talking out of his ass.

All their work is either done on PCs or they started there.

 

[The Austin]

snip

What's the only platform that can be operated by a monkey...... Consoles.

That's an exaggeration, not sarcasm.

What you don't realize is, by saying it was sarcasm implies that you meant to say consoles are not actually simple enough that monkeys can use them, and that they are instead, complex. Presumably, what you actually meant to say is that consoles are so easy to pick up that a monkey could do it. Hence, it is an exaggeration, not sarcasm.

I'd also like to point out, your entire original post, as well as the added edit, are incorrect, grammatically and factually.

To begin with, both sentences use the term platform, which would imply a singular device, but at the end of each sentence, you say consoles, which is plural. Each console is a different platform, regardless of similarities. So your terminology is incorrect as well.

As mentioned to you before, you can play on a PC as easily as you can on a console. You can hook up a console controller to a PC just fine. Also, a PC does not have to be restricted to a 17" screen at a desk. I myself have a PC hooked up in my bedroom to my 36" LCD TV and I play from my couch on lazy days. So your facts are also incorrect.

OP: Wasn't BioShock only on 360?

No, no it wasn't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioshock

Actual research is such a beautiful thing, isn't it?

Okay, I'm sick of you people quoting me...I've also gotten about 5 quotes telling me how thick I am and how superior PC's are.

Well, you aren't exactly helping your case when you continually flame people who try to show you how wrong your ignorant comments are with actual facts.

I've even got one guy who's such a raging PC fanboy he's telling me I that I need to "supplement my education, and go work at McDonalds." These are the people who clearly don't see the sarcasm behind two very bad examples and the phrase "A MONKEY CAN DO IT."

I find the irony and hypocrisy behind these 2 sentences amusing. I'll let you figure out what that is. (Hint: there's a reason you were placed on probation)

But if your going to tell me how I'm and idiot and need to go work at McDonalds, than YOUR the one who needs to learn how to understand "Context clues."

...Really? Where to begin...

1)Proper use of your/you're (not once, but twice)
2)an idiot
3)Proper use of the definition of Context clues*

*Context clues are a device used to help readers understand the meaning of a word or phrase. In other words, it (say it with me now) implies the definition of the word/phrase throught the sentence(s), without blatantly stating it.

McDonalds is open late, if you prefer.

Hey, look, I don't care. I already got probation (A rather unjust one, if you ask me) for fighting an obvious troll, and I'm not about to get a suspension for fighting another.

See my edit I made? That should explain the situation. Most people get it, you and the other guy don't. So please go away.

Lol, the only one trolling here is you, hence your probation (if you like we can bump it up to a suspension, there's other posts you could be reported for).

Yes I did see your edit. Did you even read my post? It addresses everything you have wrong IN your edit. Who are the most people, by the way? I don't see anyone saying "o i c" in response, you know why? Because you still have your idea of sarcasm AND context clues backwards.

So yeah, you remember that other thread you were wrong in? Yeah, you're just as wrong in this one as well.

Wow, you're threatening to report my other posts that had absolutely nothing wrong with them? I'm honestly terrified.

And the troll here is not me. Think about it this way:
I have gotten about 20 quotes from that post.
Of those 20, 3 people got all upset about it.
One of those posters didn't get the joke. I explained it to him. Then he understood.
One of those posters got all pissy and decided to start calling me a high school drop out. I called him a jackass and got suspended. Why he didn't get suspended, I have no clue.
And the final poster was just some random guy who jumped into the conversation. He clearly doesn't get it either, and has now made it his personal vendetta to annoy me. This last one is unfortunately you.

When 18 out of the 20 people who quoted me get it, and you don't, it's clearly not me who did something wrong.

And I'm quite interested in this "Other" thread. A link would be fantastic.

 

[RaikuFA]

but arent a majority of pc gamers elitist douches?

 

[nipsen]

"BioShock creator Ken Levine says gamers who want to look into the future of gaming should 'buy a PC,' because it 'will always be the place that drives innovation.'"

..yeah.. let's get that new Direct X thing off the ground now, that we've been stuck with the xbox 360 for a while, shall we..? >_<